An 8-year-old girl at the heart of a long-running child custody fight between former lesbian partners may have fled to Central America with her birth mother, a lawyer for one of the women said.
The girl, Isabella Miller-Jenkins, and her birth mother, Lisa Miller, failed to appear for a court-ordered custody swap in January and are believed to have flown to El Salvador last September, said attorney Sarah Star, who represents ex-partner Janet Jenkins.
Star said a Virginia police officer told her that Miller and the girl flew to El Salvador’s capital, San Salvador, from Juarez, Mexico, which is across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas.
“This is obviously horrifying,” Star said Thursday. “Isabella’s not in school. She’s most likely in a country that is not as developed as the U.S., and (Jenkins is) worried about her. She’s worried she’s not in a safe environment. As far as we know, Lisa Miller doesn’t even speak Spanish.”
In case you’re new, you’ll remember that Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins, who decided to bring her into the world when they were a couple. They later were joined in a civil union, until Lisa Miller suddenly went off the deep end, converted to fundamentalist Christianity, and decided that, because of her newfound homophobia, therefore the law did not apply to her. Because of her violation of numerous court orders for visitation, Lisa Miller was to hand custody of Isabella over to Janet Jenkins in January of this year.
Lisa and Isabella have now been missing for six months.
If you’re a Central American reader or have family or friends in the region, and happen to spot these two, please contact the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.
(h/t Melanie Nathan)
Tags: Isabella Miller-Jenkins, Janet Jenkins, Kidnapping, Lisa Miller, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children109 Comments »
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Fun, international kidnapping!
Comment by Kim — June 3, 2010 @ 6:34 pm
The little girl is just being used to promote the Gay-Lesbian agenda. Jenkins didn’t even care about the girl until Lambda got involved. Lisa Miller realized that being gay is only a choice.
Comment by Gary Stephens — June 4, 2010 @ 7:16 pm
So Gary Stephens, you know these people personally? Or are you just trying to advance your anti-gay agenda?
Comment by Daniel — June 4, 2010 @ 7:57 pm
Gary Jenkins struggled to have a relationship with Isabella from the very moment Miller tried to prevent it.
As to being gay being a choice, tell us about the time when you chose to be straight.
Comment by Priya Lynn — June 4, 2010 @ 8:42 pm
Gary, are you real, or are you one of those wingnut robots I keep hearing about, the ones that can’t actually read words for themselves, but exist only to regurgitate whatever unscientific claptrap their leaders vomit into their baby bird mouths?
Comment by Evan Hurst — June 5, 2010 @ 4:42 am
This kidnapper is a crazy and she should be put in jail just like any other kidnapper. She is putting her child in danger just for spite.
Comment by Melissa — June 7, 2010 @ 6:42 pm
Lisa Miller accused Jenkins of molesting the child in the bath. She ran to protect her.
Comment by Roberta Owen — June 7, 2010 @ 7:59 pm
“Accused” being the important term there. There was no proof, and the child welfare people involved in assessing the situation could find nothing to corroborate that.
Survey says: Lisa Miller is probably a damned liar.
They teach fundamentalists how to lie in the second week or so.
Comment by Evan Hurst — June 7, 2010 @ 8:33 pm
I’m so glad fundamentalists are opposed to “special rights”. Because surely they won’t ask for preferential treatment when the criminal mom is finally apprehended and thrown in the hoosegow.
Comment by Wayne Besen — June 7, 2010 @ 9:18 pm
Oh damp down the drama! Lisa and Isabella Miller are simply getting on with their lives. People do that, you know. San Salvador is as good a place as any to build a new life, though I personally doubt they’re there. Chances are they moved on several times before daring to put down roots. Lisa and Isabella Miller are real people, not just pawns in the Gay/Lesbian agenda. Why shouldn’t they take their lives back? I would. There’s way too much hysteria surrounding this case.
Comment by Annie Mouse — July 12, 2010 @ 6:16 pm
“This is obviously horrifying,” Star said Thursday. “Isabella’s not in school. She’s most likely in a country that is not as developed as the U.S., and (Jenkins is) worried about her. She’s worried she’s not in a safe environment. As far as we know, Lisa Miller doesn’t even speak Spanish.”
This overblown rhetoric is hilarious. Talk about cheep melodrama. Kids get great educations out of school all the time, “less developed” nations are generally safer and pleasanter than “developed” ones and it’s high time Isabella Miller picked up a second language anyway. Missionaries’ kids lead the life of Raleigh. Maybe the more histrionic posters are simply jealous.
Comment by Annie Mouse — July 12, 2010 @ 6:22 pm
“Lisa and Isabella Miller are real people, not just pawns in the Gay/Lesbian agenda”
You’re right Annie Mouse–they’re also pawns in the Christian Agenda–as, I suspect, are you.
Comment by Becky — July 12, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
Annie:
Seems like you might know where the fugitive kidnapper is hiding. I’ll be sure to pass this along to the FBI.
Thanks, for your help.
Comment by Wayne Besen — July 12, 2010 @ 6:43 pm
Interesting, both Gary Stephens and Annie Mouse use the term “Gay Lesbian Agenda”–sure, with different punctuation but it’s the same words. It must be in their programming.
Comment by Daniel — July 12, 2010 @ 7:03 pm
Mr. Besen,
That’s what I love about the loopy left. You underestimate your opposition. You think Lisa Miller is dumb and the people who sympathize her are dumb too. It’s this arrogance of yours that causes you to fail.
You actually imagine that someone entrusted with information about Isabella and Lisa Miller’s whereabouts would risk exciting your paranoia. That would be dumb.
If you respected Lisa Miller, then you and your ilk might have some hope of tracking her down and making her and Isabella miserable again. Fortunately, you don’t. Your contempt renders you harmless.
Comment by Annie Mouse — July 14, 2010 @ 7:09 am
The typical Christian home/privately schooled 8 year old studies Latin, Geography, Arithmetic, English Grammar, Spelling, Reading, Ancient History, Art, Music and sometimes Drama. This is generally the last year of Reading before Literature study commences in earnest. There are a cornucopia of curricula to choose from. If Isabella is lucky enough to be home schooled her curriculum will be tailored to her learning style.
If Isabella were condemned to attend the local public elementary there might be cause for hysteria. A hodge-podge education in Family Life, Language Arts, Eclectic Math, Revised History, Cultural Sensitivity, Structured Recess and the rare exposure to “The Arts” would be criminally negligent. Typical, but nonetheless criminally negligent.
Congratulations Loopy Left. You who cannot think out of the box have terrorized Lisa Miller into raising Isabella outside of your box. What will be the true consequences? From within the box, inconceivable. You’ve got to exercise freedom yourself in order to grasp the possibilities.
I suggest you stop pining for opportunities to make the Millers miserable and go do something worthwhile with your own freedom.
Comment by Annie Mouse — July 14, 2010 @ 7:59 am
what the hell is “eclectic math??” you mean math other than arithmetic, or “‘rithmetic” as it is often called by people who think the “3 Rs” are sufficient? What if a gifted student wants to study Calculus and Trigonometry, because they aspire to attend a school like MIT to be a physicist, as several of my friends did?
If a home-school teacher can’t provide extra courses to enrich a student’s intelligence – as my public school education did – I only feel sorry for the students in their ward.
“Language Arts” is the same as the study of English language, reading, literature, and grammar. It’s just called something different to encompass all of those subjects.
I never had a course in “cultural sensitivity.” Unless you count when a teacher said that people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Guess Annie thinks that if we pretend only White people count, everyone else will fall back into “their place.”
Since the bulk of my school experiences come from Fine Art and Music Education, well.. I’d hardly call them “rare.”
Now, I can’t argue with the “revised history” portion. We’ve all seen what went on in Texas the past few months.
Of course, Annie wouldn’t be saying all these things if Isabella had been returned to proper custody as was ordered time and again. Isabella would be in a stable, non-mobile non-fugitive home, and Annie would be screaming about “child endangerment” and all that nonsense, outraged that we’d be telling her to “leave them alone.”
Comment by Emily K — July 14, 2010 @ 8:29 am
Emily, she’s talking about the kind of math they teach in school that doesn’t include equations like “2+2 = Jesus rode a dinosaur.” Annie obviously prefers that sort of Creation Math.
Comment by Evan Hurst — July 14, 2010 @ 9:04 am
Algebra is also off limits in Creation Math, because of all the unknowns you have to solve for. Fundamentalists don’t do “unknowns.”
If the Lord had to create all the plants in one day 6000 years ago, and He woke up at 7:30 and took a lunch at noon and stopped working at 5:00, and His rate of creation was 5,000 plants per hour, HOW MANY PLANTS DID JESUS PASS ON AN AVERAGE DAY RIDING A DINOSAUR?
This is the kind of stuff Isabella will miss out on if she goes to “normal people school.”
Comment by Evan Hurst — July 14, 2010 @ 9:07 am
I don’t know, Evan. But according to the Bible, He didn’t create the sun until AFTER creating the plants, so how’d He keep those plants alive in the first place?
Comment by Bill S — July 14, 2010 @ 9:19 am
“what the hell is “eclectic math??” you mean math other than arithmetic,”
No, I mean a hodge-podge of Mathematics taught in more or less random order to young children as part of a modern “spiral curriculum”. It’s proved not to work very well, but paradigm shifts occurr very slowly in public institutions.
Arithmatic is the foundation of a solid education in Mathematics. It is typically enriched with practical application and manipulatives. After Arithmatic is mastered, children take Algebra, Geometry & Trigonometry, Calculus, Number Theory and other topics. Without a sound grounding in Arithmatic, students don’t do well in the more advanced topics. Most children leap the bridge to Algebra around puberty. Trying to teach children Algebra before then is almost always a waste of their precious time.
Language Arts isn’t the same as a sound grounding in English usage, Grammar, Literature and reading. I wish it was.
I realize you are upset, but you can’t possibly expect me to educate you on such a broad topic as primary school curriculum. Do your own research. Leave the prejudice and emotionalism at the door and you might learn something.
It’s time for me to present lessons on verb-subject agreement, how to convert to and from base 10, two new spelling patterns, reducing fractions and the Sepoy Rebellion. I’m free to do that and more, as is Lisa Miller. It’s not difficult once you get accustomed to it. Summer lessons only take 30 to 90 minutes.
People home school while running small businesses, working freelance, traveling the world or in the shelter of suburbia. They do it because it’s rewarding. Think of it as a lifestyle choice.
You can imagine that Lisa and Isabella are living a life of hardship and privation, but you can’t effect their reality with your imagination. These are two people who have a real existance outside of your imagination. They can choose to live well. Your emotions and your imagination cannot curtail their freedom. I hope that doesn’t upset you too much. Excuse me while I exercise my right to live well.
Comment by Annie Mouse — July 14, 2010 @ 9:29 am
It is really sad that Miss Miller may have had to flee the United States in order to protect her daughter from a legal system and a culture that have lost sense.
May God protect them both. I hope one day they can return home without having to face such horrible injustice.
Comment by Jon — July 27, 2010 @ 11:45 pm
Jon, Lisa Miller is not “protecting” her daughter. The courts and child-welfare professionals have determined that she is an unfit abductor. She is unholy and immoral. It is you and she who have lost sense.
Comment by Michael Airhart — July 27, 2010 @ 11:52 pm
It’s really sad that people like Jon are so tied up in their completely fake worldview that they defend kidnappers.
But then again, fundamentalists defend rapists too, when it serves their purpose.
Comment by Evan Hurst — July 28, 2010 @ 2:22 am
I don’t know where Lisa/Isabella Miller are, but wherever they are, I’d more than gladly send them monthly support in order for them to remain together. Lisa is the biological mother of Isabella – Jenkins is nothing more than a jilted lover out for revenge. Miller made the decision to flee what is nothing more than corrupt perverted justice.
Comment by Unbelievable — October 4, 2010 @ 2:14 am
Haha, “Unbelievable,” it’s amazing how you make up your own facts and support kidnappers.
Moron.
Comment by Evan Hurst — October 4, 2010 @ 4:02 am
“Unbelievable”, only an evil person supports hiding a child from her mother and giving that child to a criminal.
Comment by Priya Lynn — October 4, 2010 @ 11:26 am
Evan, here is a sample of real math questions for homeschoolers at the sixth grade level.
Question 1)
Derek started his car (automatic shift) drove 9 km and spent 3 minutes waiting at traffic lights. About how much gasoline did Derek’s car use?
CHART GIVEN:
AUTOMOBILE FUEL USAGE
Starting .015 Liters
Idling for 1 minute .047 Litres
Moving
Manual Shift 30km 3.0 Litres
Automatic Shift 27km 3.0 Litres
Question 2)
Mr. and Mrs. Callahan and their 3 children paid $7.00 for tickets. Which game do they plan to see?
SOFTBALL: Adults $2.00 Children $1.00
BASKETBALL: Adults $3.00 Children $1.50
SOCCER: Adults $5.00 Children $2.50
b) How much change would Mr. and Mrs. Callahan get if they took their children to see the basketball game and paid for it with a $20.00 bill?
Question 3)
SALE
Celtic Bakery Sale
White Bread – 2 for $1.25
Rye Bread – 2 for $1.35
Onion Rolls – 6 for $1.00
Hamburger Buns- 6 for $0.85
Hot Dog Buns – 6 for $0.69
Melanie and Kevin are going shopping for their mom at the Celtic Bakery. They were told to buy 15 onion rolls, 10 hamburger buns and 2 loaves of rye bread. How much will it cost them?
Question 4)
I am an atronomer and my camera lens is 1.372m across. My friend George is a spy and he has a camera lens of 2.9cm across. My aunt Marie is a surgeon and she has a lens 1.5cm across.
a) How many more metres across is my camera lens than Marie’s?
b) How many fewer metres across is Marie’s camera lens than George’s?
c) Around how many of George’s camera lens’ would fit across mine?
Question 5)
The average monthly rainfall for 6 months was 28.5 mm. If it had rained 1mm more each month what would the average have been? By how much would the total have been increased in six months and by how much would average have been increased per month?
Question 6)
On an average day, Canadians spend $958904.00 buying video games. Of this total $767123.00 is spent on Nintendo games. In one week how much do Canadians spend on Nintendo Games. How much do they spend on other video games in a week?
Questin 7)
Uncle Henry was driving to Halifax when he spotted a big green gorilla on the side of the road. He screeched to a stop, jumped out of his car. He saw the outline of a number on the gorilla. He couldn’t quite see the number, but he knew it was a 4 digit number. And:
a) He remembered seeing a number 1.
b) In the hundred’s place he remembers the number is 3 times the number in the thousand’s place.
c) He said the number in the one’s place is 4 times the number in the ten’s place.
d) Finally he said the number 2 is sitting in the thousand’s place.
What is the number?
Question 8)
Elmer Fudd decided to grow a garden so he could make salad. He wants to make it 10.1 m long and 4.2 m wide. However, in order to avoid Bugs Bunny from entering his garden he must make a fence surrounding the garden. He decides to make the fence 11.2 m long and 5.0 m wide. What is the area between the fence and the garden?
Question 9)
Rob wanted an allowance. His father gave him a choice of getting it on a weekly or on a daily basis. He said he would either pay him $1.25 a week or pay him in the following manner for a week: On Monday he would give him $0.01; On Tuesday $0.02; On Wednesday $0.04 and on through Sunday. What would you tell Rob to do so he can get more allowance?
Question 10)
The Pictou Ferryboat is full when it has ten cars on board. It is also full when it has six trucks on board. The ferryboat never carries cars and trucks at the same time.
The ferryboat made five trips across the river and was full on each trip. It carried a total of 42 cars and trucks across the river.
How many cars did the ferryboat carry altogether in the five trips?
Comment by Bob — October 4, 2010 @ 2:15 pm
This story went fundamentally wrong with “Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins.”
She is only the daughter of Lisa Miller.
The crime that the state is trying to commit against this single mother family is horrific.
Comment by Jon — October 27, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
Michael Airhart said “Jon, Lisa Miller is not “protecting” her daughter. The courts and child-welfare professionals have determined that she is an unfit abductor. She is unholy and immoral. It is you and she who have lost sense.”
What the courts and child-welfare professionals have asserted here is absurd.
Not only that, but civil government is not the highest form of government. God is.
The world can rage against Him and against his design for marriage and family, but this can only end up in the destruction of those who are doing the raging.
Let everyone everywhere leave behind their fallen man-made ideas and embrace the One True God and enjoy knowing and loving Him forever.
Comment by Jon — October 27, 2010 @ 2:53 pm
Jon, I thank God (the real one) that I live in a free country where your false god — the god you create in your own image — rules over no one but your own lawless self.
Comment by Michael Airhart — October 27, 2010 @ 2:55 pm
Jon, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Isabella is the daughter of both, the product of a conscious decision by both women to raise a child.
Whine and bitch all you want about how reality doesn’t conform to your special needs, but don’t try to pretend that the actual smart people should be convinced by your mewling.
Comment by Evan Hurst — October 27, 2010 @ 3:18 pm
You guys are crazy if you think the government cares about us and does things in our best interest. haha and btw miller left jenkins because of abuse in the first place. so if her daughter told her that jenkins was hurting her in anyway why wouldnt she believe her?
Comment by Ash — November 4, 2010 @ 2:33 pm
According to the words of a Fundamentalist Christian “ex-gay”? Claiming to be “ex-gay” is a lie in and of itself…there is no reason to consider them honest. And the courts have seen, by her behavior, that she is an unstable person. This is why they’ve time and time again given custody to Jenkins.
Comment by Evan Hurst — November 4, 2010 @ 2:41 pm
Ash, Miller is a criminal and proven liar. Its no big surprise that she’d make up stories about being abused and their daughter complaining about abuse.
Comment by Priya Lynn — November 4, 2010 @ 3:13 pm
I fully support Lisa Miller and pray for her and her daughter. Jesus died for homosexuals and one does “make” a choice to “practice homosexuality”. Jesus can deliver. He came to set the captives free.
Comment by Michele — January 5, 2011 @ 3:23 pm
Great, you support a criminal, have a nice day.
Comment by Evan Hurst — January 5, 2011 @ 3:27 pm
Bill – before the plants were made (Genesis 1:11), God created light and day (Genesis 1:2) so even though the “sun” was not yet created, there was nevertheless light, to keep the plants alive. This is because God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. But the real question is, are you willing to believe the Light and follow His truth?
Comment by Rosie Phillips — April 6, 2011 @ 4:52 pm
the deluded person (rosie phillips) and her comment made me link back to this story, which has been out of sight, and shamefully, out of mind. Has any one found Lisa Miller and returned the daughter she kidnapped to her other mother, who, not being a criminal, is obviously better qualified to raise her?
Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 5:24 pm
Rosie, I believe you’re mistaken. I don’t think the light emanated directly from God. It just appeared that way because He was burning coal for some temporary light to tide Him over until He finished creating the sun. That’s where the famous phrase, “on fire for God,” came from.
Comment by Richard Rush — April 6, 2011 @ 5:26 pm
Rosie said “But the real question is, are you willing to believe the Light and follow His truth?”.
Rosie, you haven’t established that that is the truth. There is no evidence to support the idea that supernatural beings exist and as such there is no reason to believe in your god or that what you say is true.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 7:10 pm
I write a throwaway comment mocking a logical error in the Bible, and 10 months later, someone trolls this blog, and, ignoring the topic of the actual blog post, decides to address it by saying thing nonsensical. Wow. I was worried I didn’t have much of a life. Now i don’t feel so bad.
Comment by Bill S — April 6, 2011 @ 9:29 pm
I would love to send Lisa and Isabella money as well so they could be together. These situations are what makes a mother do things she wouldn’t normally do. I wouldn’t let anyone take my daughter from me. Especially someone who has a perverted sexual lifestyle. Of course you have to be concerned about them forcing themselves upon the child. This world is sick. I pray God continues to keep them safe and away from the freak in Vermont. I also pray the Judge is kicked out of office.
Comment by Vic — April 15, 2011 @ 3:58 pm
Vic said, “I pray God continues to keep them safe and away from the freak in Vermont. I also pray the Judge is kicked out of office.”
If God had any interest in your point of view, why didn’t He have the judge award custody to Lisa in the first place. That way, Lisa wouldn’t be on the lam, dragging her daughter to Central America, or wherever. Doesn’t it make God appear either incompetent or disinterested? So, do you really think that God is going to begin intervention now, just because you start nagging Him?
Comment by Richard Rush — April 15, 2011 @ 4:58 pm
Unfortunately God gives “free will” to everyone, including the judge who made this terrible decision. Ignorance is in the beholder. I feel sorry for you, I wouldn’t be calling God incompetent, he could strike you at any moment if He chose to do so. My God is the King and he is on His throne waiting . . . . . .
Comment by Vic — April 15, 2011 @ 5:17 pm
Vic,
If “God gives “free will” to everyone,” then why do you bother to “pray the Judge is kicked out of office?” The only way that God could do that is to take away someones free will temporarily.
You said, “I wouldn’t be calling God incompetent, he could strike you at any moment if He chose to do so.” Ah, yes, pulling out the old fear-card when reason fails. I’m not concerned in the least. Your religion is a myth. I’m sure that even you have doubts that you struggle to repress because you are terrified that your God, if he exists, will torture you for eternity if he finds out.
Comment by Richard Rush — April 15, 2011 @ 5:39 pm
Vic said “I wouldn’t be calling God incompetent, he could strike you at any moment if He chose to do so.”.
Vic, I command your incompetent god to strike me dead this moment and prove he exists or fail to do so and acknowledge his non-existence.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 15, 2011 @ 6:01 pm
I’m trying to imagine God acknowledging His non-existence.
:-)
There is definitely a measure of mystery to how and when God answers the prayers of human beings. He certainly does not act on our command.
This reminds me of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They would not bow to Nebuchadnezzar’s idol.
When the king threatened to throw them into the furnace they basically said “God is able to deliver us, but even if He does not we will not bow to your idol.”
In other words, we have an obligation to do what is right in God’s eyes whether He answers our prayers the way that we think He should or not.
And there are lots of reasons in the Bible to keep on praying even if we don’t see the answer in the timing and the way we desire.
I pray that Lisa Miller will be able to shield her daughter until her daughter is of a legal age or sense returns to American Law in all 50 States.
I also pray for Janet Jenkins that God will have the same mercy on her that He had on me (I certainly was and am undeserving).
And I pray the same thing for you Priya Lynn.
I’m sure you’ll have a comeback, but here is the truth: God Loves You and there is Nothing You Can Do About It!
:-)
Comment by Jon — April 16, 2011 @ 4:26 am
Oh geez, Jon. Another condescending trip through FantasyLand in which you think that because you throw in the words “love” and “mystery” and some piece of pretty fiction that you know all about the Mind Of God – and sane, rational, intelligent people with a demonstrated ability to think for themselves are deluded.
Utterly contemptible post. The smilies don’t make your opinion of LBGT lives (a horror from which children must be shielded – what a judgmental prick) any less toxic.
Comment by Brian — April 16, 2011 @ 7:14 am
Jon, you pray for me and I’ll think for you.
Your imaginary god acknowledged his non-existence by failing to immediately strike me dead. You can rationalize your imaginary god’s non-action all you want (you have no other choice and never will) but that won’t change the fact that he doesn’t exist.
Jon by hoping to deny a child her mother you’re in league with evil. You’re an evil, evil man Jon.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 16, 2011 @ 9:03 am
Jon said “I’m sure you’ll have a comeback, but here is the truth: God Loves You and there is Nothing You Can Do About It!”.
Yes, he loves me enough to eternally torture me if I reject him – how loving, just like a wife-beater.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 16, 2011 @ 9:05 am
Yup. that’s our boy, Yahweh.
“Look at what you made me do! You put that thing in your mouth, and now I’m going to have to damn you to hell for eternity becuase i love you so goddam much.”
Works for me.
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 16, 2011 @ 12:34 pm
Jon said: This reminds me of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They would not bow to Nebuchadnezzar’s idol. When the king threatened to throw them into the furnace they basically said “God is able to deliver us, but even if He does not we will not bow to your idol.”
Jon, there is absolutely no evidence that Shadrach, Meshach and Abdnego ever existed. The buybull you quote is a collection of stories and myths written by many different (male) authors over about 1000 years. The authors lived in the bronze age and started out as goatherders only gradually becoming more urbanized and a little more sophisticated by the time of the second testament. If you have the courage to really read your buybull impartially, you will find it full of contradictions, improbabilities and impossibilities. When you quote your holy book to skeptics, you make the foolish assumption that its magical properties will somehow cause rational people to abruptly abandon their ability to reason and be swept up by your religious fervor. If you want to convert people, give them EVIDENCE that your god even exists.
Comment by Paul Douglas — April 16, 2011 @ 10:02 pm
What a happy crowd here.
Comment by Jon — April 18, 2011 @ 12:47 am
Jon, just because the oppression of gays and lesbians brings you joy doesn’t mean it makes us happy.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 18, 2011 @ 11:28 am
Jon, when people are denied equal rights they tend not to be happy about it. I realize that’s beyond your comprehension being completely without empathy but at least try to look at a situation from outside your sheltered little worldview.
Comment by Daniel — April 18, 2011 @ 12:19 pm
WOW, I just read all the writings from the emails this weekend and hear the hate in all your tones – EXCEPT for Jon, which tells me he is a born again believer. Jon the bible tells us that the people of this world do not understand. Unless you are born again and have Jesus living in your heart as we do you can’t possibly understand. It doesn’t matter if you all believe in God and the truth of His Son dying on the cross for our sins. It doesn’t change the fact that it is true or that one day, EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS AND EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW. That includes you all. God will punish you in His timing, not yours. Hopefully, the right person will cross your path and lead you to salvation before that happens.
God Bless!!
Comment by Vic — April 18, 2011 @ 4:14 pm
Vic, I realize you’ve been poinsoned by religion but you have to learn the difference between anger and hate. I’m sure you’ll read my comment as hateful–and I’ll just let you.
Comment by Daniel — April 18, 2011 @ 4:16 pm
Poisoned by religion??? I do not believe in “religion”. To me religion is a bunch of man made bull. I believe in a relationship with Jesus Christ and the bible which is our instruction book from God. Why are you all so “angry” anyway?
You do not have to be a Christian to know that men and women were made a certain way for a reason. Male and Female were created to reproduce. Two men nor two women can do that. Come on there is no argument. Homosexuals are so in to their sin problem that they don’t want to admit it anymore and want to blame everything and everyone else in the world for their problems and sinful lifestyle. I used to be a drug addict but I knew that it was wrong and didn’t try to make it legal, or get special rights or TEACH IT TO YOUNG VULNERABLE CHILDREN and pretend that it was normal and ok for them to do. Nor did I take a classroom of children on a field trip down to the crackhouse so they could all watch people getting high. This world is messed up. It seems normal to most of you because you still have your “blinders” on. When you get saved the blinders are lifted and you can see the truth. Remember the bible says in the end times what is right will appear wrong and what is wrong will appear right. That is where we are at.
Praying for salvation for you.
Comment by Vic — April 18, 2011 @ 4:31 pm
Oh Vic, part of your poisoning is that you don’t even realize what you’ve been poinsoned by. And who says male and female were “created to reproduce”? What a sad, narrow life you must lead. And go right ahead and pray–it does so much good.
(That last line should be read sarcastically).
Comment by Daniel — April 18, 2011 @ 4:41 pm
Vic, LOL!
You said: “To me religion is a bunch of man made bull”–which pretty much sums up Christianity! Man made Bull. And then you “quote” the Bible (Buy-Bull) which was also written by men.
No, you’re the one with the blinders–but you also have hands and could take those blinders off if you weren’t so tethered to these Bronze Age notions.
Comment by Becky — April 18, 2011 @ 4:44 pm
Vic you have to be pretty stupid to not know why we are angry. You’d be angry too if people spread lies about you, denied you equality, and sought to destroy your relationship with your loved ones. I believe you are that stupid, Vic. You’re willfully stupid. People don’t come by your sort of stupidity honestly or naturally , they have to work at it. That’s the only way people like you can stupidly claim gays having the same rights you have is “special rights”.
Vic, men and women weren’t created, they evolved and gayness evolved alonside of all men and women.
My tongue will not confess and my knee will not bow and neither will yours or anyone elses. Your god is imaginary and is gradually being cast off by an increasingly enlightened planet. You may be able to scare children with your myths but rational people are far beyond that.
By all means, you and Jon pray for me and I’ll think for the both of you.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 18, 2011 @ 4:52 pm
The bible is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. Religion is what man created to fit one’s own desires and needs. Remember when homosexuality was illegal???? Remember when abortion was illegal???? Remember when kids could go outside and play or be safe at school???? You guys are a joke. This world has become total evil and you are part of it. The King is coming, unfortunately we will never meet so that I can tell you that I tried to warn you because between us there will be a GREAT CHASM. Luke 16:26
Comment by Vic — April 18, 2011 @ 4:53 pm
That’s an old Josh McDowell trick: ‘I am not religious, I just follow Jesus and the Bible!’ It didn’t work then, and it does not work now.
Comment by TikiHead — April 18, 2011 @ 4:57 pm
to Priya Lynn – see how hateful you gays are. And the media tries to turn it around and say we are hateful. You don’t hear me telling you how stupid you are (even if I think it I don’t say it) or threatening to slap the $^$# out of you do you? No, I was calmly trying to let you know that God is real. Many people will deny the gospel and it is very sad but the battle is the Lord’s not mine. He is the one that will wipe out the earth, I know where I am going when He does.
Comment by Vic — April 18, 2011 @ 5:14 pm
Uh, Vic, you can’t prove anything you say. I don’t know why you think you have, or that you shouldn’t have to, but you’re making outlandish claims about an old book, one that, I should add, has a 0% record for being proven correct.
I hope you’re not so delusional that you actually think you’re winning this argument. You’re in smart people land now, Vic. Sharpen up or continue to embarrass yourself.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 18, 2011 @ 5:21 pm
Vic, yes we’re so hateful–the way we’ve denied Christians equal rights–oh wait! We haven’t–I think it’s far more hateful to deny others their rights than it is to call someone “stupid”–which I don’t think anyone’s done here–but even if they have it’s a matter of degree–denial of equal justice compared to hurting your feelings.
Comment by Daniel — April 18, 2011 @ 5:35 pm
Uh Vic, one more thing, I don’t ever remember Priya Lynn ever claiming she was gay.
Comment by emma — April 18, 2011 @ 5:42 pm
” He is the one that will wipe out the earth, I know where I am going when He does.”
Um, actually, no you don’t vic. no one knows that. What if you have some little sin that you haven’t let go of? And remember, revelations says that only 144,000 people (that’s really a gross) are going ot heaven.
Our of 2 billion Christians, that makes your odds very samll indeed.
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 18, 2011 @ 5:44 pm
Annie Mouse:
We will catch the fugitive and see to it she serves hard time in the can. You can bank on it.
Truth Wins Out is taking tips on the Lisa Miller case. She needs to be behind bars where criminals belong.
Comment by Wayne Besen — April 18, 2011 @ 6:08 pm
Vic said “to Priya Lynn – see how hateful you gays are.”.
How dishonest of you to accuse me of hate when it is you who treats the oppression of gays as a joke, as though you can’t understand why they are angry – that’s real hate Vic. When gays seek the same rights you have and you call that “special rights”, that obviously comes from a place of extreme hatred. I don’t hate you Vic, I don’t seek to deny you equal rights, to have you fired from your job or evicted from your home for who you are. That’s what you want for me Vic, you’re the hater Vic, not me.
Vic said “You don’t hear me telling you how stupid you are (even if I think it I don’t say it) or threatening to slap the $^$# out of you do you?”
Don’t say stupid things and people won’t see you as stupid. You don’t call me stupid because I don’t say stupid things, its that simple. And once again, your hate is clear when you falsely accuse me of threatening to “slap the $^$# out of you”. Hateful people make up lies about those they hate, once again, that’s you, not me Vic.
Vic said “I was calmly trying to let you know that God is real.”.”.
Yawn. Vic you’ve got to be pretty stupid to think I’ve never heard that before. Show me your proof that your god is real, that’s something I haven’t seen before (and never will). You’ve got as much proof for your god as there is for Leprechauns, Unicorns, and fairies – you don’t expect me to believe in those too, do you?
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 18, 2011 @ 7:18 pm
Ben, if you knew your bible you would know that the 144,000 refers to the Jews that will convert after Christs returns. If any of you wants proof ask God to show it to you as He has done for me. You have to give your life to Jesus Christ and He will reveal things to you. Wisdom comes from the Lord. You think you are smart but you are not. You are all living in a fantasy land that one day will end. Your life however will not end – it will be tormented for ETERNITY. I am still praying for you all!
Jesus is the King!!!
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 10:13 am
Yes honey, i know. But if they don’t convert, they burn in hell for eternity.
As i have often said, you trash Christians are beyond shame, ignorance, compassion, or irony.
The God of Love, who is Love, will torment me for eternity for the simple crime of not believing in him when he has failed to provide even the slightest bit of evidence that I should. In fact, given his tendency to torment people for eternity, something that even a child can see is JUST WRONG, I would say he has provided me with great evidence that any involvement with such a being would definitely not be something I would be interested in.
And you still don’t know where you are going. As is also so typical for trash Christians (not the real ones), you are aboslutely sure, based upion no evidence whatsoever, that you will be among the elect.
Maybe you should read what Jesus has to say about judging others and being sure of your own salvation.
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 19, 2011 @ 11:06 am
And please don’t pray for us all. You have neither the spiritual authority nor the perfection required. do you think god is just waiting to hear from you before he changes his mind? This is obtuse spiritual arrogance of the very worst sort.
Your own religion tells you to pray for yourself.
I would suggest you read a REAL christian. CS Lewis’s the Great Divorce and The screwtape letters should give you a pretty good picture of where you’ll be residing.
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 19, 2011 @ 11:09 am
Vic, you are making a couple of big errors.
1) you assume you know the Bible better than all of us. You don’t, I assure you
2) you assume everyone here cares at all what the Bible says
3) you assume none of us are Christians, and that being gay means we are not.
4) you sound like you belong to one of the failed, inferior fundamentalist “churches”. Raise your standards. Go, take several months, and start getting a real religious education. Find a Lutheran, Episcopal, United Church of Christ or one of the many other churches where the scholars know that, just like how we can now eat shellfish and wear clothing made of two kinds of fiber, we can be the gay people God made us to be, AND people of faith.
In short, when you get an education, come back and apologize. Until then, stop embarassing yourself.
Comment by Gene — April 19, 2011 @ 11:13 am
Gene – you are a fool. I would love to get all of you in the same room with myself and my bible study group and just see who knows what. We would eat you all alive. I laugh at your persecution and the fact that you all THINK you are so intelligent. You are all fools. (it calls you that in the bible) You keep returning to your sin as a dog returns to his vomit, (also in the bible) I also know all about what the bible says about judging. Since you don’t I will tell you. We are to judge the SIN not the person. Sin is sin. Things are either right or wrong – there is no in between just because you think there should be. Also, there are many scientific studies that have been done that prove the Bible is the truth. Noah’s Ark and that we all come from 3 people. dont have time to teach you all the findings. Maybe later.
Jesus is the King!!!
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 12:08 pm
Vic unwittingly exposes the truth – he accuses us of hate to distract from the seething hatred he has for us. He laughs at our persecution, he takes delight in fantasizing about us being eternally tortured. Vic’s hatred is extreme and consumes him – what a wasted life.
Vic said “If any of you wants proof ask God to show it to you as He has done for me.”.
If your god has shown you this proof, what’s preventing you from showing it to us? Its that it doesn’t exist.
Vic said “You think you are smart but you are not. You are all living in a fantasy land that one day will end.”.
That’s hilarious coming from someone who fantasizes about us going to imaginary hell and him going to imaginary heaven. We live in reality and that life will end for us just as it will end for you. You will die and that will be the end of you. You’ll be forgotten and it will forever be as though you never existed. Your revenge fantasies will go unfulfilled, they will die with you.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 12:33 pm
Vic said ” there are many scientific studies that have been done that prove the Bible is the truth.”.
Let’s see them.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 12:34 pm
Vic said ” there are many scientific studies that have been done that prove the Bible is the truth.”.
In particular could you show us the ones that prove stars can fall to the earth and be held in your hand, an invisible dome holds up the sky, rain is caused by god opening a window in that dome, the earth is flat, unicorns exist, birds walk on all fours, pi=3, bats are birds, giants exist, people lived to be 700 years old, and light existed before the sun and stars were created?
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 12:45 pm
For centuries the Bible was accepted throughout the Western world as an accurate history of ancient times. It was considered to be literally true and authentic in every detail.
The events in the Garden of Eden, the Flood, the building of the tower of Babel, the deeds of the patriarchs, the Exodus from Egypt-all were believed to have occurred exactly as recounted in scripture.
But then came the so-called “Enlightenment” or Age of Reason of the 17th and 18th centuries. European intellectuals began to claim that only through human, “scientific” reasoning could true knowledge be acquired.
Scriptural revelation came under direct attack!
On its heels arose the 19th century theory of evolution, offering an alternative explanation to divine creation for the presence of life on earth. God and the Bible were completely excluded from the picture.
Soon many scholars began to totally dismiss Scripture as unhistorical, with no reliable basis in fact. They began to view biblical history as mere legend, primitive superstition and folklore placing it in the same category as the ancient Greek and Roman myths.
These scholars and “higher critics” came to deny the very existence of such major biblical personalities as Noah, Abraham, Joseph and Moses.
These supposedly learned men were committing the same folly as those Roman scoffers of old, so aptly described by Paul: “[They] became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” (ROMANS 1:21-22). Like the ancient Roman philosophers, “they did not like to retain God in their knowledge” (Verse 28).
Many scholars unfortunately chose to ignore scholars’ dramatic, epoch-making discoveries in the Near East, which were rapidly putting an entirely new light on the biblical record and showing their modern ideas to be hollow, unfounded rubbish!
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 1:50 pm
Critics eat crow
Modern archaeology has provided solid extrabiblical corroboration of historical fact otherwise known to us only from scripture. It has proved beyond all reasonable doubt the accuracy of the Bible as a historical document.
Even still, it should come as no surprise that some scholars remain determined to discredit the Bible as a divinely inspired historical record, stubbornly overlooking the overwhelming array of proof and documentation. Carnal man is disiclined to accept and submit to God’s Word.
These critics will blithely gloss over mounds of facts and plain evidence rather than accept the Bible for what it is. Some few have even chosen to pervert and twist the clear testimony of archaeology to suit thier own purposes-deliberately misinterpreting and misrepresenting that facts rather than concede the authenticity of scripture!
Nevertheless, the past 150 years have witnessed remarkable archaeological confirmation of the Old Testament.
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 1:54 pm
There is way too many facts to list them all here. But the real truth lies in the heart and yours are all hardened by the evil one.
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 1:55 pm
Vic:
Put your evidence forward. Where exactly does archeology confirm anything meaningful to support Biblical myths?
Put forth your evidence now or be banned from this site for a month.
We don’t allow propaganda on this site. We believe in evidence here. This is the reality based community.
Comment by Wayne Besen — April 19, 2011 @ 1:57 pm
Vic Said: “For centuries the Bible was accepted throughout the Western world as an accurate history of ancient times. It was considered to be literally true and authentic in every detail.”
True, and look how fucked up people were then–slavery, women as property, child labor, GLBT people killed, castrated, imprisoned.
As for the rest of your claims–they’re pretty much bullshit. There’s no evidence to show that the Bible is anything more than a series of stories.
Comment by Daniel — April 19, 2011 @ 2:20 pm
Vic….you do know that whey you say “I am a Christian” and then sound like an idiot, you make people utterly un interested in Christianity, right?
Because that is what you have just done.
The story of Noah, and the idea of all humans being descended from his family is not backed up by any peer reviewed scientific study. Neither are any of the other miracle stories of the Bible.
Now, as someone who can read Koine Greek, Hebrew and Latin, with a good background in Biblical archeology, I will concur that the Bible has proven an invaluable source for historical data about the ancient near east. The only references to a TOTALLY forgotten civilization, the Hittites, was in the Bible, and deigned nonsense until first rate science, and some good digging, actually showed the existance of the great Anatolian empire.
That said, Daniel has you on the slavery, GLBT persecution, castration, and whole societies killed off.
As an elder in the Church, and member of a denomination that has long prized scholarship, with the linguistic knowledge I listed above, plus a degree in history focusing on early Orthodox Church developement and the influence of Orthodoxy on later missionary and society developements in Byzantium and Kievian Russia, and ( I am embarassed to say ) a child and early adulthood in a more fundamentalist branch of the faith, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, from your own words, your angry tone, and your arrogance, Yeah, I could wipe the floor with you in a theological debate pal.
OF course, judging from post 79 by Priya, and all of Bens words, I would not be alone in that :)
Get an education. Get a better (and real) church/denomination, and in time, come back and apologize to us. We will accept it graciously.
Comment by Gene — April 19, 2011 @ 2:43 pm
Gene, you are obviously in some sort of cult and not a Church of God or you would not be the slanderous person you are. I won’t apologize for the gospel ever and I will keep on preaching. My husband is a pastor who preaches on sin – all sin. He preaches the Word of God not some washed out crap that you were taught!
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 2:59 pm
“You are all fools. (it calls you that in the bible) You keep returning to your sin as a dog returns to his vomit, (also in the bible)”
The Bible: Making Dumb People Feel Superior For 1700 Years.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 19, 2011 @ 3:01 pm
“I laugh at your persecution”?
I’m a little confused. Are you saying you’re laughing at the idea of someone else suffering persecution-which would make you an asshole-or are you saying you laugh at the meanies in this comments thread, who you seem to think are persecuting you by, um, mocking or criticising your beliefs-which would make you an idiot, or at least someone who hasn’t a clue what actual persecution is.
Comment by Bill S — April 19, 2011 @ 3:16 pm
I hardly consider the Presbyterian Church a “cult”. More like the “Buick of Christianity” as a Jewish pal called it once. :)
And YOUR denomination might be…what?
I have slandered no one. I have merely pointed out facts that you cannot refute.
Your “evidence” (still waiting!) wont hold up, because it cannot. Accept things on faith (thats part of religion after all) but, to say your beliefs are backed up by science? Sorry. That dog don’t hunt, as we sat in the south.
Now, once again, you need to go and find a real church. You need to get a real religious education, and, after you have done so, you need to come back here, after finally learning how to speak to people like a lady, which by then I am sure you will have done, and apologize for your tone, your ignorance, and your hatefullness.
I wish you the best with it, and please know that we will accept your apology with all (At that time) due respect and grace.
Go find a congregation of one of the denominations I listed above. They should be of great help to you. Good luck.
Comment by Gene — April 19, 2011 @ 3:17 pm
Bill…Vics’ comment is a common thing fundys do now. They scream “persecution!” the moment someone stands up to them, or does not them have their way in telling everyone else how to live, or corrects the inaccuracies of their poorly educated views on theology/science/medicine/psychology, etc. It is basically the last reaction from a group that thinks its supposed to set the tone for all things, and is stunned to find even most of the Church disagrees with them, and society as a whole sees them as a cancer spreading fanaticism and bigotry.
Its a pity they give all Christians a bad name, but, thats just how it is.
Comment by Gene — April 19, 2011 @ 3:20 pm
Vic said “Modern archaeology has provided solid extrabiblical corroboration of historical fact otherwise known to us only from scripture. It has proved beyond all reasonable doubt the accuracy of the Bible as a historical document.
Even still, it should come as no surprise that some scholars remain determined to discredit the Bible as a divinely inspired historical record, stubbornly overlooking the overwhelming array of proof and documentation. Carnal man is disiclined to accept and submit to God’s Word.
These critics will blithely gloss over mounds of facts and plain evidence rather than accept the Bible for what it is. Some few have even chosen to pervert and twist the clear testimony of archaeology to suit thier own purposes-deliberately misinterpreting and misrepresenting that facts rather than concede the authenticity of scripture!
Nevertheless, the past 150 years have witnessed remarkable archaeological confirmation of the Old Testament.”.
You keep making this unsupported claim to have all this evidence and proof and yet you provide none. There’s a reason for that.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 3:42 pm
Vic, if science has proven the bible true then why do 93% of the members of the National Academy of Science not believe in a personal god such as your Jesus?
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 3:44 pm
III. SALVATION – Presbyterians believe
Presbyterians believe that God so loved us–while we were dead in trespasses and sins–that He sent forth His only begotten Son to redeem us. The Lord Jesus Christ, pre-existent with the Father, by Whom He created the worlds, came to earth by being born of the Virgin Mary. He, the Eternal Son, took upon Himself our nature, lived a sinless life as a man and died on the Cross in a sacrifice which somehow paid the price of our redemption from sin-we know not how but we believe it. In a victory over death and the grave our Lord rose from the dead and returned to the Father from Whom He sent the Holy Spirit to apply to those who would believe the effects of His work. In the gift of the Holy Spirit-by grace through faith-the originally sinful nature of man is transfigured to become Godly and possessed of the capacity to be God-like. This “new life” begins now in the hearts of those who believe in and receive Jesus Christ. It continues into and through eternity.
This is what you are suppose to believe – Christ died for our sins but not so we could continue the lifestyle, we are SUPPOSE to repent and turn away from it.
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 3:58 pm
Man, that document says nothing about homosexuality, Vic. You’re still relying on your own illiterate interpretation of the scripture about homosexuality in order to condemn. Why do you spend so much time leaving poorly worded/spelled comments on gay websites? Are you being paid to troll, or are you just a sad lonely person, and this is the only way you can spend time with gay people without feeling like you’re sinning?
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 19, 2011 @ 4:04 pm
Hmmm – I didn’t realize this was a “gay” website. This started out about a story where a little girl was taken away from her mother. BTW, I didn’t write any poorly spelled information the “Presbyterian” website did. Do you really need me to pull out what scripture says about homosexuality? Surely you heard about SODOM and Gomorrah. The sin is DETESTIBLE to Him. Sorry, I didn’t write the Book, I just read it.
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 4:42 pm
No, the poor spelling and wording was absent from the Presbyterian quote, but present in everything else you have written. The fact that this is a gay website is emblazoned on the top, but you haven’t shown reading comprehension to be your strong suit up to this point (also a problem when you read the Bible apparently), so I wouldn’t expect you to exhibit it now.
Your understanding of the Sodom and Gomorrah story is retarded at best, and suggests that you have never heard of a concordance, or know how to use one, since the meaning of that story is spelled out fifteen times in the Bible. Go see if one of your “smart” friends can help you with that.
The word is spelled “detestable,” and we know you didn’t write the Bible. Nomadic tribesmen and, later, religious leaders did. You can’t prove that anyone else had a hand in it, and the fact that you cling to that notion with no evidence is sad.
Later.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 19, 2011 @ 4:46 pm
Vic I’m still waiting for that proof that the bible is true that you repeatedly claim you have.
If you knew Christianity you’d know that the sin of Sodom wasn’t gayness, it was inhospitality.
Vic, the essence of morality is “Do whatever you want, but harm no one”. Gays and lesbians in loving same sex relationships are harming no one and are by definition behaving morally. You are harming them with your attempts to destroy their relationships and deny them equal rights. You by definition are behaving immorally. We have no need to repent, you do.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 4:51 pm
Quick, Vic.
HOW DID THE ANIMALS ENTER THE ARK?
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 19, 2011 @ 4:53 pm
Father, Do Not forgive them for they Do know and Reject you and your truth.
I hope when I grow up I can be as smart as you all are -NOT. Must leave you all now before I say something I have to repent for.
Comment by Vic — April 19, 2011 @ 5:00 pm
LOL, I hope you find your revenge fantasies fullfilling Vic – maybe they’ll make up for the life you’re wasting.
Comment by Priya Lynn — April 19, 2011 @ 5:05 pm
Hahaha, Vic, you’re weird. It’s sad that you’re such a weak man that you need to make up stories about how your imaginary strong friend is going to take revenge on all the people who make fun of you.
Comment by Evan Hurst — April 19, 2011 @ 5:42 pm
Vic– please answer my question. PLEASE~!
Comment by Ben In Oakland — April 19, 2011 @ 6:36 pm
Great Gobs of Goo!
I stumbled on this thread and gotta tell you it’s, well let’s call them people, like Vic and Jon that remind me why I’m an atheist. You guys missed the time of The Inquisition by a few centuries. Have a lovely fantasy! No disrespect to authentically spiritual souls.
Comment by Tony — April 19, 2011 @ 7:36 pm
Wow Vic, asking got NOT to forgive someone–that’s not very Christian–actually, come to think of it, it is. It’s petty, judgemental, that’s exactly what I think of when I hear the word “Christian”.
Comment by Daniel — April 19, 2011 @ 7:52 pm
No kidding, Tony. Not one person in this comments thread has actually harmed Vic in any way, unless hurting his fee-fees counts. Yet he thinks we all deserve to be tortured forever. Pretty pathetic.
Comment by Bill S — April 19, 2011 @ 8:11 pm
Jesus said that in order to follow him you WILL suffer and you WILL be hated “as I have been hated”. Therefore I feel that Lisa is undergoing something called ‘purification’. Basically if you are a christian and havent offended anyone (not intentionally, just by mere practice of the Bible.)then you’re doing it wrong. God doesnt want your kind of faithiness. GO.
Comment by Desiree — December 14, 2011 @ 11:21 pm
PS and actually its a good sign that God would consider someone worthy of such struggles. She is probably honored that God doesn’t consider this “more than she can bear”.
Comment by Desiree — December 14, 2011 @ 11:22 pm
When did international kidnapping become “purification”? Seems like pure nonsense and a way to rationalize criminal, outlaw behavior.
I have a better way of testing her fanaticism: Lock her up in the pokey for a few years for the crimes she has committed.
Comment by Wayne Besen — December 14, 2011 @ 11:31 pm
@Vic
I am an Archaeologist, I have a Masters from UCL and am currently researching and writing my PhD, specialising in the archaeology of Ancient Egypt and the Levant (that’s the countries that lie on the shores of the eastern Mediterranean).
I can hereby tell you that you are categorically mis-informed, nay, wrong in your baseless assertions.
The very fact that you neglected to produce ANY evidence to back up your rantings indicates that you are merely vomiting up regurgitated -opinions- that you heard brayed from the pulpit.
Perhaps you should try carrying out some independent empirical research yourself, rather than relying on your preacher and religious pseudo-scientists to feed you these grossly inaccurate statements.
Comment by Peter Hargmier — December 15, 2011 @ 8:48 am