I adore this clip. Dr. Drew hosted Alan Chambers of Exodus International, who was forced to listen as KC and Larry Jansson, the married gay couple we featured who met at Love In Action in Memphis, calmly explained that everything Chambers had said was simply not true. Chambers continues to claim that Exodus doesn’t do reparative therapy, that Exodus doesn’t tell gay people that they’re disordered and/or going to hell, because on some level he knows that for him to tell the truth about who they are and what they do would damage the credibility of the “ex-gay” industry even more than it is already.
UPDATE: Hi, Wayne here adding to what Evan said. Alan Chambers denies that his organization participates or endorses reparative therapy. However, when one goes to Exodus Books on Chambers’ website, there are books about reparative therapy prominently listed. In the picture below, one can see two such therapy books sold on the Exodus website.
Clearly, Chambers speaks out of both sides of his mouth and dissembles when in front of secular audiences. To say that Chambers is truth challenged is not a matter of opinion. It is an indisputable, well-established fact.
Also shown on this page is the book Out of Egypt: One Woman’ Journey Out of Lesbianism by Jeanette Howard. In this book she writes, “Choosing to leave the lesbian life brings us into direct conflict with the satanic realm….only when we understand and implement spiritual warfare can our walk into wholeness be successful.”
If Chambers does not think Exodus condemns people to Hell, then why is he promoting and profiting off of books such as this one?
Finally, Chambers likes to say that Exodus does not “change” people. (at least in front of secular audiences) Which is interesting, because as Larry Jansson eloquently pointed out, Exodus recruits new clients with promises of, you guessed it, “change” which is sold to desperate people on slick billboards. Clearly, Exodus either works to “change” people from gay to straight, or the group should be sued for false advertising. The billboards do not lie, but apparently, Alan Chambers does with remarkable ease.
Is it just me or does lying come to Alan Chambers as easily and naturally as breathing air? Clearly, Chambers has severe character issues that he must deal with.
Much as I usually dislike Dr. Pinsky (generally opportunistic), I now have profound respect for him, and must re-examine my views.
Alan Chambers must be a congenital liar. He gets on national TV and lies with a straight face. His ministry does talk quite a bit about Hell for instance.
Chambers must be really ashamed of what he does for a living, because he consistently denies he does what he actually does each day.
He also denies Exodus does reparative therapy. Then why is Exodus Books promote Dr. Joseph Nicolosi’s book, “Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality”?
Alan Chambers is truth challenged to say the least. I could call him much worse, but will refrain because this is a family website.
How does a man like Chambers live with himself and look in the mirror each day? It is clear that for a man to dissemble to such a degree requires a lack of a conscience.
Alan Chambers is a bad man. He needs help.
http://exodusbooks.org/Books/
Larry and KC did an excellent job in this clip of holding Chambers accountable and calling him on his b******t.
Great to see!
Excellent video clip. Exodus and ex-gay “therapies” can only exist today by presenting a prettier picture of love and acceptance but they are the anti-thesis of this. Their entire approach is based on there being something inherently sinful/wrong about having same-gendered sexual/romantic relationships. They misappropriate words of social justice and psychological terminology to justify their existence and do so much damage in the process. Truth will win out!
Get a real job you lying sack of s**t. The man tells you he WENT THROUGH your program and what message he got and what he was told and you come back with, “That’s just not true.” It’s money for doing nothing, folks. That why these dirtbags do it.
They really did do great.
One need not look far to find people like Alan Chambers; there are just too many gay men out there who are in total denial of their own homosexuality !
What sad lives they must lead !
TRUTH WINS OUT ! (and sets you free); get it Alan ??
The larger question with Chambers is that he might just have severe character flaws and may be one of those types who is a pathological liar.
When I interviewed him for my book he claimed that he “used to steal money.”
http://www.waynebesen.com/2006/09/alan-chambers-i-used-to-steal-money.html
We might just be dealing with an individual who can’t help himself with his lying habit. He may need help for this problem before he can deal with coming out of the closet.
I think it goes without saying that Alan has a problem telling the truth. Did you note how he avoided a direct response when Dr.Drew ask him if he still thought about men? He said he didn’t desire a RELATIONSHIP with men yet admitted he might be attracted, but wouldn’t act on that temptation! They can’t say they engage in reparative therapy because none of them are therapists..Some are ministers and can do pastoral counseling..but they will be sued if they “counsel” yet that’s what Living Waters program does…it counsels them to change. Alan says some “don’t make it” What does that mean…and what happens to the men and women who don’t make it? They didn’t change and they are shamed further for a failure to be straight. I spent 10 years lying to those who attended Paraklete and Exodus…telling them change was possible. We All did. Alan,Bob Davies, Joe Dallas, Alan Medinger and every other leader who endorsed Exodus. Janet Boynes is another speaker of deception like Alan. She prays for those who seek her out. What does she pray will happen? they preach change…by any name, it’s still therapy and they should be sued for mal-practice!
I was very disappointed with the Dr. Drew Show on “Can You Be Gay and Christian? Alan Chambers was constatnly lying boy can we say he broke one of the Ten Commandments: “THOU SHALL NOT LIE.” Dr. Drew failed to challenage Alan on this issue. Also there was no Theologain on the show to counter attack what the Scriptures say about only one man and one woman when we know that many of the great men of God had many wives or that Johnathan and David had a Love relationship…. Again very disappointing but the guys from Love In Action did a great job….
When I interviewed him for my book he claimed that he “used to steal money.”—-Well, considering the fraud he’s committing, it’s not ‘used to steal’, he’s *still* stealing money!
ps..is it just me, or does that face on the cover of Out of Egypt look like Bette Davis with orange makeup on? >:-P
Why is it when I see or hear people who have walked away, they have so much bitterness and anger in spirit still, such as what I saw from Janet Boynes.
It would seem that if they found the ‘truth’ and happiness that they had so long desired their happiness, calmness and ‘truth’ would seep through their pores in such a way that they wouldn’t be defensive, angry and bitter.
Am I way off on what I’m seeing?
If Alan Chambers is the alternative to homosexuality, I’ll be a big homo for a million years, thank you very much.
Exactly, Dawn. People who are happy don’t go around telling other people how unhappy the latter are.
oops, the first part of that should be “People who are truly happy….”
What an incredible job Larry and KC did at presenting their story. Their story is amazing and they are incredible at presenting it and with responding to and challenging Alan.
@Darlene Bogle:
“They preach change…by any name, it’s still therapy and they should be sued for mal-practice!”
Actually, I’m pretty sure it goes beyond malpractice, and right to unlicensed practice of medicine. In addition to a massive lawsuit, these folks should be prosecuted for fraud.
There is an answer it’s Jesus. Some people don’t realize it is a spirit that is causing them to be in bondage to a spirit of homosexuality. Just as some people are prone to lying, stealing, cheating, or other unclean desires. Until the spirit is cast out they are bound to that spirit. God knows what we are made of and exactly what is needed to cure our ills. Please read Romans 2:19-32, Leviticus 20:13, and Acts 2:38.
How I wish I could talk to Alan Chambers and tell him what I went through for over 20 years, at great expense, trying to change, all for nothing. Seven of those years were back in the 50′s at Mayo Clinic when “reparative therapy” was the treatment of the day with some in the psychiatric community. That was 3 days a week at my own expense–no medical insurance at that time. Ultimately, it was an old psychiatrist in private practice who helped me find my way. How Chambers and his ilk get away with such false advertising without getting prosecuted is the greatest sin of all.
Jerry
@sherand whaling It is that kind of thought and speech that brings so much torment to homosexual and bisexual people every day. I used to think that something was wrong with me because I found both men and women attractive. My church told me those thoughts were sinful and that I should pray to God to take away the demons of temptation and walk in God’s light. You know what? It didn’t work. Do you know why? Because doing that causes you to feel like you are worthless and diseased. But we’re not. What we feel is natural and quite frankly, no one’s business but our own. As for your “typical” biblical quotes, let me kindly point out that Leviticus was written for the Jews. They were laws for the Hebrews and their priests to follow. They do not apply to modern people. If you read Romans 1 and 2 together (like they were meant to be read), you will notice the word “therefore.” This word also means “because.” You will also notice “gave up natural relations…” this means that they were heterosexual and were CHANGED to homosexual behaviour by God and were “ashamed” of it. Which means this was a punishment and does not apply to LGBT people of today because we were never straight.
It’s awfully careless of the all-knowing, all-seeing, loving God to allow magic demons to run around f*****g up peoples’ lives. Why didn’t he just use his Super-Duper God powers to round them up and destroy them before they ever had a chance to interfere with His own plans? If your dog has fleas, do you wait it to come to you begging for your assistance? A God who treats humans worse than humans treat their pets doesn’t sound very loving to me.
Sherand Whaling, it sounds like you belong to one of the inferior trash versions of Christianity. The kind that are so badly educated and with such poor exegesis that they are still fundamentalists (the first cousins of the fundamentalists Islamic Jihad types).
Find a REAL church. The Lutherans, the Episcopalians, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterians, etc. Get a REAL knowledge of the religion, and then, come back and apologize to us,
Understood?
Till then, stop embarassing yourself
I’m thankful for your challenge to Exodus (in spite of disagreements I have with you). My church hides behind them; keeping the church from even asking the needed questions.
I know nothing about Alan Chambers. He occurs to me as not well.
I think Janet Boynes represents many women whose basic orientation has always been towards men–and spend a period of time in lesbian relationships (for varied reasons). When they decide to shift they reach out to find ways to make sense and to journey and Exodus is what they find.
I think it a legitimate journey they seek–and that is what I hear her saying. But they are stuck defending Exodus as a way to defend their choice.
The church world they are part of is more willing to then prop them up as some kind of spokesperson for “gay to straight” rather than create a community in which everyone can journey.
Do you believe everyone who seeks the “ex-gay” life (whatever that means), everyone connected with Exodus, is wrong to do so??
Ought they feel tortured for making that choice?
Exodus is nothing more than consumer fraud that creates a climate of homophobia, and then exploits vulnerable people who feel they need to change thanks to the negative, hateful messages of Exodus.
The doors of such a ministry should be closed for good. Clearly, the world would be much better without a group that engages in false and deceptive advertising and profits off the pain of innocent victims.
Truth Wins Out is 100% committed to closing Exodus down. We will accomplish this goal when it is all said and done. We will force Alan Chambers to get a real job one way or another.
@Wayne. I understand your commitment. I asked:
“Do you believe everyone who seeks the “ex-gay” life (whatever that means), everyone connected with Exodus, is wrong to do so??
Ought they feel tortured for making that choice?”
I’m just asking for clarity.
“exploits vulnerable people who feel they need to change” WB
What percent of Exodus “clients” do you think fit the “vulnerable people who feel they need to change” category?? Are any there with legitimate aspirations?
Do you think Exodus thinks any are there illegitimately–or do they ‘take all comers?’
I can answer this. They are not “wrong” to seek that, per se. It’s more that they wouldn’t feel the need to seek “help” from frauds like Alan Chambers if they hadn’t first been convinced they were sinners unworthy of “god” or whatever. Do you not see that we’re fighting FOR the people who go to those kinds of businesses for “help,” both before, during and during the inevitable, scarred aftermath?
I guess the name I used here was lovetruthlove–not truthlovetruth :((( But I’ll drop it either way as I think some took it as arrogant.
All I meant was to communicate I am very comfortable with seeking the truth–and change that might require of me; and that even if I had a piece of truth it really ceases to be truth at all if it cannot walk and live in the context of love.
@Evan. Yes I see that. But I think it a mistake to conclude persons with legitimate needs don’t end up choosing bad care. Happens all day every day–even in fields (e.g. marital counseling) where there are hoards of options.
No one said people with legitimate needs don’t end up finding bad care. A person struggling with their sexuality would do well to find supportive clergy who actually believe in science to help them accept themselves, rather than believing bogus b******t about “change is possible.”
you asked: “What percent of Exodus “clients” do you think fit the “vulnerable people who feel they need to change” category??”
Answer: The answer is 100% of the people. If this were not the case, we’d have just as many people entering ministries to try to go from straight to gay. The reason it is a one-way street is because of the fear and shame preached from the pulpit and groups like Exodus.
If not for religious bigotry, why else would a person go to a place like Exodus?
If I hear you right, it is destructive to torture persons with the question “Is change possible?” Or “Am I OK?” Rather something like–”What is going on with me and how will I proceed with my life, my relationships, my health?”
[I appreciate your responses.]
Yes, it’s destructive, because we already know the answer to that question. Science and reality have confirmed that not only does reparative therapy not work, it’s also harmful. We know the answer to that question. We understand, many of us having been through it ourselves, that many people are brought up in spiritually abusive environments which lead them to believe that they’re going to hell for who they are. We also understand that the people, like Alan Chambers, who promise “freedom from homosexuality,” are congenital liars. Alan himself admits that he’s still into dudes, but that he daily tortures himself into denying himself true fulfillment with a partner suited to who he is, in order to adhere to the confines of a poor interpretation of an old religious book.
That’s sad, but Alan shows no remorse for this, or for the lives he’s helped to destroy. We’re trying to help those he’s destroyed, and those who might fall under the “ex-gay” spell in the future.
Are you combatting “Change is Possible” as a bad answer or the wrong question?
If you assert it is a bad answer–don’t you affirm the question as important: ie “Is change possible?”
@wayne. Great questions I would need to answer. Headed out the door. Whether or not I respond–I will reflect.
No, it’s a stupid question and a stupid answer, and I do remember you, “grateful”-slash-lovetruthlove, and I do remember that you are a semantic troll. All the information you need about this organization or scientific reality on this subject is available for you if you click around the website, and I will not be wasting my time answering your questions anymore.
The way we manage conflict and solve problems is largely defined by the way we shape the questions.
I didn’t realize addressing that amounted to being a semantic troll.
I think last time I was the tone troll.
And another troll. Don’t recall which one.
I asked if a different question better framed what persons are dealing with. I didn’t ask for semantic reasons. I asked because I struggle with how to get my own church–and others I work with–to move off the “Is change possible” question.
Thanks for answers you gave.