This was unfortunately predictable:
Lisa Miller, who was ordered by a court in Vermont to turn over her child to her former partner, has missed the 1pm EST deadline. A Vermont judge had ordered Lisa Miller to turn over daughter Isabella to Janet Jenkins at 1 p.m. Friday at the Falls Church, Va., home of Jenkins’ parents.
Continued, from the Washington Post:
A Vermont judge had ordered Lisa Miller to turn over daughter Isabella to Janet Jenkins at 1 p.m. Friday at the Falls Church, Va., home of Jenkins’ parents. Miller did not show up with the girl, according to Fairfax County, Va., police and Jenkins’ Vermont-based attorney.
“She’s very disappointed, obviously,” said Sarah Star, Jenkins’ lawyer. “She’s very concerned about Isabella and asks that if anybody sees Isabella, that they please contact the authorities.”
(…)
If police believe a crime has been committed, they will obtain a criminal warrant charging Miller with parental abduction, and at that point officers would begin searching aggressively for the child…
All of this could have been avoided if Lisa Miller had obeyed the law in the first place, instead of abiding by the terms of her fundamentalist brainwashing, denying Isabella’s other mother access to her and refusing to obey court orders.
Sad. We can only hope that little Isabella is okay.
(h/t Autumn Sandeen, who has more)
Witness the idiotic Manhattan Declaration being enacted.
Good call.
And yet these are the sorts of people who consider themselves “real Americans” a la Sarah Palin.
Not so much “if police believe a crime has been committed” as “when.” Unless Miller quickly has a change of heart and returns Isabella and no one believes that will happen.
What’s sad is that when this is over, heterosexists will advertise that “that gays stole her baby.”
of course isabella is o.k. she is with her
real biological mother. suppose miller has a
change of heart and turns over her daughter,
and the judge orders her to jail and bars her from
further contact with isbella? you guys will probably
celebrate. I would guess that if miller and
jenkin’s places were reversed, you guys would be cheering jenkins on. I hope the a higher court
reverses the activist vermont judges order and
miller can keep isabella and jenkins can have
visitation rights as it should be
Actually, you have no way of knowing if Isabella is okay.
You need to break out of your ignorant worldview which says that if somebody is a conservative Christian, then they’re good people. It’s very often not true. Often those who are the most fundamentalist are the most mentally disturbed people of all, and they hide in fundamentalist religion in order to protect them from themselves.
Oh, and the judge in Vermont is not an “activist judge,” because that’s a meaningless term you’ve been taught by people with double-digit IQs who, for some reason, you respect.
But no, the fact that Lisa kidnapped Isabella could very possibly mean Isabella is in danger. Lisa is obviously unstable.
when will fools quit believing that simply having a womb makes you a mother? The judge gave this child to whome he picked after consult with a number of professionals as to the best place for the welfare of the child. Any wacko can get prenant.. but only a stable mom can provide the loving care a child needs.
Exactly.
Andrea Yates was a biological mother.
But let’s not pretend these fundamentalists care about biological mothers unless it serves their purpose.
They don’t have any kind of real beliefs that make any sense, and they don’t have opinions about things that are real.
They support fraudulent “crisis pregnancy centers” and abusive “Christian adoption agencies” which do nothing but prey on birth mothers. (Then again, lots of them are minorities, so, eek, Christian biases coming in conflict with each other!)
They only care about the fact that Lisa Miller is the biological mother because it serves their bigotry. If Janet were the bio mother, they would still be supporting Lisa.
Once again: They have NO principles. Everything is situational. They hate judges, unless a judge does something they like. They support the “will of the people” unless the people tell them to go to hell.
They don’t care. It’s all about promoting their narrow, bigoted worldview, and they don’t care how many people they hurt along the way.
Sad, but true.
will probably celebrate … were reversed, you guys would be cheering
You are dead wrong Brad, and I don’t doubt hypocritical in asking that question. You are the one with the one-sided view.
If the situation were reversed the responsibilities on both parents would remain the same; as would my opinions. Neither Miller or Jenkins has any right to behave as, in this case, Miller has done.
You can stop pretending that appealing to some ‘higher court’ is going to restore Miller’s sanity.
None of this would have ended up like it has if Lisa Miller HAD complied with the visitation schedule. She has been entirely wilful for over 5 years, and that is what lead to her eventually losing primary custody. It was, sadly, the only way to ensure the child had access to both parents.
If you honestly do think that Miller having primary custody and Jenkins having visitation is “as it should be” — then you should have been condemning Miller’s behaviour in no uncertain terms for the past 5 years.
Have you done that?
No, but, go ahead Brad: feel free to do so now.
I won’t be holding my breath while waiting.
I’ve been reading the comments posted on this forum about this case and have been following it a little bit. I think it is entirely wrong for Lisa Miller to have kidnapped Isabella from her biological mother Janet Jenkins. The court awarded Janet with custody of the daughter,”which is as it should be”.
And I hate when right wing fundamentalist extremists use the term “activist judges” for those judges who they feel do not rule in their favor. In my opinion, I think it is you fundamentalists that are the activists….pushing your Christian views down our throats…taking a s**t on the Constitution when it best serves your purposes…no wait…you Fundamentalist want to REPLACE the Constitution with Biblical Law, hence destroying the wall of Separation of Church and State. In essence, I consider right wing Fundamentalist extremists up there with the Taliban.
Look Brad, I don’t know you from Adam, but from reading your posts in here, I swear your one of those crazy a******s who cries victim every time courts don’t rule your way. I think, if I had it my way, I’d take everyone of you Fundamentalists and mandate forced psychological therapy( a kinder way of saying taking them out back and shooting them.)
Seriously Ray, but nobody takes anyone ‘out the back and shoots them’ here. Even metaphorically. Or jokingly. It’s just not the type of World we’re fighting for.
However, I think we do all reserve the right to expose inhumane attitudes and activities to public ridicule :)
(Also, it may have been a typo but Lisa Miller is the biological mother not Jenkins. Both women are the child’s legal parent.)
Yeah, no shooting.
Lots of mocking, though. That’s what I do.
It seems to me the question at issue is, Which state has jurisdiction?
If Vermont has jurisdiction, then Lisa Miller is in danger of losing custody of her daughter.
If Virginia has jurisdiction, then the order of the Vermont judge giving custody to Janet Jenkins, the non-biological parent, is not necessarily a done deal until a judge in Virginia weighs in.
This case should encourage all of us in gay or lesbian partnerships where children are involved, to do all the paperwork before custody issues become a legal nightmare.
Rick Brentlinger
Yep.
Vermont has jurisdiction here, thankfully.
That Vermont has jurisdiction is the operative assumption yet isn’t it true that Virginia does not recognize Vermont’s same sex marriage and civil union laws?
Therefore, is it possible that a Virginia court will not extend “full faith and credit” to Vermont’s law and court decisions which recognized Janet as one of Isabella’s legal parents?
If that is the case, then if Lisa and Isabella are in Virginia, which does not recognize the legal basis for Janet Jenkin’s claim, Virginia may not view Lisa as having kidnapped her daughter.
And that’s where it gets sketchy. We’ll see how it pans out.
The Virginia judges so far seem to be deferring to Vermont, since that’s where it all originated.
*Usual disclaimer applies. I do not offer legal advice. I am not a lawyer. I’m not even a lawyer’s horse’s a*s. Or American for that matter.*
Hi Rick: Vermont has jurisdiction. That appears well and truly settled.
Both the Vermont Supreme Court and the Virginia Supreme Court (June 2008) have said so. Very clearly. Even the US Supreme Court has flung the case (urgh, I think 2 times now and counting) because there basically isn’t a conflict between the two states (and hence no constitutional question to be decided). Both Vermont and Virginia recognise that the PKPA would apply. Virginia has already given full faith and credit to Vermont.
Anyhow, rulings on who is a ‘parent’ — in either Vermont or Virginia — aren’t based solely on being a biological parent or being in a recognised marriage. Both states can and do rule non-biological psychological parents as legal parents.
Appeals to Virginia’s AMA etc are a red-herring — always were, I suspect — and it has no bearing on whether Jenkins is a legal parent. She is: Vermont has said so since March 2004. A Virginia judge plainly stated that the AMA is about marriage, not about parenting, and plainly stated that Vermont had ruled on parental status on grounds that included the civil union but did not rely on it.
If I was Miller I would be turning up in Vermont tomorrow and throwing myself at the mercy of the Court. Family courts know that parents get into conflicts, and act stupidly at times. But if ever a mother was willing to eat humble pie for the sake of her child, now would be such a time for that mother to roll herself up to the counter and ask for a very large slice. Each passing day can only make it worse.
I’m not one to ever see Law Courts as anything other than a gamble in any future pleading, but jeepers people… don’t any of you read the actual judgements and the reasoning behind them?! :)
(Actually don’t. It’s painful. But if you must… they can be found at Lambda or GLAD. They apparently are lawyers.)
Thanks for clarifying things in legal-ish speak, even if you’re not a lawyer’s horse’s a*s.
:)
I hate the fact that Lisa Miller has made her child into a pawn for religion. Obviously she cares nothing for the kid, to drag the poor child through this. Just as Obviously, this child is in danger: Lisa Miller is mentally unstable.
I know it just pisses off Christians to no end, but most people in this country are not members of the American Taliban. We don’t demand that everyone around us believe in Sharia law, we don’t make women be covered head to toe, and we don’t care if someone is gay. We DO respect the laws of the land however, which is more than Lisa Miller’s supporters are doing. The law CLEARLY states that Ms. Jenkins is just as much the parent of this child as Ms. Miller. The law also CLEARLY states that Ms. Miller has kidnapped this child. You might not like the law, but we all need to follow it! AS for my own religion? It starts with “Thou shall not harm” and Lisa Miller has clearly HARMED this child. Lets get this child back before Lisa marries her off Warren Jeffs or something.
Radical anti-gay activists do not have the special right to disobey our nation’s laws, campaign finance laws or tax exempt status rules. If they don’t want to play by the law, they should be prosecuted and thrown in prison. Why should they be able to pass laws taking away rights from law-abiding, taxpaying, gay Americans yet ignore laws themselves?
I think this whole same-sex marriage issue should make Americans ashamed of how hate-filled they can be. I don’t understand why so many people oppose same-sex marriage, which would give gay couples stability, security and specific rights as a couple. I had no idea so many Americans were filled with hate and need to hate a group of people in order to feel good about themselves. I’m at a loss to understand the mentality. And I really don’t understand why black Americans aren’t more supportive of gay peoples’ civil rights, after all they claim they’ve been through to get their own civil rights recognized.
oh really ray, forced psychological therapy?
take them out back and shoot them? and I thought your
side was supposed to be the tolerant side! evan where
is your proof to back your claims the cpcs are
fraudulant? or that christian adoption agencies are
abusive? It seems to me that most of you have a pathological hatred of everything christian, maybe it
is you who need psychological help. by the way
has it occured to any of you that isabella
may not want to live with janet? should’nt she
have a say? what if she makes it clear that
she does not want to go with janet? oh, I know!
you will just say that she has been brainwashed
by miller! maybe miller should present herself before
the court and eat humble pie,but there would still
be no guarantee that she would not go to jail,
and there would be no guarantee that she would
ever get to see isabella again. I can think of
nothing more tragic then the scene of a crying
and screaming isabella ripped from the arms
of the only mother she has ever really known and
given to a woman she barely knows. maybe a better
solution would be for jenkins and her lawyers to
back off her custody demands and settle for
visitation rights. maybe then miller would be willing
to compromise
Nope, Ryan, I’ll get you lot of links about CPCs and Christian adoption agencies, but only if you promise me you can handle capital letters.
Oh, and Isabella is a child. We don’t let children make decisions on what’s best for them because they don’t always know/understand because, um, they’re children.
And visitation rights are what this was about in the first place! God, do you read? The judge switched custody to Janet because Janet is the only adult responsible enough, as shown by her ACTIONS, to guarantee that Isabella will get to have BOTH her parents in her life!
Oh, and the very next people to comment after Ray said that called him out on it, and they were both on the pro-equality side, so spare me the latest episode of your victim complex.
Brad Miller was never willing to allow visitation in the first place that’s why she lost custody. If a crying and screaming Isabella is ripped from the arms of the only mother she’s ever known that will be entirely Miller’s fault.
Ray does not speak for the LGBT community, he’s the first LGBT I’ve encountered to advocate such an outrageous attack. In fact it may be that Ray is not an LGBT, but merely a fundamentalist posing as one to smear the LGBT community.
Yeah, I think the anti-gay side here is forgetting that any time there is a protracted custody battle, it tends to be traumatic for the children.
In THIS case, the protracted custody battle was caused by Lisa Miller, who immaturely and insolently decided that she was above the law.
(Oh, and on CPCs, Brad, the first red flag should be that most of them don’t even have trained medical professionals on staff. I know fundamentalists don’t believe in science, but medical training is important for dealing with medical issues. But I’m not getting links for you until I have your assurance that capital letters and good grammar aren’t a roadblock to understanding for you.)
let’s hope that both jenkins and miller get to
have isbella in her life, however, that is not a given
in that the judge can still forbid miller from seeing
or having any contact with isabella again. show me
where jenkins aver indicated that she would allow
miller to remain in isabella’s life. I would advise miller to stay in hiding untill the presiding
judge guarentees publically that miller will continue
to keep isabella in her life and that she will not
go to prison. evan you show your contmept
and arrogance by the way you mock me because
of my grammer. I’ll match my intelligence and
compassion against yours anyday. bring on your links
they are probably left-leaning one sided any way
Judges don’t generally negotiate with those who are in contempt of court and on the lam. They issue bench warrants for the arrest of such individuals and entertain no motions from that individual’s side, unless and until, the person has either presented themself or been presented by law enforcement in the court.
If the judge were to do as you say, it would constitute clear grouds for his removal as a judge and replacement with someone who respects the law and the Vermont judicial system.
Brad, I see you are really upset by this. You truly feel that religious belief should out weight facts and the courts. However, you are using the exact same argument that was being used by Sean Goldman’s “relatives” in Brazil. “But the child doesn’t know the parent!”, “He hasn’t lived with the parent in 5 years – this makes him no longer the child of that parent” and “But he loves us! Taking him away will upset him!”. ALL of those things were of the fault of the parent that KIDNAPPED the child. Essentially you are saying two wrongs make a right. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
FACT: The court ordered, back in 2003, that Ms. Jenkins have full visitation rights to that child. FACT: Ms. MIller ignored that court order. FACT: The child, by law, is now considered KIDNAPPED. FACT: The court recognized both David Goldman and Janet Jenkins as lawful parents of their children, taken from them illegally. FACT: Ms. Miller is now considered a FELON, for ignoring the law. FACT: You don’t have to like the law, you just have to follow it. FACT: Anyone helping Ms. Miller KIDNAP a child and violate a court order is just as much a criminal as she is. FACT: If that child is upset by having her felon parent arrested, that is not the fault of the other parent. With counseling and love…. as well as a gentle explanation to the child when they are older regarding the felon parent, the child will recover, Just like Sean Goldman will.
WHY in world should ANY COURT allow a person to walk away from Felony charges?? If it was another case, you’d probably be up in arms!! Ms. Miller had the opportunity, MANY TIMES, to NOT be a FELON. All she had to do was share custody of the child with the other legal parent. SHE CHOSE TO IGNORE THE LAW. So what you are saying is that in ALL cases in which the non-custodial parent KIDNAPS the child, they should all be let go? Does the LAW mean so LITTLE to you that you think it only applies upon YOUR wishes? Apparently, that is what you think. However if I was you, I would not suggest going out and committing a robbery or a murder. You will find that they court doesn’t care if you like following the law or not, your still getting thrown in jail! Just because you don’t like the law, doesn’t give you the right to break it at will with no consequences. So it applies to you… and to Lisa Miller.
Janet has done nothing to indicate that she wouldn’t give Lisa access. Janet has acted like a grown-up throughout this. Lisa has acted like a child.
“evan you show your contmept
and arrogance by the way you mock me because
of my grammer. I’ll match my intelligence and
compassion against yours anyday”
It’s spelled “grammar.”
If Fundementalists cared about real biological mothers outside of their self serving purpose, they would agree to immigration reform without a fight where biological mothers are reunited with their children. Wait until this next reform attempt -turst me the Religious right and their wing in congress will be the first to fight it off. Take Jeff Sessions stance against immigration as an example.
I’m disturbed by any notion that Miller should be able to “negotiate” anything. It was she who consistenly has been in contempt of court. And it was she who chose to run.
When Miller chose to do that last thing, she lost all credibility.
so let me get this straight. if miller should return
and put herself at the mercy of the court and
state that she would abide by the courts decision
on her visitation rights, you people still think
she should go to prison and lose all contact with
her daughter? i don’t believe this. there is
no way miller should have isabella taken
completly out of her life. it would serve no
purpose to put isabella through the trauma
of seeing her mom go to prison, a better
solution would be for the judge to set a
joint custody arraingement where isabella
can remain a part of miller’s life. unfortunaly
jenkins andher lawyers have already made it clear
that they want miller in prison. it seems
to me both miller and jenkins have to compromise.
Brad, you either never read the case or are deliberately being ignorant. Ms. Miller already told a judge she would agree to it… then didn’t. It only came to this point because Ms. Miller repeatedly refused to apply by the court order and her own words, to share custody of the child with the child’s other legal parent.
Essentially, what your asking for (ms. Miller get off scott free provided she allowed visits) what an issue dealt with YEARS ago… and yet she defied the law and the court… and her own words. There isn’t a court in the world that would believe a pathological liar if she said “Ok, I changed my mind”. She crossed the legal line a LONG time ago. If she had simply done what you are suggesting (and was order to do) YEARS ago, SHE wouldn’t be a FELON now and that child would not be considered “KIDNAPPED IN DANGER”.
In short, every bit of trauma Isabella may or may not experience due to this situation is squarely the responsibility of Lisa Miller.
If Isabella grows up without both of her parents, it is Lisa Miller’s fault.
If Isabella is scarred by being pulled away from Lisa Miller, it is Lisa Miller’s fault.
Isabella has been hurt by her mother, Lisa Miller, NOT her mother Janet Jenkins.
Evan, in a nutshell…. you are exactly correct. Sad but true.
In this story of Sean Goldman what is concrete is that David had Guillain-Barre syndrome, which Bruna died mysteriously and that the Brazilian family hates David. The Guillain-Barre Syndrome is recognized as one of the consequences of HIV infection. The rest is staging and theater.