Even among the virulently homophobic American bishops, Twin Cities Archbishop John Nienstedt stands out. More than perhaps any other prelate in the country (with possible competition from New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan), Nienstedt has turned the fight against marriage equality into an all-out crusade. He’s inserted a prayer for marriage discrimination into the Catholic Mass, turned that church’s holiest sacrament into a weapon against LGBT people, ordered his priests to organize grassroots political committees in their parishes — at parish expense — for the express purpose of drumming up support for Minnesota’s proposed constitutional marriage discrimination amendment, and essentially told those same priests that if they opposed the Minnesota Catholic Church’s war on LGBT people, couples, and families, they had damn well better keep their traps shut about it. (And incidentally, Nienstedt’s spiritual bullying was recently endorsed by none other than the Pope himself.)
With so many malicious anti-gay attacks to his credit, one could be readily forgiven for overlooking another one that I mentioned only briefly in a previous post:
”. . . Nienstedt also spoke about sending teams consisting of ‘a priest and a married couple’ into Catholic schools to discuss marriage discrimination with schoolchildren.”
That’s right: Nienstedt planned to send teams of adults into Catholic schools to teach children that, if the Minnesota Catholic Church has its way in November, only some of them will be worthy of marriage when they grow up.
Awful, no? Well now, thanks to Jon Tevlin of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, we know that these mandatory marriage discrimination lectures are indeed taking place at Catholic schools across the archdiocese. But in at least some of those schools, students are very unhappy about being forcibly subjected to such a decidedly un-Christian message. Tevlin interviewed Matt Bliss, a senior at DeLaSalle High School in Minneapolis, about what happened at his school’s assembly:
“The first three-quarters of the presentation were really good,” said Bliss. “They talked about what is marriage and how marriage helps us as a society. Then it started going downhill when they started talking about single parents and adopted kids. They didn’t directly say it, but they implied that kids who are adopted or live with single parents are less than kids with two parents of the opposite sex. They implied that a ‘normal’ family is the best family.”
“When they finally got to gay marriage, [students] were really upset,” said Bliss. “You could look around the room and feel the anger. My friend who is a lesbian started crying, and people were crying in the bathroom.”
I don’t know about you, but reading stories like this makes my blood boil. But check out what happened next:
Bliss was one of several students who stood up to argue with the representatives from the archdiocese. One girl held up a sign that said, “I love my moms.”
Mike O’Keefe, a spokesman for the school, said that other students were mad that some of the students spoke out and thought that some of them were “rude” to the visitors from the archdiocese.
“We weren’t being rude,” countered Lydia Hannah, another student who spoke out. “But people were upset, and we weren’t just going to sit there.”
The students had ample reason to be angry. According to Hannah, she and her fellow DeLaSalle students were suspicious when they found out that only current seniors would be required to sit through the marriage lecture. She said, ”We put two and two together — all of us will be able to vote next fall [on the constitutional amendment that limits marriage to same-sex couples].” These suspicions were confirmed when the presenters directly addressed the proposed amendment, albeit briefly due to the angry reaction it elicited from the students.
The priest-couple team didn’t stop there, though. Bliss told Tevlin that when someone in the audience stated that two men, for example, were perfectly capable of enjoying a loving, committed, stable relationship, the diocesan couple onstage equated that loving same-sex relationship with bestiality. Hannah was shocked by these comments, and she was equally shocked to hear one of the presenters characterize adopted children as “sociologically unstable.” Hannah herself is adopted.
Bliss eventually decided he’d had enough:
At one point, Bliss raised his hand and, “as politely as I could,” began to argue with the presenters. He used his knowledge of history to refute many of their points, and explained that various cultures have accepted and embraced homosexuality going back hundreds of years.
“I think they were surprised by the history I gave them and surprised that I was so calm,” said Bliss. “I don’t think they expected the response they got from the students.”
Since the diocesan priest and DeLaSalle administration officials abruptly ended the assembly after it became clear the students weren’t exactly drinking the punch, Bliss’s assessment appears to be accurate. Angry students were allowed to stay afterward and continue the discussion with archdiocesan officials, which resulted in a more civil atmosphere, at least temporarily. However, Tevlin wrote that ”the more questions the presenters tried to answer, the worse it got.”
And it didn’t end well. Said Bliss, ”It was a really awful ending. It was anger, anger, anger, and then we were done and they left. This is really a bad idea.”
Predictably — as you probably deduced from the above comment by school spokesman Mike O’Keefe — the school appears to be relatively unconcerned about the lesbian student reduced to tears after being told her sexual orientation renders her unfit to love in a meaningful way, the traumatized teens crying in the restroom after hearing their LGBT friends slandered and humiliated, the adopted children accused of having mental problems, the boy calmly refuting anti-gay lies with historical facts, or the girl bravely standing up for her moms even as she’s forced to hear them belittled in a public forum. No, the school thinks they were being a nuisance, being rude.
I beg to differ. Far from being rude, these kids are standing up for justice and equality. They are speaking truth to power, even when that means challenging the teachings of the very church that many of them presumably have spent their whole lives in. I wouldn’t call that rudeness. I’d call it courage.
If this baloney encounters opposition in a Catholic school how is it going to play in Peoria?
Excellent ….the country needs to hear what is happening in Minnesota and this is the sad truth. I am a lifelong Minnesotan and it is heart breaking to see this happening here. I would never have thought we would see this day where the church is leading a politcal charge on lives of people I dearly love. Will we even recognize our beloved state on election day?
Religion has been and will always be a tool to control people.
The catholic church has and continues to object to any and all forms of social and scientific progress.
Why does society still cling onto ancient beliefs system is beyond me. When society starts to realize that religion is hindering any and all forms of social progress?
Religion needs to be confined to places of worship and the homes of those who follow such nonsense.
Religion has no place in the public sphere
I had to remove a comment advocating violence against Catholic priests. While the anti-LGBT bullying of the Catholic hierarchy is indeed infuriating, TWO cannot and will not condone violent statements of any kind, whether or not they were intended seriously.
In addition, let’s not forget that a majority of Catholics support marriage equality, and many Catholic priests do as well but are often intimidated into silence, as they are in the Minneapolis-St. Paul archdiocese.
So they are against birth control, abortion AND adoption. Pretty rich.
Actually strike the anti-adoption thing. For decades and in many countries the Catholic Church has stolen babies from mothers it deemed unfit, told them that the children lied and then SOLD them to other families.
As upset and angry as I felt while reading about this attempted brainwashing by the archdiocesan team, I was heartened to read about the students who responded to their delivery. They forced the team to cut short their presentation. They would not be silenced despite the pressure to conform. I also wonder about the team that made this presentation. I wondered if they realized how much they were being used by a homophobic (closeted?) archbishop. They were in a position of attempting to convince youths of the rightness of irrational and downright false and offensive and destructive doctrines. NOM, that group that spreads its evil by dividing and manipulating people, would be proud.
But even more, I felt for the students who were being attacked, marginalized and hurt by this archbishop and his obsessions and by the teams who were being sent into the schools. The pain caused by this archbishop and his underlings is beyond the pale. To use religion to destroy and marginalize is an evil thing. To use religion to cause pain to people who are hurting is evil. To use religion to tear down families and their members is evil. Or to restate what Jesus said: “Whatever you do to the least, you do to me.”
I bet the archdiocese didn’t figure that by using this tactic, they’d take an entire roomful of young adults, and, in one sitting, transform them into former Catholics. Nice job! (snark intended).
Archbishop Nienstedt’s recent actions only confirm my belief that he is using this as political capital in his bid to be elevated to Cardinal. That’s all this really is, even among other prelates in the American hierarchy. Notice how Cardinal Dolan toned down his anti-equality rhetoric after he got his red cap (**Please note I said “toned down” not “became supportive”**). Nienstedt doesn’t care what Minnesota Catholics actually think, he just wants a promotion.
As far as I’m concerned, the good Archbishop, like most of his fellow brothers in the Episcopate, is not fit to be a Vicar of Christ. He is a disgrace and should be ashamed of his actions. I have no doubt that Jesus weeps whenever this man opens his mouth.
On a much more positive note, there is one instance of a Hierarch actually doing the right thing:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/austrian-cardinal-christoph-schoenborn-oks-gay-man-florian-stangl-parish-council_n_1397407.html?ref=religion
Cardinal Shoenborn of Vienna reinstated an openly gay man to the lay council in his parish after first being overwhelmingly elected to the position and then removed by a priest. He did this after actually meeting with the man and his partner. Maybe there is hope for LGBT Catholics for the future. But, I’m not holding my breath….
271 celibate bishops are orchestrating this nonsense and we are ALL subsidizing them. If they want to continue to meddle in politics let them convert to a 501(c)4 and not provide donors with a tax deduction. Disgraceful: http://bit.ly/HUBCFt
Religion has a black side to it and this is clearly evident here. Even the LOVE OF THE LORD can’t whiten that heart.
It’s sad to read this, especially knowing that my friend and former Archbishop of the Twin Cities, Harry Flynn, would have certainly been much more christian and understanding in such a situation! Sad!
Okay, I’m glad the students made fools out of the presenters.
But I gotta laugh at the comment of “the lesbian student reduced to tears after being told her sexual orientation renders her unfit to love in a meaningful way.”
Let’s face it, thirty years ago saying marriage is needed to love in a meaningful way was something only religious conservatives would assert and the cultural left and gay movement would reject.
Maybe we do owe the Catholic Church a tip of the hat for preserving an institution our forebearers were ready to discard with!
Now, if you are speaking to high school seniors about the beauty of marriage and lifelong commitment, you will hear little dissent. For most of your listeners this will be the ideal for their own lives.
These teens also live in the real world, though, and many have divorced or separated parents. They have a friend or cousin who is adopted, or they have a gay uncle or aunt or neighbor or friend who live their lives with responsibility and dignity. They see their friends being raised by a single mom or dad and they don’t see them as less-than-anything.
To ask them to hear implications that kids who live with single parents, or kids who are adopted are less than kids who live with two married parents is to ask them to deny what they see every day. To ask them to accept that “bestial” is an appropriate description of relationships between to members of the same sex is (1) incredibly demeaning to all humanity, especially any persons with a homosexual orientation, (2) based on huge assumptions about private activities, and (3) glaringly inappropriate for anyone claiming to represent a faith in one who said “love one another as I have loved you.” Imagine being a young man or woman in that assembly and hearing people of your faith telling you that you are doomed to a lonely life because your natural attraction is no better than a couple of stray dogs rutting in an alley.
It also reveals that the church’s protestations of love and concern are a thin and fractured veneer over its preoccupation with genital acts and rules.
The people speaking for the diocese may have thought they were simply outlining the church’s teachings, but if they didn’t take into account the backgrounds of their audience, they were laughably naive. To these high school students, it may appear that the church WANTS to stigmatize adopted children, gay people, divorced people and single parent families. What has the church accomplished?
The students were right to be suspicious that only seniors, who will be eligible to vote on the Minnesota constitutional amendment, were required to attend. Perhaps the church thought none of the students would figure out they were being told, in a coded way, how to vote. Those who did figure that out now may feel deceived and used and this may color their view of the church. What has the church accomplished?
These people were sent to proclaim the church’s narrow view to people who see a wider view every day. The Catholic church, like all Christian churches, faces an uphill battle against popular culture and this is a big, constantly shifting challenge. But obvious attempts at manipulation like this one at DeLaSalle school are more likely to backfire and do more harm than good to the confidence young people should have in those who guide them in their faith.
Kurt, who is saying that marriage is needed to love in a meaningful way? Gay people aren’t saying that–we’re saying that gay people should have access to the same rights as everyone else. I have to be honest that I’m not completely sure what you’re saying in this sentence:
“Maybe we do owe the Catholic Church a tip of the hat for preserving an institution our forebearers were ready to discard with!”
But I don’t remember a massive movement of people trying to discard marriage–there were some who said that marriage is not neccessary to make a relationship worthwhile or that marriage is an antiquated system but there was never a chance that marriage would be discarded–I see no reason to tip our hat to the Catholic Church as they continue to try to deny us equal rights.
Kurt, thanks for your comment! Marriage had nothing to do with the “loving in a meaningful way” comment. A student made the point that LGBT people are just as capable of forming loving, meaningful relationships (whatever form those may take), and that student was told that same-sex relationships are morally equivalent to bestiality.
Just wanted to set the record straight ;-)
And who the hell is saying that the institution should be discarded?
gay people who are fighting for their access to the institution?
Or the people who claim that if gay people are allowed to marry, decent heterosexuals won’t want to? Or the 40% of heterosexual marriages that end in divorce?Or the 25-33% of heterosexuals who will commit adultery?
Please make sense?
As someone who has taught high school kids in the public and Catholic school systems for over 30 years, I am VERY proud of these kids for speaking up! This is the goal of every teacher, to have their students think for themselves. I’m glad to see that the perpetrators of this intimidation tactic got their comeuppance form the kids! Kudos to all of the students who had the courage to voice their thoughts!
I might be a New Yorker, but I was born and raised in Nebraska, and you might be surprised to learn that the lessons of tolerance our parents’ generation tried to pass on didn’t fall on deaf ears. You’d think that since most of these elders grew up in an era of racism and hatred, they’d have learned, but it seems that prejudices survive even the most instinctive of logic.
Kurt, I know that student and I would say that from what she was able to explain she wasn’t crying because of what she was told about her sexual orientation and meaning of love. She was crying because of anger. When she heard the the husband from the couple that volunteered, bringing up bestiality she didn’t understand why he was comparing that to a same sex couple. If you were in that meeting with those students you would understand where all the anger and tears would come from.
I attended DeLaSalle for my high school education not too long ago and I just wanted to point something out. The DeLaSalle faculty and administration had no say in letting these people come talk; it was mandated by the archdiocese. Secondly, many of the staff of De are vigilant protestors of the amendment and of the archdiocese’s actions. They care greatly for the feelings of their students, and I know for a fact that people like Mike O’Keefe would love to be able to stand up and tell the archdiocese, “No more”. However, DeLaSalle has, for almost the entire history of the school, been at odds with the ever further growing conservative Church, and all they can do to stay in the good graces (and stay open, as they are owned and ran by the archdiocese, being a Catholic school) is lay low and appear to be playing by the rules. It hurts me, an alum who owes much of his accepting and loving worldview to the school, to hear people who do not know anything about the school bash its administration and faculty. The students are a reflection of what the administration wishes they could say, but unfortunately cannot due to a valid fear of harmful and negative backlash by the archdiocese. We should applaud the students for standing up and letting their voices be heard, and also the school as a whole for creating a place where these ideas and opinions can be fostered and an agenda of love and acceptance takes precedence over the master narrative of a misguided Church. Anyone who knows the school understands this, and are right by the sides of these students, as well as the school as a whole. I am unbelievably proud to have attended and graduated from such a fine institution.
This slanted rheotrically emotional and biotted article says: “only some of them will be worthy of marriage when they grow up”
What does that mean? We need to ask our selves what is marriage? If it has a purpose like the betterment of society by the procreation children and the union of the spouses in love and truth then it can’t be changed. And anymovement to change it is an attack on the common good…it’s very simple
The article is full of emotion but there’s not a single argument in it…wake up!
DG- Procreation in marriage is a fine thing, but there are many married people who can’t procreate or just don’t want to. I doubt you’d actually go so far as to say that willingness to procreate should be a requirement for everyone’s marriage, so your first criteria is a bit silly. And gay couples are perfectly capable of a union in truth and love, thus they fit your second criteria.
So where exactly do you see an “attack on the common good”?
I still don’t understand why so many christian conservatives are fighting this fight. The same way “everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten” is true, it’s been an obvious truth to me, for a while now, that these religious conservatives are on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of Jesus’ teachings, and the wrong side of the morality that we all just *knew* was true in kindergarten. Love is love is love. I wonder how many people who fought, in the past, against women or blacks having full-fledged rights, just woke up one day and realized that everything they fought for was a lie.
DG, the last time I looked around, about 40% of the procreating done in this country was done outside of marriage. It’s a false assumption that marriage and procreation are mutual requirements.
That and the fact that many married couples do not procreate are the hard, indisputable facts that need to be pointed out to these delusional hypocrites who try to make everyone else live in their fantasy world.
I come from the northwest of England, where there is a strong catholic population (they arrived in Liverpool from Ireland), and in fact I am technically half-catholic myself.
The vast majority of catholics I know are cool and groovy, don’t see any reason to deny gay people marriage rights, and on the whole seem quite progressive.
It is the HEIRARCHY that is the most right-wing, and they are starting to sound more and more out of touch with their congregants and more in touch with fundamentalist baptists, and I think this just as Nick K. said above (#8), they are all just trying to suck up to this vehemently right-wing Pope, Joseph NAZInger.
Those kids sound awesome. It sounds like any who were upset will get plenty support from their peer group even if the school just pretends that they don’t exist.
I’m 31 but currently at uni with a load of 18 year old undergrads and the change in how their generation view homosexuality compared to my generation is incredible. When I was 18 the issue wasn’t really a big deal, for them there is literally no deal about it at all. Even on the issue of gay marriage most of them seem to recognise that the arguments against it are either dishonest, weird or just plain offensive.
I’m 57-years-old, and in my day no one admitted to being gay or lesbian. I am so proud of these kids for speaking up, and accepting each others’ differences. The Catholic Church is sliding into irrelevancy – just like the Republican Party.
And these religious organizations still enjoy their tax-free status because WHY?
I am 71, adopted, and a grandmother of 9. Bishop Nienstedt is doing more harm than good with his arrogance and non-Christian pronouncements. He is just a God wanna be!
It’s horrifying enough that these disgusting people are tax exempt, but if you attend Catholic Church or donate to that institution, you’re no better than these slimeballs.
My hat’s off to all the kids who brought their whole hearts and brains into this arena of indoctrination. They are proud, patient, thoughtful, honest, justice-loving, kind to one another — you know, the kind of kids everyone used to recognize as good Catholics. I will pray for the diocesan officials and “volunteer” lecturers to be enlightened and inspired by the Christian witness given by these students.
Anti-gay religions have twisted themselves into an untenable position by claiming that the best families are 2 opposite sex biological parents–in doing so they insult not only gay couples and single parents but also adoptive parents. They did this to themselves and they’ll have to face the blowback. It’s especially ironic that the Catholic Church leadership is completely made up of single men with little or no experience raising children.
Words are indequate to convey how proud I am of these men and women who stood up against this sort of hate talk. In fact, I couldn’t be more proud if they had been my own. Sometimes I lament that younger generations seem lost compared to my generation (50s). However, these young adults give me hope that they will overcome the stupidity of my generation. Bless you all.
[...] to Weinstein, Ryan, et al: consider using the American Catholic bishops and Rick Santorum as test subjects for this future study. I have a sneaking suspicion that [...]
Courage indeed. It’s totally dispicable that the church would lead these kinds of “discussions”. There are countless Catholics across the country that disagree with the message they are attempting to spread, and I’m one of them. To me it is completely counter intuitive to the true message of Christ, and it’s very sad.