Comments on: Fight Inequality with Inequality?

By: RJ

RJ — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:44:07 +0000

“As far as I know there was no risk of arrest”

DB, the Providence action, albeit unplanned, did have arrest risk. In fact, both sides (including Brian Brown) were threatened with arrest.

By: Merlyn

Merlyn — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:48:11 +0000

Anger is more than justified from the GLBT side. These people are voting away/blocking our just civil rights. No civil rights movement has got much of anyplace holding hands and singing “Kumbaya”. Civil disobedience is necessary in this country to get people’s attention. Compared to the jerk with the sign with the nooses on it advocating our MURDER, people shouting, using noisemaking bottles, or standing in front of these NOM jerks under umbrellas that form the colours of the rainbow is tame indeed.

And actually, I tend to believe that these were counter-protests. Hey, you have a right to spew hate and bigotry, NOM; we have the right to protest it. No one said the protest had to be silent or passive.

By: Michael Airhart

Michael Airhart — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:01:32 +0000

db, I agree this wasn’t civil disobedience. I wasn’t saying it was.

By: db

db — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:43:18 +0000

I’m not sure what happened in Las Vegas, but can the actions here really be called “civil disobedience”? As far as I know there was no risk of arrest, no sit-down strike, no blocking streets or doors. It seems to me not so much as “civil disobedience” as a counter-protest. Even if they’re making noise is that actually illegal?

By: Priya Lynn

Priya Lynn — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:35:20 +0000

Lisa, if the ends cannot justify the means was it wrong for the Germans hiding Jews in Nazi times to lie to the soldier at the door and say “There are no Jews here.”?

By: Daniel

Daniel — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:26:44 +0000

Lisa, I have to disagree that it’s ever a good idea to ignore an accuser. When you ignore them their misinformation spreads with nothing to counteract it. While I will say it’s best not to counter their claims with profanity or violence we should never let people bear false testimony against us and just let it slide off our backs.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:52:02 +0000

While I fully understand the anger and it’s role in promoting an agenda of equality I am always disappointed when I hear stories like this one.

First of all, often it best to simply ignore an accuser, it deflates them and makes them seem like they are fighting and angry war against no one. These aren’t the type to engage in meaningful conversation so why waste your breath and get worked up? Plus, they enjoy seeing how worked up we become.

Secondly, regardless of our accusers behavior until we recognize the humanity of each person and treat them with dignity we can’t expect to be offered dignity ourselves. The ends cannot justify the means. It’s the good old golden rule, time tested.

By: ben in oakland

ben in oakland — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:07:54 +0000

read a great many comments here and elsewhere about the massive failure of this NOM hateapalooza. If we measure that by what we think their goals are, then of course it is a failure.

But I have a much different take on it. We also know that most of their arugments are about protecting heterosexual and or religious privilege, not actually about protecting marriage, family, children, faith, or any of it.

Why should thisd tour be any different in m.o.? We already know that NOM is capable of a great deal of dishonesty, and that its most basic arguments have pretty much devolved to “we’re not bigots, we’re victims.” The same old hatred and fear the queers, gays-are-gonna-get-your-children fear-mongering and homophobia dressed up in its shiny best.

I think that THAT is the place to start to understand what they are doing, and that it is hardly a fail. It isn’t about us or marriage, any more than their arguments are ever about the reality of marriage. This whole bus tour exists for two purposes: to tell their moneybags supporters that see, we’re doing something, thus protecting their cash cow, and to generate (they hope), loud and negative responses so that they have some actual proof for their we’re-the-victims schtick.

If this is the case– and i believe it must be for them to be consistent– then the very best thing that we can do is ignore them entirely. And added bonus would be to show their moneyed supporters that this whole thing is a fail, hopefully while catching one of the pricipals in flagrante dleicto.

It does not do any good to show it to us.

By: Tim W

Tim W — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:16:17 +0000

RJ,
I am all for civil disobedience. I love the stuff that GetEqual is doing. Having said that I think actions against NOM are wrong. NOM’s bus tour of hate has shown to be a huge failing. We don’t need to be in their face to show the failings of it. One just needs to look at the crowds they are attracting. There is a smart use of civil disobedience and less than productive use of it. Let’s use it where it does the most good.

By: a. mcewen

a. mcewen — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:29:48 +0000

As predatory as it sounds, maybe we need to approach this like a game of chess. NOM is obviously thinking strategically. It would do us well to do the same. Not necessarily act emotionless but put it in our heads that every move we make must be done to push ourselves forward.