Scenes From Hell: My Night At Lou Engle’s The Call Rally In Detroit

Wayne Besen November 12, 2011

Pastor Lou Engle preaching

No “ex-gays” to report on yet. But to take a swipe at the Muslims they did trot out an Arab “ex-terrorist” who dumped Mohammed for Jesus. The former terrorist then embraced a Jew for Jesus on-stage and apologized for his former hatred of Israel!! Middle East peace through JESUS! It reminded me of that line in the movie The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas when the governor answers a reporter’s question about war in the Middle East by saying, “Why can’t the Jews and the A-rabs settle this in a Christian manner?”

Live from Loonypalooza!

Black Republican speaker is no fan of Barack Obama.

SATURDAY AT LOONYPALOOZA

Notorious homophobe Alveda King — the nutty niece of MLK — speaks at The Call. She only mentioned homosexuality once under the euphemism “sexual immorality.” But today she focused on abortion.

Lou Engle attacks Planned Parenthood and rails against abortion. Sorry, I took the video the wrong way. But you can still hear the audio.

Faith Healer rebukes the spirit of cancer. I hope they have more luck than they did with the “demon of homosexuality” With the failure of the “ex-gay” myth we all know that didn’t work out too well:

Watch Lou Engle rock like he belongs in an asylum:

Detroit The Call

About the Author

Wayne Besen is the Founding Executive Director of Truth Wins Out and author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth” (Haworth, 2003). In 2010, Besen was awarded the “Visionary Award” at the Out Music Awards for organizing the American Prayer Hour, an event which shined a spotlight on the role American evangelicals played in the introduction of Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

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37 Comments

Peter Hargmier November 12, 2011 at 3:09 am -

They are all bat-s**t crazy! Wayne, I do not know how you managed to stomach it. Muchos Kudos.
Wayne Besen November 12, 2011 at 7:36 am -

And emotionally disturbed. They cry at everything!! A continuous parade of euphoria followed by a cascade of crockadile tears. Lots of speaking in tongues. And mania everywhere. These folks need to quit their fast and go eat. They are getting delerious.
Tone November 12, 2011 at 10:31 am -

Wow talk about taking one for the team! I’m going to have that second coffee before I attempt to view these clips.
Jim Stone November 12, 2011 at 4:47 pm -

When I see scenes like this I am just dumbfounded!!! It is hard to believe that there are soo many crazy people in this country!!!! People really are like sheep..they will follow ANYONE…and GIVE THEM MONEY!!!! Seriously guys..we need to open up our own church This working 9-5 40 hours a week is for the birds!!!! (Just ask Lou!)
Buffy November 12, 2011 at 5:58 pm -

They need a Soma cloud over that crowd.
Cathy November 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm -

I understand people not understanding some of the prayers, terminology, and spiritual and emotional practices of this event, but what I don’t understand is how people can call other people wrong, or sick, to look at a city that is so broken and see heart felt youth and young adults crying out to Jesus to bring healing, restoration in however they believe that would happen. The entire event was based on prayer, not fighting, no hate crimes, only different beliefs (which are allowed in this country), and time of worshipping Jesus who they believe moves on behalf of there praying and worshipping Him. It makes ME sick that people call people crazy WHO BELIEVE IN LIFE (not killing babies!), who BELIEVE IN MORALITY (whether it is different than these people on here) or whether they believe in a God who can bring freedom to those who are emotionally broken. It makes my heart hurt that people would mock such heart, such intention!!! Whether someone agrees or not, there is nothing wrong with heartfelt passion to see a city restored by prayer and reconciliation. To mock such individuals (I didn’t say disagree, I said mock) after witnessing such real genuine hope to see all people find peace in God through His Son…not fighting, just praying…and post it on the web and call it from hell. It makes me question if this is hell, then what is murder, crime, hate crimes, killing of babies…maybe that might not be hellish at all. I don’t know.
Nick K. November 13, 2011 at 12:15 am -

Cathy-I believe in God and seeking strength through prayer. However, what The Call does is trivialize faith and prayer. This gathering does not seek to heal through prayer or bridge the divide in our differences. Rather, it seeks to impose one particular brand of Christianity on everyone regardless of our beliefs. You say that the people attending The Call in Detroit are trying to heal a broken city through prayer. Although I agree with the power of prayer, just how exactly does praying for the conversion of Muslims to Christianity help heal the economic wounds of Detroit? How does condemning abortion and marriage equality rebuild Detroit’s infrastructure? Wouldn’t The Call do better to actually try to offer economic solutions (maybe through the lens of Christian social and economic justice) instead railing against those that disagree wih them? How about making their attendees volunteer at one of Detroit’s shelters or soup kitchens? Wouldn’t that be a more Christian thing to do?
Wayne Besen November 13, 2011 at 12:28 am -

Cathy:

You really just don’t get it. We are not mocking the practices of those at The Call, as bizarre and showy as the self-aggrandizing rituals might be. We are mocking you for your willful ignorance and your cognitive dissonance. The leaders of The Call are the problem — not the solution.

They are not moral. They are immoral. They are not patriots. They are borderline traitors who want to replace our beloved Constitution with the Old Testament.

They are not pro-life — but gleefully mock gay kids as they commit suicide or lobby to make sure schools can’t protect these students from the daily muggings they get from your good fundamentalist kids. Does their blood count for something in your professed love of “life”?

Back to the cognitive dissonance. You state that the event “was based on prayer, not fighting, no hate crimes.”

Oh really?

Cathy — you are so full of s**t your eyes are brown. Ellis Smith of Detroit’s Jubilee City Church is a “point-person” for The Call in Detroit.

Smith told the AP that fears of the event taking on an anti-Muslim tone are overblown. He said attendees won’t be “praying against Muslims,” but rather “against terrorism that has its roots in Islam.”

However, NBC Detroit reports: A pre-event sermon Smith delivered Oct. 9 at a suburban church, Smith called Islam a “false,” “lame” and “perverse”
religion.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Detroit-prayer-event-puts-Muslim-community-on-edge/-/1719418/4727748/-/avpchq/-/index.html

In other words Smith LIED. They all lie for the Lord. And you in your ignorance are shilling for this lie. I hope you are proud of yourself.

The Detroit area has an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 Muslims. You want to see fighting? You want to see hate crimes? Keep calling innocent Muslims in Detroit who have harmed no one false,” “lame” and “perverse.”

The future blood is on your hands and all those who support demagogues like Lou Engle, Cindy Jacobs, and Ellis Smith and regard these charlatans as “moral leaders.”

The hate, bigotry, and lies spewed by these self-righteous bigots causes hurt, not healing. It creates “religious” reprobates, not restoration.

You talk about the city as “broken” and gushed about the “heart felt youth” at the event. The city of Detroit is not nearly as broken as these poor youth will be if they are brainwashed to hate and trained to call such malice “love.”

Cathy — we will mock this madness until it stops. And we will defeat the evil forces of darkness who have a radical, dangerous, and exclusionary vision for this nation and the world (Google Engle and Uganda)
Ahab November 13, 2011 at 12:51 am -

Thank you for posting video excerpts!

“A continuous parade of euphoria followed by a cascade of crockadile tears. Lots of speaking in tongues. And mania everywhere.”

I am very wary of events that deliberately cultivate this kind of exaggerated emotion in attendees. In such states, people are suggestible.

Engle is a magnetic speaker, particularly with young audiences, which should alarm observers. The idea that this man and his ilk are promoting homophobic and anti-choice messages to young people saddens me.
Merlyn November 13, 2011 at 7:07 am -

Cathy, Lou Engle has called for the death of GLBT people. This is nothing more than hate towards GLBT and also Muslims to judge from comments made about them. I am not a Muslim but as a Pagan, I respect their right to their faith.

I am married to a wonderful man. Hundreds of thousands of us a legally (and some religiously as well) married to our loving spouses and we are faithful to one another and love one another with all our hearts and yet haters like Engle call us “immoral”. Don’t make people like Engle and his followers to be the “good guys” because they are not…not when they advocate jailing or forcing us to undergo therapy that doesn’t work, or even just killing us, In the book of any decent person that makes them killers.

Wayne, thank you for covering this. You are a way better man than I.
emma November 13, 2011 at 12:29 pm -

wait. so being called an “uncle Tom” is a good thing?
Richard Rush November 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm -

“However, NBC Detroit reports: A pre-event sermon Smith delivered Oct. 9 at a suburban church, Smith called Islam a “false,” “lame” and “perverse”
religion.”

If it didn’t cause so much human suffering, it would be amusing to watch people play, My superstition is the correct one, but yours is false, lame, and perverse.
Ezam November 13, 2011 at 2:06 pm -

@Richard Rush
They believe the same thing about Judaism (actually any other non-Evangelical-Christian religion), but they are much more subtle about it with Jews because they “love them” (translation: need them for the End Times to occur).
emma November 13, 2011 at 7:31 pm -

@Ezam
My Jewish friend has told me that evangelicals are trying to “cast them in a play,they have no interest being in”
Hunger Tallest Palin November 13, 2011 at 11:11 pm -

Thanks for going in there, but didn’t people think it was odd you were wearing a full HAZMAT suit?

What, you DIDN’T wear a full HAZMAT suit? Get thee to the decon chamber now!
Ann November 15, 2011 at 9:54 am -

I understand non-christians mocking and misunderstanding and twisting and falsifying what is being done at these rallys by those that seek to follow God and seek holiness. This is the non-christians nature without a new birth and is to be expected. What is sad is those that call theirselves christian but do not read their bible and do not seek the holiness that God demands but instead twist and misinterpret God’s holy word to match their own selfish thoughts and desires. Christians please begin to spend more time in your bible and in prayer than you do immersed in worldly things and pray that God will give you the heart and mind of Jesus. God will answer these type of prayers and then you will see the light as I have and be awakened to the deception that the world and some in the church has fed us. You will then see the evil for what it is and will understand the need to fast and cry out to God in repentance and deliverance of the things that separate us from God and His blessings. You will realize that there is sooo much more to God and his promises than man can comprehend in their own mind and they need to surrender and rely on God and His ways.

Romans 1:18-32 – 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

(NIV)
Peter November 15, 2011 at 10:06 am -

Wayne, this is the environment around which I was raised. Even as a child I knew I was in a land of illusion and willful ignorance, of condoned mental illness and emotional dysfunction.

It brought me considerable pleasure to come out at Christmas Eve dinner, with my Evangelical grandmother present…over a conversation about Nazis.

;)

Thanks for all you do.
Peter November 15, 2011 at 10:14 am -

Ann, I grew up around “you.” Your words are intellectually shallow, and your condemnations of non-Christians baseless, mere ad hominem. In other words, blah, blah, blah.

These events are nothing but shams and magnets for fools who lack the intelligence to find deep, true meaning in their lives without your “Hamburger Helper.”

They are vehicles with which to fuel animosity towards “the other,” and it’s all for self-gain and in self-service, so don’t you dare try to lecture about selfishness.

The ringleaders of such events are borderline sociopaths who routinely fail to examine their own behavior or to consider that they actually DO cause very real, very tangible harm to others; they are profiteering charlatans.
Gene November 15, 2011 at 10:26 am -

Peter answered you better than I could Ann…but there is one thing he did not mention. More and more of the oldest, most established and best eductaed and intellectually honest Churches, full of people who love God, but who have not checked their brains at the door, now WELCOME and ORDAIN us. These include the Episcopal Church, The Presbyterian Church, The United Church of Christ, The Lutherans, and that does not even include other religious groups like the Reformed Jews, and the Conservative Jews (as opposed to Orthodox) and many other congregations in conservative denominations that buck their leadership to do the right thing.

You quote a LOT of scripture, but I will quote just one little bit, and it answers all your objections. It is from Micah, and it is the answer to the question “What does God require of you?”

And the answer is “To do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God”.

If you are still a fundamentalist / evangelical, you need to raise you standards and join a better church Ann.

Until then, you have NOTHING to offer us.
Understood?
Peter November 15, 2011 at 10:29 am -

Hear, hear, Gene.
Peter November 15, 2011 at 10:33 am -

Ann, I do want to respond to this lovely piece of hate speech, and that is indeed what this is. Hate.

“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

How DARE you people reduce my LOVING, gentle, intimate relationship with my partner Bill to nothing but “lust?”

Like straight couples, Bill and I support each other through the daily madness of this earthly existence. We comfort each other, we protect each other, we encourage each other while instilling hope, we fight and laugh, we pay bills and stress over mundane demands, etc.

But to you and yours our beautiful relationship is nothing but contemptible LUST.

HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE CLAIM YOU ARE NOT BEING HATEFUL?

Enough. ENOUGH.
Evan Hurst November 15, 2011 at 10:38 am -

Ann, your “new birth” is make-believe, like Santa.
Ben In Oakland November 15, 2011 at 10:41 am -

Gene– great to have you back. We’ve heard nothing for months.

Ann, as I always do when someone starts quoting romans, I am going to ask you a question, to which I have yet to receeve an answer:

What is hte implication of thwe words “For this cause, God gave them over…
Peter November 15, 2011 at 10:43 am -

Sweet:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/national-organization-marriage-court-lgbt_n_1089982.html
Gene November 15, 2011 at 11:18 am -

Hello all.

Nice to be back Ben. I am only back for a moment…I have to get back the hospital soon, but…I miss this site, and just for my own sanity, I am visiting.

My husband is still in acute care, raging with fevers. The love of my life. I spend his birthday, and our 21st anniversary, in an ICU. The MRSA infection rages, but, I still have hope. His kidneys, by a miracle, began working again, the pancreatitis healed, and he has not had an internal bleed in almost a month. He is still on a trach, and, cannot speak to me, but when the pain meds are lowered, and sees me, and he smiles…and….I am alive again.
My dear nephew and niece, and his sisters, have been good to me. His sisters, I slowly am teaching English, and the kids are doing well in school. Our pastor and congregation have been a tower of support to us (we are Presbyterian) but, so have so many other people. One of the hospital techs, a devout Muslim, told me she had come to change her mind about us and our families after seeing the joy, and the pain, and the loyalty of gay families over and over in the hospital. My boss, who is a saint, and the rest of the 60 year old white guys from the south I work with, all visit, and all have covered my work load. I have beent work 7 days since late July, but, my career (and health insurance) are intact. When I answer the messages that pile up, I am honest to clients in Georgia, New York, Kentucky, Colorado, and tell them exactly why I am not there, and for who.

Every response I have gotten has been positive.
I have lost no clients.
One old man said “Well…I didn’t hold with that, but, if he is in the hospital, you do the honorable thing and stick by him. Sounds like he’s earned it. I’ll be here (meaning his account) when ya’ get back…pause…my (he mentioned a family member) is like you..and he’s all right. God bless you”

Evan talks about a tipping point.

I am living it. Sadly, tragically, I am living it, but, I take a note in comfort in this symphony of pain, in seeing that most people are rallying around me. And most with total acceptance, not a half begrudging sad sort of thing. Even the old man I mentioned above has seen Ellen, knows his gay relatives, and, due to THEIR brave coming out, I am not so…odd. I am just a man who all but lives in a hospital with his husband, trying to keep his family together and sane.

There is some real, very real, comfort in that.

I am in the deep south. Every single member of the hospital staff treats me as what I am…a terrified husband. The other families in the waiting rooms and hallways outside of the ICU, when I tell them who my loved one inside the ICU is, ALWAYS just offer me prayer and support. “Oh honey, ‘course I know good gay folk…you think my church choir aint got a director? God bless you both, and stick by him and pray darlin’”. Those words stick in my mind.

I have heard about 50 variations on that.

When I have time, I will answer your question Ben. It is a good one! and there is not a good brief answer.

For those of you who pray, please pray for me and my man. For those who don’t, well…wish us the best.

And, for all who read this, take this message from my fear and pain in this wlkaing nightmare.

We are not AT the tipping point. We have passed the tipping point. I can see it in the way I am being treated at this time, but people in the deep south, and by medical staff that are from all parts of the world, even places like Jamaica and India, who tell me how they have changed their thoughts abouts…

They had to….seeing reality, and looking into their own hearts, made them.

Ann….in time, I hope you can grow, and mature, and love, the way these people, many of them strangers, have loved me in my time of fear and pain.

I don’t know if you will respond to this…but, if you choose to, make it the real deal. Have an epiphany, and realize how much the people you support, and their flawed view of faith, hurts people like us, then write and wish me and my HUSBAND well. Otherwise, please, have the class to not add to my pain, and write nothing at all.

Thank you
Priya Lynn November 15, 2011 at 11:23 am -

Hoping for the best for you husband and you Gene.
Peter November 15, 2011 at 11:47 am -

Gene, only good thoughts and profound hope for serenity and health. Be well, and take comfort in knowing you guys have anonymous allies in cyberspace rooting you on. :)
Ben In Oakland November 15, 2011 at 12:04 pm -

Gene– I’m glad you came back. I’m sorry to hear about your husband. I know what it is like. Paul’s had two surgeries, and he did find with them. But he’s got at least two more “anomalies” we have to keep an eye on.

Regarding the “for this cause”, I know what the implications are. I’m waiting a fundelibangelist to figure it out.
Toni November 15, 2011 at 12:09 pm -

Rarely do I post on articles/blogs such as this, but I feel compelled to do so. I know that what I say will not only fail to change the opinions of 99% of those who read my comments, but it’s that 1% who may pause and think that I write this to.

Everything I’m going to say here is out of love first for my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Secondly, it’s out of love for others.

It’s been mentioned on this thread that Christians mock GLBT youth committing suicide or being beaten up for their lifestyle choices. If you’ve experienced that, I’m sorry. Jesus doesn’t teach that. We are to love others, however, we are not required to “tolerate” their sin. Jesus expects us to give others the message of the need for His forgiveness, as well as the means to that forgiveness. It is, however, up to each individual as to whether or not they accept it.

Regardless of how much you “love” a person of the same sex, it is, according to God’s Divine Law, an abomination to participate in a relationship with a person of the same sex just as you would with a spouse of the opposite sex. The simple fact is, in God’s Ten Commandments, He tells us not to commit adultery. And since adultery is sex outside of marriage, and marriage is defined in Genesis as being one man and one woman, we can conclude that adultery in this commandment also refers to homosexuality. The churches that have embraced the lifestyle are, quite honestly, wrong. They are not following God’s commands. Many of you will say, “But Jesus taught about love and forgiveness.” Yes, that’s exactly right. But, those things must come in the proper context. Someone cannot be forgiven for something they do not believe is wrong. The Law was given to us not only to follow, but also so that we could see our inability TO follow it perfectly. It’s because of this that we know we need the forgiveness of Christ in order to live a blameless life before Him.

Leviticus 18:22 is quite clear, and there is no denying what it says: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” There is no misinterpreting that. The next verse goes on to condemn beastiality. As a former lesbian, I was able to locate Lev. 18:22 with my eyes closed. God’s Word achieved its goal, as it always does. It convicted me of what I was doing – I knew I was wrong. Oh sure, I made all the same arguments we have now: its genetic, its who I am, accept me anyway, we have rights too, ad nauseum. But, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I knew I was living in perpetual sin. Yes, I KNEW Jesus died to save me, but what I did not know was that without repentance of sin, forgiveness cannot come. Jesus offers His forgiveness free of charge – its only an act of faith. He requires but one simple, yet not easy, thing of us: repentance. Turning away from the sin that entangles us.

1 Corinthians 7:2 says “Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have HIS OWN WIFE, and let every woman have HER OWN HUSBAND.” (Emphasis mine)

One more ~ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 states: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

It was also mentioned in a previous comment that the Christian leaders should offer economic solutions based on Jesus’ teaching, rather than trying to convert others to Christian beliefs. While I can see where you are coming from, this won’t work. To an unsaved person, things of God are folly. So, even if we offered such solutions, without a saving knowledge of Christ, they wouldn’t work. And, furthermore, they would never even be accepted because they would, again, follow Christ’s commands, and therefore be foolish to unbelievers.

I doubt I’ll come back to this site – I found it by accident looking for something else. However, I do pray for each person reading this, and hope that God will use it to speak to the conscience of at least one unsaved individual. I’m grateful He’s given me the opportunity to be used by Him, and I pray that each of you are convicted by His spirit before its too late.

Have a blessed and wonderful day ~

In Christ
Peter November 15, 2011 at 12:21 pm -

Tori, where you get off thinking your personal religious views entitles you to call our relationships “abominations” and call it love is beyond me.

Your love does not give you a permission slip to degrade and insult us. Oh, wait. You think it DOES.

“Everything I’m going to say here is out of love first for my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Secondly, it’s out of love for others.”

Meaningless intellectual dishonesty.

You do it to score brownie points with your god, and that is ALL.

There is no authentic love in your words, only sugar-coated judgment and self-righteous indignation.

“I doubt I’ll come back to this site”

Yes, you’ve done your Christian duty, and are now leaving. It’s called a hit and run.

“I do pray for each person reading this, and hope that God will use it to speak to the conscience of at least one unsaved individual.”

Tori, if you had a conscience, you’d educate yourself and stop these self-righteous psychological assaults you commit on others.

“I’m grateful He’s given me the opportunity to be used by Him, and I pray that each of you are convicted by His spirit before its too late.”

And what’s also beyond me, is people like you thinking we’d want to be saved only to spend an eternity with YOU.

I’ll pass thanks.

Good luck. Good-bye. Good riddance.
Evan Hurst November 15, 2011 at 12:32 pm -

Toni:

Your beliefs bully gay children and your thoughts fail in the marketplace of ideas. There is no 1% whose minds will be changed.
Ben In Oakland November 15, 2011 at 12:40 pm -

Gene, your sotry prompted me to write a bit more.

I have long held that the enemy is not the religious nuts and the wanna-be-straights, it’s the closet. We have to live our lives outside of it, live them well, authentically, and honestly. We need to be thechnge we would see in the world.

And even if the world doesn’t change– but it is and it will– we still can look back and say we lived our lives well, authentically, and honestly.

And therein lies the problem with the whole ex-gay paradigm. Well, authentically, honestly are rarely going to be there. Shame, sin, and AC’s rather weird idea of holiness is what you’ll have to look back on.
Ben In Oakland November 15, 2011 at 1:14 pm -

Toni, honey…

Isn’t your wholly imaginary superiority– moral, spiritual, and religious– really a kick?

Does it get you high to think that you– little ol’ Toni– are speaking for God almighty?

Does it make you all warm inside to know that you have Buddy Jesus (TM) walking next to you, that you’re his very bestest buddy ever?

Isn’t it great that you’re spreading the ol’ word, but these poor unrepentant homosexual sinners are not going to listen to you and they’re gonna burn in hell, but you won’t.

How much effort does it cost you to convince yourself that you are not judging and condemning, in clear violation of what Jesus had to say, which all boiled down to this “Be nice to each other. Be the best person you can. and, oh yes. Mind your own business.”

And all of that to support your wholly self-imagined superiority?

Honey, it doesn’t make you better than me. It just makes you pathetic.
Ben In Oakland November 15, 2011 at 1:16 pm -

Oops, hit eneter to soon. It should read:

“Be nice to each other. Be the best person you can. and, oh yes. Mind your own business.”

But you’re not being the best person you can, because here you are telling us what’s wrong with us instead of fixing yourself. Youre trying to mind someone else’s business, and you are certianly not being nice.

And all of that to support your wholly self-imagined superiority?

Honey, it doesn’t make you better than me. It just makes you pathetic.
Gene November 15, 2011 at 3:45 pm -

Toni..I pray I never meet you.I have known child molesters, murderers, rapists, wife beaters, thieves who stole from the poor and elderly, and those who abuse their elderly parents.

I class you, with pity, as lower than them.

you have my deepest, deepest and saddest pity.

I pray I never meet you. I pray you do not have children, as you would be unfit to raise them. I pray you grow up, and learn silence, at least, and hopefully, grace and tolerance, at best.

Until then….shut up.
you have NOTHING to offer us. Or anyone else.

Understood?
Gene November 15, 2011 at 3:51 pm -

One more thing Toni, one last thing.
If you wonder why so many people are rejecting the Church, and wonder why…
Look in the mirror.

YOU are the answer to the question.
Yes Toni….coward that you are, you probably WONT come back to this site…but, if you do, know this fact.
YOU drive more people from the church than you imagine.
Think in that…if you are a true believer, it should frighten you very, very much.

Thank you for your kind words and prayers for my husband by the way. (sarcasm)
Truly, your actions mark you as a true woman of faith (SARCASM)
Richard Rush November 15, 2011 at 5:46 pm -

Gene,

I too had been wondering about your husband since you had not commented here for a long time. Thanks for the update. I wish so much for his recovery.

Toni’s comment being juxtaposed here with your story simply emphasizes how despicable she is.