I have long been outspoken on the abuses of GLBT people in Jamaica and the need for action. I can’t imagine why any American, European or Canadian who cares about human rights would spend a dime visiting this island bubbling over with hate. Last week, Jamaica’s Prime Minister, Bruce Golding, firmly stated how he approved of the persecution of gay people. He stated that gay rights groups are “perhaps the most organized lobby in the world” and he vowed to fight to keep the nation’s sodomy law on the books.
“We are not going to yield to the pressure, whether that pressure comes from individual organizations, individuals, whether that pressure comes from foreign governments or groups of countries, to liberalize the laws as it relates to buggery,” said Golding.
Timothy Kincaid at Box Turtle Bulletin wrote an excellent piece describing the abuses in Jamaica.
Personally, I’ve had enough of the prejudice and persecution. Golding’s comments are one step too far. It boils my blood when our straight friends (and uninformed GLBT people) continue to travel and spend money in Jamaica. There are thousands of people, if they knew the truth, who would not visit a place more accurately described as “Ja-Murder.”
Today, Truth Wins Out purchased www.BoycottJamaica.org. We are not yet sure if we want to launch a full-fledged boycott. But, it is nice to know we have this site in our back pocket and can take action against this nation that seems to have a unique and disturbing – if not psychotic – antipathy towards GLBT people.
It is worth mentioning that the local gay Jamaican group is against a boycott. We take their opposition very seriously. But, to tell you the truth, what else would one expect from them? If they supported a boycott they would be labeled unpatriotic and turned into scapegoats. And, from their public statements, they sound like hostages reading from a script. Do they have any choice but to publicly reject a boycott?
For years, we have heard that if we just keep quiet about this issue, things will get better. But, they haven’t. Sometimes, direct action is needed to make change.
We would appreciate the thoughts of our loyal readers.
Finally, a word to the Jamaican government. If Truth Wins Out elects to launch a boycott, we plan to succeed. Please don’t underestimate our commitment and resolve.
That “local Jamaican group” can go to hell. Bloodthirsty, aren’t they?
“No, no, no. Don’t tell American gays to stay away from our nasty place. Send ‘em on over, because we need to get laid too. And arrested. And tortured. And murdered.”
It’s called a “banana boat”. Jump on one and get the hell out of dodge, if you don’t want to be a hostage to those savages anymore. Don’t have a boat? Rip the door off your house, and use that instead.
f**k Jamaica!
Wayne I feel that we and our straight allies absolutely must completely boycott Jamaica until these bigots on this island nation stop their hateful attacks on lgbts. These people need to see just how much they have to lose for their continued bigotry. See how they would like tourism to drop by half or more.
I say definitely boycott, in fact I’ve been waiting for an organized effort on this front.
The unacceptable promotion of violence is one thing, but worse than that is the continued ignorance on the matter. Which is understandable, given that the stories of violence and deep seated climate of hatred are often sporadic and rarely if ever reach the main stream media.
You almost have to be an online activist to really understand how bad things are down there. And even with all that I’ve been exposed to, I’ve still found myself mentally dismissing online ads for Jamaica travel, and getting lulled into those dreamy TV commercials (of which I see several a night, btw).
I’m keen on them now, but I can understand how those who don’t use the internet, or don’t use it often enough to keep up on LGBT news (or don”t keep up at all), would miss what’ going on there – but would definitely want to know.
LGBT’ would want to know for their personal safety, and/or to warn their LGBT friends who travel, and as Kincaid points out in that BTB article:
In regard to that, I’m sure many of our allies would be more than willing to boycott Jamaica if they knew how bad things are there for us. But also, as far as personal safety goes, the intensity of anti-gay vitriol is such that I can easily see it being extended to them as well, especially family members and friends. All one would have to do is let it slip (or be overheard) that a loved one is gay and that you support them, and they could then be seen as aiding, abetting, and promoting the heinous “crime” of homosexuality. In fact those are some stories that might want to be researched – whether from travelers or Jamaicans.
I don’t know what designs you had in mind for that site, but I can definitely see the effectiveness of a one click-through clearinghouse of all things anti-LGBT Jamaican related.
————–
“We are not yet sure if we want to launch a full-fledged boycott.”
What if you went full-fledged with a tagline like: “For your own safety, boycott Jamaica.”
That would immediately convey the motive as being about physical safety, undermine the accusations the “family” groups are sure to levy, and clarify that this isn’t just some inanely frivolous boycott of the AFA variety.
Boycott or not, awareness needs to be raised. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this.
[...] lives if they are forced to return. Meanwhile, support for boycotting Jamaica continues to build. Stay tuned. Tags: Jamaica For related information, see International LINK [...]
Wayne,
If you go forward with this, you have my support.
Thanks Timothy. It looks like we are moving forward.
You have my support Wayne.
You know what else we could use?
A YouTube video with the music of that Jamaican commercial “One Love,” juxtaposed with images of blood soaked victims and quotes like:
I can just see the song ‚ô™let’ get together and feel alright‚ô™ being played over a mob beating…superimposed on a waterfall..
I agree and support the boycott of Jamaica. I also love reggae but I boycott Dancehall which has some of the most homophobic and vile lyrics.
Careful! This all sounds great but do you have any idea of the unintended consequences of your 1st world actions? We in the US should not be making unilateral decisions about other people’s lives. If the leadership of the LGBT community in Jamaica is saying “no” to this boycott, we ought to pay attention. After all, its their lives that are in danger, not yours. Americans always think they have all the answers to the worlds problems. Look where it got us in Iraq. Don’t be arrogant and stupid like George Bush.
Joan:
The leadership in Jamaica is in a hostage situation. They can’t really endorse a boycott. This much is obvious by reading the State Department report.
We in the U.S. have a social responsibility to reward countries that treat gay people with dignity and respect. It would be really stupid to reward a country where gay people are abused and murdered. It is wrong to ask Americans and Canadians to be enablers. How in good conscience could you scuba dive in a place where on shore gay people are hiding for their lives. The very idea is anathema to most people.
Consumers have a right to know that their hard earned money is not propping up a regime that promotes and celebrates gay bashing.
@Joan of Arc
While I understand your concerns about a complete boycott and the repercussions it might have on the people of the island nation, the simple fact of the matter is this: if I were to visit Jamaica I know that I would have to suppress an essential part of me strictly as a matter of self-preservation. Retreating into the closet doesn’t sound like a fun way to spend my hard-earned vacation dollars. I would never set foot in Jamaica, and in all good conscience I’d never let any of my friends do the same. If that’ tantamount to a boycott, so be it.
Any gay tourist who steps foot in Jamaica risks assault by vigilantes, while the police protect the vigilantes.
Why, then, would any friend or family member of a gay person go to this proudly violent island?
I think you guys should pay more attention to the wishes of the Jamaican gay and lesbian lobby. If the situation on the ground in Jamaica were as bad as you say, why would they not want to support a boycott?
As a Jamaican resident with gay friends, I am appalled by the reports in foreign media which do not reflect what is happening in my country. Of course we have bigots and stupid people, same as in the US; and yes, there are incidents when gays have been attacked, same as in the US, but there is no state sponsored or official agenda against gays in Jamaica.
This is just another incident of powerful first world people forcing their agenda on a developing country – Just because you can.
Gays have a right to the pursuit of happiness, and so do Jamaicans.
I am a Jamaican gay man living in Jamaica..happily and successfully even as I live discreetly and dislike the homophobia that’s too rampant here. This is what motivated me open a club in the hills of St Andrew, launch a social networking site for Caribbean LGBT around the world and also open a rainbowVilla in Ocho Rios to cater to my rainbow family at home and abroad.
Why..I believe that me and my friends and their friends living more boldy,loudly and successfully like any other, we can transcend the madness.
I am in two minds about a boycott on jamaica…part of me says yes serves u right Jamaica u need a more open door, less hypocritical stance like GayCuracao.com…and part me of says no…how else can we make change happen….
1. Show up the hypocrisy of Jamaica. Yeah we supposedly have ore churches per sq mile…can someone count those bars too, we have the same amount if not more..but they don’t want the world to know that.
2. Let all the gays and lesbians possible to start buying up land, villas and hotels and paint them rainbow. While Jamaicans may curse about gayness etc…they love money and jobs more. Nothing like foreign investments to shut up many.
thats my stance
Matthew
I agree with you Matthew.
Im sorry but I am Jamaican I must defend my little Island…….. Jamaica is 90% Christian if not more..Now why would homosexual wanna be in a place that is mostly inhabited by Christians??? I see this as simple provoking…the same was walking pass a hungry lion’s cage with meat n then crying foul when your ripped apart………….i find it very annoying because I know that their are other places in the world that more than welcome homosexuals with open arms instead these homosexual organizations seems to be on a war path for any place that doesnt agree with how they live their lifestyle…..
I say stop trying to force feed your lifestyles on our small country………..its clear how Jamaica feels about homosexuality leave us alone n stop trying to “convert” our minds cause it will only result in voilence that could have more than been avoided.
what two grown ppl do in the comforts of their own homes is nobody business…..but parading out in the public where you know that your lifestyle is not accepted is only saying hey look at me mocking your values and believes.
Ooooh n hitting us in our pockets only means your hurting the same homosexuals you claim you are trying to protect because they too also call “C-Murder” home.
YOW! YOU All ARE GOING TO BURN IN HEll. Jamaica is not a place which accepts or promotes the murder of anyone, regardless of their sexual preferences. There is no clear record to justify that anyone was ever murdered here because they were gay. Most of the gays harmed or even killed here was done so by their gay spouses, check it!
You all have your beliefs and we are not telling you to change; we are merely saying that you should keep your ‘dirty clothes’ at your yard, and don’t try to pass it off on others under the facade of Human Rights.
You don’t want to come to Jamaica, that’s your business. We have enough GAYS here to deal with anyway.
And besides, we are far more pleased to have our beaches lined with heterosexual couples than to have your sickening sight.
let me ask you guys something> why not tell the pope to give up his religon because it offends muslims? it is our right to choose our lifestyle and we has jamaicans DONT LOVE gays we thinks its morally wrong and we will not change …if u all want to be happy buy a island and you all go on it to live…we wont be there to hate…
If you have a problem with a boycott there is a solution. Have your country stop murdering and brutalizing our people. The fact that Jamaica claims to be “Christian” is no excuse for this immoral and disgusting behavior.
This boycott is going to work. You can bet on it.
Jamaica has a choice. It can play by the rule of law and treat all people with the dignity and respect they deserve. Or, it can become an international pariah state and wither.
The choice is yours. The homophobia and violence must end. And end now.
My, such “Christian love” coming from Chow, Badd, and paul.
Since I’m a Jew and not a Christian, you think I’M going to Hell as well. That’s fine. What ISN’T fine is killing me for not changing religions.
You guys don’t get it. We’re not deporting our gays to Jamaica, they are born there. Er.. ok, let me put it in a way YOU can understand it: the gay Jamaicans that are “tempted” by homosexuality are “born into that sin” there. So since they are born into that “sinful nature,” they should not be murdered for it. And doing something privately in someone’s home, where no one is a victim, is not a reason to murder someone.
“one love” my a*s. What a spiteful, hateful lot you all are. Maybe it’s all the poverty. We might have bigotry here in the U.S., but at least I don’t have to worry about being “found out” that I’m a lesbian and then brutally murdered for doing nothing to anybody else.
How “Christian” of you. Maybe you can get smashed at the bars and toke on your ganja to forget about the hateful misery you marinate in.
Here we go again. Boycott Jamaica, that homophobic hellhole on earth. It would be good if many of you even had a clue what you are talking about instead of being both stupid and hypocrites. That includes Wayne Besen and Timothy Kincaid.
The impression is that non-gay Jamaicans are out for gay blood. Nothing is further from the truth. Many gays live in Jamaica, are known and left alone. The majority of Jamaincas up to 95% are not homophobic. They do not support homosexuality, but they do not persecute them for being gay.
Jamaicans stance against homosexuality is rooted in biblical scriptures, which by the way is what you westerners forced them at the point of death to adopt as their religion.
Is there anti-homosexual violence in Jamaica? Of course there is. Is there anti-homosexual violence in the United States? Obviously not seeing most of the above post.
What tends to happen and what hits the headlines is when there a case of gay-bashing. But you brainless fools (nothing to do withyou being gay) have never stopped to ask if there was a trigger, a flashpoint. Its very unlikley that someone ‘just’ gets up one morning with the intent to ‘kill a gay’.
Usually, there is a rumor or the like, sometimes substantiated, sometimes not, of a amle child being molested by a man. That causes rage and that rage is extended to many who are suspected of being gay. Irrational? I can agree with that.
Unusual, even in the US… of course not. In fact just a few years ago, and still in many parts of the US, blacks face death for chatting up a white woman. Guess you don’t believe that huh? Shows you don’t know your own country.
Then that is how many of you react to the thought of a pedophile loose in the neighborhood.
Then again, many ‘gay murders’ in Jamaica are caused by sexual encounters. In several cases, men have been kille dby sexual partners or someone they are hoping to ‘turn’ into sexual partners. It doesn’t happen that way? If you don’t believe that then you are indeed a sad excuse for a sensible person.
I don’t defend the persecution of gays in Jamaica or anywhere. I don’t support the sodomy laws there. If if you idiots think that you are going to change minds by boycotts, then you surely have your head up someone else’s arse.
Jamaicans will change, in their own time. You cannot force change on them. You shouldnt. One writer made the comparison to Iraq. Quite correct. You cannot force social change on anyone.
The overall point is that none of you know Jamaica. None. Most of you are driven by misinformation and a misplaced rush to judge. You prefer to judge based on stereotyping which you condemn from anyone else. You wish to punish several million people without knowing the percentage who are hateful and who commit crimes against homosexuals.
You quite easily dismiss the the opinions of those gays on the island as ‘hostages’. You quote the state department. Is this the same dept that claimed the rational to make war on Iraq and is trying to set up the American people so they can go to war against Iran? The same dept that still cannot find its a*s.
Wake up people. Find some truth before you get so out of synch.
To David – The TRUTH is that Jamaica is an inhospitable place for anyone in the LGBT community. It’s only natural that we will choose to spend our money elsewhere and encourage our allies to do the same.
I feel sad for members of the community that live there and hope they will find a way to escape. You, on the other hand, are welcome to stay there in religion-fueled ignorance and poverty.
being gay is not normal and we jamaicans are a normal set of ppl.. we dont advocte violence against gays and lesbo,,, but we will not be forced to accept the behaviour as right… go to Aruba or curacao where its ok to be gay drink bud or Coors and and have uall self a big ungodly orgy…
Paul:
Who are you kidding? Jamaica has one of the highest crime rates in the world. It is known for its ganja. It is full of orgies. Normal?
Being gay is quite natural and normal. This is why there are so many gays in Jamaica – like everywhere else in the world. Your violence and hatred against gays is disgusting and helps no one. It is time to stop this nonsense and accept people for who they are.
If not, Jamaica will pay dearly.
I’m a straight man of Jamaican descent and I lived in Jamaica for 10 years, I’m very aware of the homophobia that exists.
What is going to be achieved by boycotting Jamaican products?
This action will probably have the opposite effect and increase the attacks on the very same people they are ‘trying’ to protect.
I’m very sure that this is the very last thing gays and lesbians in Jamaica want to happen.
Have the gay groups in Jamaica being consulted about this pending action? I doubt it very much.
Even though Jamaica may have the most churches per square mile it doesn’t make them a christian society so I’m not swayed by that argument.
The media and others have spun this to make it appear that all Jamaicans do is look for gays and kill them. In fact the majority of Jamaicans are thinking about how to put food on their table and pay their bills.
I’m sure there’s homophobia all over the world including Saudi Arabia, why not start the campaign there first before starting on Jamaica?
Or better still sort out the problems in USA first. Because Jamaica has no natural resources some want to bully Jamaica by threaten to disrupt tourism and exports.
There are so many other injustices happening in the world. And the USA is one of the biggest curprits.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE SORTED ALL THE OTHERS WRONGS IN THE WORLD ONLY THEN YOU CAN CHAT TO JAMAICA!!
Jamaican mobs are bullying, chasing, and killing gay Jamaicans in the streets. It’s unacceptable that so many other Jamaicans do nothing to stop the violence.
Americans are under no obligation to economically support such violence and immorality.
The arguments that are now being made by Jamaicans against the boycott were also made by U.S. conservatives in favor of “constructive engagement” with South Africa during the 1970s and 1980s. That trade policy prolonged apartheid by a decade and kept Nelson Mandela in prison.
It’s past time for Jamaicans to stop defending the mobs and the police tolerance of such mobs.
The message to Jamaicans is simple: Protect the life and safety of all Jamaicans, or face the consequences as tourists are repulsed by your violence and apathy.
It amazes me that antigay Jamaicans are so resistant to this simple reality.
As for Saudi Arabia — no worries, Noel. I own an energy-efficient car, walk to most destinations, and buy my gas from Latin American sources whenever possible. I oppose antigay violence in the United States, and I am sick of antigay Jamaicans exporting their violence here.
The response of antigay Jamaicans to the boycott initiative has been:
“If you Americans do not give us more tourism money, then we will kill more homosexuals.”
My response is No. I will not be blackmailed. I choose to stop paying ransom.
Mr. Wayne Besen and his cohorts are angry that most Jamaicans do not share their appetite for homosexuality. He must also be angry that many other countries worldwide despise his kind. If he’s caught in Saudi Arabia engaging in homosexual acts, he would likely be sentenced and chopped to pieces by an executioner. In Iran, he would be buried in the ground and stoned to death. Other countries have even more brutal ways of dealing with Mr. Besen and his friends. A lot of these countries have natural resources that curtail their reliance on the West, especially the United States, where Mr. Besen apparently lives. So, like the typical American bully, Mr. Besen targets Jamaica, the country he deems weak. I wonder if Mr. Wayne Besen’s targeting of Jamaica is also a reflection of his racial animus. Here is a “white man” who has no qualms about punishing over a million black people, and speaks so cavalierly about the damaging effect it would have on their lives, although the majority of these people has never attacked a human being, gay or straight, in their entire lives. I wonder if he would lead a similar campaign to boycott Israel that up to recently murdered over 1,400 Palestinians, severely injured another 10,000, and destroyed everything in sight with high powered weapons of mass destruction given to Israel by the world’s main culprit engaging in mass murders and grave violations of human rights on a daily basis.
No! Mr. Besen focuses on tiny Jamaica and hypes the deaths of a few individuals, none of whom was his friend, but who happened to be gay. He tries, dishonestly, to give the impression that Jamaicans are going on a rampage killing gays wherever they find them in Jamaica. Of course, one would have to be a fool to believe Mr. Besen’s sensationalism. While Mr. Besen condemns Jamaicans for isolated acts of crime against gays, he’s numb about the attacks, and even deaths, of gays in his home country. Further, he fails to mention that many States in the United States have laws that forbid the kinds of sexual activities that Mr. Besen wants to foist on everyone in Jamaica. Well, Mr. Besen, if you and your other gay buddies have failed to persuade most Americans to embrace your lifestyles, why do you believe that other people in the world will be more sympathetic? As one commentator opined, it might be best for you to change things in your yard before hypocritically lashing out at others and trying to shove your desires down their throats. You might enjoy things being “shoved” down your throat, but my Jamaican friends find it abhorrent.
Please feel free to commence your boycott campaign against Jamaica. Hopefully, more people of goodwill and common sense will outnumber the band of obnoxious gay activists, like yourself, who want to parade, with impunity, their offensive lifestyle everywhere they go.
The antigay mob violence is not exaggerated. It is real.
It has been reported by Human Rights Watch, the New York Times, and Time magazine, among other media.
It has also been reported by gay tourists to Jamaica, who were battered or threatened.
Donovan’s bigotry, inhospitality, and apathy regarding violence may be an unfortunate reflection of broader problems with present-day Jamaica.
Mr. Airhart:
New York Times and Time Magazine, among other Western Media, reported that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. To this day, none has been found. Now, you can based your beliefs on Western media outlets that have been discredited consistently and who seemingly have a perpetual agenda to cast aspersions on poor developing or so-called third world countries. I, however, refuse to rely solely on the biased and corrupted Western media. Rather, my position is based on 40 years of being Jamaican. Additionally, you refer to Human Rights Watch (HRW), as if this group’s opinion is dispositive. You might want to anchor your opinion on whatever HRW has to say, but don’t expect everyone to be just as gullible.
Like Mr. Besen, you resort to twisting circumstances to suit your agenda. Imagine, you are dishonestly suggesting that I am condoning violence. What I am not condoning, sir, is your obvious propensity to exaggerate the situation and use inflammatory language to create the perception that Jamaicans are everywhere committing atrocities against gays. Nothing could be furthest from the truth. Further, your admonishment concerning violence seems more fitting for present-day America. Have you forgotton that Americans have killed over 1 million Iraqis and have left millions more in destitution? Every day, Americans are still killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan and destroying people’s property and country. Their appetite for death and mayhem seems insatiable.
Why don’t you and your gay friends focus on a campaign to stop the senseless killing and destruction perpetrated by America? No, that is too irrelevant. You would prefer to attack tiny Jamaica because Jamaicans will not yield to your “battymanism” (you won’t find that in your American dictionary). Well, I applaud my fellow Jamaicans. Someone has to say NO! Most Jamaicans would prefer dying (and violently too) than to be compelled by the likes of you and Mr. Besen to embrace homosexuality.
For me, it is quite clear. A few homosexuals would like an entire population to succumb to threats, intimidation, distortions, and extortion. Not everyone is as pliable as gullible Americans. We will not be driven by fear. As the Jamaican Prime Minister insinuated: our laws will not be dictated by homosexuals. NEVER!
Donovan, I didn’t say you condone violence. I said you don’t give a damn. That, in my opinion, is much worse.
And Donovan, since you appear to be writing from Long Island, I think you might consider showing a little more respect for the United States and for the high value that we place upon individual freedom and peaceful co-existence.
Dear friends of the boycott mentality. Would I be insulting if I referred to you as ignorant and arrogant. You see, you don’t know Jamaica. You are basing your arguments for a boycott on a few incidents reported sensationally in newspapers and blogs.
I lived in Jamaica for over 47 years. My first real job was in television and my mentor for years was gay (was, not because he got ‘converted’ but he died … more likely from alcohol and cigarette abuse). For a good part of my working life, we were quite close. I slept at his house frequently.
Several other members of the section were gay. Never did any other member of staff abuse any of them in relations to their homosexuality and only mentioned such infrequently. That is not something you find from homophobes.
I personally, as a one-time newspaper columnist, several times argued against the mentality of distrust and intolerance. But mistrust and intolerance arent homophobia.
There are many gays in Jamaica and many are known openly. But unlike what you think, there is no concerted or widespread attacks on gays. Do they happen? Of course and I am shamed as I am shamed by every incidence of robbery, murder, rape, domestic abuse or any other rime that happens in Jamaica.
There are less than 1% homophobes in Jamaica out of a population of 2.5 million. Less than 1% of crimes against the person are related to homophobia.
Jamaicans do not openly go on the hunt for homosexuals the way whites used to go on the hunt for stray blacks in the US.
There are a higher % of ‘arrested and beaten while black’ in the US than the same in regards to gays in Jamaica.
What many of you indignant, self-righteous harpies fail to understand is that many times you are ‘took’. One of the ways for a Jamaica person to get inot Canada is to claim that as a gay he would be killed if he returned to Jamaica.
So why would he be killed? Has the Jamaican authorities posted the pics of every gay Jamaican in the post offices and on lightpost with a reward for his death or capture?
Could that gay person, change community and not be persecuted? I know you are going to ask, ‘why should he change communities… he should have a right to live where he likes’. True. The same for me, but if I went to an all-white community in Alabama and wasn’t liked, hell, I would get out.
The point is gentlemen and ladies, it would be better if you properly informed yourself instead of running for a rope. Your own ignorance actually makes you as bigoted as the people you accuse.
Lets take a look at yourselves as Americans… and say Human rights Watch. HRW opposes capital punishment. What is one of the last bastions of capital punishment. The US of course. Jamaica, if I remember, hasnt executed anyone since the 1980′s. What is your record?
Time magazine and NY Times? Hmm didnt they claim wmds in Iraq?
Do you know which country has the highest prison population? No, you are shrouded by your ignorance? The US with 5% of the world’s population has 25 % of the world’s prison population.
Should I mention ‘dont ask dont tell’ as an entrenched philosophy of the last 3 US political administrations? Wasnt ‘gay marriage’ overwhelmingly rejected by the American public?
As for religion-fueled ignorance? Hmm. Which country outside of the mid-east has the highest % of religious fundamentalism not only in its people but in its people of power. “The land of the free and the home of the brave”.
So please don’t lecture me. You havent started to have the quality teaching on tolerance that I have.
boycott all you want we wont give in and we not gonna die….. we are too blessed… jus a ask y u’all dont boycott california they just turn back gay marriage , i thought all American love gays
David, the sins of the United States don’t excuse the sins of Jamaica. In fact, you seem to point to the United States in order to justify Jamaica’s violence, rather than to oppose it.
Furthermore, HRW is as critical of the United States as of any other nation.
Instead of shooting the messengers who warn of Jamaica’s high crime rate and police inaction, I recommend that you stop the violence and fix the police.
Mr Airhart. Please don’t further expose your inability for simple comprehension. I’m not using the sins of the US to justify Jamaica’s sins. I have quite plainly laid out my position and nothing there supports what you say.
I am simply pointing out to you that it might be wiser to focus on the problems in your country before rushing to create problems in another country that you have little knowledge or understanding of, and how you are led to your position by ignorance and arrogance.
I guess I was hoping that you had a bit more knowledge about your country. To go biblical on you, “He who is w/o sin, cast the first stone”.
Obviously you have little knowledge of HRW for you to make a statement as you have. Oftentimes, HRW is a political arm of the US state department. But you’d have to have some knowledge of the world to know that.
You are my friend, a pretty poor messenger. I have long known about Jamaica’s crime rate. This is another sign of your arrogance to think you can tell me more about a place of my birth and life when you probably have never even visited.
Though I have many powers, the power to singularly stop crime and fix the police in any country, isnt amongst them. Perhaps I should call in Batman.
Mr Airhart, I notice that you have carefully avoided the substance of what I have to say. That is not surprising. But strangely enough, we are not that much different. We both want to see a reduction of discrimation and crimes against homosexuals anywhere in the world. I just don’t like anyone arrogantly rushing to attack my country when they are not blessed with information.
“it might be wiser to focus on the problems in your country”
Actually, David, that’s not a bad suggestion at all.
The problem is American gay activists are too skurred to confront the anti-gay’s in the USA with their own horrifying past.
While Dobson, Perkins and others are running at the mouth, and have been for over 20 years, I’ve yet to see these few “christian leaders” confronted with their evildoings of the 1980′s, trying to have all gay citizens executed.
It’s a grim subject, but it’s worth rehashing, because most of the homosexuals from that era are either (a) dead, or (b) too old to be internet saavy.
David insinuates that Americans are minding their own business when they travel to Jamaica and give millions of dollars to antigay merchants or buy Jamaican products from antigay exporters. He further insinuates that gay tourists are minding their own business when they travel to Jamaica and are insulted or kicked out of establishments.
David believes that Americans are NOT minding their own business when they stay home and… mind their own business.
Jamaicans should focus on the problems in their own country instead of blaming American homosexuals for them.
Mr. Airhart:
Your argument fails all the time. David is so correct about your ignorance. He should probably also add dishonesty to describe you. Nowhere in David’s comments did he remotely suggest that the sins of the United States excuse the sins of Jamaica. Nor did he attempt to “point to the United States in order to justify Jamaica’s violence. . . .” Instead, he specifically stated that he is “shamed” of crime of any nature, including crimes against homosexuals, perpetrated in Jamaica.
Furthermore, he was contrasting a variety of situations to make the obvious point that America’s history and its present condition are definitely worse than the circumstance in Jamaica that you are attempting to sensationalize. Also, he was highlighting the gross hypocrisy of your position. I would even add that he was subtly conveying to you that you should probably refrain from throwing stones when you live in a glass house.
While David presented very factual and cogent arguments, you resorted to distortion. I am not surprised. If you can’t convince others with logical arguments, then resort to deceit and outright lies.
By the way, “Mr. Airhead” you should probably use your “free speech,” which you claim to value, to project more thoughtful discussion than to expose how devoid you are of substance.
David seems to imply that, as people can choose where they live, gay people are better off leaving Jamaica because “if I went to an all-white community in Alabama and wasn’t liked, hell, I would get out”.
A bit babyish to play the race card. The difference is that black people are not demonized by crazed religious nutcases and demented politicians. Furthermore, in America, including Alabama ALL people of whatever color and creed are protected by the constitution, with this lucid text from Thomas Jefferson:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
A shame you disgrace the memory of your gay friend by turning a blind eye to, and excusing lynch mobs, who have no protection at all from the law.
Be aware that we can also choose. We aren’t stopping you from producing rum or third-rate beer – we’re just making a decision to ‘get out’ of the habit of buying it, too.
all gays are dirty worthless piece of shitttt god hates u to death b***h Jamaica 4 life we are proud of our culture this is wat we believe in don’t try to change it u will get kill faggot go to hell ..i will forever love the land of food and water…there is no way u can ever change real Jamaicans god is the only one who can come and tell us to change till then go and kill your damn self
we jamaican shattas only like to f**k pussy an buss guns and live life
dont f**k with us u will die..dats not a warning
“all gays are dirty worthless piece of shitttt god hates u to death b***h”
I’m sure “god” appreciates you speaking for him.
Last time I checked, “god” doesn’t talk like a spoiled hoodrat.
Hey “defender,” go chill, toke on some ganja or something. lol
funny how these “straight” men are so obsessed with homosexuals. They probably think about homosexuals a LOT. at night. in bed.
TO Emily K, maybe your too ignorant to realise but the majority of Jamaicans don’t smoke ganja ,just like the majority of Jamaicans don’t beat and kill gay people.
Matthew Raine, I appreciate your nuanced perspective above. I welcome suggestions for change that do not require a boycott.
Marsh, most Jamaicans don’t beat and kill gay people — but they are not stopping others who do beat and kill, either.
Emily K, please refrain from assumptions about the nationality or lifestyle of other commenters.
It’s interesting that, except for “Badd,” none of Jamaica’s defenders on this page are posting from Jamaica. They are posting from Atlanta, New York, and the Netherlands. I’ll trust observers from Human Rights Watch and the New York Times who are in Jamaica, and who have spoken with and researched the victims of violence, before I trust antigay expatriates and non-Jamaicans who refuse to support any action to stop the violence.
Jamaica’s defenders have repeatedly tried to change the subject to other issues such as Iraq, or to disrupt discussion with foul language, instead of addressing their refusal to stop the violence and police inaction. Going forward, I will delete profane and off-topic remarks from the remainder of this page.
If you oppose constructive action to stop the violence, and/or you refuse to take action yourself to stop the violence, then you have had your say already — give it up.
Mr Airhart and Mr Adrian-T. Not only did you both miss the class on comprehension, you missed the entire year. However you made up by doubling on your classes in misinformation and distortion.
It really is difficult dialoguing with people with little comprehension or attention span. Let me address your points in order.
Mr Airhart, your first sentence is a complete mystery. I don’t even know what you are insinuating that I am insinuating. Garbled nonsense. I claimed directly or indirectly nothing in your first paragraph (April 2, 2:20pm).
Furthermore, again you make the error of tarring with a broad brush. Furthermore, without evidence and despite my figures which you have not attempted to dispute, you talk about “anti-gay merchants’ and “anti-gay exporters’. I’m sorry but when I looked in my Yellow pages, I saw neither of those occupations, though it is rumoured that the Jamaica Association of Anti-gay Merchants and Exporters was dissolved for lack of members. You must have a secret list that I’m not privy to. If you give the list to me, I also will try not to buy from these merchants.
By the way, when tourists come to Jamaica, they are not giving money… we are not a charity. We offer goods and services, they buy. It’ call capitalism.
Nowhere in anything I said indicated that I was blaming American homosexuals for Jamaica’ problems, but yes I agree that Jamaicans should focus on the problems in our country. Shouldn’t that also be “post-it’ for you? Please put that somewhere where you can always see it before hitting the keys.
Mr Adrian-T. Never suggested that Jamaicans, gay or otherwise leave Jamaica. Like every island larger than a square mile, Jamaica is made up of many communities, large and small. You might be surprised, wait for it…we have CITIES.
With over 4,000 sq miles of land space, I am apt to think that there are many communities. If I went to an “all white community in Alabama and wasn’t liked…’ well, it doesn’t mean that I should leave the US. There, I hope, would be lots of places more hospitable. The same applies to Jamaica.
Did I play the race card? Wow! New information, late breaking news, Mr T (by the way are you the famous Mr T?). Not all Jamaicans are black. I don’t know how you came to the conclusion. Perhaps the race card is in your head. Hmmm.
And there you go with the stereotyping. Crazed religious nutcases and demented politicians? Methinks you are more bigoted than any Jamaican you accuse.
“A shame you disgrace… of your gay friend by turning a blind eye”. Comprehension 101. You must take an evening class. Read again.
“… third-rate beer…” surely you didn’t go there Mr T? Are those gold chains too heavy for you? Too bright? Causing brain damage? Now I know that amongst other things, you seriously lack taste. Dismissed.
Mr Airhart, again. “… HRW and NY Times have observers in Jamaica…”. Let me let you on a little secret. Anytime there is a major flare-up in Jamaica, the foreign reporters find their way to Red Bones or some other bar in the safe upper St Andrew. Yet they report on facts they have not seen. I know, I have supplied them with “Film at 10″.
And just in case you were referring to posters like me as an “anti-gay expatriate…’ . Naah. Surely you have learned some comprehension by now.
“Jamaica’ defenders have repeatedly tried to change the subject to other issues such as Iraq, or to disrupt the discussion with foul language”… Well, I would agree with the bit about foul language. Neither side needs to be nasty. Nothing gets solved in a shouting match. However sir, it is you who refuse to deal with issues. Not one of my points (and most of the points by other “defenders’) has been challenged.
When you are faced with serious information, you choose to twist things to match your beliefs. You apparently, arrogantly think you are right. You arrogantly and ignorantly cast wide-sweeping accusations with no research and little basis in fact. You refer to Jamaica as anti-gay when any rational person would recognize that for that description to be apt, then over 50% of the Jamaican population of 2.6 million would have to be homophobic. Simple common sense would tell you of the unlikelihood of that. Simple research would shred your language and arguments for a boycott.
And since when is causing economic hardship on millions of innocent people, “constructive”?
Have I, and many others, taken “constructive action? I guess it depends on your definition of “constructive’. Granted, I have never tried to halt a rampaging mob. I, and many other Jamaicans have taken action to stop violence. You would have clearly seen that if you had comprehended what many of “Jamaica’ defenders’ have been saying.
Again, ignorance should not be the basis for decision-making… unless of course you are George Bush.
To quote Bob Marley (oh boy… now I’m dragging a dead man into this), “Emancipate yourself from mental slavery”. Ignorance is a form of mental slavery. Toodly-doo.
Why this focus on little Jamaica when even in America your own americans fight against gay rights and are against you guys? Also, it seems you don’t you don’t know what you’re talking about as I have met many GAY Jamaicans who have never been attacked and are living just fine. Seems like it’s propoganda by some american white media looking for someone to bully.
Good piece David. I have nothing else to add but to say that Michael and his buddies are outrageously ignorant. Because I write from New York, I am not Jamaican. I guess an American in any other country except America should not have an opinion about issues affecting America? That’s absurd!
By the way, Mr. Airhead, you better be careful. Jamaicans are everywhere and not all of them are as eloquent as David, or interested in sparring intellectually with anyone, especially someone hell-bent on wrecking their country. Some of them are on the fringes and might take matters into their own hands.
Mariah: Because Jamaica is exporting its violence.
Donovan: Thank you for proving my point, Donovan, regarding your lack of concern for antigay violence.