As the title of Jeremy Hooper’s post on this suggests, the AFA is beating the same old dead horse about the terrifying prospect of gays being in the military showers with straight people. Well, first of all, as Jeremy points out, homos are already in the showers with heteros in military showers. And the other newsflash, which I cannot stress enough, is that there are already lots of gay people serving openly, at least within their own chain of command. It really comes down to the luck of the draw these days. Some end up serving with people who know, are cool with it, etc., and choose to ignore DADT. Others use the law as their excuse to exercise their bigotry, and those servicemembers get kicked out.
The Christian Right’s fixation on this is so bizarre, because gays are in the same showers as straight people in lots of situations! If Tony Perkins has ever been to the gym (and I think he has), he’s been in the shower with gay people, unless he’s so genuinely frightened that a man might see him naked that he refuses to use them. High school sports teams? Gays. Check. Collegiate sports teams? Check. Showers. Gayness. Professional sports? Check. Gays. Sky not falling.
And here’s the other thing. As has been stated so many times before, most people in the military are already comfortable with gay people, and a growing number of them know for sure that they serve alongside gay people! So are we really having this conversation, for the sake of the small percentage of military men and women who are simultaneously completely oblivious to gay people around them AND so afraid of gay people that they can’t get in the shower for fear of catching the gay? AND! And and and and and! If we’re having this conversation for the sake of those people, are we saying that these “morally” minded soldiers and sailors and airmen, etc., who are that afraid of gay people, are our bravest?! I mean, really! Which leads me to this quote from the AFA’s piece:
If we do not insist that the ban on homosexual military service be retained, our military will no longer be the place America’s families want to send their best and brightest young men and women.
Uh, first of all? “America’s families” don’t “send their children” to the military. People, from all walks of life, who come from all kinds of families, enlist. It’s not a like a Christian daycamp where America’s Fundamentalists decide to send the kids for a few weeks in the summer. And again, the majority of current troops are already okay with gay people. The AFA has lost that war already.
You social conservatives need to get your stories straight. Because I, for one, reject the notion that there is really a significant number of troops, men and women who fight terrorists and other combatants, and agree to lay down their lives, if necessary, for this country, who are simultaneously so a’feard of gay people that they won’t enlist when DADT is repealed. And I also think it’s a grave insult to our troops that these social conservative leaders, most of whom have never, will never, and would never have the guts to do what our troops do every day, feel that it’s somehow okay for them to act as if the fine men and women who make up the US Military are as terrified of their own shadows as the leaders of the American Family Association.
Tags: American Family Association, DADT, gays in the military, Tony Perkins53 Comments »
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The AFA suffers from a deeply unhealthy obsession with naked men — an obsession not shared by anyone that I know.
Comment by Michael Airhart — February 9, 2010 @ 6:09 pm
The large anti-gay advocacy group, AFA, insults and demeans all of the Americans who serve our country proudly by lumping them into a misguided group who believes that Christ = homophobia.
If militant anti-gay activists get the special right to prevent law-abiding, taxpaying, gay Americans from being patriotic and serving our country, what is next? Separate bathrooms? Separate restaurants? Separate neighborhoods?
Comment by Michael — February 9, 2010 @ 8:20 pm
when I marched in the Crossmen drum & bugle corps, nobody cared about gays in the showers. I asked members of all-male corps if it was at all awkward, and they said, “no. we’re all brothers. it’s just another guy, not someone who’s gay. it’s just another of your brothers, working hard and giving your all in the ensemble.” It’s the same attitude in every other corps, I think it’s safe to say. And since as an artist I’ve seen and drawn my fare share of nudes, a naked person doesn’t terribly phase me (depends on the context, of course, but a naked person in the shower/lockerroom? yawn..) I was hardly leering at the other girls. PLEASE. I just didn’t give a damn. i was too worried about getting cleaned up quick enough that I could ready my uniform, clean my horn, and pack up my things before the next competition.
And that’s in a recreational group, which although is based on the military tradition of drum corps, is not nearly as high pressure as having to defend your country.
People really need to grow up.
Comment by Emily K — February 9, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Well, and the other thing, which I didn’t put in the post, is that for those of us who are close to guys who are in the military, it’s kind of a running joke…they totally don’t care about gay guys in the military because the military is already REALLY GAY in a lot of ways. And they openly acknowledge it and laugh about it. I mean…there’s a phrase, “It’s not gay if you’re underway…”
They’re kidding, but the thing is, for those who are comfortable with their sexuality, gay or straight, they just don’t care! They have a job to do. They’re all cooped in there together, and their unit cohesion is far more important than what gender they prefer to have sex with.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 9, 2010 @ 8:36 pm
[...] AFA Still Worried About Gays in Military Showers [...]
Pingback by AFA Still Worried About Gays in Military Showers « Queer Hatred — February 10, 2010 @ 10:20 am
I don’t know what soldiers you speak of but every single soldier I know does not want gays to serve in our military. I have been in the army for 11 years and trust me, someone who is openly gay will not be accepted in any infantry unit in the army. I think that when people poll the military they pick and choose who they talk to and discard the results they don’t want. Gays are looked down upon in the army, especially in the infantry, I can’t speak for the other services, I’m sure the navy would be fine with gays. Regardless gays will destroy moral and EO complaints will skyrocket because a gay person will not like a joke or gesture and a good soldier will be in trouble for no reason. Don’t destroy our military, keep DADT!
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 7:57 pm
Concerned Soldier: “I don’t know what soldiers you speak of but every single soldier I know does not want gays to serve in our military.”
Me: Might I suggest you find a new crown of more intelligent friends.
Concerned Soldier: “I have been in the army for 11 years and trust me, someone who is openly gay will not be accepted in any infantry unit in the army.”
Me: What an outrageous insult to our soldiers. Openly gay service members are accepted in every NATO country except Turkey. Israel has a great military and gay people serve openly. What you are essentially saying is that our soldiers, for some reason, are the only ones too psychologically weak to handle the situation. Or, too insubordinate to take orders from superiors. Either way, it is a slap in the face to our military. You ought to have more respect for men and women in uniform.
Comment by Wayne Besen — February 10, 2010 @ 8:14 pm
Why should we ‘trust you’, concerned soldier? I don’t because I hear many testimonies from peoplemwho say exactly the opposite of what you say.
Simple solution: don’t make dumb jokes and grow up. You simple want DADT so you can denigrate others without them answering you back. It’s going to be scumbags like you who will be kicked out dishonorably in a year or two, and you know it. So tell those last bigoted jokes against people in your unit who would probably put their lives on the line for you, while you can.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 8:18 pm
Good job using a lot of meaningless buzz words the the fact of the matter is no matter what poll you look at the majority of soldiers don’t want gags in the military. In 2004, 65% of troops were opposed to gays now it’s 51% but regardless the majority rules. You suggest that the American soldier is insubordinate and will not follow orders, you are wrong we will follow our orders but we do not have to like it. You say I ought to have more respect for men and women in uniform (good buzz word by the way) but maybe you missed the part where I said I have been active duty army for 11 years, I don’t know, are all you people that slow? Don’t try to speak for the military when you know nothing about us, you only know what you imagine us to be like, what you desire us to be like but the truth of the matter is we are nothing like what you want and everything like what we want, straight!
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
Perhaps you belong to a particularly bigoted chain of command, Concerned Soldier. Every servicemember I know, including the ones in my family, think it’s no big deal.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 8:36 pm
Wayne, he’s also assuming that everybody he works with is as bigoted as he is. Most likely he’s reflecting his own biases onto his chain of command, when in reality most servicemembers don’t care.
Most servicemembers are brave, you see…
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 8:38 pm
Uh, and Concerned Soldier? show me your poll that says 51% oppose DADT repeal, because I’ve seen VERY different numbers.
AND you might want to STFU about whether or not we know anything about the military. We might know more than you think.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 8:39 pm
I’m sure that’s because your family members serve in the navy (I’m right aren’t I?) and everyone knows the navy loves gays. What I’m talking about it a testosterone filled unit full of army grunts, and trust me boy, we don’t want or need your kind in the environment that we work in. I’m sure my chain of command are not bigots (great buzz word again, kudos!) they are not the ones who have to live and shower and eat and die next to the gays. Your view of the army is so skewed, you have no idea. If you think that my commander has a formation and says, hey you all are gonna hate fags today, well that’s just ignorant. We, the enlisted soldier that work and live with you people are the ones that don’t want your kind around. Just know that I am right and admit that you have no freaking clue what the reality is inside of the barracks, but I’m sure you’d like to know, know what I mean ;-)
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 8:46 pm
I don’t care if you have been an active soldier for 111 years, Concerned Scumbag, you are destroying morale and cohesion. You hate people who mean no harm to you, who pose no threat to you, and people who would give their lives to save yours in combat situations.
There is no place for you – leave honourably while you can.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 8:49 pm
Nutcase Concerned Soldier – every NATO country bar Turkey has no problem with gays serving openly. You will serve openly and you will get used to it, and stop being a stupid baby.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 8:52 pm
Oooh, sounds like I hit a cord… I’m not going anywhere, I was here before you fags decided you wanted to suck dick openly in my army and I’ll damn sure be here after everyone realizes it’s a huge mistake. And by the way that 51% number came from your precious CNN, check it for yourself.
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 8:54 pm
And I know some gay soldiers who have probably served longer than you, idiot soldier. It’s been done in Israel without much consequence. You sure seem to like talking about fellatio, is there something you are denying perhaps?
Comment by Gyeong Hwa Pak — February 10, 2010 @ 9:02 pm
Yeah Israel also tried women in their infantry which didn’t work to well. If you realized that different cultures have different views about things then you would know that not every culture is the same and believe it or not the army is a culture and it just so happens to be one that is majority anti-gay. Sorry, your comments are getting weaker and you just can’t admit your wrong so let’s see what kind of amazing comeback you have now. Oh what is that, you still don’t know shit, I agree! Better luck debating with someone else. Oh, as a closing remark, it doesn’t matter what Obama wants it takes a majority vote in the senate to overturn DADT and on my last count you don’t have enough votes and you will have even less after November!
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 9:13 pm
But, Concerned Nutcase, gay servicemen pose no threat to you – in the shower or when sharing a room. So you have no reason to fear gay people. You have an irrational fear of people you do not know.
Stop being a baby.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 9:17 pm
Concerned Soldier:
I have friends and family in all four branches.
:)
And to think that I would be interested in a man like you? Heh. Sorry. Only three digit IQs need apply.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:17 pm
Adrian, part of the reason Concerned Soldier is so, well, concerned, is that he knows that gays are disproportionately represented among the more educated segments of the military, and less among the ground pounders, and he finds that threatening to his fragile sense of masculinity. At this point, he’s showing such brazen cowardice that I’m not sure we should even believe him when he says he’s military.
He sounds like a longstanding member of the 101st Chairborne to me.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:19 pm
Find a link to the poll, you dillweed.
That’s what we mean when we say “back up your assertions.”
Would it make you feel like less of a man if a faggot saved your life? Does it make you feel like less of a man knowing that faggots have been saving people’s lives in the military for decades?
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:20 pm
Yeah Evan, I wonder sometimes if the trolls who come here and fantasize about a military career are just life’s failures, who have had three or four Jim Beams too many.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 9:26 pm
What’s so funny is that I addressed Concerned Soldier and people like him in the post already, when I said this:
“And here’ the other thing. As has been stated so many times before, most people in the military are already comfortable with gay people, and a growing number of them know for sure that they serve alongside gay people! So are we really having this conversation, for the sake of the small percentage of military men and women who are simultaneously completely oblivious to gay people around them AND so afraid of gay people that they can’t get in the shower for fear of catching the gay? AND! And and and and and! If we’re having this conversation for the sake of those people, are we saying that these “morally” minded soldiers and sailors and airmen, etc., who are that afraid of gay people, are our bravest?! I mean, really!”
I mean, really, the military should be trying to weed out the weakest and dumbest oxen among them, shouldn’t they?
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:27 pm
Well you smoked out concerned soldier as being a fraud. He’s never seen a day’s service in his life.
Comment by adrianT — February 10, 2010 @ 9:33 pm
It’s probably Elaine Donnelly in drag.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:34 pm
I love this quote though:
“Yeah Israel also tried women in their infantry which didn’t work to well. If you realized that different cultures have different views about things then you would know that not every culture is the same and believe it or not the army is a culture and it just so happens to be one that is majority anti-gay.”
He’s saying that, even though every poll shows that most Americans support gays openly serving in the military, that we’re REALLY more like backward Muslim countries. Conservatives are such weird moronic creatures…they fart out of their mouths on one side about “FREEDOM!” but the crap they support is basically Saudi Arabia with a Christian flavor.
Pathetic creatures.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:36 pm
Hey retard, what do you think the military has been doing since it’s inception, weeding out the weakest and dumbest, ummm, if I’m not mistaken they’re still doing it today, these people are known as homosexuals, that’s homo-sexual! Yep believe it or not it’s still happening, no one has changed any policy yet, article 125 of the UCMJ still says sodomy is a crime, therefore it is literally illegal to fuck each other in the ass in the military and just like any crime if it’s reported by someone it will be investigated and the criminals will be punished. Don’t start getting all high and mighty just yet, you people haven’t won anything except for the chance to have a few policies looked at which we all know will take forever because Washington and the military take forever to change even the simplest things, so any change will be well over two years from now probably longer and guess who won’t be president anymore. So just chill out, you see everything will work out for the right side in the end!
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 9:47 pm
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Dan Choi is back doing drills again, and his company welcomed him back with open arms.
But then again, they’re elite. They’re not ground pounders ;)
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:49 pm
“therefore it is literally illegal to fuck each other in the ass in the military”
As opposed to just being figuratively illegal…
Why are you so scared of gay people, dude? You’re probably not even hot. And you can’t spell. I doubt any gay guy in the military has ever given you a second look.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 9:51 pm
So what your saying is the more elite you are the more accepting you are of gays serving in your unit? Really, are you sure about that? You might really want to reconsider that thought!
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 9:56 pm
Yes. It’s a well known fact that more educated, more intelligent people are more comfortable with gay people.
Also, it’s an age thing. Unless you’re lying, you say that you’ve been in for 11 years. The ones who are younger than you are far more likely to be brave enough to realize that gay people pose no threat to them, and are, in fact, their brothers and sisters.
You’re merely giving off the last whimpers of a dying breed — the ignorant homophobe.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 10:07 pm
Oh, I didn’t know that fact thanks for informing mr that educated people love gays. So what you are really saying here is that a special forces team or a navy seal team would welcome a gay dude into their group with open arms. They are elite, the most elite actually so they must be the most accepting, right?
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 10:24 pm
There are already openly gay people all over the military.
It’s not “if.” And yes, there are openly gay SEALs, there are openly gay special forces.
I don’t understand why you’re not brave enough to handle gay people.
Why are you such a coward, compared to Colin Powell?
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 10:27 pm
Oooh, how about delta force? Maybe they would love to have a few gay guys with them too! You don’t seriously think that your statement is true do you? These are brotherhoods who choose who joins and they would weed out a gay guy right away.
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 10:33 pm
Why are you so afraid of gay people?
I’m really worried, because if you’re in the military, then you’re supposed to be defending us, and if you turn into a crying baby over gay people, then I don’t think you can deal with combat.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 10:40 pm
Is it because you know men like Dan Choi are more manly than you’ll ever be?
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 10:43 pm
Your right my dislike for gays and my three combat tours to Iraq are in the same level, I don’t even know how I’m still alive? When I’m in a fire fight all I can think about it how much I hate gays. You are retarded and this debate is over. Goodbye my gay/liberal opponent.
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 10, 2010 @ 10:48 pm
Bye, homophobic troll.
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 10, 2010 @ 10:49 pm
I bet “concerned soldier” is one of those felons that were granted permission to enter the military. Lordy, talk about low-hanging fruit.
This guy uses terms like “fags” and “retards” to drive his point home. Then he talks obsessively about buttsex. I bet he thinks more about “dicks in asses” than any gay person I’ve ever known.
Also, we seem to be forgetting about lesbians. ;-) I would make a snide comment about how he hates “fags” but probably watches lesbians have sex to get off, but I don’t actually think he’s straight. This guy probably joined the military to be around guys (including gay men) 24/7!
Seriously, can we please get rid of the soldiers who are too distracted thinking about gay men and butt-sex to serve their country?
Israel’s military is one of the mightiest in the world, and they don’t skimp on the gays. They don’t even give a damn. And their culture? Judaism.
Comment by Emily K — February 11, 2010 @ 12:06 am
So, you fight for hate. It speaks poorly of your mental stability.
Comment by Gyeong Hwa Pak — February 11, 2010 @ 12:07 am
So, you fight for hate. It speaks poorly of your mental stability, insane soldier.
Comment by Gyeong Hwa Pak — February 11, 2010 @ 12:08 am
In my opinion, poor concerned soldier has a few psychological issues as well as a paucity of exposure to others different from him and also a maturity issue. Soldiers, all, are highly trained to accomplish a mission and cover each other’s backs. It’s a pity; concerned soldier is not growing or maturing in any significant way from 11 years service. Things are changing rapidly in the world. People are out and proud. Nobody’s going to the back of the bus anymore because of the discomfort of a few morons. People challenge long held religious bigotry and deluded religiosity. Nobody can hide behind a crucifix anymore and declare support for criminalization of gay people or their extermination or the denial of civil marriage. The same tired pro-arguments for DADT, DOMA, Proposition 8 et al are now reeking of desparation and irrelevancy. Even that tired man in a dress from the Vatican is as irritating as LaBarbara, Cameron and Dobson. Grow up boys, nobody will swallow your koolaid anymore. Love, Dom R.N.
Comment by Dom — February 11, 2010 @ 12:08 am
“Seriously, can we please get rid of the soldiers who are too distracted thinking about gay men and butt-sex to serve their country?”
Exactly!
As I was just discussing with an Air Force friend of mine (straight, Evangelical), we’re worried that if the terrorists find out that some of our soldiers (like “Concerned Soldier”) are so frightened of gay people that they troll the internet looking for places to say “fag”, that the terrorists will kidnap Neil Patrick Harris to use as a weapon against these cowardly homophobic soldiers, and then what? Chaos is what!
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 11, 2010 @ 12:39 am
“Seriously, can we please get rid of the soldiers who are too distracted thinking about gay men and butt-sex to serve their country?”
ummm, I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what we have been doing! You see the people described in your little quote are known as fags, and they are too distracted thinking about gay men and butt sex to serve, retard! No one is swallowing the kool aid anymore because they are all too busy swallowing each others cum. And by the way religion and culture are two different things, fucktard. I can’t deal with you faggots anymore.
Comment by Concerned soldier — February 11, 2010 @ 4:58 am
Wow, the angrier this guy becomes, the more sexually explicit his comments are. See, un-closeted gays don’t talk like that when they are in a heated argument because they are not constantly thinking about butt-sex and other men’s reproductive parts. They are comfortable with that stuff so they don’t find themselves obsessing over it.
But this guy just wreaks of the closet! Start fighting for the repeal, Closeted Soldier, before the pain and distress of being a conflicted gay man eats through your guts and destroys your brain!
Comment by Emily K — February 11, 2010 @ 7:39 am
That’s right, he can’t deal with you faggots, Emily.
;)
If he keeps talking, I’m going to pop popcorn and order pizza for everybody.
(And yes. Getting madder and madder and getting more explicit and throwing anti-gay slurs does tend to run concomitantly with an internet browsing history that includes A LOT of gay porn.)
Comment by Evan Hurst — February 11, 2010 @ 8:58 am
The guy is a nutcase – and incidentally the comment about thinking of exterminating gay people when firing his machine gun is revealing. That actually really does happen in Baghdad right now, and it’s done by insane nutcases like Moqdata al-Sadr’s Mehdi Army and Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani’s bard Corps. It’s possible the comments above are a sign of PTSD. I don’t think this person is mentally stable, and certainly should not be allowed anywhere near any weaponry.
Of course, gay people have always served and always will serve. A thought is this: if the obama administration stalls, well, may be it’s time LGBT service personnel took matters into their own hands? We really could do with 10,000 people with the bravery of Dan Choi.
It costs huge amounts of time and money to investigate military personnel suspected of breaking the code, and go through the discharge procedures. There are thousands of LGBT people hiding under the code. Imagine, if so many personnel came out in their unit at once – in a polite, but firm way, and remind their commanders that they are proud to serve and be who they are. DADT would be over. The administration would buckle, the investigators would be overworked, drained. They would have to then explain to the media and to congress, why some are fired and others are not – anyone firing then would be a PR disaster.
A good day to call D Day for DADT would be from June 6th, the anniversary of the Normandy landings. Those soldiers risked far more than any soldier coming out could ever risk. I say to military personnel wherever you are, living a lie, organize yourselves.
There are many other things civilians can do, too. Protests at recruitment centers, strengthening the boycott of military recruitment initiatives on campuses. Remind people of the hurt caused by this policy. Well meaning people are less inclined to be associated with an organization that is seen to be inhumane. This might encourage anti-gay bigots to join, but the military knows that it does not need to be full of fanatics who want to convert the middle east to follow Jesus Christ – since religion is the cause of all the major problems in the world today. Too many creationist Palin loving morons in the army will send us to the brink of nuclear war.
Evolution, revolution, comes from the bottom up. We get results by applying pressure, whether it’s a Boston Tea party, or the women’s movement, or gay equality. Be seen. Be heard.
Comment by adrianT — February 11, 2010 @ 9:07 am
The U.S. military budget is currently $800 billion per year, much of that borrowed from China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia.
Hiring a few gay soldiers is fine with me, but the bigger national focus should be to slash our armed forces by 75 percent and limit them to domestic territorial defense and a few small covert ops abroad when necessary.
Comment by Michael Airhart — February 11, 2010 @ 10:04 am
Funny how we borrow money from Saudi, to fight the wahabbi Islamic fanaticism exported from Saudi Arabia in the first place.
Comment by adrianT — February 11, 2010 @ 10:37 am
[...] but spends its time gay bashing. Wildmon’s exit will, if anything, make the organization more radical and extreme. Donald’s son, Tim, will be apparently taking [...]
Pingback by Truth Wins Out - American Family Association Chairman Donald Wildmon Steps Down Due To Illness — March 4, 2010 @ 1:19 pm
Gays SHOULD be allowed in the military, BUT SHOULD NOT be allowed in showers with others. It would be the same as allowing a straight guy in the showers with the women. Correct?? It isn’t too bad right now since the penalty for being gay is being kicked out. But I’m sure it will get worse as it becomes an open thing. Not to say that all gays are pervs.. But it will still cause a problem and it just won’t be looked at the same. For instance, if I was open gay, and in the shower with the guys, I could look at them all I wanted and can’t get kicked out just “for looking”. Right now, you won’t catch any guy starring at a guys package, because gays aren’t allowed. So they’re not looking away because they are worried about getting caught looking, it’s that they’re not allowed to be gay. By the way, this is generally speaking. Out of repsect, if I had to shower with girls, I would not stare at them even though I’m straight. And I’m sure gays guys would not stare at other guys out of respect as well. But there will be a fair amount that would, just as the case if a large number of guys were taking showers with women, there will definitely be a fair amount that would be looking, making comments, etc.. Obviously that is why they don’t have co-op showers. However, women can serve in the military and aren’t any less human as the next person, so gays should be allowed too. BUT NOT IN THE SAME SHOWERS. I propose that everyone has their own shower anyway. In fact, if the military goes to seperate shower stalls, I would inlist. First off, I don’t want to be in a shower with another guy..period. Secondly, I have a birth defect that effects my appearence that I don’t feel comfortable being naked in front of people, even women. However, I have always wanted to join the military. Especially since most of my family have all served.. Gays should join the fight to be allowed in the military, but you should also push for the military to use sperate stalls. You will definitely get more support from the straight community that way..
Comment by "Xavier" — October 19, 2010 @ 11:27 pm
If we’re going to let openly gay men shower with straight men, why don’t we let straight men shower with women? Because we assume that most straight men would have difficulty controlling themselves if surrounded by gorgeous, wet, naked women.
Look at it this way. If an openly gay man is alone in a shower with a straight man that he finds terribly attractive, there is going to be a lot of awkwardness and tension, even if the gay man does not express his interest in words.
Just keep the current “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in place, but to be fair, let’s amend it to make it illegal to “out” gay people.
Sexuality is a complex issue and there are no easy solutions. Let’s keep pretending we’re all straight and keep taking showers together. That seems to work.
Comment by Chris — December 1, 2010 @ 11:46 pm