On the Facebook support group for “ex-gay” poster mom Lisa Miller, several people — including the group’s creator — are praying for the success of Miller’s ongoing contempt-of-court and the apparent kidnapping of her daughter, just days before Miller was due to turn over the seven-year-old Isabella to ex-partner Janet Jenkins.
Ex-gay activist Debbie Thurman, creator of the support group, today cheered the disappearance of Miller sometime earlier this month. Thurman’s blog called this apparent kidnapping an example of “true motherhood”:
So, the blogosphere and the mainstream media are now abuzz with the news that — gasp! — Lisa and Isabella Miller are nowhere to be found, just days before the court-mandated transfer of custody of 7-year-old Isabella to Janet Jenkins. Ya reckon?
Were I in Lisa’ shoes, I could only hope to have the faith and courage she has displayed for the past six years. …
Lisa obeyed God in seeking to raise Isabella in the Christian faith. Isabella learned Scripture, apologetics and the art of prayer at her mother’ knee and in church, to the extent that she found her Christian school Bible classes boring and “childish.” This is an intelligent, precocious 7-year-old, who knows her mind and can speak it. She would have given Janet Jenkins nightmares had she consented to live under the same roof.
I cannot answer the burning question on everyone’ lips: Where are Lisa and Isabella? Somewhere safe, I pray. How and when did they get there? Only God knows. ..
What happens now? A lot of frustration, recrimination and more lies on one side and a collective sigh of relief on the other. The courts still have a huge task set before them, meanwhile. Lisa and Isabella represent only one of many similar cases waiting to be resolved. We need precedents that honor the prevailing states’ rights, laws and constitutions. The majority of Americans overwhelmingly support traditional marriage. If the tyrannical minority wants to push against that, it can and will be met with civil disobedience. There is no other way.
Lisa Miller is a mother who would give up her life to save her child. Of that there is no doubt. She apparently has chosen to forfeit a large measure of her liberty, personal property and pursuit of happiness in assuring that child her God-ordained future, much as a group of patriots pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor more than two centuries ago to establish this nation.
I say God bless and long live Lisa and Isabella Miller. All who have known them are the better for it.
Thurman’s statement seems to confirm allegations that Miller is being used by Thurman and Christian Rightists at the Liberty Counsel as a test case for their Manhattan Declaration, which is a vow to violate any law that fundamentalists happen to disagree with.
Thurman’s statement and those of many others on the Facebook group are saturated with the false piety of people who believe themselves to be unaccountable to any law and answerable only to self-serving reinterpretations of the Bible.
Drew Taggart prays “that people ‘along the way’ are brave enough and smart enough to render the necessary assistance to Lisa and Isabella so this girl can be raised in a healthy environment. I just hope Lisa did her homework and did this disappearing act properly.”
In a subsequent defense of this statement, Taggart says:
I doubt she’ll ever see a day of jail. Once word of this gets out, millions of people are going to be outraged. And there are plenty of local and a few state law enforcement agencies around the country, who will not waste a minute trying to find her. William Cohen is a leftwing hack and this ruling is a joke. Without the support of law enforcement, especially wherever Lisa opts to call her new home, this ruling is going nowhere.
Several other deluded supporters “pray” that the state of Virginia is given a fundamentalist special right to ignore the family-law jurisdiction of other states and to harbor kidnappers and their children.
Surely there are similar precedents to draw upon involving hetro couples. Namely, situations where the mother’s male partner/husband is not the biological father, and has not adopted the child, but at some point had a supportive relationship to the child as a stepfather.
I can think of anecdotal cases involving people I’ve known (in which case the former stepfather has no rights), but I’m not a legal scholar so I’d appreciate any info on the matter. Anyone?
If a warrant is issued for her arrest, anyone providing her with assistance would be aiding a fugitive. Somehow I doubt Debbie Thurman wants to do state or federal time. Since the State of Virginia is now supporting the Vermont Court as they are required, I would guess that Miller would flee south (perhaps even to Mexico). If anyone helps Miller flee Virginia, they are looking at federal penalties. Judges hold a dim view of those who flout court rulings. I wouldn’t expect much leniency in sentencing.
Unbelievably someone on the page made sense in pointing out that Miller hasn’t put herself in a good position and being on the run actually hurts Isabella.
So much for Thurman’s lame excuse that she didn’t give Miller any legal advice. Always knew you were a BS’er Debbie, thanks for coming out of the closet and admitting it.
If Miller does not comply with the law and wants to play martyr – I say fine. She can send a few years handcuffed and locked in the can to think about the sin of kidnapping.
What Miller is doing is not holy. She is a poor role model who is mentally abusing her child. There will likely be massive shrink bills in the future for Isabella, thanks to Miller.
Her lawlessness is not to be compared to our nation’s founders. It is criminal behavior, profoundly irresponsible and deeply immoral. It disgusts me that these frauds are cynically co-opting American symbols in their politically based criminality.
It is a shame that Miller allowed herself to be used as a pawn in the Culture War Syndicate. I doubt her friends will visit her much in the hoosegow once she is no longer useful to their political games.
“So much for Thurman’ lame excuse that she didn’t give Miller any legal advice. Always knew you were a BS’er Debbie, thanks for coming out of the closet and admitting it.”
And you are deducing this how, exactly?
You really are a piece of work Debbie. You just admitted the truth in your own blog, praising miller for the kidnapping, calling it “true motherhood”. Now of course in your Christian world where black is white and bad is good, you’ll have some pathetic excuse for how your actions are really the opposite of what you’ve done, but we’re not stupid and we’re not buying any of your BS.
I think that Debbie Thurman is going to be very careful about what she posts from this point onward. She apparently runs the website supporting Miller. If she can be tied in any way to supporting Miller in any way once a fugitive declaration has been made, she’s toast. She would also be the most obvious target for the authorities to start with. While I think that she loves the controversy and loves claiming the victim mantle, I really don’t think she has any desire to go to jail. After all, her internet would be cut off.
[...] endorsing kidnap as a tactic in a Culture War, that’s just plain evil. (hat tip Truth Wins Out) Tags: Debbie Thurman For related information, see Anti-Gay Activists, Conversion Therapy & [...]
“If she can be tied in any way to supporting Miller in any way once a fugitive declaration has been made, she’ toast.”
Isn’t that an interesting rationale? Rounding up Lisa’s friends and throwing them into jail simply for “supporting” her, i.e., being friends? Let’s see, where does that sort of thing happen? Please don’t lose any sleep over your concern. Bless your heart.
no one wants to round anyone up for merely voicing support but if they are complicit in the breaking of the law, by all means round them up.
Debbie, this course of events was entirely foreseeable, and TWO (I, in particular) warned you and Lisa many times of the consequences of fugitive behavior, in the hope that you would avert this disaster. You chose not to avert the obvious end result, and instead criticized us for daring to point out the obvious illegality and indefensibility of Lisa’s repeated contempt of court.
Your “support” of Lisa was not true friendship. True friends don’t encourage friends to violate the law over, and over, and over. True friends don’t fool friends into thinking that such contempt for family law can lead to anything other than loss of custody.
If you aid or abet the apparent kidnapping, then you most certainly should be held accountable for your crimes — and for your impenitent sinfulness.
“Lisa Miller is a mother who would give up her life to save her child. Of that there is no doubt.”
When it comes to lunatics like Miller, I translate this remark as “She’s willing to kill Isabella and herself if that’s what it takes to keep Jenkins from having any kind of custody.”
Too many kooky “religious” mothers out there, I wouldn’t put it past her.
Scott, that is an eerie and unfortunately very real possibility. I think you just blew my mind. We’ll see how loving Debbie is should that happen.
(She’ll probably cop some excuse and say “You misinterpreted me. I never fully supported that woman the way you said.”)
Emily, I hope that doesn’t happen! That statement alone would raise a red flag to me, and I’d much rather see the kid with a grandparent or any other family member than hiding out with Lisa Miller. From what I’ve read about Miller over the past year or so, she comes across to me as somebody who’d do something extreme. I’m surprised somewhat of an “Amber Alert” hasn’t been put out, for the safety of the girl.
Maybe they’ve run away to Uganda.
Debbie, what exactly is Lisa “saving her child” from?? In this statement you’re saying Isabella needs to be “saved.” Saved from what, exactly? Being around a lesbian? Are lesbians really that dirty and abhorrent to you? Disgusting.
I’ll never understand these American “Christians”: kidnapping a child, going underground and/or living on the lam is good for a child?? I’ve always had my suspicions about these “adult-onset” Christians but this one takes the cake. Now that there is a Manhattan Declaration saying it’s ok to break the law if you think it violates your religious beliefs, it makes me nervous. There are too many unstable “Christians” in this country who will see that as license to bomb abortion clinics or attack non-Christians or do what Lisa Miller is doing. This is quite unfair to us law-abiding people to have to live in a society of nutjob, unstable, unpredictable Christians.
[...] suffering through the pro-kidnap propaganda unleashed yesterday by ex-gay activist Debbie Thurman, it’s refreshing today to receive some [...]
@Emily
Good prediction! Her blog now has a “clarification” post about supporting Miller. Of course, she doesn’t say “I don’t support Miller’s kidnapping”, she just complains that other people are attacking herself.
But where does Thurman admit to giving legal counsel? I missed that.
I also think the Internet needs an addendum to Godwin’s law. “The first person comparing to the Founding Father’s automatically loses.” Who’s going to argue with Thomas Jefferson? O lover of faithful, same-race marriage?
Ephilei asked “But where does Thurman admit to giving legal counsel?”.
Well, I don’t think she ever admits to giving legal counsel to Miller, but in her blog entry that is linked to above she openly praises Miller for kidnapping Isabella which is in essence legally advising her that its a good thing she’s done and she should continue to disobey the law – in other words, its a moot point as to whether or not she wants to admit giving legal counsel, because she’s doing so openly anyway.
[...] her 7-year-old daughter, according to her lawyer. Unfortunately, her illegal behavior has been cheered on by ex-gay activists who want to pretend they are martyrs, rather than criminal [...]
@Priya
As much as I hate defending heterosexist behavior, I want to be fair and honest more. I think you misused her words and she rightly defended herself. A blog entry hardly constitutes “legal counsel.” I manage a website for Illinois transgender rights that includes legal information (genderadvocates.org) but I don’t think that qualifies either. “Counsel” to me refers to one-on-one correspondence. Maybe we have an honest difference in semantics. “Counsel” also implies the decision making process and we don’t have any evidence that Thurman said anything about kidnapping prior to the event.
There are so many better arguments against Thurman. In debate, it’s always good to ignore your weak arguments so your adversary has nothing to argue against.
Maybe she didn’t say anything prior to the event, but now that its happend she’s sending the message that she agrees with it and hopes Miller continues to defy the law. She may not be providing legal counsel directly but she’s doing it indirectly.
If you’re managing a transgender website that provides legal information then you are providing legal counsel as well.
Arguing over semantics isn’t productive. We can agree to disagree.
[...] Truth Wins Out broke the news on Wednesday about Thurman’s support for parental abduction. [...]
[...] bravery in her decision to skip town – and skipping over its illegality. In since-deleted post, Truth Wins Out reports they even dubbed it an example of “true [...]
The events that have unfolded do not surprise me in the slightest; I remember reading via internet the decision to award custody of Isabella to Jenkins and thinking ‘how much do you wanna bet that Miller will do a runner with the child?’ Reading about this has made me so sad and angry; I hope that Isabella is ok and that Miller does the right thing.
In the meantime, I believe that her lawyers and people involved in defending Miller, such as Debbie Thurman, know more than they are letting on. Discussion posts on the ‘Only One Mommy’ Facebook blog seem to have disappeared and there doesn’t seem to be any blog posts on Thurman’s blog before 2010. That seems like suspicious behaviour to me and I hope that someone looks into it.