For the past two days I observed The Awakening, a two day extremist conference that took place at Liberty University in Lynchburg, VA. In-depth commentary and analysis will be provided later when I return to New York City.
For now, here are a few pictures from the event. Yes, that is me posing with Liberty Counsel’s Matt “Bam Bam” Barber. In the other picture, Matt is with Andrea Lafferty of the Traditional Values Coalition and Rena Lindevaldsen, Esq.
The big news here is that radical cleric Lou Engle of The Call conceded, at a the LGBT Agenda breakout session, that the next generation is largely supportive of LGBT rights. (but not on abortion) He claims that the far right has lost on this issue barring a miracle, such as an intercession at a 500,000 youth rally that Engle floated to the activists on-stage and in the audience. Matt Barber said they should privately discuss such a rally after the forum.
Good luck with that idea, considering the breakout session at the late Jerry Falwell’s university drew only fifteen people – two of whom were observers from progressive organizations. The rest of the crowd were hard core anti-gay activists from groups like PFOX.
Unfortunately, I was “outed” at the session by Lafferty which made me about as comfortable as a fly landing on a porcupine. She asked me if I had any questions. I looked around the room and saw no movable middle in this bunch, so I declined. I preferred to plead the 5th, to ensure I could attend the big rally that was planned for the evening.
Check in later for more observations on the conference and rally.
What a load of tripe.
Main Entry: re¬?li¬?gion
Pronunciation: \ri-Ààli-j…ôn\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious [a nun in her 20th year of religion] b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Guess what — Christianity falls under the category of “religion”. Trying to turn the accountability of your faith onto everyone else BUT your faith is dishonest, especially by lying about what a religion is.
The evils that are done in the name of religion are done EXACTLY for the very same reasons that you think your faith has absolute authority. God — not just any god, but YOUR brand of god — is absolute authority, simply because you assert that he is. Any evil, any pain, any oppression, any inhumanity can be justified simply by saying, “God said so.” Isn’t that convenient? What arrogance.
“God says so” is not convincing, especially since you can’t prove that God says so (How do you know? Maybe he says otherwise. Maybe there’s a nice, fat chunk of Hell set aside for people who oppress LGBT individuals that power-hungry oppressors don’t want people to know about). If you’re going to make an assertion of wrongdoing, you need to back it up with something a little more substantial than that.
Sorry Linda. The Bible is fallible, written by imperfect men, though inspired, but by no means the literal Word of God. I can be inspired to write something about God but does that make it the literal Word of God because I was inspired to write it? NO! I was inspired to write but still bring with me my imperfections and my limited understanding as I write. I cannot claim that God literally spoke this!
As a Christian who is gay, I praise God everyday for the belief that he is still speaking and that I rely on the Holy Spirit for conviction and guidance. The Bible is not infallible. To me that would be nothing short of Bibliolatry! Raising the Bible to Christs’ rightful place! He has not closed the book on revealing himself to us! Sorry, the Bible is not the final authority! God’s Holy Spirit is! Alive and working in this world! Thank God I have not closed my mind nor stop listening to what God has to say to ME!
Keep it up Wayne! Expose the lies and the deception from those that demand that we worship their literal interpretation of scripture rather than God himself!
Ben -” It never ceases to amaze me as I watch the religionists enact and re-enact their homo-hatred, finding always some way to express their antipathy towards people they do not know, know nothing about, and who have done them no harm– well, I should say no DEMONSTRABLE harm, apart from offending them by existing. And of course, it is even more offensive when they must rationalize the damage they do to gay people as a show of faith and virtue. “Love the sinner and hate the sin” erases the fine and necessary line between hypocrisy and sarcasm, for as Rochefoucauld noted sarcastically, hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue.”
We do offend them by our very existence. It challenges their perfect and literal interpretation of Scripture. They cannot have that conflict in their lives so that is one of the reasons why they have ex-gay ministries to counter that. Their safe positions of literal interpretation of Scripture is more important to them than listening to the actual lives of the GLBT community. That is why there have been religious wars since the beginning of time.
Its the “I’m right, and your wrong” mentality.
“Your sin does not change our love for you, but it does concern us for you. Sodomy is a dangerous practice.”
If you truly loved him, you wouldn’t be placing your arrogance– sorry, faith –over his wellbeing by implying that he’s shameful and dirty for no good reason, and spreading lies using derogatory language about what you presume his practices are. Fun fact: homosexuality isn’t all about The Buttsex. You don’t know what Ben’s sexual practices are, and it’s very rude to bring it up as you did, uninvited.
But you wouldn’t know that, would you? Because making an attempt to learn about the people you’re trying to reach, beyond some moldy old stereotypes spread around by bigots with a vested interest in keeping their privilege safe and sound, would take effort and might (gasp!) challenge your preconceptions.
Yes, Makyui, I did mention child molesters. I mentioned them as an example of people whose behaviour, we would all agree, is evil. What was my reason for using them as an example? Well, it certainly WASN’T in order to compare child molesters to homosexuals (or whatever Christian fundamentalist like to call us). It’ because I regard homophobic abuse — whether or not attempts are made to justify it by quoting the Bible — as comparable to paedophilic abuse.
Both types of abuse are liable to have similar and very damaging effects on the lives of those who have been subjected to them. The perpetrators of both tell themselves, and try to persuade others, that what they’re doing isn’t “really” abuse. Consider the following:
(1) “I don’t think you ever, ever, forget. I don’t care what people say. I don’t care whether people have managed to suppress it so successfully that they never give it a second thought. It’ embedded in your psyche. You cannot get rid of it. I get reminded virtually every day. It’ always there.”
(2) “It took me a very, very long time to feel comfortable with my feelings of affection and sexual desire, and I think these problems are manifested in different victims in a myriad of different ways.”
(3) “I took to drinking too much and I took pretty well every drug except heroin. I felt so bad and worthless that I was prepared to do anything to deaden the pain. Several times I made plans to kill myself.”
(4) “At any stage from the age of seventeen onwards I could have become a heroin addict and not made it till I was twenty-five. That’ how bad I was feeling about being bad. Non-existence was definitely a choice I could have taken.”
(5) “What would be the point in telling people more — in recounting all the hours and days that you just sat there with your head in your hands thinking “I’m so useless’?”
(6) ” “It’ all right,’ he said. “Cry as much as you want. I understand where you’re coming from. It’ still with you isn’t it?’ I must have been carrying it around with me years after I thought it was forgotten and buried, but at last I’d talked to someone, and I’d been lucky enough to talk to someone who understood what it had done to me. “Always best to talk,’ he said. “No good keeping it locked up inside.’ ”
(7) “I went home and tried to kill myself. Only my mother found me in time, or I would now be dead.”
All of the above are adults describing how abuse impacted on their lives, sometimes years later. Some refer to paedophilic abuse, others to homophobic abuse. I challenge anyone to sort them correctly into their respective categories. (Answers on a postcard, please.) I have removed all verbal clues; any that appear to remain will probably be misleading.
Hi, Ken,
We can’t believe we are right and you are wrong. We are sinners just like you. Our salvation is not in our own righteousness but in Christ’s.
Instead, we believe that God is right and anyone who opposes Him is wrong.
So, you really don’t offend us. We don’t tell you God’s truth to satisfy a “religion”, but because God chooses to work through His people to reach the lost.
Yes, there is a Holy Spirit, His Spirit, but it is not just Any Spirit by which people might want to be swayed. The Holy Spirit reminds us of the teachings of the Bible. Anything else is heresy.
We assume you have read Romans 1.
Don and Linda
To commenters Don and Linda Burris, Edward, Dimitry (and possibly a few others),
All of you exhibit symptoms of having been over-indoctrinated, and under-educated.
Indoctrination involves instilling a limited sub-set of information intended to validate preconceived beliefs. All other information, reason, and logic are characterized as threatening and must be rejected. Independent thinking, analysis, and questioning are discouraged.
Education involves exposure to the broadest possible array of information. Independent thinking, analysis, synthesis, and questioning are not only encouraged, but are an integral part of the educational process.
If you could muster the courage to escape from your cave-like incestuous little world you would learn about another world brimming with fascinating information, discoveries, enlightenment, science, and possibilities. You could participate in the excitement of exploring lots of remaining unresolved mysteries. You would also learn how education has allowed increasing numbers of people to make significant progress in abandoning their fears, prejudices, and bigotry involving people who may be different from themselves.
To a great extent, people whose lives are formed and filtered through indoctrination are navigating through life by looking backwards to find their way forward. Educated people look backwards too, but they analyze/synthesize what they see, discard what proves false, and use it all as a springboard for making more progress and new discoveries about everything from insects to the entire universe. Doesn’t that seem much more rational than being indoctrinated to believe that all the answers we need are contained in one particular collection of writings from thousands of years ago?
William, you’re absolutely right (I’m sorry if it seemed like I was accusing you of wrongdoing; I forget sometimes that my intentions aren’t always clear). What you’ve said there is why I’m so tired of that myth popping up everywhere — because it enables the perpetrators of these abuses by hiding them from scrutiny — and why the ex-gay ministries and people who strip the humanity from LGBT folks are so disgusting.
People DIE from this, and the people who don’t die are often changed forever in terrible ways. And folks like Don/Linda and Exodus and the Religious Right can sit back, all smug in their privilege, and claim that they’re doing good because they’re too damned selfish to see that they’re not.
Hi, Richard,
Sorry, but God says our wisdom is but foolishness.
We are quite educated, we love science, and we love discussions, but we would never trade God’s truth for man’s delusions.
Don and Linda
“We can’t believe we are right and you are wrong. … Instead, we believe that God is right and anyone who opposes Him is wrong.”
And by “God” you mean “your opinion of God”, which means that, yes, you DO believe that you are right and we are wrong.
Makyui,
Thanks for mentioning Exodus (Exodus International), another good work.
http://www.exodusinternational.org/
Don and Linda
Wow, you’re not listening to a word that anyone says, are you?
Disgusting. You’re not hear to learn, or engage, or discuss. You’re just here to spread b******t and kill people.
Yes, by promoting people like Exodus as “good work” you ARE killing people.
GTFO.
Makyui,
Thanks for asking.
We are talking about the God of the Bible, who came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, the God-man, who is our Creator and our Redeemer, who counsels us as the Holy Spirit, the one and only God.
Don and Linda
“We are talking about the God of the Bible, who came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, the God-man, who is our Creator and our Redeemer, who counsels us as the Holy Spirit, the one and only God.”
Prove it.
We care for you all and would prefer a discussion in person, but we are thankful that the internet has allowed us this opportunity to dialogue with you.
We must go now, due to other responsibilities.
We would like to leave with you a portion of God’s word, for His Word is living and active,sharper than any double-edged sword…it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
We hope that many of you here will trust Christ and be part of the “us” mentioned in that verse, rather than continue in your foolishness. Again, we ourselves are only sinners saved by grace; we have no condemnation for you, but we are holding out the word of truth for those who will believe.
Sincerely in Christ,
Don and Linda
Sorry, Makyui,
We saw your last post as we posted ours.
God needs no proof. He is the great I AM.
Talk to Him. Ask Him to forgive you. He will hear that prayer and show you His love.
Makyui,
Good one.
Will
when you defend liars in the name of God, you have no room to talk to us.
“How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” – Luke 6:42
Been there, done that. And I’m not going to bother pointing out how little your comment makes sense, because it’s pretty clear that sense is not in your dictionary, anyway.
You’re not in the business of knowing truth. Just pushing people around. Maybe someday you’ll realize what destruction you and your ilk are perpetuating, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
Don and Linda: thank you so much for proving my point.You don’t love me. In fact, you don’t know anything about me, or my life, or sodomy. All you know is something you believe you understand about something that may possibly be about homosexuality in a book written by desert nomads 2000 years, a couple of continents, and a world-view away. What you love is the image you have of yourselves as savers of benighted souls, as God’s especially chosen messengers to those unwashed heathens.
Honey: that’s not love, its narcissism. And you are too spiritually arrogant– the very essence of narcissism– to get it.
“Sodomy is a dangerous practice.” Well, you’re wrong about that. Funny, I’ve been a practicing sodomite for 40 years. I have no diseases, I have a happy successful life, am well thought of by family and community and at 60 years old, I weight 10 pounds more than I did in college, I can outrun and outlast most men 20 years younger.
So what’s the danger? Probably only to your belief in your Christian and heterosexual superiority. And to the continued oppression of those pour souls who have given into the belief that because they are gay, they are on god’s special shitlist. (It’s just yours, but it sounds better if you slander god with it). Just how many kids have to kill themselves, or be killed by carefully taught little thugs, like Lawrence King or Matthew Shepard, or lead the life of some gobsmacked Ted haggard, before you finally give up on your insistence that you can do whatever you like to us because God is on your side. Obviously, you didn’t read the part about the witches, did you?
And this gem: “He instituted marriage between a man and a woman, and that is why we could not vote for same-sex “marriages”. Those “quotes’ are just dripping with condescension and contempt.
So you are quite willing to deny me civil marriage (BTW, I was married by a Christian minister who obviously disagrees with you) and see to it that everything my husband I have been working for our whole lives together is taken away from me, so that I can end my old age living out on the street. Sounds like love to me.
And for what reason? So that you can tell me that you, I mean, god was right and I was an unrepentant sinner. That very same god that tells YOU “Judge Not!” Of course, you know for a certainty that it is not you doing the judging, but god. Your hands are clean. If you expect me to buy that, I have a Pontius Pilate for sale cheap.
And this makes YOU a moral person? For your version of god, of course! Did he not harden the heart of Pharaoh as he send 10 progressively horrible plagues upon the innocents of Egypt? He could have just told the Egyptians about the Emancipation Proclamation, but he needed to punish. You can just ignore everything the God you claim to follow told you about minding your own business and focus on whatever it is you think about when you are minding mine. You can do my life any amount of damage you please and rest comfortably in the your womb of self-righteousness, knowing that god agrees with you.
You, too need to punish, no matter what you believe to be true about your goodness. your god tells you that you are no better than me and you should not be judging me, but you don’t listen to him about that any more than you do about loving people. Love for you is a platitude that makes you feel better about yourselves.
Hi Don, Hi Linda,
Thank you for the laughs. It made my day.
Will
Don and Linda – “We assume you have read Romans 1.”
Yes, in the context and the in the time it was written. Paul is referring to those that worship created things made by man’s hands rather than the true God himself. And in their idolatry worshiped sex (and among other things) as part of their worship to their man-made god’s. It had nothing to do with people’s innate sexual attraction and their desire to have relationships.
And if you continue to Roman’s 2:
1.”You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2.Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3.So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4.Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?”
Paul was reminding the Jewish Christians that they had no right to pass judgment on others because they themselves were sinners in much need of a Savior. That they were no better than the pagans who worshiped man-made idols.
Don and Linda – “The Holy Spirit reminds us of the teachings of the Bible. Anything else is heresy.”
You just proved my point. That your Bible interpretation is your FINAL authority REGARDLESS if God, through the Holy Spirit, maybe trying to convict you that you can be wrong about the GLBT community.
Reminds me of the time when African Americans and women were not held in high esteem according to Scripture and according to those that believed God gave man the right to own slaves and make women subjected to their husbands. Yet that has changed through time. Was God wrong all this time? Or was it man? It seems to me man was too stubborn to rethink his position because he/she was too comfortable in their LITERAL interpretation of Scripture.
This is no different with the GLBT.
Thank you, Makyui. I’m glad that you’ve understood my point so well.
I completely agree with you when you say that “the ex-gay ministries and people who strip the humanity from LGBT folks” are disgusting. In fact I think that’ putting it mildly. I try to be tolerant of other people’ beliefs, no matter how sharply I may disagree with them, but those who peddle the “ex-gay” fraud or who try to prevent gays from forming appropriate same-sex relationships, no matter how sincere they may be in their beliefs, do as much damage in their own way as child molesters do in theirs. That’ why I can’t take an indulgent view of them.
Isn’t it funny when Christians like ‘Don and Linda’ claim to be so humble, yet make msuch fantastically arrogant claims?!
Don and Linda not only claim to know a mind is at work in the universe (everything we’ve discovered since Copernicus tells us otherwise). Don and Linda claim to be in personal contact with that mind, so intimately, they know exactly what it thinks about your sleeping habits, and in which position you should sleep in.
So Don and Linda, where do you get this information from? What are your sources for this infpormation? Do you get direct revelations? As Carl Sagan once said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I’m not answerable to any tooth fairy dictator in the sky – I’m delighted that there no such being exists. If some one says in the street, ‘I want to ask you some questions’, my response is: ‘on whose authority? no thanks, I’m in a hurry’. And that’s what I would say to you and your god.
Anyway, Don and Linda – I’m coming to bring YOU the good news. You talk like a slave – you can break these mind manacles here and now. Think about it – do you have a reason to believe in the Judeo-Christian god, or is it because you were taught to believe this as a child? Isn’t it funny how all believers seem to have the same faith as their parents and grand parents? Don’t you think you would have believed in Thor and Wotan if you lived in 4th Century Denmark, or Brahman if you lived in what is now India? Or Allah if you lived in Cairo? You can’t all be right.
It’s easy to walk away from all this. Bear in mind, you, like me, are atheist about thousands of gods (and every Christian god, too, because there are as many different gods as there have been people: after all, you, from Fred Phelps to Unitarians, always talk of a ‘personal’ god) All you have to do, is go one tiny, insignificant step further.
Thankfully, there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever for any event in the books attributed to the mythical character of ‘Moses’. No evidence for the divinity of any preacher in Palestine.
Remember, the Bible is a simple attempt by primitive, ignorant goat-herding peasants and a vulnerable tribe to explain the world around them. We have better information now, We know what causes storms, shooting stars, disease, famine. We know we evolved from single celled organisms about 3.6 billion years ago, and we know the universe to be about 14.7 billion years old.
We also know there are a lot of cranks in the country who think the Bible is literally true and who believe the Earth to be less than 10,000 years old. These people need to be laughed at, for sure, but also bombed – with books of course, like Richard Dawkins’s ‘Selfish Gene’, ‘Blind Watchmaker’, ‘Evolution: the Greatest show on Earth’, and of course, ‘The God Delusion’. Perhaps we need to hold Darwin Outreach events outside Liberty “University” and Saddleback Church and other mega-pest houses.
Come on Don and Linda, there is a whole world of discovery waiting for you. I won’t tell you the sky is blue, but I invite you to look up for once in your lives and see the world, human nature and the cosmos as it actually is, not as you want it to be: critical thinking cannot be done in the kneeling position.
A. McEwen, Ben, Ken: I can’t express how full of awesome those comments are.
William: I agree, totally. It’s something else entirely when genuine harm is being put on another human being, and when lies are being used to justify it. Not just unsubstantiated personal belief (which I’m not going to pretend doesn’t bother me on its own), but actual, verifiable lies.
Or, at least, ignorance and misinformation, which might be in the same category anyway.
You’re welcome, Makyui. Unfortunately, don and Linda have already dismissed us and left the field of battle. They will have no more time to to waste on poeple who are so clearly going to hell. There are other osuls to save, other eternal brownie points to earn.
BUT in the long run, who cares what they think. As long as we can point out their lies to their faces.
True that. You can’t reach a bigot, but you can reach the people who might otherwise fall for their tricks.
Linda said “I used to be an atheist. I was involved in a cult (Scientology) as well as drugs and immorality, so I know that there really are monsters out there!”.
Drugs are a victimless crime, atheism hurts no one – if such people are monsters to you Linda you are severely deluded.
Linda said “it is not God who is the monster…Though we all deserve the punishment of an eternal hell”.
Justice demands that the punishment fit the crime human crimes are finite, no finite crime deserves an infinite punishment. Your god punishes people eternally for the thought crime of not believing that which he allows to be doubtful, the punishment could not be more out of proportion to such a crime, the god you envision could not be any more monstrous than this.
Linda said “only those who reject God’ free gift of salvation will reside [in eternal hell]“.
A “gift” one attempts to co-erce you into accepting with threats of eternal torture is no gift at all, its a demand to acquiesce.
Linda, you’re so messed up you see those who harm no one as monsters and yet deny the monstrosity of a being who would eternally torture innocents like gays and non-believers. Evil has taken over your soul Linda and corrupted all normal sense of right and wrong which should naturally reside in you. ‚ÄÇ
All right. Sorry, Don and Linda, I was busy living my gay life this afternoon, so I haven’t had time to respond to your crap. I’ll try to wade through real fast:
You said:
“To Evan: We disagree that homosexuality is normal, healthy or inherent.”
Your beliefs are irrelevant. That homosexuality is normal, healthy and inherent are facts, not debatable. You probably believe the earth was created 6000 years ago too, and I’m not willing to “debate” that with you either, because it’s simply a joke. I’m sorry, but you can cling to ignorance all you want. That’s your freedom as an American. As someone close to me who fights in our military has said many times, “I fight for your freedom to be as pig ignorant as you want.” But you’re not going to be treated like your ideas are equally valid here, because we have proven many times that they aren’t.
Linda, you said:
“Thanks, Dimitry, for posting that article by Americans for Truth About Homosexuality.”
Nice. What other SPLC-certified hate groups do you support, Linda? Neo-nazis? The Klan?
Linda, you said:
“We would include every religion in that category. Christianity can be a religion. Atheism also.”
No. The idea that atheism is a religion is something that fundamentalists tell themselves so that they don’t have to confront the fact that people don’t need religion, and that religion indeed can be a hindrance to leading a loving, productive life of INTEGRITY.
Linda, you said:
“For us, however, Christianity is not a “religion”. It is a relationship that we have with Jesus Christ.”
Bull
s**t.
Linda, you said:
“We do care about you, Ben.”
Bull
s**t
Like a pedophile cares about children, you do.
Linda, you said:
“We care about you no matter what you believe. We really love you even though we have not met you. Your sin does not change our love for you, but it does concern us for you.”
Bull
s**t
Like a plantation owner cared about his favorite slavewoman.
“Sodomy is a dangerous practice.”
No, lady, first of all? “Sodomy” is a misnomer, because if you had ever studied the Bible you so casually hurl at people, you’d know that Sodom is mentioned and explained approximately 15 times in the Bible, and every time it is explicitly explained that the sin of Sodom was inhospitality. You can read this yourself. I shouldn’t have to baby you or teach you about your own religion. That said, there is nothing inherently unsafe about two people of any gender combination expressing their love for each other in sex. I know that you come from a worldview that accords intense guilt and s**t shaming to any sexual act that is enjoyed, but that your problem, not ours.
Richard Rush, you said:
“All of you exhibit symptoms of having been over-indoctrinated, and under-educated.”
To say the frickin’ least. VERY undereducated.
Linda Burris, you said:
“Hi, Richard,
Sorry, but God says our wisdom is but foolishness.”
You have no proof that your version of god (more like a revenge fantasy against anyone who threatens your worldview) said anything, nor that this “god” exists in the first place. Therefore, you are way over the line in trying to impose your ignorant a*s beliefs on other people, especially since you obviously prey on the wounded or weak.
And really, Linda…in your worldview, you’re not supposed to be teaching men in the first place, so if you were consistent, you’d STFU, because 70% of the people commenting here are men. Don’t like it? Take it up with Paul, who wrote the verses you use to s**t on gay people.
Linda, you said:
“We are talking about the God of the Bible, who came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, the God-man, who is our Creator and our Redeemer, who counsels us as the Holy Spirit, the one and only God.”
Prove it, ladykins.
Linda, you said:
“We care for you all and would prefer a discussion in person, but we are thankful that the internet has allowed us this opportunity to dialogue with you.
We must go now, due to other responsibilities.”
OH, seriously, the pleasure has been all ours. What, do you have to go stand in front of an abortion clinic and verbally abuse poor women? Or maybe collect money to send Bibles to China? Get a life.
Linda, you said:
“God needs no proof. He is the great I AM.”
That is the absolute laziest, dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. Maybe that works in the sticks of Georgia, but not in the grown-up world, darling.
And again: teaching men? Really? You’re not supposed to be, according to your religion.
Oh, and Darwin’s Bulldog, I heart you.
Would buy you a drink for that comment.
;-)
Don and Linda, in your arrogance, you ignored my questions. And no, I did not pass judgement on the Presbyterians or Lutherans…did you even read what I said?
I pointed you that these denominations are not run by bigots, are welcoming and loving of everyone. Only a conservative could call that passing judgement. They have HIGH standards, and a way better understanding of God and true Christian love than any one who still has your ideas about Gay people do.
Your version of Christianity (just one version, not THE one…certainly not the best one) is no longer needed
Have some class. At least fake it.
REREAD question 40 and answer it…and take the advice…get a life, stop insulting us, embarassing yourself…and looking like fundamentalist to boot (not to be cruel)
NOTE I would be reccomend BEING POLITE AND HUMBLE IN YOUR RESPONSE…everything that could be found inappropriate/anti gay affirming will result in a gift being made in your honor to the local GLBT youth center. Of course…if you decide not to…I have been considering making a donation to them anyway…and your impolite unwillingness to even address many of the posters here has lead me to do so anyway…..the amount is now largely up to you
Very well Evan, but beware, I am quite fussy, it could get expensive
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/207/645 :-)
Crucially in any argument like this, don’t let anyone go past saying ‘We believe the Bible to be true’. If you ask these simple people, how they know it to be true in a typical line of enquiry, you can take their arguments to their natural dead-ends. The onus is on them to explain themselves, and to make history here on this website to show any evidence for their miraculous claims. Otherwise, they must expect ridicule, as promised in Matt 10:22.
As Thomas Paine reminds us about miraculous claims (and everyone should read the Age of Reason): “If we are to suppose a miracle to be something so entirely out of the course of what is called nature, that she must go out of that course to accomplish it, and we see an account given of such a miracle by the person who said he saw it, it raises a question in the mind very easily decided, which is,–Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is, therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.”
So let me see if I have this straight. you used to belong to an organizaton which promulgated a rather improbable cosmological story, which you accepted at full face value. This group also defined you as being particularly broken in some way, and that they had the means, via their cosmological story, to fix you– at a price. In return for the fixing, they demand your allegiance, your blind adherence to what they have told you and what their leadrers demand, and your cash.
And how is this different?
more later.
It’s not different, Ben. Some people think that because something is ancient that it makes more sense, but that’s a crap argument. There are religions more ancient than Judaism and Christianity, and I doubt that Linda would find them plausible. She’d be just as skeptical as we are of all of them. This is part of why I find it absolutely hilarious when Evangelicals talk about how “weird” Mormons are, or how “weird” Muslims are. I refuse to play along with them, because it reinforces their idea that their own religion is somehow “normal.” Uh, no.
Evan, i lacked the means to emphasize the word “this”. That was my point. The woman has fallen for yet another organization that promises salvation. What did she do before scientology?
Unfortunately, I don’t actually feel like writng more today. Maybe tomorrow.
Yeah, I know, I was just answering your rhetorical question. ;-)
hi Wayne,
unfortunately, “truth doesn’t win out” on your blog, as you won’t admit that your slanderous ID of “Christian right-wing extremists” just wasn’t evident when you were “discovered” at Awakening 2010. To the contrary, you were treated with respect and with kindness, unlike your fellow activists, who in the aftermath of Prop 8, have destroyed the property of innocent citizens, villified families in front of their homes and businesses to the glee of liberal media, and also aspire to attend public debates so they/you can shout down scheduled speakers. Pretty sad that you can’t admit that your labeling of “we the enemy” is altogether wrong and improper. Why not change your blog to “lieswinout”??
“unlike your fellow activists, who in the aftermath of Prop 8, have destroyed the property of innocent citizens, villified families in front of their homes and businesses to the glee of liberal media”
Oh, standard Christian persecution card. Most of any of the “violent” events were isolated incidents that were not part of any large movement. The “liberal media” is almost non-existent. The media is always about making profit. If the people are vilified, it is because they have shown great contempt fo the lives of others- people like Dobson- and should be treated as such. Get off that horse of yours. It’s not as high as you think
Let’s see: a few yard signs destroyed out of thousands of peaceful dmeonstrations nationwide
or…
being called a threat to family, children, freedom, religion, marriage, and country.
Exactly. And being called that repeatedly.
Fundamentalist Christians can b***h and moan all they want, but the LGBT community is still the one with a bodycount at least partially inspired by Fundamentalist Christian teachings. The bodycount of fundamentalists hurt, maimed or killed because they hate gay people? Still zero.
Now where’s Don & Linda? They were such good chew toys.
Don and Linda couldn’t stad the heat, so they have moved to greener pastures where no one will stand up totheir nonsense.
[...] Wins Out’s Wayne Besen provides an inside look at the Freedom Federation’s ” Awakening” conference, while Liberty [...]
[...] I noted in a report on The Awakening conference in Lynchburg, The Call’s Lou Engle floated the idea at a seminar [...]
to Cerebral2020 from a heterosexual woman married to the same man for 15 years.
You are confusing kindness with that sweet souther version of ice tea nice. The kind that says it’s so good to see you while pulling the knife drawer a bit closer.
It would not be good politics for anyone to be anything but “nice” especially knowing there actions would be made public to more than the “4″ people who attended the session.
I attended the main event and wanted to throw up!
I had given Liberty University the benefit of doubt till I saw it for myself first hand.
W-Keep Blogging and as a woman who came here for work from England not knowing anything about Lynchburg I am so jealous you get to go back to New York!
“I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master.”-Thomas Jefferson
gerbils? wouldn’t hamsters be cheaper?