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	<title>Comments on: Religion Does Not Mean Morality</title>
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	<description>Fighting antigay lies and the ex-gay myth</description>
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		<title>By: adrianT</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9163</link>
		<dc:creator>adrianT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It just shows that you can get away with almost anything if you call yourself a man of faith. 

Whilever worshipping, or believing without evidence, is considered socially acceptable - a virtue in fact -  these things will go on happening.

The late, sadly missed Carl Sagan hit the nail on the head in his last work, possibly the best defence of reason and rational thinking ever published, &#039;Demon Haunted World&#039; - When you teach people not to think, not to doubt, not to ask probing questions, not to inquire, not to use their critical faculties, then society is at risk of falling prey to fraudsters, as well as those who want to destroy freedom. 

We need to stop judging a person&#039;s actions by their reputation. Never mind Abramoff, Haggard, and co, the same applied to the fanatical Albanian nun Theresa of Calcutta, treated like a goddess by the worlds rich and powerful, while her hospices were like death camps - according to those who worked with her. 

Wayne is right, but didn&#039;t go nearly far enough; we don&#039;t get our morality from religion. There&#039;s plenty of scientific evidence, after lengthy studies of other primates that back this up. &#039;Do as you would be done by&#039; is in fact, written into our genes. 

Arguably, when inspired by Christianity at least, good deeds are done out of compulsion - to evade a wrong action; or out of fear, from being monitored every minute of the day and night by a tyrant in the sky; or to expect a reward, in terms of eternal life. That is not morality, it is not an encouragement to be good for goodness&#039;  sake. It&#039;s blackmail: accept my message or go to hell. This is evil, Orwellian, Stalinist. And the notion that I can abdicate any responsibility for my actions, is appalling. Go on a killing spree, get a whitewash, pretend it didn&#039;t happen and start all over again. 

Teaching people that, without the supposed gruseome death of a man in Palestine (in fact he didn&#039;t even die), I could not know wrong from right, is an insult to dignity. We deserve better than this.  

And historically, human rights, and the associated advnaces in morality, have been secular triumphs - like the American Constitution - gained in spite of religious opposition. Otherwise look at the crime and sexual disease rates or human rights records in non-religious countries like Northern Europe, and compare them with deeply religious countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just shows that you can get away with almost anything if you call yourself a man of faith. </p>
<p>Whilever worshipping, or believing without evidence, is considered socially acceptable &#8211; a virtue in fact &#8211;  these things will go on happening.</p>
<p>The late, sadly missed Carl Sagan hit the nail on the head in his last work, possibly the best defence of reason and rational thinking ever published, &#8216;Demon Haunted World&#8217; &#8211; When you teach people not to think, not to doubt, not to ask probing questions, not to inquire, not to use their critical faculties, then society is at risk of falling prey to fraudsters, as well as those who want to destroy freedom. </p>
<p>We need to stop judging a person&#8217;s actions by their reputation. Never mind Abramoff, Haggard, and co, the same applied to the fanatical Albanian nun Theresa of Calcutta, treated like a goddess by the worlds rich and powerful, while her hospices were like death camps &#8211; according to those who worked with her. </p>
<p>Wayne is right, but didn&#8217;t go nearly far enough; we don&#8217;t get our morality from religion. There&#8217;s plenty of scientific evidence, after lengthy studies of other primates that back this up. &#8216;Do as you would be done by&#8217; is in fact, written into our genes. </p>
<p>Arguably, when inspired by Christianity at least, good deeds are done out of compulsion &#8211; to evade a wrong action; or out of fear, from being monitored every minute of the day and night by a tyrant in the sky; or to expect a reward, in terms of eternal life. That is not morality, it is not an encouragement to be good for goodness&#8217;  sake. It&#8217;s blackmail: accept my message or go to hell. This is evil, Orwellian, Stalinist. And the notion that I can abdicate any responsibility for my actions, is appalling. Go on a killing spree, get a whitewash, pretend it didn&#8217;t happen and start all over again. </p>
<p>Teaching people that, without the supposed gruseome death of a man in Palestine (in fact he didn&#8217;t even die), I could not know wrong from right, is an insult to dignity. We deserve better than this.  </p>
<p>And historically, human rights, and the associated advnaces in morality, have been secular triumphs &#8211; like the American Constitution &#8211; gained in spite of religious opposition. Otherwise look at the crime and sexual disease rates or human rights records in non-religious countries like Northern Europe, and compare them with deeply religious countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Airhart</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9156</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Airhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=1471#comment-9156</guid>
		<description>&quot;Morality&quot; is sometimes, unfortunately, a rationalization of baser instincts.

Wars fought over shortages of territory and resources are rationalized as a fight for the moral superiority of one tribe or culture over another, when parties decide that they cannot or will not share what is available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Morality&#8221; is sometimes, unfortunately, a rationalization of baser instincts.</p>
<p>Wars fought over shortages of territory and resources are rationalized as a fight for the moral superiority of one tribe or culture over another, when parties decide that they cannot or will not share what is available.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9155</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.&quot;

How true........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.&#8221;</p>
<p>How true&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9154</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=1471#comment-9154</guid>
		<description>&quot;Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LESLIE A TURVEY</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9133</link>
		<dc:creator>LESLIE A TURVEY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=1471#comment-9133</guid>
		<description>Hello Rabbi Arie Chark

I have read your article in the Welland Tribune, regarding the difficulty of being Jewish at xmas time.
   I am a Christian, but for several years have shared this perspective from a Jewish lady. Thought you would like to read it too.

&quot;It strikes me as odd, how quickly the Christmas spirit turns on just after halloween, and turns off on January 2nd. Perhaps Christmas has just become an excuse to do, once a year, what we should be doing all year round: be charitable, connect with friends, and live life -- have a good time. I guess I&#039;m saying that I do enjoy the fringe benefits of Christmas without participating. The lights are lovely, the music joyous, the giving admirable. But it is nice to come home to the simplicity of the Chanukah candles.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Rabbi Arie Chark</p>
<p>I have read your article in the Welland Tribune, regarding the difficulty of being Jewish at xmas time.<br />
   I am a Christian, but for several years have shared this perspective from a Jewish lady. Thought you would like to read it too.</p>
<p>&#8220;It strikes me as odd, how quickly the Christmas spirit turns on just after halloween, and turns off on January 2nd. Perhaps Christmas has just become an excuse to do, once a year, what we should be doing all year round: be charitable, connect with friends, and live life &#8212; have a good time. I guess I&#8217;m saying that I do enjoy the fringe benefits of Christmas without participating. The lights are lovely, the music joyous, the giving admirable. But it is nice to come home to the simplicity of the Chanukah candles.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Arie Chark</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2008/12/1471/comment-page-1/#comment-9084</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Arie Chark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=1471#comment-9084</guid>
		<description>I do not have the privilege of knowing Rabbi Wolpe, though we surely know many of the same people. I do know that if you are quoting R Wolpe in context I fundamentally disagree with him. It simply does not matter what community one is raised in. Immorality is a plague that infests even well-trained religious people, which is why ethics is an essential component of religious development. R Wolpe confuses observance and ethics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not have the privilege of knowing Rabbi Wolpe, though we surely know many of the same people. I do know that if you are quoting R Wolpe in context I fundamentally disagree with him. It simply does not matter what community one is raised in. Immorality is a plague that infests even well-trained religious people, which is why ethics is an essential component of religious development. R Wolpe confuses observance and ethics.</p>
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