The wingnut reactions are a-startin’ to trickle in! Oh look, it is the Family Research Council, a known and certified hate group, so designated because they have a policy of spreading fear, hatred and lies about LGBT people, chiming in:
Apple’s old logo was colored by the rainbow–and it looks like their business philosophy still is! In a stunning decision, Apple withered under pressure from the gay community and censored an application that offers help to people struggling with homosexuality.
No, they removed an app that demonizes an entire community and lies to people who have already been demonized and damaged into thinking that the way they are is either not good enough, evil or both. Nice try with the joke-making and the rainbow comment, though.
Even though Apple’s own store gave Exodus a thumbs-up for content, the app vanished overnight–another victim of the growing campaign to silence Christianity in America.
Yes, we are trying to silence you. I mean, right now, on the blog of Truth Wins Out, we are “silencing Christians” by repeating your words verbatim!
“There is no place for ‘ex-gay’ therapy on the Apple platform,” said Mike Jones, whose fringe group started the uproar.
You hear that, Mike? Change.org is a “fringe group.”
Ironically, there seems to be plenty of room for applications like the Gay/Lesbian News Reader, HRC Buying for Workplace Equality Guide, Jack’d gay “social network,” Grindr “gay, bi & curious guy finder,” or Gay Dance Radio. What about the millions of Americans who are offended by those apps?
They don’t demonize or lie about people. You do, though. And so did the Exodus app.
Would 146,000 signatures be enough to rid iTunes of them?
Nope. See above. Plus, closeted fundamentalists would die without Grindr.
In this instance, all Exodus does is offer compassion and help for people who choose to seek it.
No, they offer lies and false hope to people who are pressured by their society, their families, their churches and their communities into believing that they are sick and in need of a cure, even though every grown-up medical and mental health association agrees that homosexuality is normal, while reparative therapy is harmful. Try again!
Jeff Buchanan of Exodus is tired of the app being misrepresented in the press. “It’s being touted as a ‘gay cure’ app,” he says, “and nothing could be further from the truth. We present a redemptive, Biblical worldview on sexuality… it’s a message of love and acceptance of those [who] are struggling with same-sex attraction.”
Oh, Jeffers. We know you don’t change gay people into straight people. God, everybody knows that by now. You’ve been consistently moving the goalposts for years on that one! But no, your “worldview” for gay people is loneliness, shame, isolation, self-hatred, etc. You don’t even know the meaning of the words “love” or “acceptance,” because you’ve been brainwashed with such a disgusting, transmogrified version of them for so long. Cha-ching, though, right?
In other words, Apple’s censorship has nothing to do with “tolerance.” This is about silencing anything and anyone who challenges homosexuality.
No, it is about a private corporation following its own policies and responding to its customers.
Americans need to wake up and realize that religious liberty is heading in the same direction as Exodus’s app–toward extinction! In this environment, it doesn’t matter what the facts are.
Well, that should be a comfy environment for the Family Research Council!
Meanwhile, liberals are on a crusade to end bullying–when the biggest bullies are the ones in their own movement!
Yeah, all those gay teenagers killed themselves because of us. Right. I often wonder whether the talking mouths at groups like FRC will ever have a moment in their lives when the pain they’ve caused to innumerable people and families, all in the service of their disproven, patriarchal, anti-scientific worldview, will suddenly dawn on them. I’d hate to be there for that moment.
What do you call 146,000 people ganging up on a company because they don’t like someone else’s point of view?
Petition-signers.
Bullies!
Oh, oops, we’re bullies. Let me know when anti-gay extremists start jumping off bridges because the gays have bullied them so much. Maybe then we’ll talk about how badly you have been “bullied.”
I guess they still don’t understand why we started the petition, even though we’ve said it clearly, in English, for days. But let’s not be cute about people’s “points of view.” It would be the same if the Ku Klux Klan [another SPLC-certified hate group] wanted an iPhone app. I mean, certainly the KKK has a “point of view,” and their app would be rejected because their “point of view” is eliminationist against an entire minority group. Just like the Family Research Council’s point of view. Just like Exodus’s point of view. That is sort of the point that wingnuts are missing, I think.
They also know that if they had to debate conservatives out in the open on issues like marriage and morality, they’d lose!
Uh, we do it all the time, and we win. There was this thing called “The Prop 8 trial,” and the Religious Right brought its best and brightest [I know, I'm using that phrase very loosely], and they ended up being used for floor-mopping purposes by the plaintiffs. It would’ve been must see teevee if the very same Religious Right hadn’t been so afraid of the general public seeing what they look like when they have to defend themselves by the standards of a court of law.
Anyway, that’s about it. It must be comforting for Exodus to see hate groups rising up to defend their honor. Until the next wingnut crying spell, I’m signing off!










So Daniel and Priya, do you think homosexuality is primarily genetic? I think few scientists would agree with you. It is you who are misinformed and incapable of seeing the evidence. Even most pro-gay people acknowledge the genetics play a minor role. Which is why research has moved on to brain studies and pre-natal factors (which I also think are lacking; but basically, the gay agenda cannot ceom to grips with same sex attraction being nurtured).
esp, I don’t really know. There seems to be a biological component. If you insist on it being genetic to be natural then I have no interest in continuing this. I’m telling you right now that no one nurtured same sex attraction in me and my time in ex-gay therapy did nothing to change it. I don’t think either Priya or I have insisted that it is primarily genetic. I think we both would rather leave that up to scientists. I think that you continuting to insist that we state that we do just shows more of your own bias.
As to your statement that Priya’s twisting your words–I think you’re doing a great twisting job yourself.
No, Esp, you’re not trying to field my questions, you’re running away from them screaming because you sense that they’ll expose your irrationality and bigotry. I’ve asked you repeatedly to explain, if you’re an atheist why you think its benefical for gays to attempt to change orientations and other than one string of vague b******t about male/female yin/yang you’ve refused to answer honestly.
You’ve repeatedly asserted that religious people deserve the right to coerce gay people to change orientations so you have used religion to justify this. You are obviously lying about being an atheist.
You’ve repeatedly claimed you’re not invested in whether or not gay people should change orientation and yet here you are going on and on and on, justifying this oppression and baselessly claiming gays can change orientation.
You say “I guess I think it’s beneficial if people can successfully pursue their desire to have opposite attractions and relationships.”.
That’s just it, you’re guessing in spite of all evidence to the contrary. You know that encouraging gays to attempt the doomed attempt to change orientations leads some people to suicide and yet you’re happy to overlook that and make the outrageous statement that “it’s beneficial if people can successfully pursue their desire to have opposite attractions and relationships”. You evil b*****d! People are killing themselves in despair and you’re trying to claim this oppression and coercion is beneficial. Tell me then, don’t hide like a cowared, just how is it beneficial?! What possible benefit do you think this brings to justify the death of innocent people?!
You claim you support people’s decision to make up their own minds about how to deal with their orientation and yet you support organizations and apps like Exodus’s which push the idea that gayness “isn’t god’s best” and “satan is using gay people to destroy the world” and “if you have a gay relationship you’ll be eternally tortured”. And then you’ve got the f*****g gall to claim TWO spreads misinformation and SHAMING?! If it weren’t for the misinformation and shaming spread by the anti-gay organizations you wholeheartedly support there certainly wouldn’t be anyone “choosing” to suppress their gayness!
You say “That homosexual behavior is observed in animals doesn’t prove anything”.
You’ve got your blinders on. It obviously proves that gayness occurs naturally and is not man made.
“And, for crying out loud, I have stated at least 3 times that genes can play a role (albeit small, and not in the sense of a “gay gene” like TWO and others promote).”.
The twins studies shoe genes play a highly significant role, no reputable scientist disputes that. And NO ONE at TWO said there is a “gay gene” that’s entirely responsible for gayness, so drop the straw man b******t.
If you honestly want gays to have the right to choose whether or not to accept their gayness then you MUST oppose all outsiders telling gay people that its wrong/sinful/undesirable to be gay. But you won’t do that because you’re a liar, you don’t want people to be free to choose, you support organizations that coerce gay people into thinking they should change, organizations that intentionally psycologically injure people and then sell themselves as the “cure”. f**k you you a*****e.
Esp said “So Daniel and Priya, do you think homosexuality is primarily genetic?”.
You a*****e. When I said this in #103, what part if it didn’t you understand?!:
“I never said it was primarily genetic. What I said was that it is genetic/biological.”
Esp said “I think few scientists would agree with you.”.
You’ve repeatedly demonstrated that what you think has no bearing on reality.
ESp said “It is you who are misinformed and incapable of seeing the evidence. Even most pro-gay people acknowledge the genetics play a minor role.”.
Show us that, you bullshiter. You won’t because you can’t.
Esp said “the gay agenda cannot ceom to grips with same sex attraction being nurtured).”.
You’ve been making that baseless unsupported claim over and over and yet you have no evidence to support it…because there is none. You are not rational, you are not fact based, you just state what you wish was the truth and make the empty claim that it is.
80% of homophobes are turned on by gay sex:
http://www.petertatchell.net/lgbt_rights/homophobia/bigots_are_buggers.htm
That’s all you need to know about esp. Telling choice of name, by the way. No atheist would choose “esp” as a screen name.
“It’s obviously silly for me to come here and put forth facts and reason. Most here are too vested in the outcome to have a rational perspective.”
PPFFFFFFF!
AHAHAHAHAAHAA!
HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Oh god, seriously? Seriously? You have no idea how much you’re projecting here. NO IDEA. How can anyone take that statement seriously when you’ve repeatedly demonstrated that any data that you don’t like you dismiss as fabricated by the Gaaaay Agenda, and then continually demonstrate to people who actually know how evolution works that you don’t?
That’s what it is, esp. You aren’t a bigot because evolution compels you to be. You’ve simply appropriated evolution to justify your bigoted feelings, because you know that there’s no other way to justify it.
Actually, I can’t even say that’s true. What you’ve appropriated is a botched, oversimplified version of evolution that is as close to reality as Kent Hovind’s assertions of how dinosaurs work.
Hahaha oh man, there’s soda everywhere! You owe me a new keyboard, bro. Priceless!
Y’all must be terribly bored. f**k this stupid little troll. Absolutely nothing original has come from its keyboard. It could be a phobobot for all we know.
You’re right, Tom. I’m done with this dishonest, deceptive, and non-responsive a*****e.
Yup, Tom, it’s pretty clear he’s beyond reason, just caught up in his own little world where he can pick and choose what science is real science, and where evolution is a moral code to be followed, just as long as there are still enough a******s around that he won’t get smacked like the ignorant s**t he is the moment he opens his cake hole. This is obviously why he doesn’t call for sterilizing/killing disabled people or making apologetics for racial oppression and oppression of infertile people, which one would expect if he really believed his crazyass b******t.
At this point, he’s only a convenient target for ridicule. And he sure is ridiculous.
Folks….he has lost, made a fool of himself, and proven nothing except that he has a closed mind.
He believes what he wants to believe, and ignores all proff that contradicts him.
The App he champions, is gone.
The medical ideas he champions, are not supported by the medical community.
The evidence about gay people and even animals exhibiting same sex attraction, he ignores.
He lost the app
He has lost the argument
He knows that people like him are now scorned as bigots and fanatics….(this may, I think, be news to him)
his motto is “I believe what I believe, and nothing will change it”. Thats his problem, not ours.
IF he had any influence, or represented the majority, or made a better argument, he might be dangerous.
As it is, he is a bigoted (sorry ESP, your very questions about whether Evan would want a gay kid prove your state of mind) uninformed, and mainly, good for humor.
welcome to America ESP :)
Unless you do some growing up, its not going to be so comfortable for you (and if you warp them with your ideas and misconcepions, its gonna be REALLY hard for your kids)
Regarding the atheist issue, esp may very well be an athiest. After all, all being an atheist means is that you don’t believe in a god–you can still be a homophobic idiot.
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@Mike.
Good call. Glad you were here to take care of that.
He mentioned believing in yin/yang male/female duality (lolwhut duality, really? So where do intersex people fit in?) earlier, which means that if he is an atheist, then he’s one of those woo-woo atheists who don’t believe in gods but believe in magical things that have just as little evidence.
Course, he could also be lying about that, because fundies are really good at concern trolling and some are smart enough to know that if they claim they’re an atheist, then it’ll win them a little bit of credibility with their opponents.
But for all we know, he’s telling the truth, and bigoted homophobic atheists do exist (and use the same a*s-backwards “logic” he was throwing out), but they’re raaaaare. Like super rare. And usually lonely, because the only atheists who will give them the time of day are other dumbasses who already believe the same s**t they do.
I’m willing to bet that his atheism is just some contrarian b******t meant to p**s off religious people instead of a natural result of logic and reason.
I’ll bet he never even googled the Whiptail Lizards. :c
Bruce, science is not really my hobby but I do like it. Thanks for checking.
But you don’t like it enough to understand it, do you?
Pro-heterosexual is probably the least politically correct and unfashionable position to hold these days, way worse than atheist.
There’s another way of putting that: you are anti-gay. I can appreciate why you don’t wish to put it that way.
You’ve been babbling about people here having a stake in the outcome, but your own bias is practically written all over you in neon lights. Here…look at this…
Priya, my argument from an atheistic and evolutionary perspective is that same sex attraction is nurtured, not natured.
Okay…but then all of a sudden…
Priya, I don’t dispute that it could be partly genetic.
You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. Do you understand why? It’s nurture…well…maybe a little genetic…but it isn’t really…except when even I can’t deny genes play a roll. This isn’t complicated. When the facts slip out from under you, your rhetoric about them changes, but not your opinions. You’re anti-gay. Not pro the facts. The facts can’t influence your opinions because your opinions are based on your anti-gay position.
There’s a word for people like that. It begins with a ‘B’…
And here’s something that I regret slipped by me…
And don’t expect super-equal rights (gays can get married, by the way, as long as one is a male and the other is female).
This is sophistry. You’re arguing here that gay people aren’t discriminated against because they can always marry a person of the opposite sex, just like anyone else. That’s a fundamentally dishonest argument and it really shows what’s going on with you.
If a totalitarian state passed a law forbidding Christian religious worship, could they plausibly argue the law didn’t discriminate against Christians, because everyone, atheists included, had to obey it too?
An honest person arguing in good faith here would acknowledge laws that restrict marriage only to opposite sex couples discriminate against homosexuals and at least try to justify it. But not you. You’re not arguing in good faith here. But that’s been obvious for quite a while now. Look…
Yes, I think that humans are heterosexual creatures. I’m not justifying anything with religion.
But you haven’t justified anything, other then to toss out the “Australian Study” as a better because…
The problem with many of the twin studies is that they method in which they solicit does not always lead to a good representation. Which is why the Australian study which used the national twin registry, had the highest number of subjects and reported the lowest percentage of homosexual twin pairs has been the most credible to date.
But this is wrong, even by your standards. You clearly got tuned into this “study” from the Jones and Yardhouse study, “Ex-Gays? A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation”. That study was itself flawed by selection biases of the authors, but never mind. Jones has cited that study often as evidence that there is no genetic component to sexual orientation and without a doubt you got it from him or someone else citing him because your boilerplate is exactly like his.
Here’s what they found about about the Australian Twin Registry study over at Box Turtle Bulletin…
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/18/792#comment-2740
Emphasis mine. So…dig it. The Australian twin study has it’s own bad case of selection bias. But… Even… Better… it was conducted by the one of the people who set up the registry in the first place. No…that’s not how you do science.
My point here, and I want to emphasize this, isn’t that the study was flawed, but that you didn’t care enough to really look at it to see whether it supported your anti-gay agenda or not. You leaped at it gratefully because it supported your prejudices. You say you “like” science, yet you never bothered to explore beyond the self congratulating echo chamber of your little ex-gay world what this study really did and really said. You represented that study here as being drawn from “the national twin registry”, probably the same way your ex-gay sources did, as though it were some sort of government registry of all the twins in Australia when in fact it was a privately operated voluntary registry that only had maybe 20 percent of Australian twins in it and those were put there by family willing to be part of health research. No…that’s not how you do science. But then you really aren’t very interested in science are you?
You do indeed have a stake in the outcome. That fact is staringly obvious. The evidence that homosexuality is genetic in nature, if not exclusively so, and that it works just fine in a Darwinian world, can only be wrong. Not because it Is wrong, but because you are anti-gay.
He’s just your classic troll. There must be a checklist available somewhere, if only there were a way to search…
One is to accuse your opponents of being vulgar/insulting, which absolves you of the duty of responding substantively ~ check
Another is to accuse your opponents of being to irrational to discuss the issue calmly. And then wonder why you even bother to talk to such clods ~check
Yet another is to accuse your opponent of misrepresenting your positions on the issue (I mean boring side issue, which it usually is with a troll), even though everyone can scroll back and read what you wrote. ~ check
There are more I am sure.
What the heck is the ‘Gay Agenda?’ I have been an out and involved gay man for 5 decades and I am still wondering! Oh… and thanks to TWO for all you do.
@Clift Thanks for all that YOU do, just by being an awesome out/involved gay man for five damn decades. Salut!
And one other thing…
Evan, would you want your kids to be gay?
Evan, do you think gay kids are happier and healthier than straight kids? Just a question.
No, that wasn’t just a question. You know perfectly well that gay kids have in rough in this society, (though it is getting better as the years go by. I sure couldn’t imagine taking my high school crush to the prom back in 1971…).
People like you are part of that problem. People like you, and the ex-gay soul grinders you are championing here. Here’s what your just a question was about: dumping your own guilt for what you and your ex-gay pals are doing to innocent kids, onto the adult gay community, so you don’t have to look yourself in the bathroom mirror every morning, and see a child abuser. Teaching a gay kid, a teenager just starting to cope with their changing bodies and their awakening libidos, to regard themselves as broken, to loath themselves whenever their emerging sexuality tugs at them, is a kind of child sexual abuse. Do not wonder why we are so determined to put a stop to it.
“No, that wasn’t just a question. You know perfectly well that gay kids have in rough in this society…”
That’s because he thinks “normalcy” is a good reason to be straight. “I think it is generally more desirable to be heterosexual for a variety of internal and external reasons (procreation, male/female yin/yang, normalcy, etc).”
See, heterosexuality is “normal”. Just like being white is “normal”. Or being male is “normal”. This, of course, justifies treating minorities as “abnormal”, and if the minorities are negatively affected by this institutionalized prejudice, then, well, it’s just proof of how “abnormal” they are. And the answer isn’t to put a stop to the oppression, it’s simply to encourage the “abnormal” people to be ashamed of their “abnormality” and to want to be “normal”.
He steeps in a reeking cesspool of privilege and prejudice, completely unaware that his logic applies just as easily to racial and gender oppression, and we know this because it HAS been used to justify racial and gender oppression. He uses “pro-heterosexual” like white supremacists use “pro-white” and anti-choice people use “pro-life”.
Oh, he says, but unlike the battles won by racial and gender civil rights activists, it’s only with gay people that society will realize what silly people they are, revert all the progress made, and express their god(since evolution is a moral code now, he’s pretty much turned it into a god-figure)-given right as the majority to stomp all over minorities.
Because, for some completely inexplicable reason known only to esp, LGBT people just deserve it.
I wonder if he’s aware exactly of what sort of pig-ignorant tool he’s being.