Grace Church Announcements for January 29th 2012 from Randy Thomas on Vimeo.
Clearly, Exodus International has backfired for its President Alan Chambers — because he keeps getting gayer each time I see him.
‘It Gets Gayer’ Video — By Exodus Leader Alan Chambers
95About the Author
Wayne Besen is the Founding Executive Director of Truth Wins Out and author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth” (Haworth, 2003). In 2010, Besen was awarded the “Visionary Award” at the Out Music Awards for organizing the American Prayer Hour, an event which shined a spotlight on the role American evangelicals played in the introduction of Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill.
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Gets “gayer?” As supportive as I am, Wayne, this seems a little internally homophobic. Do we judge gay by a giddy personality, lack of sterotypical male behavior, etc… Slow news day?
Actually Ricky, you have entirely missed the point by about 10,000 miles.
Half of the Exodus program is prayer. The other half are programs specifically designed to make men more masculine and women more feminine. This includes touch football games for men and lipstick seminars for women.
Thus, the video vividly captures and exquisitely highlights the absolute failure of Exodus programs. If Chambers is the best a program that focuses on increasing stereotypical masculinity can offer — what is the fate of those poor souls paying him big money to teach them how to act more butch?
Actually, it’s a busy news day — and this video is more newsworthy than anything on our site, for the exception of Prop. 8.
Far from “internally homophobic” it illustrates the utter waste of time of attending an “ex-gay” ministry.
Ricky — I can almost guarantee that if this video is widely circulated it will save more lives than 100 “serious” seminars that we do on this topic. Young people thinking of entering Exodus will see this video and conclude: “This program just doesn’t seem effective or credible.”
I don’t remember this scene from The Birdcage.
If Alan is fooling anyone, it is only himself. He probably especially likes the time to “hug” in church.
Highlights of the Superbowl game for Alan are the commercials and dressing up in team outfits? Camp much?
It’s amazing what people will do for money…and/or the approval of those who loathe them.
he also looks more like a senior citizen every time. That man is what, 40 years old? He looks like he’s at least 60. That’s what living a lie does to you… wears on the body and the soul.
Of course, he’s a living walking lie, and probably watches gay porn on his cell phone. No, actually that would make him look younger, which has seemingly permanently escaped him.
But there is something so offf about many of these right wing Christians comm style. They are so fake, so plastic and so obvious.
His jeans are also too tight, and too short and he’s more than gay enough to know that’s a fashion no-no.
is Alan supposely “ex-gay”?
Okay, I had zero interest in watching this video or seeing Chambers do anything until I read these comments. Oh my (fictional) god. “Gayer” is an understatement. He’s so beyond simply gay, I don’t know if there’s a word for it. He makes Miss Marcus Bachmann look like a lumberjack.
I know you know this, Wayne, but you totally know your stuff. There is absolutely no greater anti-”ex-gay” evidence than the first ten seconds of this video. With all his prancing, dancing and swishing, this queen literally can’t even walk straight, let alone be it.
Can you spell “closet case”?
‘semi-reality church’ and ‘static camp’ pretty much says it all.
BTW, what the hell is Static Camp?
Static amp is where you don’t move your wrists.
(Peter closes his eyes, bows his head slightly and pinches the bridge of his nose)
Goodness me….
Well, maybe he prayed away the gay, but the gayness is another story. Different prayers maybe? Yes, he’s kind of nelly. No judgement intended; just an observation based on a lifetime of being gay and being judged for it. However, he is cute and I’d gladly welcome him back into the fold if he ever had the courage to face the fact that he is still one of us.
When I saw the beginning of this video, I thought at first that it couldn’t be meant seriously: I thought that it must be a burlesque and that the part of Alan Chambers was being played by a look-alike.
Alan himself admitted that his ‘ex-gay’ mentality is simply self-denial. But oh, the ‘spiritual benefits’ make it worthwhile, don’t ya know? I don’t care that he’s chosen to live in that delusion, but he’s also chosen to contribute to hurting others, and that’s unacceptable.
Great goddess —
wow –
Yeah, I have to agree, it is pretty clear that Mr. Chambers is what Mr. Chambers always was — which is not just gay, but stereotypically so.
Thank you Wayne.
Regards,
Reyn
I snorted so hard, I hurt myself!
First of all, my wife and kids love the person on this video. You can make this into what ever you want to make it into, but it makes church a whole lot more fun.
Secondly, Wayne and others, it’s ironic to me that you all decry this type of bullying and stereotyping in public schools and other places yet you are saying the very same cruel things to people like me as were said when I was being terrorized in school. It’s hypocritical. I hope no child sees how you have spoken about people who might not be as macho as you seem to think you are.
And, for the record, Exodus doesn’t help people become masculine or feminine. Those types of things haven’t been around in decades. Your information is outdated an you know it.
Thanks for posting this video, though. Promoting a different kind of church like ours where anyone and everyone is welcome is helpful.
You’re the one who is being hypocritical, Alan. You are the one who ‘terrorizes’ gays by cruelly claiming that gays are damned to hell, which is just another kind of bullying. You’ve become the bully you hated so much at school.
Alan – My respect and admiration for you grows daily. Know that there are many who you may not know,but who pray for you and the ministry of Exodus often.
Blessings!
Leigh
What “touch football games for men and lipstick seminars for women”? I’ve been around Exodus for over a decade and have never heard of either of these. Sounds like someone needs to check their facts.
Oh Alan Chambers, if this is really you, THANK YOU. Your a great source of humor…and your own words and actions have been a great source of influence in helping friends realize they DON’T need to go to some organization like yours.
There is a reason organizations like yours are not respectable, but laughed at by most of society, and more and more every day.
Videos like this are a big part of that reason.
Keep up the ‘good work’. :)
Alan — you are a liar and someone who simply can’t be believed. Nothing you say is true. The core of Exodus’ program is increasing masculinity in men and femininity in women — when you are not praying away the gay. As a man, you are an abject failure based on your organization’s own standards you have set on masculinity. You set the stereotypical standard — you failed to live by standard you set.
Alan, have you any idea what actually goes on in your member ministries? Or, maybe you are simply in denial that Exodus is a purveyor of stereotypes disguised as science.
If I find 10 examples on the website of your member ministries will you promise to resign by Friday? Will you take the challenge?
Speaking of lying. You deceived the crowd at the Gay Christian Network conference in Orlando. You told the crowd: “We’re not here to change you. That is our message….We can’t do that… ‘Change is Possible’ we don’t use that phrase anymore…I’m sorry that that is something that we used.”
Yet, our research proves that what you said is not true. You looked at the crowd and lied through your teeth. Your ministries still promote the “change is Possible” lie and Exodus’ Joe Dallas is teaming up with PFOX who has the slogan on its front page. Here is the damning evidence.
http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/02/22297/
http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/02/22472/
http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2012/02/21908/
Alan, please explain why you said that “Change is Possible” is not a slogan that Exodus uses — when, in fact, it remains a key component of your organization’s literature and teachings.
Please — refute the evidence — we are all waiting. At the moment, you simply have no credibility.
Wow – “it gets better” – as long as you live up to what the gay social police (for lack of a better term – I’m open to suggestions) have raised as the standard. Looks like there is a new bully in town. I’m disappointed in you, Mr. Besen.
And I’ll second what Tony wrote about the lack of lipstick seminars for women at Exodus – I learned my makeup skills from Mary Kay. Although if I’d never shown an interest, it would not have made a difference in my journey of change.
Looks like Alan came here with some little friends to defend him: Leigh, Tony, & Dee. I’m not impressed.
Ah, Mr. Besen – what are you ON today, man? Of course Alan has no credibility on your web page. But if you’d like some evidence that change is possible, I offer my own life. Not that I’m perfect by any stretch of the imagination – I hope that we both know that only Jesus truly is. My confidence here is in what He has done for me and continues to work out in my life every day.
Actually – that’s a good question – what evidence would it take for you to see that change in an individual’s sexual orientation has occurred?
I’m afraid that there has been a terrible lack of communication over this issue for many years – people simply speaking past one another. I thought you were the kind of guy who was aiming higher…
Hey there Devin – I’m actually average height.
This is the problem, Alan. It is in your member ministries where the real damage is done. Yet when you are confronted with an absurd practice or claim by one of them, you respond with either disbelief or protest that Exodus is a big ship — anything to avoid responsibility. You even did this at the recent GCN conference.
This stuff isn’t decades old, much of it happens still. But those of us who have presented you with evidence time and time again are just a bit weary of getting the same response from you. Until you take full responsibility for what your organization and it’s ministries have done or are doing, you have no credibility.
I’m glad church is a blast for you, but it means nothing until you decide to address the harm you’ve caused.
Dee Martin the little doesn’t refer to your height. It’s more about how much we can trust you–i.e. “very little”.
29 Dee Martin.
Now, onto more serious matters;
I’ve wanted to ask someone who claims to have done a 180 from totally homosexual to totally straight a few questions for a while, but for some reason all my e-mails to various ex-gay groups have remained unanswered.
Now, here you are, you offer your own life as evidence that change is possible.
So, here we go;
First, why did you feel you needed to change?
You described it as a journey of change, so are you saying change happens over a period of time? If so, do you think it could happen instantly?
Do you still have romantic/sexual feelings for members of your own gender?
Do you think that someone who isn’t a theist could change? Or, could you have gone through this change without any backup or therapy or anything?
A left-hander can be made successfully to write right-handed. Is this change a similar thing, only bigger and more serious? i.e, you are still homosexual or do you just use your other hand, so to speak?
I’m dead excited waiting for your answers.
Take care of yourself.
Dee – you are also a liar. You clearly have no idea what Exodus teaches about sexuality or gender stereotypes. Otherwise you would not be making a complete fool of yourself.
There is no “gay social police” — but there is a very robust body of work used by Exodus, PFOX and NARTH where gender stereotypes are enforced.
For example, the Love Won Out in Atlanta this weekend sold Janet Boynes book, “Called Out.” Here is a passage from that book.
Boynes: In the years since those early first steps of faith, I have gradually gained confidence as a woman. I know that I have made a fool of myself trying to learn how to walk in heels and there are definitely days when I feel more comfortable in a sweatshirt and blue jeans, but I have been learning little by little. I have grown my hair out and regularly get my nails done. (p. 67)
Um, sounds like Exodus minister Janet Boynes is doing exactly what you just said Exodus does not do. Please explain why Exodus is selling this book promoting gender stereotypes? Maybe it’s the “fundamentalist social police?”
Dee Martin, the “little” could also have to do with how much truth there is in what you say.
But not yet to an average (or better) understanding of human sexuality.
Get a better church, not some inferior fundy outfit (there are excellent options, from the Presbyterians to the Lutherans to the Episcopalians to the United Church of Christ, et al) and start talking with all the ex-ex gay survivors who will help you face the the reality that you are who you are, and, as a lesbian, short or tall :) , it is ok.
We have heard WAY,WAY,WAY to many people tell us how ‘successful’ they were as ex-gays and later, recant. We have seen the scientific evidence, and we have heard the psychologists and clergy in the educated denominations who tell us that attempts at “change” don’t work…and more importantly, are not even necessary for the religious.
So, the answer to your question about what evidence would it take? There is none. And the debate among educated non fanatics is done…your question is like being asked by a flat earther what evidence is needed….there is not even a need for the conversation. Just a strong sense of hope that you grow out of this soon.
Good luck. Where you are…a lot of us were. Remember that, and take hope for yourself from it.
Becky – well, you don’t know me, so I can understand how it would be tough to trust what I say. Fair point.
Oh, Dee Martin, one more thing;
Could you please set about answering my questions you asked someone to ask of you prior to 11:30 pm England time (approximately 6:30 pm according to the time stamps on this blog). Because I work nights and have got to get ready for work and want to have something to think about tonight.
Thank you.
Gene – I appreciate your honesty. One of my mentors as I was seeking change later recanted and returned to homosexuality. It did give me something to consider. But years later I find that I’m thankful for the choices I’ve made to continue this journey.
I’m sorry that for some, the fluidity of sexual orientation seems to be a threat of some kind. (Not that I’m saying you feel that way.) I’ve not walked in this direction in order to put anyone else down…it’s just my own life that I’m living day by day.
Dee Martin, I don’t have to know you. I can judge based on what you say.
Dee – you are a little silent on the Janet Boynes book being sold at Love Won Out. Please, enlighten us on this matter.
Hey there Jessica – England eh? Coolness! Unfortunately I will be meeting a friend for dinner this evening (I’m in the US on EST) and although I started to answer your post, I don’t think that I can get back to you before 6:30. You asked good questions and they deserve thoughtful answers, so I’ll ask for your patience.
Food for thought though for this evening…
You wrote that you “wanted to ask someone who claims to have done a 180 from totally homosexual to totally straight a few questions for a while,” well, sorry to say, I’m not someone who would make that claim, so you may be disappointed off the bat with my answers. I’ve found that it’s one of those ways in which people have spoken past one another on this issue for so very long.
Do I now believe my sexual orientation is 100%, perfectly straight? As with any area in life, if you’re looking for someone who is perfect, I’m going to point you to Jesus. He’s the only one who’s lived flawlessly. I’m not 100% perfect in anything – at times I’m greedy, I get lazy, on occasion I lie – I’m far from pristine.
Again, if you’ll be patient with me, I’d like to have the opportunity to give answering your questions a try, though, in hopes that there can be a conversation with one another rather than at one another.
Dee, my point is, neither your mentor, nor you, will ‘succeed’ in this, because there is no ‘succes’ on this, as you call it, journey.
More importantly, it is not NECESSARY. Not to be happy. Not to be moral. Not to be a Christian or Jew, or a person of faith. Not to be an athiest with a moral center and belief in the dignity of all.
It is immoral for your teachers, even though I know most of them believe that they are doing the right thing, to lead you down this path.
Conservative critics will use you, just as they used your mentor while he or she was in denial, as examples of “BUT THEY CAN CHANGE!!! IT’S A CHOICE! THESE PERVS DON’T DESERVE RIGHTS TO MARRIAGE (and the health insureance and other rights that can save a couple and their kids, and as you know, lots of gay families have kids from total RUIN) OR ANY OTHER RIGHTS ‘CAUSE ITS A CHOICE!”
Your inability to accept who God made you to be, ends up DIRECTLY hurting you (as your mentor later saw in his or her case) and DIRECTLY hurting ME, because it is the LAST amo that homophobes can use to make people fight against my families most basic, necessary rights…
Facts a fact. Why do you think the social right touts “change” ministries so much and uses the language of “lifestyle” (lifestyles can be changed…identity truly cannot…just hidden) and “choice” (‘they choose this life, so they have no right to ask for ‘special rights’)
You said you admire honesty..well…there is the honest truth.
Every day you stay on this path, you and others like you DIRECTLY hurt people like me, my husband, and millions of others who NEED our basic rights. I do NOT believe you did it to hurt me…you do not sound cruel or mean. But, the facts, are the facts.
Trying to be who you are not, just as withyour mentor, wont work. The data on the damage of ‘ex gay’ ministries is beyond dispute, and the political right wingers use “ex gays” as an excuse to deny the basic dignity and rights of millions.
Painful to hear…but true.
Becky – bummer. Sorry you feel that way.
Wayne – you’re right! Back at ‘cha after dinner…
Dee- if you do not address the Janet Boynes book in your next post you will be banned. You came on our webiste, made a false claim. I effectively refuted it — and then you slink off without apologizing for misrepresenting Exodus and fibbing about my work.
Deal with the question or find a new website to promote your propaganda. We don’t suffer fools or liars on this site.
42 Dee Martin. No worries. Answer the rest of the questions when you get the chance, so I can read them when I get on line tomorrow. I’ve got enough to think about the moment re change being possible. I’ve even thought of another question;
If you feel you haven’t changed from homosexual to straight 100% how far along the spectrum do you think you have got? Do you reckon you will end up straight one day? Are you aware that you are heading in that direction?
But could you go easy on the ‘Jesus is perfect I’m not’ please, because I don’t believe in Jesus the way a Christian would. Good, clear, solid answers to why YOU, not your God, reckon change is possible, if you please.
For what it’s worth, I think the word ‘liar’ is bandied about too often. There is always room for ‘self-deception’. It is possible to believe something about yourself by denying any other possibility, because you want it to be true.
For example, I might believe I am a great sportswoman, a natural athlete, when in reality I can hardly walk more than say half a mile without my arthritis kicking in. I get upset when people call me out on it. But I am not a great sportswoman. Which leads me to another question; Is it possible that self-deception, in your case, might play a part, you want to please your God and your peers so much you might be exaggerating your level of change?
Another;
Is it possible you may be a bisexual? I am and I’ve gone through long periods of being ‘straight’ then being ‘homosexual’. I’ve got a friend who was wild, drank, did drugs, had a different boy every night, but now is clean, alcohol free and has settled in a civil partnership and is expecting a baby with her wife. She still has feelings for men because well, she is a bisexual.
You understand what I’m getting at.
Anyhow, don’t hassle yourself, as I said, answer the questions when you can and I’ll read them when I get back on line sometimes tomorrow evening.
Take care.
Jessica.
Mr Besen,
Do you reckon that Dee Martin is a plant to spread Exodus International’s propaganda that change is possible? Oh dear! I so wanted her to be genuine. I have got a shed-load of questions for her, questions I’ve e-mailed various ‘ex-gay’ groups and never got an answer.
If she is in it to spread the anti-gay word, well it looks like I was wrong and I’ve got to keep on looking. . .
Never mind!
I would not be surprised if she was a plant. Exodus survives on perpetuating misinformation.
Here’s why we hate Exodus:
I don’t want change to be possible, because if it is, it means I have to accept responsibility for my behavior. It’s a lot easier to say “I was made this way and can’t help it” and then push for others have to accept me. Then you t tell me something I can’t help is wrong.
How DARE you allow anyone to change? My next crusade is to stop the terrorism of calling obesity a health crisis. Those people can’t HELP IT, we need to let them be who they were made to be, it’s too judgmental to say they could actually exercise self control in their diet and exercise. I mean really.
C’mon over to the gay side, see me, love me. I hate you for helping others change.
Hey there Wayne,
In the example you posted, Janet Boynes is writing about wearing high heels. You were stating earlier that it’s all about the lipstick. High heels is a different story – they are crucial, really, in the steps one needs to take…NOT.
Wearing high heels hurts my knees, and are not all that good for us to wear from a biomechanical perspective. (I’m a PT.) Instead I’ve come up with a different method to highlight a toned calf – a radical thing called “exercise.”
Back to the point – I’ve never heard of Janet Boynes (it’s a small world, but not that small), nor of her book. In my experience with Exodus ministries, I’ve not run into anyone encouraging me to do something on the outside to spur change on the inside. And I’ve been pretty sensitive to that issue, after growing up with a mom who was embarrassed about the way I looked.
In looking at the quote from Boynes book above, she is describing the way she made a transition into wearing different clothing, changing her hairstyle, and going to get a manicure. But I’m not getting from that that she is advocating that every woman must do those things in order to experience change. Now I have not read her book, so it could be that she is stating that in the context. But from what I’m reading, it could also be that she is just describing these changes as part of her personal life story.
What I learned during my time around Exodus was that everyone is unique and different in God’s eyes, and there is tremendous room for each one of us to grow and play and learn and to develop your own convictions about how you look. (Hairstyles, dress, etc.) Appearance was not promoted to me as a means of achieving change.
When I was a young girl I went to a camp, and on the last day, just before we were about to leave, one of the counselors ran over to me and said, “Oh, Dee! I was looking all over for you – I wanted to read to you this verse…” It was 1 Peter 3:3-4: “Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.”
That passage was a lifeline for me as I went through high school and college, and as I continued to seek changes in my sexual orientation. For my mom, the way you looked on the outside was crucial, and she never really understood that wasn’t important to me. (She passed away in 2004, and thankfully we re-connected in many ways before she died.) But because of those verses my camp counselor pointed out to me, I knew that God cares most about how beautiful one is on the inside. Not that I’m always a portrait of grace – I have a long way to go in achieving a gentle and quiet spirit! But knowing that it is the inside that counts has been a great help in my life.
PS – Hey – I get that this is your site, and you’re more than welcome to run it as you wish. But in real life, I’m not a plant, I’m an actual person. And as a person, I tend to get hungry and will go out to eat from time-to-time. Tonight I had steamed broccoli, cauliflower, potatoes, and mac-and-cheese…almost a healthy meal. Seriously, though, if you think I’m a plant, first of all I guess that’s some type of a compliment, so, ah – thanks. And secondly, I think you’re over-estimating the resources that Exodus International has, and how they might put them to use.