“Ex-gay” activist Debbie Thurman provided an update tonight, via Facebook support group, regarding fellow ex-gay activist Lisa Miller‘s five-year bid to flout federal and state laws which protect children from exploitation and kidnapping by deadbeat and non-custodial parents.
Thurman said:
We have news to report from both Vermont and Virginia. First, Judge Cohen did not grant the requested stay of the Jan. 1 transfer of custody. Second, the Virginia Court of Appeals has asked for Liberty Counsel to file a supplemental brief by Jan. 4. The court will respond to the brief by Jan. 18. There will be no ruling on the latest appeal until after that.
As things stand, Miller — who for five years has violated Vermont family-court rulings that she must share visitation rights over her daughter — is required on Jan. 1 to turn over daughter Isabella to former partner Janet Jenkins, due to Miller’s refusal to obey previous court rulings.
Miller’s attorneys at the Christian Right’s Liberty Counsel view the case as an opportunity to turn U.S. states’ family courts against one another, allowing culturally fundamentalist states such as Virginia to disregard the rightful jurisdiction of other states (as well as the religious freedom of co-parents and children) and harbor people who claim that Jesus gives them special permission to be deadbeat parents.
Since Miller remains unwilling to comply with the courts of either Virginia or Vermont, we can expect more unfortunate drama in this case in mid-January.
Meantime, Thurman tonight offered a sickening dose of false piety: Sympathetic “Christmas” prayers for those who exploit Isabella, and cold silence to those who value child welfare and the rule of law.
excuse me, but it seems to me that as isabella’s
biological mother, lisa miller should have
custody, it is a travesty of justice that she
is being forced to give up custody of her
daughter to someone who is not biologically related.
i cannot believe that you people think that
she shouod lose her daughter, may sanity and reason prevail and this travesty be reversed
Excuse me, but it seems to me that the two women set out to raise the child together and Lisa Miller doesn’t seem to know how to obey the law. Apparently she also thinks her newfound self-hatred/bigotry gives her license to break the law. Survey says “Too bad, champ!”
What a crying joke the far right has become! They are a testament to the lack of civics education in this country and to the folly of seeking moral guidance from corrupt windsocks who value ideological purity more than education, justice and good sense.
Why brad continues to hang out at a gay blog is beyond me. He’s obviously not changing minds OR opening hearts. Maybe this is the only way he gets to hang around gays without feeling guilty about it. Don’t feed the troll, pl0x!
I would like very much for Brad to:
1. Defend the supposed right of a lesbian biological mother to violate court rulings and deny visitation to a Christian Right father or stepparent.
2. Identify himself. Ex-gay activist? Member of a particular political or religious organization?
3. Condemn the criminalization of same-sex attraction and fight every effort to bully, imprison, brainwash, or execute LGBT people.
4. Explain why Lisa Miller deserves special consideration or sympathy for misleading the public about her supposed past as a lesbian. (She wasn’t a lesbian. By her own account, she wasn’t sexually attracted to Janet.)
Why do radical anti-gay activists (and some bisexuals masquerading as “ex-gays”) feel they have the special right to disobey our nation’s laws? If they don’t like the laws here and don’t want to obey them, they should move to Iran where they can live happily under a theocracy since that is what they want to impose on the rest of us Americans.
to answer michael airhart’s points
1.in todays climate, the lesbian mother would
probably win(there has been one case already
where a judge has ordered a mother(in a lesbian
custody case) to not take her child to her
“fundamentalist church”
2. I have identified myself, i am not ex-gay
nor am i an ex-gay activist, nor am i a member
of any political or religeous organization,
i am just a christian defending biblical truth
and upholding what the christian church has believed
and taught for the past 2000 years
3. I do condemn criminalization of homosexual
attraction,etc. but it perfectly legitimate
to to oppose homosexuality from a biblical
moral standpoint
“4. Explain why Lisa Miller deserves special consideration or sympathy for misleading the public about her supposed past as a lesbian. (She wasn’t a lesbian. By her own account, she wasn’t sexually attracted to Janet.)”
Ah, then this isn’t about gay rights. It’s about a “marriage” which had no grounds in the first place to be one. By the way, when did Lisa Miller ever make a public declaration that she was a lesbian? She declared she wanted to be in a solemnized relationship with another woman. But those vows are broken all the time, unfortunately. Are we upset about that? It’s OK to break marriage or civil union vows but not to disobey an unlawful law, legislated by an activist judge? Virginia sees it one way, Vermont another. Who will judge?
Brad said “i am just a christian defending biblical truth”. “Biblical truth” is a code word for bulls**t.
Brad said “it perfectly legitimate
to to oppose homosexuality from a biblical
moral standpoint”. “Biblical moral” is a code word for irrational.
Debbie said “Ah, then this isn’t about gay rights. It’ about a “marriage” which had no grounds in the first place to be one.”.
You have no authority to determine who has the right to be married. People have a moral right to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t hurting others. This marriage have every grounds to be one in the first place.
The fact that Lisa Miller was the child’s biological mother is irrelevant. An adoptive mother is every bit as valuable as a biological mother, such families are in no way lesser than biological ones, what matters is love, caring, and the day to day committment to raising a child in a healthy way. What matters here is who the child is best off with and Miller by her attempts to poison the child’s mind and deny her access to her other mother has demonstrated herself to be an unfit parent. By all that is good and right the child must be ceded to Jenkins.
Debbie:
Thanks for proving our point. You are promoting lawlessness and anarchy to support your worldview.
You say: “By the way, when did Lisa Miller ever make a public declaration that she was a lesbian?”
One does not have to make a public declaration of sexual orientation. I have made one as an activist. My partner has not, as he is a private citizen. However, the fact we share a bed and life, much like Janet and Lisa did makes it obvious we are a couple. Even more so if we went ahead and go married, registered as domestic partners or got a civil union.
The fact it, Lisa Miller is a lousy parent whose selfishness, arrogance, and brazen disregard for the law will likely leave lasting psychological scars on the child.
So much for family values.
Exactly, Wayne.
Lisa’s behavior throughout this years-long fight has shown her to be an irresponsible citizen, easily led by people who don’t care for her as a person, but who wish to use her as a pawn in their little cultural game, and her continued petulance has obviously been a factor in the courts ruling against her. She’s an unfit parent, pure and simple.
Civil disobedience is precisely that: disobedience of civil authority. And when you engage in civil disobedience, regardless whether you think your cause is just, you do not get some kind of exemption from the civil penalty that comes from disobeying law. Henry David Thoreau and Martin Luther King Jr., remember, both went to jail for their beliefs. After engaging in civil disobedience, they didn’t then whine about suffering the prescribed penalty for breaking the law.
Rather than acquiesce in court-ordered visitation by her ex-spouse, Lisa Miller chose to flee the jurisdiction, flout court orders, and engage in civil disobedience. When she made that choice, she effectively put her continued status as a custodial parent on a roulette board. She gambled, and she lost. It’s hardly surprising that the family court having jurisdiction–the one if Vermont–decided that, given Miller’s pattern of law-breaking, Isabella’s other parent was the more fit one.
Miller doesn’t simply get to ignore the law because she thinks Jesus doesn’t agree with it. She’s no different from the classic case of Mormons who get prosecuted for polygamy. Lisa Miller is not “a law unto herself” any more than they were.
Brad,
Strictly speaking, there’ no such thing as “biblical truth”. Either a thing is true or it isn’t. Some things in the Bible are true; some aren’t. If something is true, then it’ true whether it’ “biblical” or not; if it’ not true, then it remains untrue, no matter how “biblical” it is.
As for a “biblical moral standpoint”, there is no unified system of morality in the Bible, and certainly not on sexual matters. Such a system can only be read INTO, not OUT OF the Bible. As the Dutch theologian Harry Kuitert noted, “if we were to do everything that is handed down in the Bible as God’ commandments, we would be bad people with abhorrent deeds.”
William, it’s also appropriate to point out that the denominations/theologians that have been on the forefront of advocating equality for the LGBT community have been, for the most part, the more intellectual denominations and theologians.
It tends to work that way.
As we’ve seen with Robert George in the past week, conservative “scholarship” is usually hilarious in its circular logic and lack of erudition, and most competent 10th graders could see the flaws in their thinking.
This case barely differs from other cases involving stepparents. Arguably this barely differs from adoption custody cases either.
The only reason why the right even “cares” is because it involves a lesbian. We all know the right wing is hell bent on demonizing us by whatever irrational means necessary.
Sorry, but genetic code is not enough to sustain a valid court ruling, if you do not want others to have custody of your children… do not sign your children to a joint custody agreement… I think that is common sense.
If you want to keep custody, obey the law and court rulings regarding your child… Lest ye be judged under that law and ultimately punished for violating it.
~Celeste~
“The fact it, Lisa Miller is a lousy parent whose selfishness, arrogance, and brazen disregard for the law will likely leave lasting psychological scars on the child.”
Bull feathers.
Good retort, Deb!
Wow, Debbie really put Wayne in his place!
Wait… BULLS HAVE FEATHERS?
:3
I’m still waiting for Debbie and Lisa to wish Janet a merry Christmas, and love and reconciliation in the new year.
I’m also waiting for them to start paying into escrow the child support that they are going to owe Janet.
Will the Mat Staver and Matt Barber of the Liberty Counsel help pay the child support costs that they have brought upon Lisa with their incompetent legal representation? Or will they dump Lisa like so many past political pawns?
They’ll dump her.
Once Lisa’s no longer useful in their War for Sperm Magic and Patriarchal Christian Supremacy, she will be discarded like a used tissue.
All I can say is…
ewww
Christian Supremacy
Heh.
It’s important to understand, when analyzing the Christian Right, that they have no moral compass when it comes to what laws they’ll support, whether judges or good or bad, whether they believe in the “will of the people” or not…it’s always circumstantial. Judge does something they like? Judges are great! Upholdin’ the law! Judge stops them in their tracks? GRRR ACTIVISTS! People vote against gay equality? WILL OF THE PEOPLE HOO BOY! People vote for gay equality (as they did in Arizona on the first try)? WILL OF THE PEOPLE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, HAVE TO FIX IT.
They have no principles.
That’s the other reason Lisa Miller will be discarded. When they’re in a fight that involves tactics that run counter to what they’ve used in her case, it will be required for all of their followers to abandon their memories of that case, and to sign on immediately to whatever form of “We have always been at war with Eastasia” the situation requires.
“I’m still waiting for Debbie and Lisa to wish Janet a merry Christmas, and love and reconciliation in the new year.
I’m also waiting for them to start paying into escrow the child support that they are going to owe Janet.”
Merry Christmas, Janet. Jesus loves you. Lisa can give her own wishes. I’m sure you remain in her prayers.
I agree Janet may be childish, but no one owes her child support, least of all me (??). You have to have a child to rate child support.
Janet does have a child.
Sorry, Debbie.
You can make up your own reality all you want, but at the end of the day, you’re still merely delusional.
They have pills for that, btw.
Debbie, its just a matter of time until Janet has that child. Then Miller will be obligated to pay child support.
It’s not ok to break the law, even though if you think you should be allowed to pick and choose which laws you should follow based on your personal preference.
And what the [bull feathers] is an “activist judge?” I’ve tried to find out but all I can come up with is “a judge who makes decisions I don’t like and/or agree with.” Because all judges judge, which makes them all “activists.” Even the ones who come down on the side of the Religious Right.
Debbie, you helped Lisa get into this mess.
Both you and Liberty Counsel owe it to Lisa to help cover the child-support payments that she’s going to owe to Janet.
That fact that Debbie thinks the law is “unlawful” and the judge is an “activist” (that, Emily, by the way, is a meaningless catchphrase used to gin up the unwashed masses of the Right, but you knew that) shows that she has a very poor grasp of the Constitution and of how the legal system works in this country.
But then again, we’re dealing with a Talibangelical, so we should expect nothing more.
Of course, the warped version of religion that Debbie and Lisa ascribe to ALSO teaches that women aren’t to teach men in spiritual matters, so for consistency’s sake, I’d have to ask by what man’s authority Debbie is here trying to teach the men writing these posts.
Hm?
/snark
“Debbie, you helped Lisa get into this mess.”
How, pray tell? I never even met her until last year.
Activism on the bench can cut both ways. We don’t need any of it.
Anyway, truce ya’ll. It’s almost Christmas. This case will have to wind down eventually. It would be nice if our bitterness could, too. Let’s hope for a more civil new year.
Debbie has declared a truce, because she has a holiday to celebrate!
And it will be a more “civil new year” if the “pro-family” forces stop attacking people who don’t fit within their 13th century paradigm of what a “family” should look like.
That is, the ball’s in your court.
Happy The Holidays, nonetheless!
Debbie said “How, pray tell? I never even met her until last year.”.
By not encouraging her to comply with the law. If it weren’t for the bad advice of people like you she wouldn’t be losing custody and be in a situation where she has to pay child support.
“Debbie said “How, pray tell? I never even met her until last year.”.
By not encouraging her to comply with the law. If it weren’t for the bad advice of people like you she wouldn’t be losing custody and be in a situation where she has to pay child support.”
Guess I need to further set the record straight. I have never been asked for legal advice, nor have I ever given any to Lisa.
No, but you’re piling on with those who are doing so.
And the Liberty Counsel are not acting in Lisa’s interests as her attorneys, they’re acting in their own.
That’s the problem Debbie – you should have advised her to do the right thing and give Jenkins the visitation the court ordered. You’re not untainted here.
[...] Mike Airhart has written about the drama involving the unscrupulous “ex-lesbian” Lisa Miller who broke up with [...]