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	<title>Comments on: The New GLBT Pope Problem</title>
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	<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/</link>
	<description>Fighting antigay lies and the ex-gay myth</description>
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		<title>By: Catholics Launch Black Ops in Support of Homo-Gay Agenda &#124; ChristWire</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-36617</link>
		<dc:creator>Catholics Launch Black Ops in Support of Homo-Gay Agenda &#124; ChristWire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] by the Church. Inspection of the site finds this telling entry on a discussion forum entitled “The New GLBT Pope Problem” &#8211; see comment 12. “Even the Vatican is smart enough not to hitch itself to a literal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by the Church. Inspection of the site finds this telling entry on a discussion forum entitled “The New GLBT Pope Problem” &#8211; see comment 12. “Even the Vatican is smart enough not to hitch itself to a literal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Wins Out - Top 10 Ex-Gay-Related Events of 2009</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15699</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Wins Out - Top 10 Ex-Gay-Related Events of 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15699</guid>
		<description>[...] ** The Catholic Church&#8217;s increased involvement with Anti/Ex-Gay Activity  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ** The Catholic Church&#8217;s increased involvement with Anti/Ex-Gay Activity  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert, NYC</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15231</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert, NYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Priya Lynn, you made the point for me in responding to William regarding the portability issue.   Another thing that William fails to understand is that civil partnerships and the hodge podge of other forms of same sex unions across the EU are not identical and are not recognised by many of the member states.  Take the French model, PACs for example that offer less than half of the rights found in civil partnerships.  How on earth could a British gay partnered couple expect to have all of their rights recongised if for some reason they moved to France?  It would mean they would have to remain permanently in the UK to enjoy those rights.  

I&#039;d like to ask William why Portugal is now considering same-sex marriage and not civil partnerships?  Why did any of the current seven countries upgrade to full marriage equality instead of accepting the lesser form of civil unions or partnerships?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya Lynn, you made the point for me in responding to William regarding the portability issue.   Another thing that William fails to understand is that civil partnerships and the hodge podge of other forms of same sex unions across the EU are not identical and are not recognised by many of the member states.  Take the French model, PACs for example that offer less than half of the rights found in civil partnerships.  How on earth could a British gay partnered couple expect to have all of their rights recongised if for some reason they moved to France?  It would mean they would have to remain permanently in the UK to enjoy those rights.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to ask William why Portugal is now considering same-sex marriage and not civil partnerships?  Why did any of the current seven countries upgrade to full marriage equality instead of accepting the lesser form of civil unions or partnerships?</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15112</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15112</guid>
		<description>William, if you have a gay marriage in Spain, it is portable if you move to Canada, the Netherlands, or Massachusetts.

William, why do you think its a good idea to distinguish a gay relationship from a straight relationship?  What is different of any significance than the gender of the participants (which is not an important difference at all)?  Once you create two seperate institutions you create the likelihood that they will be treated differently, one as less than the other.  Your argument is akin to saying we should have seperate educational institutions for men and women, because they&#039;re different.  That opens up the institution to abuse to treating them as something other than equals.  We should never treat people as something other than equals unless there is damn good reason to do so, and you&#039;ve presented no pressing reason why gay relationships should be treated differently than straight relationships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, if you have a gay marriage in Spain, it is portable if you move to Canada, the Netherlands, or Massachusetts.</p>
<p>William, why do you think its a good idea to distinguish a gay relationship from a straight relationship?  What is different of any significance than the gender of the participants (which is not an important difference at all)?  Once you create two seperate institutions you create the likelihood that they will be treated differently, one as less than the other.  Your argument is akin to saying we should have seperate educational institutions for men and women, because they&#8217;re different.  That opens up the institution to abuse to treating them as something other than equals.  We should never treat people as something other than equals unless there is damn good reason to do so, and you&#8217;ve presented no pressing reason why gay relationships should be treated differently than straight relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Hurst</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15110</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Hurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15110</guid>
		<description>So William, you&#039;re basically saying this:

&quot;Having separate drinking fountains for blacks and whites isn&#039;t unequal, because they both get water!  From a fountain!  But they&#039;re different!  Because different is beautiful!&quot;

It has nothing to do with &quot;being different.&quot;  Everybody is &quot;different.&quot;  We all have different DNA.  It&#039;s not a good argument for satisfying the Equal Protection clause in the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So William, you&#8217;re basically saying this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Having separate drinking fountains for blacks and whites isn&#8217;t unequal, because they both get water!  From a fountain!  But they&#8217;re different!  Because different is beautiful!&#8221;</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with &#8220;being different.&#8221;  Everybody is &#8220;different.&#8221;  We all have different DNA.  It&#8217;s not a good argument for satisfying the Equal Protection clause in the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15105</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15105</guid>
		<description>I see your point, Robert, but I remain unconvinced. You say that civil partnerships &quot;carry NO portability once you leave the UK.&quot; Is the situation not similar as regards gay marriage? If you contract a gay marriage in, for example, Spain or the Netherlands, is it recognized if you move to a country like Italy, Poland or Lithuania -- not to speak of the situation if you move outside Europe? I don&#039;t know the answer for certain, but I strongly suspect that it&#039; &quot;no&quot;.

If civil partnerships are so equal, you ask, why can&#039;t straights enter into them, if they choose not to want marriage? Why should they want to, unless it&#039; to pretend that their relationship is the same as a gay relationship -- which it&#039; not? And I can&#039;t see any more point in that than in a gay couple wanting to pretend that their relationship is the same as a straight one -- which it&#039; not. 

Priya says: &quot;If civil partnerships were the equivalent of marriage there&#039;d be no point in having a separate name for them. They are called something different precisely because they are different, as in lesser.&quot; I agree that they are called something different because they are different, but I can&#039;t agree that &quot;different&quot; means or implies &quot;lesser&quot;. I LIKE difference. I don&#039;t want everyone to be exactly the same. (Even those who think that they would like drab uniformity would, I&#039;m sure, repent if their wish were ever granted.) I don&#039;t want my Jewish or atheist friends to be Christian, my straight friends to be gay, my black friends to be white etc. 

As the psychiatrist Thomas Szasz observed, to argue for the acceptance of a minority on the grounds that it resembles the majority amounts to a denial of the minority&#039; right to be different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, Robert, but I remain unconvinced. You say that civil partnerships &#8220;carry NO portability once you leave the UK.&#8221; Is the situation not similar as regards gay marriage? If you contract a gay marriage in, for example, Spain or the Netherlands, is it recognized if you move to a country like Italy, Poland or Lithuania &#8212; not to speak of the situation if you move outside Europe? I don&#8217;t know the answer for certain, but I strongly suspect that it&#8217; &#8220;no&#8221;.</p>
<p>If civil partnerships are so equal, you ask, why can&#8217;t straights enter into them, if they choose not to want marriage? Why should they want to, unless it&#8217; to pretend that their relationship is the same as a gay relationship &#8212; which it&#8217; not? And I can&#8217;t see any more point in that than in a gay couple wanting to pretend that their relationship is the same as a straight one &#8212; which it&#8217; not. </p>
<p>Priya says: &#8220;If civil partnerships were the equivalent of marriage there&#8217;d be no point in having a separate name for them. They are called something different precisely because they are different, as in lesser.&#8221; I agree that they are called something different because they are different, but I can&#8217;t agree that &#8220;different&#8221; means or implies &#8220;lesser&#8221;. I LIKE difference. I don&#8217;t want everyone to be exactly the same. (Even those who think that they would like drab uniformity would, I&#8217;m sure, repent if their wish were ever granted.) I don&#8217;t want my Jewish or atheist friends to be Christian, my straight friends to be gay, my black friends to be white etc. </p>
<p>As the psychiatrist Thomas Szasz observed, to argue for the acceptance of a minority on the grounds that it resembles the majority amounts to a denial of the minority&#8217; right to be different.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15096</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15096</guid>
		<description>Excellent point Robert.  If civil partnerships were the equivalent of marriage there&#039;d be no point in having a seperate name for them.  They are called something different precisely because they are different, as in lesser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point Robert.  If civil partnerships were the equivalent of marriage there&#8217;d be no point in having a seperate name for them.  They are called something different precisely because they are different, as in lesser.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert, NYC</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15094</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert, NYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sam, civil marriage is NOT religious marriage, the two are totally different.  Further, the state owns marriage when it issues marriage licenses, not religious cults.  Religion doesn&#039;t own marriage, not did it invent it. Various forms of it existed long before the abrahamic cults came along and manipulated it to suit its agenda.

How would you like it if we sought a ban on religious marriages based on the premise that secular state governments issue only licenses for civil marriages?  How would you like that? 


William, civil partnerships don&#039;t convey every single right of marriage, although most of them are conferred. They are second rate and carry NO portability once you leave the UK.  If they&#039;re so equal, why can&#039;t straights enter into them, if they choose not to want marriage?  I don&#039;t believe in legal segregation which is what these partnerships are about and have absolutely NOTHING to do with full equality.  Why do you think more countries are turning to same-sex marriage, seven so far and five American states, possibly six if the District of Columbia gets on board shortly?  Civil Partnerships/unions will NEVER be the gold standard anywhere on this planet nor internationally recognized either.  They are progressive in the short term, but incredibly regressive in the longer term if you look at the bigger picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, civil marriage is NOT religious marriage, the two are totally different.  Further, the state owns marriage when it issues marriage licenses, not religious cults.  Religion doesn&#8217;t own marriage, not did it invent it. Various forms of it existed long before the abrahamic cults came along and manipulated it to suit its agenda.</p>
<p>How would you like it if we sought a ban on religious marriages based on the premise that secular state governments issue only licenses for civil marriages?  How would you like that? </p>
<p>William, civil partnerships don&#8217;t convey every single right of marriage, although most of them are conferred. They are second rate and carry NO portability once you leave the UK.  If they&#8217;re so equal, why can&#8217;t straights enter into them, if they choose not to want marriage?  I don&#8217;t believe in legal segregation which is what these partnerships are about and have absolutely NOTHING to do with full equality.  Why do you think more countries are turning to same-sex marriage, seven so far and five American states, possibly six if the District of Columbia gets on board shortly?  Civil Partnerships/unions will NEVER be the gold standard anywhere on this planet nor internationally recognized either.  They are progressive in the short term, but incredibly regressive in the longer term if you look at the bigger picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15054</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15054</guid>
		<description>Sam said &quot;People who have a religious faith, should live out their faith in the public square&quot;.

No they shouldn&#039;t sam, that goes directly against your bible:

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


You&#039;re welcome to live your life as you choose, but its immoral for you to attempt to dictate to anyone else how to live their&#039;s when they  aren&#039;t harming you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam said &#8220;People who have a religious faith, should live out their faith in the public square&#8221;.</p>
<p>No they shouldn&#8217;t sam, that goes directly against your bible:</p>
<p>Matthew 6:6<br />
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to live your life as you choose, but its immoral for you to attempt to dictate to anyone else how to live their&#8217;s when they  aren&#8217;t harming you.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2009/11/4953/comment-page-1/#comment-15053</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=4953#comment-15053</guid>
		<description>Yes, Priya, thank you for reminding us about that as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Priya, thank you for reminding us about that as well.</p>
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