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	<title>Comments on: Statement Of Conscience: Just Give Us The Money</title>
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	<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/</link>
	<description>TruthWinsOut.org is a non-profit organization that counters right wing propaganda, exposes the “ex-gay” myth and educates America about gay life.</description>
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		<title>By: Merlyn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14719</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14719</guid>
		<description>I guess there is no edit thing on here, but I wanted to say thanks and I wish you the best in getting these people to take their names off of this document. BTW, it would be interesting to know how many of the Orthodox signatories are themselves GLBTQ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess there is no edit thing on here, but I wanted to say thanks and I wish you the best in getting these people to take their names off of this document. BTW, it would be interesting to know how many of the Orthodox signatories are themselves GLBTQ.</p>
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		<title>By: Merlyn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14718</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14718</guid>
		<description>Hi George. It would indeed be interesting. I am trying to run the rumour down, but I understand that Met. Jonah of the OCA signed. Given their notable abscence in other activist causes, I find it interesting that they can get all fired up over this. I guess things like single payer insurance and AIDS and anti-war work are a bit too far afield. This was my big beef with them when I was still in monastic life--I always felt as if people wondered about me because I did AIDS nursing. It was like, &quot;How noble. But don&#039;t sit too close to me. I don&#039;t want to catch it.&quot; Seriously. I ran into some of the most incredibly homophobic individuals in Orthodoxy that I have ever met--anywhere.

I suspect they want to get high-profile in this whole anti-abortion/anti-marriage equality thing because most converts over the past few years have been Anglicans who are upset at the Episcopal Church&#039;s having come into the 21st Century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi George. It would indeed be interesting. I am trying to run the rumour down, but I understand that Met. Jonah of the OCA signed. Given their notable abscence in other activist causes, I find it interesting that they can get all fired up over this. I guess things like single payer insurance and AIDS and anti-war work are a bit too far afield. This was my big beef with them when I was still in monastic life&#8211;I always felt as if people wondered about me because I did AIDS nursing. It was like, &#8220;How noble. But don&#8217;t sit too close to me. I don&#8217;t want to catch it.&#8221; Seriously. I ran into some of the most incredibly homophobic individuals in Orthodoxy that I have ever met&#8211;anywhere.</p>
<p>I suspect they want to get high-profile in this whole anti-abortion/anti-marriage equality thing because most converts over the past few years have been Anglicans who are upset at the Episcopal Church&#8217;s having come into the 21st Century.</p>
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		<title>By: George Plagianos</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14706</link>
		<dc:creator>George Plagianos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14706</guid>
		<description>The folks at AXIOS the Eastern Orthodox LGBT Christian organization would like to see the list of clergy namily the Orthodox Christian sign-ons to this &quot;Manhattan.....&quot; document. It&#039;s sort of strange the Eastern Orthodox clergy if that&#039;s what your refering  to when you see Orhodox clergy usaully do&#039;t take a activists stand on issues. They only recently came out of the closet (about 10 ten years ago)&amp; started attending these pro life rallies and on gay marriage. I like to see many of their asses at these so few anti war demo&#039;s or doing AIDS work, or stand up againist hate crimes, or even stand up &amp; be counted for single payer. Though many of our church leaders would forcus on personal spritiual issues they can&#039;t just put their heads in the sand and ignor these other needs just outside their door. He we know those who do all these things but dam there aren&#039;t evough of them.   So to close this please send us the  info or link to this document and their sign ons to me at: georplagian@cs.com. We&#039;ll do our best to have them take off their names.   Thanks again for posting this, Sincerely, Geoege Plagianos at AXIOS in NYC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The folks at AXIOS the Eastern Orthodox LGBT Christian organization would like to see the list of clergy namily the Orthodox Christian sign-ons to this &#8220;Manhattan&#8230;..&#8221; document. It&#8217;s sort of strange the Eastern Orthodox clergy if that&#8217;s what your refering  to when you see Orhodox clergy usaully do&#8217;t take a activists stand on issues. They only recently came out of the closet (about 10 ten years ago)&amp; started attending these pro life rallies and on gay marriage. I like to see many of their asses at these so few anti war demo&#8217;s or doing AIDS work, or stand up againist hate crimes, or even stand up &amp; be counted for single payer. Though many of our church leaders would forcus on personal spritiual issues they can&#8217;t just put their heads in the sand and ignor these other needs just outside their door. He we know those who do all these things but dam there aren&#8217;t evough of them.   So to close this please send us the  info or link to this document and their sign ons to me at: <a href="mailto:georplagian@cs.com">georplagian@cs.com</a>. We&#8217;ll do our best to have them take off their names.   Thanks again for posting this, Sincerely, Geoege Plagianos at AXIOS in NYC</p>
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		<title>By: Religious Right is Demanding Special Rights &#171; Women Born Transsexual</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14703</link>
		<dc:creator>Religious Right is Demanding Special Rights &#171; Women Born Transsexual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14703</guid>
		<description>[...] their ivory tower aloofness from the same civil laws we heathens must observe. complete at:   http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/ orhttp://tinyurl.com/y93k8el  EXCERPT:  This would be the same Catholic church that recently [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] their ivory tower aloofness from the same civil laws we heathens must observe. complete at:   <a href="http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/</a> orhttp://tinyurl.com/y93k8el  EXCERPT:  This would be the same Catholic church that recently [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14702</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14702</guid>
		<description>Tristero has a great take on this over at Digby&#039;s place.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/christianist-manifesto-partial-fisking.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tristero has a great take on this over at Digby&#8217;s place.</p>
<p><a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/christianist-manifesto-partial-fisking.html" rel="nofollow">http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/christianist-manifesto-partial-fisking.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: LawsLuvr</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14696</link>
		<dc:creator>LawsLuvr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14696</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see now, exactly how many people have been forced out of the military? And how many are active or affiliated with the SLDN.org? Many thousands? Is that enough for a militia, to help provide for &quot;our common defense&quot;? Because if neither Republicans nor Democrats have any real interest as Reps/Senators or Parties to strenuously and continuously speak out and speak AGAINST our own religious extremism... oops, excuse me: I mean christian supremacists.. then we may eventually have no other way to protect ourselves. I agree with Merlyn, their words and ideas are both hypocritical and dangerous. But, historically, especially as related to Catholicism, THEY ARE NOT UNPRECEDENTED. The Catholic Church organizationally has never, in thousands of years, had a problem using threats, violence and war to backup their claims of heavenly authority.

&quot;Bishop&quot; Harry Jackson promised this campaign to be &quot;the armageddon of the marriage battle...&quot; and he is keeping his promise. And all that our gov&#039;t is promising us is to investigate hate crimes: AFTER our friends have been burned, stabbed, shot, decapitated and dismembered. That is grossly inadequate, on a scale of 1/10 the action needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see now, exactly how many people have been forced out of the military? And how many are active or affiliated with the SLDN.org? Many thousands? Is that enough for a militia, to help provide for &#8220;our common defense&#8221;? Because if neither Republicans nor Democrats have any real interest as Reps/Senators or Parties to strenuously and continuously speak out and speak AGAINST our own religious extremism&#8230; oops, excuse me: I mean christian supremacists.. then we may eventually have no other way to protect ourselves. I agree with Merlyn, their words and ideas are both hypocritical and dangerous. But, historically, especially as related to Catholicism, THEY ARE NOT UNPRECEDENTED. The Catholic Church organizationally has never, in thousands of years, had a problem using threats, violence and war to backup their claims of heavenly authority.</p>
<p>&#8220;Bishop&#8221; Harry Jackson promised this campaign to be &#8220;the armageddon of the marriage battle&#8230;&#8221; and he is keeping his promise. And all that our gov&#8217;t is promising us is to investigate hate crimes: AFTER our friends have been burned, stabbed, shot, decapitated and dismembered. That is grossly inadequate, on a scale of 1/10 the action needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Merlyn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14685</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14685</guid>
		<description>This shows them for what they are: bigots (not that we haven&#039;t known that all along). This is indeed a lawless and dangerous declaration. Everyone is supposed to obey the law except Christians and other fundies if they happen to not feel like it. 

Yes, Wayne it certainly looks like they want special rights, amongst them the right to discriminate. I personally don&#039;t give a damn what they want to believe---fine, whatever. But when they want to use that belief to opress me as well as the rest of the GLBTQ community, that is too much.

No one has said the fundies can&#039;t believe their nonsense, but they have no right to foist it on the rest of us. I guess I should have expected something like this. These people are fanatics and will stop at nothing. And here&#039;s the irony: the fundies and the Catholic fundies are using each other: the Catholics consider the Protestants to be heretics and many fundies consider the Church of Rome to be little better than Paganism with a thin Christian veneer. Hopefully this unholy alliance will eventually fall apart.

I am saying flat out, fellow-GLBTQ&#039;ers: this is yet another step towards building anger and resisitance which could lead to violence against GLBTQ&#039;ers. These people are not the pacifists that they claim to be--and never have been. I read this thing and got a chill down my spine: it would take very little to set these people off, thinking they are called to &quot;kill a queer for Christ&quot;. Calls for this are already being made in the more radical Evangelical communities, such as a minister in the Phoenix area who is bluntly saying that GLBTQ people ought to be executed.

The point made by Wayne is correct: if you take government money, you are not allowed to discriminate. Against anyone. Period. If all these Catholics and other fundies want to discriminate, then go right ahead--BUT GIVE UP THE TAX BREAKS AND FEDERAL FUNDING. This is a clear-cut case of wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. These people are hypocrites and dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This shows them for what they are: bigots (not that we haven&#8217;t known that all along). This is indeed a lawless and dangerous declaration. Everyone is supposed to obey the law except Christians and other fundies if they happen to not feel like it. </p>
<p>Yes, Wayne it certainly looks like they want special rights, amongst them the right to discriminate. I personally don&#8217;t give a damn what they want to believe&#8212;fine, whatever. But when they want to use that belief to opress me as well as the rest of the GLBTQ community, that is too much.</p>
<p>No one has said the fundies can&#8217;t believe their nonsense, but they have no right to foist it on the rest of us. I guess I should have expected something like this. These people are fanatics and will stop at nothing. And here&#8217;s the irony: the fundies and the Catholic fundies are using each other: the Catholics consider the Protestants to be heretics and many fundies consider the Church of Rome to be little better than Paganism with a thin Christian veneer. Hopefully this unholy alliance will eventually fall apart.</p>
<p>I am saying flat out, fellow-GLBTQ&#8217;ers: this is yet another step towards building anger and resisitance which could lead to violence against GLBTQ&#8217;ers. These people are not the pacifists that they claim to be&#8211;and never have been. I read this thing and got a chill down my spine: it would take very little to set these people off, thinking they are called to &#8220;kill a queer for Christ&#8221;. Calls for this are already being made in the more radical Evangelical communities, such as a minister in the Phoenix area who is bluntly saying that GLBTQ people ought to be executed.</p>
<p>The point made by Wayne is correct: if you take government money, you are not allowed to discriminate. Against anyone. Period. If all these Catholics and other fundies want to discriminate, then go right ahead&#8211;BUT GIVE UP THE TAX BREAKS AND FEDERAL FUNDING. This is a clear-cut case of wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. These people are hypocrites and dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14682</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14682</guid>
		<description>Funny how they keep screaming that we want &quot;special rights&quot; when it is they who have them, and want even more of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how they keep screaming that we want &#8220;special rights&#8221; when it is they who have them, and want even more of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Besen</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14681</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Besen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14681</guid>
		<description>It sure does appear that they want special rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sure does appear that they want special rights.</p>
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		<title>By: LawsLuvr</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4893/comment-page-1/#comment-14680</link>
		<dc:creator>LawsLuvr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4893#comment-14680</guid>
		<description>Well good, looks like us gay-guys and gay-gals can keep sitting on our a**. The people of the &quot;good&quot; books will be the ones staging the sit-ins and getting arrested for civil disobedience. Unless of course it turns out they don&#039;t have anything to really protest... First they dismantled the &quot;welfare state&quot;, so we&#039;ll dismantle the &quot;religious welfare state&quot;. That&#039;s what tax-free addiction and &quot;special rights&quot; will get ya: cold-turkey withdrawls. Chuck musta seen some of that while in prison. I&#039;m sure that&#039;s not all he saw...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well good, looks like us gay-guys and gay-gals can keep sitting on our a**. The people of the &#8220;good&#8221; books will be the ones staging the sit-ins and getting arrested for civil disobedience. Unless of course it turns out they don&#8217;t have anything to really protest&#8230; First they dismantled the &#8220;welfare state&#8221;, so we&#8217;ll dismantle the &#8220;religious welfare state&#8221;. That&#8217;s what tax-free addiction and &#8220;special rights&#8221; will get ya: cold-turkey withdrawls. Chuck musta seen some of that while in prison. I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s not all he saw&#8230;</p>
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