On March 1, 2008, 35 Australian Christian ministers apologized for years of antigay defamation and discrimination, which they called “un-Christian.” More ministers would have apologized, but several ministers were threatened into silence by antigay superiors.
Anthony Venn-Brown of Freedom 2 b[e] has just released video of these apologies to gay and gender-variant persons.
Addendum, April 13: Venn-Brown announced via e-mail this evening that the “100 Revs” apology has won an award for Most Outstanding Political Comment from the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.
Tags: anti-gay, Australia, Christianity, defamation, religious leaders, video107 Comments »
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thats a really sad thing for the church!no christian should have to apologize for condeming sin!! homosexuality is a sin…. leviticus 18:22
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 12:16 am
Actually, you can’t really say “homosexuality IS a sin” because the verse you quoted can’t be proven to have come from anything other than the oral traditions of illiterate nomads in the desert.
Unfortunately for you, we have science now, and science wins.
Good try!
(Oh, also, that verse doesn’t say anything about homosexuality. It might blow your mind, and you might think you know how to read, but you don’t write very well, so, I’m just going to go ahead and trust my knowledge of Hebrew society over your monkey scribbling, okay?)
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 12:21 am
evan, that is one of the most ignorant statements made about the bible that i have ever heard! of course your going to say that because you have a vested interest in homosexuality… what does science have to do with sexual behavior anyway?
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 12:26 am
actually, the verse is directly addressing homosexuality……it says “do not practice homosexuality,having sex with another man as with a woman. it is a detestable sin.” new living translation. you should know what your talking about before you claim to know something about it.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 12:34 am
Science has everything to do with sexual behavior because biology and brain chemistry determine sexual orientation.
Don’t know what part you think is ignorant:
1. The fact that you can’t prove that your god “said” anything?
2. The fact that you don’t understand the verse or Hebrew culture well enough to understand that it wasn’t about “homosexuality” as we understand it, in any way, shape or form?
Sorry, dude who doesn’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re.”
I’ve studied this inside and out, up one side and down the other, in the original languages. You, on the other hand, have not mastered your first language.
You have failed.
Goodbye.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 12:46 am
the bible is proof that my god said it! let me guess… you are an athiest homosexual? being able to type and being able to speak my language are different things. i type 12 words a minute…. with 100 mistakes, so if insulting me because of my computer grammer makes you feel better about your “gayness” then, have a flamin ball! so wheres the proof that chemistry and biology determine attraction to children… wich alot of homos and heteros alike expierience?
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 1:03 am
most child molestation cases are of men with boys, how does science explain that?
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 1:08 am
Uh, the Bible proves nothing, dude.
The Bible offers no more proof that your god exists than Curious George offers that the Man in the Yellow Hat is the creator of the world.
Oh, and I don’t need things to “feel better about my gayness,” because I’m a perfectly happy, well adjusted productive human being. Obviously, you are not, since you’re trolling gay blogs in the dead of night.
And no, “most child molestation cases” are NOT of men with boys. If you would like to have an adult discussion about the meaning of the word “pedophilia” and its occurrence as a mental disorder, that’s fine. Because pedophilia, like all rape, does not tend to be about sex as much as it is about power/control. When a person rapes another person, whether it’s a child or an adult, they’re acting out sexually, but they’re doing so to have power over another human being.
In point of FACT, there are FAR more pedophiles who are heterosexual than there are pedophiles who are homosexual. That being said, pedophiles actually do not tend to discriminate between the genders of the children they molest. Perhaps you’re thinking about the fact that there are far more male victims of Catholic priests, but that’s simply because they have access to far more young boys than they do girls.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 2:37 am
i am a perfectly happy straight man thank you. my wife is in favor of me speaking out against gays. funny that you mention the catholic church, and their recent flery of man-boy molestation cases… while at the same time, their acceptance of gays in their church is on the rise as well,especially gay preists. i am a christian… not the same as a catholic. i dont believe that being gay is the worst thing that someone can do, but it is sin….. just like murder, lying, stealing, or adultery. if it wasnt wrong, and if it was completely normal and acceptable… then there wouldnt be any laws against it. many people disagree with that lifestyle who arent even christian at all. thats a fact.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 8:24 am
So, if we criminalized Christianity, would there be nothing wrong with that either? Because you said that if it was normal and acceptable there wouldn’t be any laws against it?
I mean, if that’s the test of whether something is good or not…
Apparently you don’t understand much about the Catholic scandals, or the Catholic Church. Their “acceptance of gay priests” isn’t “on the rise.” These scandals go back DECADES.
Anyway, I’m going to have to say: If you can’t say anything new besides “Bein’ homosexical is a seeeeein,” you’re not going to be welcome commenting here, not because it’s offensive, but because it’s vapid. Part of the unwritten rules of being a commenter on the internet is that you ADD something to the discussion. You’re just annoying.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 9:05 am
“if it wasnt wrong, and if it was completely normal and acceptable… then there wouldnt be any laws against it.”
Does that also mean interracial marriage is still wrong? I mean we had laws on the books forbidding it, why did those laws get repealed I wonder?
Also, is rape still okay? I mean, the Bible (in Deuteronomy 22:28-29) allows you to get away with rape by marrying and paying the girl off with silver, so does that mean rape laws today are wrong?
Comment by nateyouareadumbass — April 8, 2010 @ 9:16 am
nateyouareadumbass, you might not want to hear the real answer to your rape question. I mean, it’s not explicit, but just look at the fundamentalist world: it’s rape culture.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 9:25 am
if your going to quote the bible… you need to know what you are doing. that passage in deuteronomy says nothing about rape. it says if a man has intercourse with a virgin, he must marry her, and its not paying her off… he is paying her father for violating his daughter. rape is never ok! as far as interracial marriage is concerned…i dont believe in “races” first of all. there is only one race in my mind, the human race. color of skin is a non issue for me. i have black friends, hispanic friends,asian friends,my niece is half black. nothing wrong with interracial relationships.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 10:47 am
oh, im flattered that someone picked a screen name based on me!!!
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 10:49 am
Rape is condoned all over the Bible.
“As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.”
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (Not only is rape okay, but a woman isn’t allowed to divorce her rapist!)
“If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.”
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (Stone the rape victim!)
“They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.”
Judges 5:30 (Rape is okay if you win the bitches in war!)
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.”
Exodus 21:7-11 (You can sell your daughter as a sex slave, and she won’t be set free! He can sell her back, though, if she’s not pleasing to him! He can then sell her to his son, but no double dipping! Now she’s your SON’s sex slave!
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 10:55 am
I guess the Bible isn’t a very moral book after all.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 10:56 am
evan, you have miss quoted all of those verses…. deut.22:23-24 talk about a man having intercourse with a married woman, and she dose not stop him, then they both die. if you read the very next verse however, you read that if the man “rapes” the woman, then only he must die,do nothing to the woman. the passage in judges is a song from a woman deborah, and her husband barak. it was a song about men in the city god took for the israelites…. nothing whatsoever to do with rape. your miss representation of the bible is very disturbing. you take the stories out of context, and put your own spin on them to justify your disgusting lifestyle! the bible is a moral and just book… if you read it in context and dont pervert it, like your doing! nice try evan…. your wrong!
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 11:21 am
Uh no.
And dammit, I’m going to give you a lesson:
1. Your: possessive. Implies ownership.
2. You’re: contraction of “You are.”
There is NO excuse for a literate human being who speaks English to screw that up 100% of the time.
And nothing you said about the bible verses disproves the fact that rape is condoned all over the bible, and in those verses.
I guess what you’re saying is that it’s not rape if the woman doesn’t scream?
Pig.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 11:49 am
Nate said “the bible is proof that my god said it!”.
Ridiculous. The bible is no more proof of what your god supposedly said than a book I might write saying “god said this and god said that” would be proof of what your god said”. Any dufus can write a book saying “god said this and god said that” and that is just what your bible is.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 8, 2010 @ 1:06 pm
the bible does not condone rape evan. no matter how you try to twist it into sounding that way, you are just flat out wrong!! 2peter 3:5 describes people like you to a tee! you refuse to accept gods word cuz it chaps your hide,well get some vaseline kids… cuz you are gonna need it!! just cuz you dont believe,doesnt mean its not true. you go by science to live your life. there was a time when science taught that the earth was flat… it taught that the sun and the planets revolved around the earth… and that big objects fall faster than small objects, all of which were proven false. it also says that an unborn child is not a human being;another lie!! science always changes…gods word never does.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 1:47 pm
Don’t all supposedly sacred books (Bible, Qur’ƒÅn, Book of Mormon etc.) claim to be what God said?
I’ve noticed that some Christian fundamentalists also have a supplement to the Bible, viz. their own hotline to God. They say “God told me this” and “God told me that”, and even “God told me TO DO this / that / the other.”
The words of Thomas Paine are pertinent here:
“It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication — after this it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him.”
Comment by William — April 8, 2010 @ 2:01 pm
william,that has nothing to do with this conversation.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 2:06 pm
It has EVERYTHING to do with it.
It’s either god’s word or it isn’t.
You either eat shrimp or you don’t.
Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 8, 2010 @ 2:15 pm
Nate, nothing to do with this conversation? Let’s look at Leviticus 18:22.
“You must not lie with a man as with a woman. This is a hateful thing.”
O.K. Prescinding from the plain fact that I CAN’T lie with a man as with a woman, because he doesn’t have the body parts that a woman has, what have we got here?
We have what the unknown author or authors of the Pentateuch tell us, writing a few hundred years after the alleged events, that Moses — whose historical existence is as problematical as that of King Arthur — said that God told him to tell the people of Israel. Hearsay or what?
Comment by William — April 8, 2010 @ 2:16 pm
funny how someone ALWAYS has to quote Leviticus 18:22
do those that quote The Law follow the rest of the prohibitions in Leviticus?
no adultery [Leviticus 20:10]
no eating of pig [Levitcus 11:7]
no eating of shellfish [Leviticus 11:9]
no sleeping with your wife when she’s having her period [Leviticus 20:18]
but, here’s the clincher: WE ARE DEAD TO THE LAW!
Romans 7:4-6
Galatains 2:19 & 21
Comment by Richard — April 8, 2010 @ 3:04 pm
its not hearsay, the bible was written by god through those men. they didnt come up with it on their own.if thats the case, then everything we know about anything can be construde as hearsay. why trust any book you learn from in school?? how do we know george washington existed? nobody alive today has ever seen or talked to him… all we have is hearsay history books.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 3:12 pm
“its not hearsay, the bible was written by god through those men.”
That explains all the inaccuracies, contradictions, and meanderings.
“how do we know george washington existed? ”
Because there are multiple books, records, paintings, documents, and everything else, all contemporary to and immediately following Mr. W. There is corroboration among the various documents, they were published in different countries, and on and on and on. There is NO such documentation for Jesus, let alone the events of the bible. The Gospels were written 30-40 years AFTER Jesus died. If you knew anything about biblical scholarship, you owyuld know that 95% (at least) of biblical scholars agree to this.
Or as Francis X. collins so charmingly put it, the gospels are “near eye-witness accounts”./ That’s a hole you could drive a large roman chariot through.
Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 8, 2010 @ 3:19 pm
Yes, Richard, you’re right. (Or, in Nate’ language, “your right.”) But we know what the answer is going to be; you can write the script in advance. It’ going to be that the Mosaic Law is divided into civil, ceremonial and moral laws, and that it’ only the civil and ceremonial laws that we’re dead to. This fraudulent argument ignores two facts:
(1) Leviticus neither makes nor allows for any such distinction.
(2) Leviticus repeatedly stresses that ALL the laws are divine commands and that ALL of them are to be observed.
And so it goes on, like a recurring decimal.
Comment by William — April 8, 2010 @ 3:24 pm
richard,alot of those other laws do not aply to us today… you are right on that. however,homosexuality is still mentioned in the new testament,1 corinthians 6:9-10. romans 1:26-27, these passages which still do aply still condemn homosexuality! the verses you are quoting in romans and galations, say that we are dead to the law of man,which is subject to the law of god.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 3:24 pm
my language??? really??? thats all you got is to mock my grammer? ha ha ha… i get it,your…you’re…you all know what i mean.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 3:29 pm
“its [sic] not hearsay, the bible was written by god through those men.”
Yes, and exactly the same claim is made for the Qur’ƒÅn and the Book of Mormon. Similarly, Mary Baker Eddy claimed that her “Science and Health, with Key to the Scriptures” was authorized by Christ himself.
Comment by William — April 8, 2010 @ 3:31 pm
those other books on other religions are wrong too. though, they all have the same views on homosexuality…
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 3:39 pm
Well, it’s nice to know that they can throughly disagree on the very nature of god and his message to the world, and that is OK.
but as long as they can agree that Queers are Bad, they must have some authority.
Your biases are showing, and badly.
Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 8, 2010 @ 3:56 pm
Nate said in comment #20, “science always changes…gods word never does.” Exactly! I think you’re starting to get it! The fact that science changes is part of its strength. And “God’s word” never changing is part of its weakness.
Of course science changes as new evidence is discovered. And the evidence of science’s validity is all around us in the results it has produced. During your remaining lifetime I suggest that you refuse all modern medical treatment/medications in favor of prayer, and then let us know how that works out.
As for religion, it took the Catholic church over 340 years to pardon Galileo for discoveries that they finally had to acknowledge as true. But religion is still fighting a raging battle against science – because deep down they know that scientific discoveries continue to chip away at religious beliefs.
Why do you accept the writings of ignorant superstitious people that lived thousands of years ago while rejecting verifiable discoveries that came much later? And as an aside, if you only trust ignorant superstitious people, then why doesn’t some top Christian official declare Joyce Meyer’s conversations with God to be a new book of the Bible. She’s always on TV relaying all the things God has told her. If God’s conversations with ancient people were good enough for the Bible, why not Joyce Meyer’s?
Obviously, part of your goal here is to convince us the Bible is true, so why don’t you just bring out the smoking-gun-evidence: Compelling documented evidence that God has healed a quadriplegic, for example, might cause me to reconsider my position. As a Christian, that’s part of your responsibility, and so far you’ve failed.
Comment by Richard Rush — April 8, 2010 @ 5:02 pm
Nate said “science always changes…gods word never does.”.
Science changes because it looks at new evidence and revises its assumptions based on what is most likely. Religion ignores contradictory evidence and claims what is obviously false is true. That’s what makes science better than religion.
Nate said “its not hearsay, the bible was written by god through those men.”.
You have no proof of that. Your claim is no different than me writing a book that says “god says this and god says that” and that the book was written by god through me – anyone can write a book and claim it was written by god through others, doesn’t make it true.
William said “Yes, and exactly the same claim is made for the Qur’ƒÅn and the Book of Mormon. Similarly, Mary Baker Eddy claimed that her “Science and Health, with Key to the Scriptures” was authorized by Christ himself.”
Nate responded “those other books on other religions are wrong too.”.
You have no evidence to support your claim that your book is right and those books are wrong. You can claim your book says its right but their books make the same claim – why should we believe your book and not the Koran or book of Mormon? Your book claiming god exists doesn’t prove it anymore than the Harry Potter books saying witchcraft exists prove it does.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 8, 2010 @ 5:09 pm
And god’s word changes constantly. if it didn’t, there owuldn’t be some 60,000 different christian denominations, a number of whom do not believe homosexuality to be a sin.
Jesus: no divorce except for adultery.
All Christians except catholics: divorce is fine for vairous reasons.
Catholics: we’ll call it an annulment, and pretend “what god has joined togther” NEVER happened.
still not convinced.
Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 8, 2010 @ 5:11 pm
Damn, it got hilarious in here:
Nate said:
“the bible does not condone rape evan. no matter how you try to twist it into sounding that way, you are just flat out wrong!! 2peter 3:5 describes people like you to a tee! you refuse to accept gods word cuz it chaps your hide,well get some vaseline kids… cuz you are gonna need it!”
According to some book you’ve been indoctrinated into believing was written by a god? Adorable. And yes, the Bible condones rape. A lot. It also condones slavery. A lot. It’s sad that I know more about your bible than you do, but that’s how it is.
” there was a time when science taught that the earth was flat… it taught that the sun and the planets revolved around the earth… and that big objects fall faster than small objects, all of which were proven false.”
OMFG, you don’t understand how science works at all, do you? Good GOD. Science builds upon science. When they find something to be incorrect, it gets thrown out. For instance, the entire book of Genesis has been found to be incorrect, out of order, and so effing ridiculous that it makes ALL smart people laugh. And you still haven’t proven that “god’s word” is anything more than your imagination. Having an imagination is good, but it’s bad when you think the funny pictures and voices in your head are real, Nate.
Nate said:
“william,that has nothing to do with this conversation.”
Translation: William, I do not understand, and I am ashamed of that, but I feel threatened by the pool of intellectuals I have stepped into, and now I feel attacked because everybody here has three numbers in their IQ and I just have these two.
William said:
“O.K. Prescinding from the plain fact that I CAN’T lie with a man as with a woman, because he doesn’t have the body parts that a woman has, what have we got here?”
The fascinating thing about that text is actually the line that fundamentalists gloss over, because they never study the original languages. The most important phrase in there is “as with a woman.” The reason that it’s said that way, and that there is no similar condemnation against women sleeping with women in that text, is that the early tribes (because it’s important to remember, we’re dealing with uneducated TRIBES of people here) believed that women were inherently inferior. All of the other verses in that chapter condemn screwing your aunt, your niece, etc., your neighbor’s wife, etc., but the reason that’s always given is that if you screw your aunt, you’re sinning against your uncle, because your aunt is HIS property, if you screw your neighbor’s wife, you’re sinning against your male neighbor, who owns her. None of it had anything to do with sex, per se, but about male honor. Also contained in their idea of male honor was the notion that for a man to make himself “as a woman,” (the exact words in 18:22) was below shameful, because he was already superior. So both are condemned because one is MAKING another man “as a woman” and one is allowing himself to be made “as a woman”, and therefore both are impugning each others’ male superiority by “lying with a man as with a woman.”
Ancient scripture is actually fascinating if you study the cultures in which it was written and the original languages. It comes alive as a story, in a way that modern day people don’t often understand.
But for people like Nate, it’s a lot easier to pick your ass and show it to people in the form of re-vomiting everything your pastors have vomited into your brain, without any knowledge of your own.
Again, I say to Nate: You obviously have nothing to contribute to this discussion on ANY intellectual level, so why are you trolling gay blogs? Are you really that lonely? Is this the only way you can spend time with gay people without feeling guilty?
Nate said:
“its not hearsay, the bible was written by god through those men. they didnt come up with it on their own.if thats the case, ”
PROVE IT. Nobody saw this god. Not one person.
“how do we know george washington existed? nobody alive today has ever seen or talked to him”
Because we have firsthand accounts and records of his life. Unlike this “god” you continue to yammer about. There aren’t even corroborating accounts of Jesus Christ, at least not in the way that you people talk about him. He was most likely a composite of a man that actually existed and several mythical figures.
“richard,alot of those other laws do not aply to us today… you are right on that. however,homosexuality is still mentioned in the new testament,1 corinthians 6:9-10. romans 1:26-27, these passages which still do aply still condemn homosexuality!”
Wrong. Here’s why: In order to pretend that the Pauline verses condemn homosexuality, you actually have to lie to yourself and others, or just be too stupid to know what homosexuality actually is. I don’t know whether you’re lying or you’re stupid, but I have a guess.
“my language??? really??? thats all you got is to mock my grammer? ha ha ha… i get it,your…you’re…you all know what i mean.”
Next week we’ll teach you how to spell “grammar.”
“hose other books on other religions are wrong too. though, they all have the same views on homosexuality…”
How do you know they’re wrong? Very curious about the answer to this one.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 6:33 pm
In comment #34 I really meant to say, “_Verifiable_ documented evidence that God has healed an _amputee_, for example, might cause me to reconsider my position.”
Comment by Richard Rush — April 8, 2010 @ 8:16 pm
wow…. way too much to comment on here. i am way out numbered. i still know i am right though! i know what i am talking about here… i just cant respond to every single issue here, not because of my lack of an IQ Evan, but simply because there is too much comming at me from all directions here. glad i could get all of you to jabber about me while i was away though.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 10:57 pm
let me ask of everyone this….. if you dont accept that jesus is who he says he is, and you dont accept the bible as the inspired holy word of the living God, then what do you believe in? where will you go when you die?
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 11:02 pm
Nate, you’re foolish if you think none of us are Christian; you’re foolish again if you think you fully understand any portion of the Bible in the context of its original languages, culture, and religion; and you’re triply foolish if you smugly presume yourself to be saved even as you blithely damn to hell various people because they happen to understand Biblical context and historical and scientific error better than you.
Comment by Michael Airhart — April 8, 2010 @ 11:13 pm
michael, i know that none of you are christian…everyone has clearly stated that they dont acknowledge the bible as truth. context, language, and religion?? religion has nothing to do with the bible. god spoke against religion. christianity is a relationship with god. i am saved by the grace of god. i dont damn to hell anybody…. we as a sinful human race did that ourselves, and its only by Gods grace that we can be saved from that. none of you understand biblical context better than anyone, especially not more than God himself. infact, its people like yourself and evan who are more arrogant than you think i am.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 11:27 pm
you are all arrogant,smug and ignorant. only God can save people like you.
Comment by nate — April 8, 2010 @ 11:32 pm
“let me ask of everyone this….. if you dont accept that jesus is who he says he is, and you dont accept the bible as the inspired holy word of the living God, then what do you believe in? where will you go when you die?”
No one in the history of the world has ever truly known the answer to that question.
By all available evidence, and by observing the way that life works in this world, and by understanding that everything we think of as a “soul” is actually the product of actions in our brains, when the brain stops…we do.
If you’re going purely based on evidence and reason, that’s the most logical conclusion.
Also, dude? Michael is a Christian.
So shut it.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 8, 2010 @ 11:36 pm
you cannot be a christian and think that homosexuality is ok in gods eyes! thats like saying that being a drunk is ok, or an adulterer, or murderer.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:03 am
Millions of Christians know that you have no clue what you’re talking about.
Science knows that you have no clue what you’re talking about.
All credible mental health professionals know that you have no clue what you’re talking about.
I’m sorry, dude. You’ve lost. The Bible wasn’t written in misspelled English, so there’s really no one who trusts you to interpret it.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:04 am
Nate, to get you back on track, you need to step back and consider what’s going on here. These ministers apologized for defamation and discrimination towards gays. Why would you as a Christian be upset or oppose their apology? Do you defend defamation and discrimination as valid actions? If you do, then there are plenty of verses that show that your view is out of line with the Bible you are so quick to toss at others. The reality is that slander and inhospitality are not behaviors that Christians are encouraged to engage in, 20 centuries ago or now. You say it’s about ‘condemning sin’, well I think you and other Christians can state your viewpoint without defaming, destroying and deliberately hurting people who don’t agree with you or share your viewpoint. These ministers obviously came to the same conclusion, so the question now is, why can’t you?
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 12:13 am
homosexuality is nothing but pure, un natural animal lust! if it were normal and natural, and meant to be that way… then there would be no human race today you moron!!! the whole idea of homosexuality is absurd, unsound, ridiculously unreasonable, and stupid!! it does absolutely nothing to benefit the human race, or your precious science.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:13 am
Hahahahahahahahaha, this is getting awesome.
I won’t go into the amazing discoveries geneticists are making on the theory of genetic antagonism, where a gene represents one way when passed to a male, but another way when passed to a female.
Or into the fact that there are hundreds of animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior. They haven’t died either. Look, they’re on your animal crackers, Nate! If “Teh Gay” had killed ‘em, you wouldn’t have none o’ them animal cookies! And then where would you be?!
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:16 am
pw, why cant evan??? you fags think that you are sooo smart, and that everyone is wrong and stupid, and nothing you do or say is. you’re all completely arrogant!
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:17 am
Nobody’s defaming anyone.
An internet person decided to go find a gay blog, even though he is scared of gays (obviously, as he is now getting hysterical), in order to feel like a Big Man, and he probably thought he would score a few points and then leave, but he found out that he’s completely outranked intellectually, and now he’s upset?
And now he cries that he’s being victimized?
Somebody missed their Grow Up pills today.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:20 am
name one animal species that expresses homosexual behaviors…..prove it!!! and as for the other thing you said…. prove that too!!
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:22 am
For any interested, this thread is a textbook example of the analysis I posted the other, about the fact that what motivates most men in wingnuttia, whatever their personal hang-ups, is the fact that they’re asking the question “Who am I better than?” louder and louder, and the world keeps replying “No one.”
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:23 am
Nate, your need to indulge in insult shows that you only give lip service to Biblical teachings. And as for arrogance, I don’t think you should be throwing rocks given the huge glass house you live in.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 12:26 am
“name one animal species that expresses homosexual behaviors…..prove it!!!
Okay. There are several hundred there. Homosexuality has been observed in nature forever. It’s part of the natural order.
“and as for the other thing you said…. prove that too!!”
Which thing? You’re going to have to be more specific.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:27 am
hahaha, not out ranked…. out numbered. there is a difference. your not intellectually supirior to me… you just have alot more dumb, untrue scientific stats than i do. im not upset with the discussion at all.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:28 am
“hahaha, not out ranked…. out numbered. there is a difference. your not intellectually supirior to me… you just have alot more dumb, untrue scientific stats than i do. im not upset with the discussion at all.”
Hahaha, not *outranked, *outnumbered. There is a difference. *You’re not intellectually *superior to me…you just have *a *lot more dumb [sic], untrue [sic] scientific stats than I do. *I’m not upset with the discussion at all.
There. Fixed it.
And you can’t reject science because it hurts your feelings. I have a feeling if you saw animals having same gender sex, you’d blame it on “The Fall of Man,” which is a story written about a fictional character named Adam and his fictional wife Eve. It’s a story, Nate. Just like Twilight.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:31 am
name one animal species speciffically…. and demonstrate the homosexual behavior that they show. tell me why they do it, and how it is a help to their species? the other thing is with genetics and antagonism… passed one way to males and another way to females?
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:34 am
you still havent named one specific type of animal that does this….
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:36 am
OH MY GOD READ THE ARTICLE DUDE.
I’m not going to wipe your ass for you. Click it. Read it.
And then go and visit my friend Google. All of this information is available on your computer.
And then Google “genetic antagonism.” It’s a newer field of studies that are showing that there is a strong correlation between male homosexuality and female fecundity. In layman’s terms, what that means is that, in a family where there are women who reproduce easily and abundantly, there are more likely to be gay male relatives, and vice versa. The working theory, which seems to be panning out, is that there are genes selected which, when they’re passed on to men, manifest as a homosexual orientation, but when they’re passed on to women, contribute to the very propagation of the human race. It would explain why it stays in the gene pool. It would also partially explain why homosexual behavior is common throughout the animal kingdom.
OH, and you asked for animals that exhibit homosexuality:
Bonobos
Dolphins
Swans
Those are the first three that came to mind.
Rabbits.
(READ THE ARTICLE.)
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:39 am
Nate, you can spare us the pretense that a scientifically derived, rational argument would sway your opinion. You’ve demonstrated by your statements that your animus towards gays is entrenched and furthermore you make it clear that you are willing to violate the teachings of the Bible in order to display that animosity.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 12:40 am
Because, PW, their fear of gays has nothing to do with the Bible, at its root. The Bible is the shield they use because it protects them from having to face their actual fears.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:42 am
i just want to hear it, thats all. and just because animals do it, doesnt make it right either. im not convinced that they do anyway…
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:44 am
All right, you asked for it.
I’m going to Youtube to get you links of animals fucking. Most entertaining thing I’ve done in the last five minutes.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:46 am
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:47 am
what makes you people think i am afraid of you??? i disagree with your lifestyle, and believe the bible backs me up there…. but i am in no way whatsoever “afraid” or for that matter have anything against you as people in any way.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:49 am
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:49 am
“what makes you people think i am afraid of you???”
Your hysterical disconnect from reality, your inability to understand basic logic, your trolling of gay blogs. My theory is that this is the only way you can spend time with gay people without feeling guilty.
And other things. Believe me. I’ve studied your psychosis. I understand that you’re scared. I understand that you’re hiding behind the Bible. I’m not sure whether you’re scared of your true self, or what. But I know that your behavior springs from fear.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:52 am
My favorite part is at the end when the National Geographic video talks about the dolphins doing each other in the blowhole.
Stephanie Tanner says HOW RUDE!
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:54 am
hahaha, that was interesting. doesnt mean the animals are gay…my male dog humps anything it can mount… my leg, my daughters stuffed gorilla, other dogs male and female…. doesnt mean anything. animals dont think like people do… they dont do it because they want to have sex with the same gender.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 12:55 am
How the hell do you know?
Haven’t you ever heard of penguins who choose to pair off with a member of their same gender for life? They’re monogamous.
Have you really lived under a rock your whole life? I feel like I’m talking to a particularly stupid child here, one who’s unwilling/unable to learn.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 12:57 am
My favorite part of this discussion is that a guy who likely works at McDonald’s thinks he knows more than scientists who have studied these things their entire lives.
There’s a time to know when you’re completely, yes, outranked, intellectually, by every other commenter in this thread. And then, maybe, you can learn something, instead of puffing up your chest in your fake masculine “pride,” because you think that we’re bothered by you, but really? We’re all just laughing.
Anyway. I’m going to let you continue to get it out of your system, and then I’m probably going to ban you, because you said “you fags” and you don’t do that on a gay website. It’s just one of those things. How long will you get to continue? I DON’T KNOW. Until I decide to push the banning button.
;-)
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:01 am
my cousin is gay…. so thats not it. i have many gay co workers…. thats not it either.i am not sure what you mean by trolling, but the reason i found this sight is because, a radio show i listen to… bob enyart live. bob debated wayne besen. so, i looke dat the sight, and this article pissed me off, so i commented on it. then, you replied to it…. and so on.. my natuiral inclination is to converse when the opportunity comes up. its funny that i have to be gay myself in order to talk like i have been. thats a typical reaction toward any christian from a homo.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:04 am
how do i know??? how do you know???
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:09 am
No, Nate, it’s just that often people who troll gay websites are closet cases.
And do you treat your gay coworkers and your gay cousin the way you treat people on the internet? Do they know what an unreconstructed bigot you are? Or do they just ignore you?
Oh, and the definition of “trolling” is “going to blogs you disagree with in order to be annoying, to add nothing to the discussion, to say nothing intelligent, but just to take up space.” That’s trolling. You’re a troll.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:10 am
“how do i know??? how do you know???”
I know because I’m one of the three people at this blog with the power to make your comments disappear. ;-)
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:11 am
Nate, apparently you were pissed off because those ministers said they were wrong for defaming gays. This strongly implies that you approve when gays are mistreated and defamed by others. I’m sure your gay cousin and gay co-workers would love to know that you think they should be treated like dirt. And despite your comments that you don’t have anything against anyone, your name calling and sarcasm say otherwise.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 1:11 am
riiiiiggghhhttt……k, i’m a troll. i’ll pray for you, and everyone on here. okay….
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:14 am
Tell your imaginary friend I said “Holla!”
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:14 am
oh please…. im the one who has been treated like dirt here.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:16 am
Poor pooky.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:17 am
its cool, i expected nothing less…
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:19 am
you’ll never get the full acceptance, or the rights you are fighting for. mark my words…… sorry guys.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:22 am
For future reference, when you want to win arguments with smart people, you need to know something about something.
You can’t just crap things onto the comment form and expect your “ideas” to be treated with respect. You have to back them up and “GODSAIDSO” is not an answer.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:23 am
“you’ll never get the full acceptance, or the rights you are fighting for. mark my words…… sorry guys.”
How do you explain the fact that the only groups who still oppose us are close to death?
In the Maine vote, 81% of college students voted for marriage equality.
California is consistently polling over 50% in support of equality now. Every year, lots of anti-gay old people die, and lots of pro-gay people turn 18.
That’s the hardest part for you — our equality is a foregone conclusion. All the statistical data shows that to be true. That’s why people like you are getting more hysterical.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:25 am
GOD SAID SO is the only answer!! too bad you dont like that. maybe one day you’ll get it.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:26 am
none of that is even true…. those are all false stats.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:27 am
Nate, I’m not buying your victim routine. You are facing opposition after complaining that it was bad for ministers to apologize for mistreating other people. You put yourself in the position of advocating for defamation and discrimination and as such you got called on it. That does not make you a victim nor are you being treated like dirt. You are being challenged to explain how your position is congruent with your religious values and beliefs. Your response has been to indulge in name calling, spurious arguments and sarcasm. At anytime you could have saved face by agreeing to disagree or possibly rethinking your original comment, your refusal to do so is your own choice and cannot be blamed on others.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 1:29 am
likewise pw
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:30 am
“none of that is even true…. those are all false stats.”
Hahahahaha, keep telling yourself that, babycakes.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:32 am
im not rethinking anything i have said. i stand by it, and the word of god backs me up on it.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:33 am
“GOD SAID SO is the only answer!! too bad you dont like that. maybe one day you’ll get it.”
Nope. Your god is a figment of your imagination. Sorry.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:33 am
“im not rethinking anything i have said.”
To be “rethinking” you would have first had to be thinking, Nate.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:34 am
keep taking shots….. just makes you sound childish. im done, im out. go ahead evan…. ban me.
Comment by nate — April 9, 2010 @ 1:36 am
Nate, there is no likewise here, I am not playing victim, you are.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 1:36 am
Nate, no the Bible does not back you up, slander is forbidden. If you knew that you wouldn’t have made your initial comment.
Comment by PW — April 9, 2010 @ 1:38 am
Nate sounds so tired.
The Last Gasps of the Wingnut.
I think I’m going to write a play about him.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 2:02 am
Evan, the guy listens to Bob Enyart. If he’d OPENED with that bit of info, it would have been enough of a red flag to ignore him. There’s also the little matter of insisting that if a Christian says anything he doesn’t agree with, that person isn’t a “real” Christian.
What a maroon.
Comment by Bill S — April 9, 2010 @ 7:32 am
I’ve heard of Enyart, and I know he’s some wingnut, but it’s not ringing a bell right now.
How insane is he?
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 9:39 am
For Enyart see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Enyart
Comment by William — April 9, 2010 @ 10:38 am
See also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtGx2uPJzQA
Comment by William — April 9, 2010 @ 10:45 am
Oh wow. He’s one of the truly stupid, truly insane ones.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 11:12 am
Nate– you failed to naswer even one of my points about what the bible allegedly says and what Christians actually do.
Divorce is a simple matter. eitheri t is permitted or it isn’t. No questions aobut rape, slander, and everything.
Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 9, 2010 @ 11:22 am
Nate said “if you dont accept that jesus is who he says he is, and you dont accept the bible as the inspired holy word of the living God, then what do you believe in?”.
Maximizing the benefit and minimizing the negative for all in an equal fashion.
Nate asked “where will you go when you die?”
When we die that will be the end of us. That’s why its vital that you make the most of this life and not waste any of it doing things for something that won’t occur once you’re dead.
Nate said “[gayness] does absolutely nothing to benefit the human race, or your precious science.”.
Nonsense. Same sex attractions bring people together, encourage them to care for one another, make such couples happier and more productive which in turn benefits all of society.
Nate said “but i am in no way whatsoever “afraid” or for that matter have anything against you as people in any way.”
Ridiculous. If you had nothing against gays you wouldn’t be calling them fags and ranting about how evil, disgusting, and desstructive they are. If you had nothing against gays you would never have posted here in the first place.
Nate said “[animals] dont do it because they want to have sex with the same gender.”.
Of course they do. If they didn’t want to have sex with the same gender they wouldn’t be having sex with the same gender – case closed.
Nate said “i’ll pray for you, and everyone on here. okay….”.
Oh, sweet! Could you tell the big guy to get me a 2005 Ford GT, black interior, blue exterior, low miles, and in great shape?
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 9, 2010 @ 12:35 pm
Yes, and while he’s getting that car, I would like a pie to magically land on the table next to me, plz. I am in the mood for pie.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 9, 2010 @ 1:02 pm
Mmmmm, pie. Auggulllaauggaugg.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 9, 2010 @ 1:19 pm
Which kind of pie? I like the apple kind that has those crumbly things on top.
Comment by Bill S — April 9, 2010 @ 3:29 pm