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‘Pray Away the Gay’ On ABC’s What Would You Do? with John Quinones
26About the Author
Wayne Besen is the Founding Executive Director of Truth Wins Out and author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth” (Haworth, 2003). In 2010, Besen was awarded the “Visionary Award” at the Out Music Awards for organizing the American Prayer Hour, an event which shined a spotlight on the role American evangelicals played in the introduction of Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill.
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Wow ! Great !!
Why do people try to “fix” something that isn’t broken?
THEY are deceived and I would say the “broken” who need to be fixed!
Let love in and clear your mind and heart so you can SEE clearly !
We saw that the other night. We were pleased with how many people stepped in and supported the young gay (actor) man, and knew “pray away the gay” was harmful BS.
Wayne, this is just supremely retarded, even by your own lofty standard.
First, exactly how successful do you think one would be asking a functioning twenty-something year old alcohlic to “pray away the alcohol”?
If the person doesn’t think they have a problem with alcohol/gender identification/sexual preferance, then it’s highly unlikely they will want help. The young man (or actor) in the clip obviously isn’t one of the many men who is seeking to leave the homosexual lifestyle to heal emotional pain and thus the entire exercise is pointless.
Secondly, the caricature that a group like Exodus International “Prays Away the Gay” is simply detached from reality. I’m not an expert on the subject, but from what I have read, such reparative therapy is treated as a gender identity matter and in the case of men seeking to leave behind such destructive personal behavior, masculinity is reinforced in a variety of ways (whereas with lesbians, femininity is emphasized). Furthermore, there is exactly zero evidence that such therapy is at all more harmful than the lifestyle choice is such people wish to leave behind.
To think that the complete nonsense engaged in by Quinones and the writers over at ABC is somehow reflective of reality is nothing short of misguided, Orwellian verve.
Sorry, the above link didn’t go through. Here it is Link
JD- there are two sides to the ex-gay movement. The explicitly religious groups under the Exodus umbrella, and the ones who put on a veneer of secular science like NARTH. The explicitly religious groups do indeed teach people to pray away the gay. At times they’ve even tried to exorcism away the gay. The NARTHites and their acolytes bring in their psuedo-freudian emotional pain, not bonding with daddy whatever, but here’s a little secret; they’re both unsuccessful. Do some gay men have emotional pain? Were some gay men hurt in their lives by their fathers? Sure, just like some straight men. And it’s great for them to get therapy and overcome their issues. But after they do they’ll still be into guys. And all the butching up in the world won’t change that.
JD Curtis:
I take it that you are one of the .1% of so-called “ex-gays” that Exodus’ Alan Chambers says can change. You must feel special.
For you to claim there is no proof is harmful shows you have no character and will simply say just about anything.
And, yes, these groups pray away the gay and use junk science to defraud clients.
The explicitly religious groups do indeed teach people to pray away the gay
You wouldn’t mind fleshing this out a little bit, would you Boo? Please note that I’m not saying that the Bible/religion does not play a role in their methods, but I think you would agree that the idea that homosexuality is ‘prayed away’ in a manner that a Pentacostal faith-healer attempts to heal the lame is preposterous.
here’s a little secret; they’re both unsuccessful..
the .1% of so-called “ex-gays”
It’s my understanding that the success rate that Exodus claims is about 45%. Not spectacular, but still..
No, I cannot say that I’ve ever struggled with same-sex attractions Wayne, but that does not make me any better or worse than anyone else. I look at it like, but by the grace of God, there go I..
For you to claim there is no proof is harmful shows you have no character and will simply say just about anything
Question…
Was homosexuality depathologized by the APA in 1973 through any sort of groundbreaking ‘research’ or was it through pressure, threats and intimidation brought about via radical gay activism? If it’s the former, exactly what study changed everyone’s mind in the psychological community?
I’d really like an answer here.
JD:
Get with the times. Chambers latest stat is .1%.
http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2012/02/21908/
The activists put pressure on the APA to review the research. Once that occurred it was easy to see that homosexuality was not an illness.
You have everything a*s backwards.
And, yes, they do pray away the gay. You really don’t know a thing about this topic, do you?
I love how these “ex gays” like “JD” (or whatever his or her name is) try too wrap themselves in this psychological mumbo jumbo as if they are experts on human sexuality when obviously they are completely ignorant on this subject… meanwhile, they live a sham of a life, full of lies and deceptions.. JD your pathetic… live your life as a happy “hetero” and leave us alone!
Just checked JD’S Link he/she posted. It must be his webpage.. nothing but right wing, Obama hating, liberal hating, homosexual hating drivel. Why are all these “ex gays” a bunch of fascist evangelical anti gay rights bigots?
“seeking to leave the homosexual lifestyle”
What is this “lifestyle” someone seeks to leave? Falling in love w/ someone you’re attracted to? Forming a committed partnership w/ someone you’re in love with, who loves you—is that it?
Seriously, unpack this for us: this so-called “lifestyle” you haters are always blathering on about…
“The majority of people that I have met — and I would say the majority meaning 99.9 percent of them — have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction.” Alan Chambers – Gay Christian Network panel
“Let me ask you something JCF, is it possible that someone could be opposed to, say, gay marriage, and NOT be a bigot? Is any dissent allowed on this topic at all?”
Being opposed to equal rights for gay people makes you a bigot by definition JD. That’s what a bigot is.
And it’s not that hard to find videos on the web of faith healers attempting to cast out “gay demons” even if you wish they weren’t there.
I will however grant you that not all ex gay ministries use that approach. A substantial number also rely on cuddling and naked touching.
Interest in the scientific study of homosexuality (clinical term) arose in the 1950′s as a result of two main factors.
First it was found that while gays served in the armed forces during WWII, none of the mental breakdowns or other psychological problems expected which were the given reason for gays being considered unfit for service actually materialized. Gays served as ably as their straight peers.
Second was the publication in 1948 of Kinsey’s ground breaking book “Sexual Behavior in the Human Male”
Early studies attempted to prove the ideas of Freud, Adler, Jung and others with regard to the causes of homosexuality. Freud’s ideas were derived from observations of the few gays who he was treating for psychiatric problems, hardly a random sample. Research based instead on randomly selected gay and straight groups found no unaccountable differences between the two groups to match these prior armchair speculations.
The reliance of NARTH on Freud’s disproved ideas is pathetic. No NARTH therapist is a member of the American Psychological Association (apa dot org) because they do not follow the APA’s ethical standards when it comes to how they treat gays.
JD,
While Alan Chambers acknowledged that for those people seeking change in sexual orientation, the failure rate is 99.9%, I’d bet anything that for those people seeking change in religious orientation, the success rate is at least 99.9%.
It’s surely many magnitudes easier to walk away from the sanctimonious Christian lifestyle than it is to walk away from “the homosexual lifestyle.”
Being gay is fundamental to who you are.
Being a sanctimonious Christian is fundamental to how you were indoctrinated. No one is born a sanctimonious Christian. Change is possible.
JD, you are correct when you say you are not an expert on the subject.
Early studies involved giving a battery of the usual psychological tests to randomly selected members of a gay experimental group and a straight control group. These were presented to diagnosticians who did not know what group each set of tests were from.
While there were the usual pathologies in both groups, there was no discernible pattern allowing the diagnosticians to tell which of the two groups these tests came from.
If test results are indistinguishable, how can one group be normal and the other abnormal? If the test results before and after “treatment” are no different, how would you know the patient was “cured”?
These are a few of the studies which led the American Psychiatric Association (psych dot org)to remove homosexuality from its list of mental disorders.
Another sign (one of many) that JD is still living in the middle of the 20th century is the fact that he/she used the word ‘retarded’ in the pejorative way that some people still do when referring to something or someone who is mentally challenged. JD is an insensitive bigot in so many ways.
JD, if you knew even a little history, you would also know you’re full of it.
Every once in a while, you read a right winger talking about the threats and intimidation, the massive political power and pressure brought to bear on the APA in 1973.
Honey, this was 197–goddamned-THREE!!!!! Unlike you, I was IN Honolulu in 1973.! Stonewall was four years before.,mattachine 20 years before, and sodomy was still illegal in most of the states. The concept that gay people actually had rights, and that your vicious prejudice needed to end, was still in diapers. If we had so much power then, why did it take 30 years to end sodomy laws?
However, mr. Useful tool, you have indeed shown something. The concept of the big lie, used so successfully by the real fascists about the Jews– we control the media and the banks– is alive and well.
I think I have a good understanding of how people tick, but I’ve never understood how an honest, comassionate, educated man can resort to obvious lies to prove a point that in itself is yet a bigger lie.
Jesus was indeed talking to the likes of you when he said that before you judge others, you really need to look at yourself.
Actually, bill, Freud was quite ok on the subject of homosexuality,vgiven the times.. He believed it was a failure to adjust and be properly socialized, but he didn’t see it so much as a pathology, as his letter to an American mother showed.
While JD didn’t actually reveal a religious motivation/justification, in the civilized parts of today’s world virtually 100% of organized anti-gay crusades are religiously motivated and/or justified. So my natural instinct was to assume that was the case with JD.
J.D., kindly end your use of the word “retarded” as a pejorative term. Use of that word as a synonym for “stupid” is as derogatory and ridiculous as similar use of the word “gay” and has no place in this forum.
JD said “Furthermore, there is exactly zero evidence that such therapy is at all more harmful than the lifestyle choice is such people wish to leave behind.”.
False. The American Psychiatric Association unequivocally states gays who positively accept their orientation are happier and better adjusted than those who do not. The harm gays experience is caused by discrimination from bigots like you.
JD said “It’s my understanding that the success rate that Exodus claims is about 45%. Not spectacular, but still..”.
Your “understanding” is wrong. No one has ever proved a change in orientation, although many of those who’ve claimed such a change have later admitted or been proven liars. Not surprisingly your side still counts them as “successes”.
JD said “Let me ask you something JCF, is it possible that someone could be opposed to, say, gay marriage, and NOT be a bigot?”.
No.
JD said “Is any dissent allowed on this topic at all?”.
Just as no dissent is allowed on the truth that blacks are not inferior to whites no dissent is allowed on the truth that gays are not inferior to heteroesexuals.
If you look at JD’s web history – JD Curtis has, on many sites, for years, repeatedly displayed this behavior.
He’ll ask a question based on a false assumption or a start insulting people and then act like he is a victim of what he calls “liberal fascism” and “the thought police” or even “the pink hand” if he is corrected or if people refuse to deal with him.
He then retreats to his web-page where he writes a insult-laden post about how his innocent questions are being censored by fascists and tries to goad people into responding on his webpage.
This is repeated behavior that you can find by searching for his name.
He is pretending he never received a response to his questions but we can read this thread. He has derailed a thread about an interesting video. He’s probably very happy.
Yes, it seems JD is an extremely disturbed individual who needs help. He is very dishonest and two-faced. No need to have such undesirables with an underhanded agenda on this site. He is banned.