Wayne asserted that rhetoric from the right is dangerous and rhetoric from the left isn’t.

You and Emily asserted that I presented no evidence.

It is common knowledge that the abortion toll since Roe v. Wade is over 40 million innocent lives lost. Statistically, 4 million of them would have been LGBT. Contra your opinion, that is evidence.

Emily-

Asserting that I’ve justified the murder of abortion providers is an ad hominem attack (one of the most common non-rational appeals).

He “justified murder” therefore we can ignore him… That manner of argument indicates you’re uncomfortable dealing with facts.

For the record, I did not justify the killing of abortion providers.

I believe that killing abortion providers is as wrong as abortion.

I compared the death toll by left and right, to illustrate that Wayne’s assertion that leftist rhetoric is less dangerous than rightist rhetoric simply does not match reality.

1. 40 million+ dead at the hands of leftist abortionists.

2. Fewer than 100 dead at the hands of rightist anti-abortionists.

Your argument that abortion is “a legal act” is passing strange. Since when do you believe that something being legal equals something being right?

Anti-gay bias is legal in many jurisdictions but I believe you and I agree on this, just because anti-gay bias is legal, that doesn’t make it right.

Why do you, against all logic, make the opposite argument when we’re talking about the taking of innocent life?

Rick Brentlinger

And comparing 100 to 40 million is appalling coming from a “Christian.” As if the value of any human life (or partial-life, as we Jews see at the unborn) can really be measured. Since when can the value of the life of a human being be judged against one another? Rick is justifying the murder of grown human beings – an illegal act – because it “helped” stop a legal act that he doesn’t like very much (like it or not, that is what we are dealing with, illegal vs. legal). Just like all those Republicans got their panties in a knot because Clinton got a blow job from some fat chick. Please. Dubya murdered, tortured, lied, and in some cases, made decisions based on batsh¬°t insane delusions. The sworn defender of the Constitution of the USA called it “a damn piece of paper.”

OH, don’t get me wrong. I’m a Centrist. I believe that the bipartisan system we have is nothing but two sides of the same coin.

I just don’t see a lot of Unitarians shooting people up.

You have offered no real facts in your comment, so I’m not sure what one can materially respond to. In short, you’re right, you’re spit-balling — and it’s because of spit-balling by self-righteous partisans that the abortion and most other pressing issues of our day are never resolved.

Wayne Besen: “There is no equivalent on the left, of the right wing machine that spews venom and hate”

Wayne Besen: “If you haven’t noticed, the extreme right is getting dangerously delirious.”

The “dangerously delirious” activity you decry is in fact, more from the left than from the right and has already killed more than 4 million people in the GLBT community.

Wayne Besen: “There is simply no secular equivalent to the 9-11 fanatics or the extremist who murdered abortion provider George Tiller in Kansas… so many abortion providers are murdered and their clinics bombed”

Are you comparing the 19 Muslims who killed 3000+ people on 9-11-2001 with conservative Christians? Really?

When dealing with folks who “caused untold misery across the world” certainly a reasonable person can question which has caused the most misery – stopping tens of millions of beating hearts via abortion or stopping fewer than 100 beating hearts in an effort to stop abortion.

Wayne Besen: “But let’ not pretend such irresponsible words and behavior does not have casualties and consequences.” (Your article).

Wayne Besen: “The vitriol and violence preached on left and right just can’t be compared.” (Your reply to me).

When we talk about irresponsible words and behavior, vitriol and violence, I’m no statistician but I’m fairly certain 40 million vs less than 100 indicates significant disparity and eloquently testifies to the fact that irresponsible words, behavior and violence from the left far overshadows violence from the right.

10% of the human race is GLBT, correct?

Then in the United States alone, the abortion industry since 1973 (abortion businesses are not owned by conservative Christians, by the way), has eliminated 4 million GLBTs (10% of 40 million).

Can we agree that those are some pretty dramatic consequences for words and behavior?

Wayne Besen: “The left also would never try to bring down a president for oral sex.”

I’m just spit-balling here but if memory serves, the problem which precipitated Clinton’s impeachment was the coverup – Clinton’s perjury – lying to a federal judge, a crime to which former President Clinton pled guilty, for which he paid a large fine and for which he surrendered his law license.

Rick Brentlinger

There is no equivalent on the left, of the right wing machine that spews venom and hate. It is well-funded, well-oiled and exploits the most ignorant people and encourages them to work against their own economic and social interests.

What we have seen at these town brawl meetings is unprecedented. Basically, we have AstroTurf Republican operatives posing as “grassroots citizens” and deliberately feeding false information in an attempt to rile up people who are not terribly well-informed.

And, I know you may not like to hear this – but the religious element makes it exponentially more dangerous. Inciting ill-informed people who worship guns and an angry God are a volatile mix that has caused untold misery across the world.

There is simply no secular equivalent to the 9-11 fanatics or the extremist who murdered abortion provider George Tiller in Kansas. So, I reject the equivalence you have drawn.

Not all leaders on the left are good or honest people.(In fact many politicians across the board are corrupt) But, you will not find too many on the left who pander to our worst instincts like Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin. These are dangerous demagogues who bring out the worst in people – such as their anti-gay, anti-immigrant rhetoric.

Rick – the way you interpret Jesus may enhance your life and inspire people around you. Your religion surely has no resemblance to the people who carry out dastardly acts.

But, let’s not ignore that people who pray to a bitter and avenging version of Jesus (or any other deity) can pose a special threat to peace and stability.

Perhaps, this is why so many abortion providers are murdered and their clinics bombed – while I can’t recall any televangelists suffering a similar fate.

The left also would never try to bring down a president for oral sex. The impeachment of Bill Clinton was about the most unpatriotic act I’ve seen in my lifetime. It was disgraceful and an attempt to overthrow an elected president. I still hold each House impeachment manager in high contempt. I also find the Bush election over Gore and the intimidation tactics used in Florida by Republicans during the recount to be criminal thuggery.

The vitriol and violence preached on left and right just can’t be compared.

I appreciate your finely honed dislike of hypocrisy and think much of what you post is spot on.

That said, as a conservative gay Christian, I find Frankie Schaeffer’s words on Rachel Maddow’s show, reprehensible.

The left often referred to President Bush 43 as Hitler. Senator Dick Durbin referred to American military interrogators in Iraq as Nazi-like and compared them to the murderous Pol Pot regime.

Yet I don’t recall Frankie Schaeffer, Rachel Maddow or TWO posting videos of Democrats saying that and opining:

“its only a matter of time before people get hurt.”

I may not be in the majority on this but I’d have an easier time viewing your reporting as measured and proportionate if you and others would get as exercised at liberals using pejorative language as you get at conservatives.

Are you equally against “partisan “patriots”" [on the left] “manufacturing mayhem and damaging democracy?”

Selective outrage on issues like this is simply unbecoming.

Rick Brentlinger

It’s the parties of god interfering in politics who have caused the mess in the middle east in the first place, whether it’s been fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell supporting Jewish extremists in Palestine, and making Israel irreconcilable. Or Iraqi Muslims mass-murdering other muslims on a daily basis.

Keep them all out!

How does shouting down to stop the conversation of the healthcare debate at town hall meetings, endears them to anyone. Especially when the organizations that are telling them where to go and what to do and say are Republicans political operatives, not real grassroots. How does shouting someone down or chasing them out like a “lynch mob” advanced the debate, it does not. So I think the American people will see through all of this and know, like the teabagger, the birthers, these lynch mobs types AKA “screamers” are just the same, people who have to resort to these tactics because they have no leadership to articulate what they real want. It’ easy to pickup a bus load of people who hate, and that’ all I been seeing, they hate and can’t debate. Too bad.