On Saturday, I repeatedly confronted Holocaust revisionist and anti-gay activist Scott Lively during his lecture at his Draper Park Christian Church in Oklahoma City.
For those unfamiliar with Lively, he founded Abiding Truth Ministries, which was labeled a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. He is author of the heinous book, The Pink Swastika, that blames the Holocaust on gay men. He claims that people are gay because they are molested and promotes the discredited idea that homosexuals recruit children. His latest book, Redeeming the Rainbow, quotes disgraced researcher Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute. He is considered responsible for fostering a climate of hate in Uganda that led to the infamous Kill the Gays bill.
There were 33 people attending his seminar at the suburban Oklahoma City church. My purpose for going was to monitor his talk and confront his lies. This was not easy, because this hardcore fundie church was hostile territory. There was also a police officer on-hand, which made confronting Lively a dicey task. The last thing I needed was to leave the talk in handcuffs, which would have played to Lively’s bogus narrative that he is a Christian martyr besieged by homosexuals.
My trip inside the Lion’s Den was the final action taken in this city by LGBT advocates and their allies. On Thursday, we held a press conference that was covered by the local newspaper, The Daily Oklahoman. On Friday, I participated in a live-audience edition of Oklahoma: Inside Out called “Speaking Only The Truth,” hosted by the Cimarron Alliance’s amazing Executive Director Scott Hamilton.
In the following audio clip, you will hear me repeatedly confront the lies of Scott Lively. There will be numerous instances where you will beg me to speak out, but I was unable to do so. It is critical that people understand that this was not a debate. It was a lecture by Lively, which made speaking out incredibly difficult. I had to look for openings where I could interject without being ejected or arrested. The civil, but glowering, crowd did not make the task any easier. Nevertheless, Truth Wins Out was there on the scene to ensure that Lively would not be able to spew lies without opposition.
At the moment, I am traveling in the heartland so I cannot provide a specific time code for our verbal tussle, nor give an in-depth analysis of his screed. That will come when I get to a proper desk in which I can write more. In the meantime, I have provided the audio of his talk and our sparring for those who are interested.
Kudos to you. What a disgusting piece of offal he is. Now we wait for Lively, Porno Pete and friends to whine about how they were being bullied by Radical Homosexual Activists.
Wayne, this is why you continue to be a hero to me and many in the LGBT community. I was greatly relieved when I heard that you were attending the events in OKC, and especially to hear that you took the opportunity to attend Lively’s appearance in person and confront his lies and twisted propaganda. Thank you for al the work you do, and especially for this latest action. Lively is truly dangerous and should be hounded and confronted at every turn.
By the way, the restraint you showed in letting Lively spew his dogmatic propaganda to the extent you did was admirable. How you kept from jumping in more often than you did is amazing.
Is Lively married? this walking waste of humanity has got too be a self hating closet case.
Wayne, I started to transcribe the audio but it is just to hard. Using my keyboard and the left arrow key, everytime I left arrow it goes back 4:55 seconds. I must have heard the first 2 minutes, 25 times now in my effort to get every single word correct. If you will send me this file I will put it in a different player one that I can run on slow motion.
It is really necessary to get a full transcript so other websites can quote this around as well, get the word out. If a transcript is not provided you will get less action out of this. I am willing to do the transcript just e-mail me the file, not as adobe. Something more generic where I can play it back in slow motion. You have my e-mail address.
Great job in your interaction with Lively. Better you than me, I would not have had the self control that you have. Kudos, you did another great job!
make the above read it goes back 4 minutes and 55 seconds.
@ Eddy,
Word!
Straight Granny:
What is your email address?
What is Lively’s point? What is his purpose as a “Christian” and ” Where is the FRUIT”? Please show us the fruit Mr. Lively!
In my opinion~ Scott Lively seems like a dry drunk and this crusade is his “addiction”. It has become a total and complete obsession. This is legalism at it’s worst and this man is a control freak of the highest order who is completely OUT OF CONTROL. There seems to be a need /compulsion to work out his own issues in a public forum. The three fingers he points at the gay community are pointing back at him. Please Scott take the logs out of your own eyes.
The problem is that legalists will agree with his message and his approach and continue to think they are right and have some “calling” to Police the world and spread the message of “Purity” when in fact the messenger’s are flawed and impure themselves.
Scott Lively a recovering alcoholic/addict has the approach of a former smoker on a crusade to rid the world of people just like his former self. The truth is that he and the othes are simply “sinners aka human beings” who were saved by God’s Grace and have gone on a huge tangent and way off message. There is a compulsion here to “save the world” and rid it of it’s impurity. Which sound’s very much like Hitler/Nazi Germany and in a sense a case of the pot calling the Kettle Black or GAY here. Hmmmmm?
There but for the Grace of God go you Mr. Lively and all of us for that matter. Scott is homosexuality your own issue? I’m really starting to wonder.
Lively fancies himself as some sort of authority on this subject and calls himself a “minister” who knows more about this subject than anyone. (Which is quite grandiose and reminiscent of something an “addict” would say).
When in fact he is doing NOTHING to minister or further the Gospel or a cause for Christ. Again, what is the point? What is his purpose? Where is the fruit?
Please don’t say apologetics. Because frankly, Scott should be APOLOGIZING to people world-wide for this crazy, divisive, obsessive and harmful message to people God absolutely loves and adores and is trying to reach. We are dealing with HUMAN BEINGS here not the monsters of your imagination’s making.
Lively’s “sermon” does nothing to draw people to Christ – if that is his intention and purpose. NEWS ALERT- his message is repelling them world wide. This is not Evangelism at it’s finest quite the opposite.
If he enjoys preaching to the legalistic choir and rousing people to hate folks they don’t actually know- then he has indeed succeeded. Not because he is hard on what he is calling “sin” but because his message is divisive and singles out a group of people and calls them something worse than the rest of humanity. That is ERROR. THAT IS WRONG. It is an Epic Gospel message – FAIL!!
Christianity 101- The Ground at the foot of the Cross is level and God loves ALL of us- WARTS aka SINS and ALL. If this is truly a Christian approach- which it is NOT- then please “SHOW US THE DAMN FRUIT”!!
My log in name then Google mail
Great job Wayne.
I need a shower after listening to all of his incredible BS. I can only imagine how you must have felt in there. Thank you for doing it.
I feel queasy- literally sick to my stomach. Talk about manipulation of information? Perhaps a debate should be in order- it is definitely needed.
He said no one has ever taken him up on his “challenge to debate him- well, ” set up a time and a place that’s neutral and have at it. There are so many holes and flaws in his presentation it is ridiculous.
It astounds me that even 33 people showed up to listen to this mans divisive, unhelpful shrill. He actually talks about Uganda with pride. That in and of itself is incredibly twisted and disconcerting.
Encouraging, being supportive of and cajoling people into actually considering putting a law into place in Uganda that ultimately seeks to Kills Gays or to put them and their families in prison is about as far from Christ’s Love as you can get. It is insanity and a witch hunt.
There is nothing redemptive, helpful or hopeful in Mr. Lively’s message. NOTHING. It is FEAR MONGERING and PARANOIA. I’ve personally heard all I need to hear from Scott Lively.
This may very well be a mental health issue that he is dealing with in a very public way. I hope he considers getting some serious help /therapy and a LIFE while he’s at it.
When ever I leave church I usually feel up lifted. I feel like I want to throw up and have a gnawing in the pit of my stomach – that is clearly NOT a man of God and he is definitely NOT a Christian. He is a POSER – A Wolf in Sheep’s clothing and an opportunist. God doesn’t need Scott Lively out Policing the world. He is a menace and a danger to society. He is someone who wants us to look at THEM so we won’t look at HIM.
Too late- We can see and hear you.
It is clear that Lively is the one who needs help. It’s very SAD and unfortunately he is harmful to others which is something that should be looked at and very seriously considered by the authorities.
This constant conflation of LGBT civil rights with “the left” is so wearying. The pretense that “diversity is a good thing” is so disingenuous. His assertion that LGBT people redefine language and won’t stick to generally accepted understandings of words is such breathtaking self-projection for a fundagelical christianist, that its hard to believe I heard him say it with my own ears.
Thanks Scott, for giving me a new understanding of history! To think in 1948 Harry Hay started the sexual revolution! Wonder if he knew that. Only 3 STDs known in the ’40s because it was before the gay sexual revolution! No herpes in the 1940s! Wow, wasn’t life great then! I’m so glad he doesn’t care what gay people do as long as they keep it under wraps. Of course he cares for us and doesn’t want us to harm ourselves, demonstrating (of course) the blessed love of Jeebus his gawd almighty. I also didn’t know that “every single person on this planet was born with male or female genitalia” and that “were made to make babies”. Also good to know our orientation is a function of our “genitalia”. Thanks for referring us to that brilliant man of antiquity Aristotle with his deep insights into 20th century science, too! And of course, cite the holey buybull with all of its demonstrable ‘hysterical’ accuracy to confirm your hypothesis that men and women were created to be “one flesh” (whatever the hell that doublespeak means).
The best way to stop a bully is to show them “the common humanity of the person”. Right Scott: bullies just need to know that those pansy gay boys they are bashing are really just regular ole (nazi) guys like they are. I’ll bet Scott’s anti-bullying campaign will really take off, if we can just get it implemented.
Didn’t realized “the 1940′s Warren Court” was so hard on religion. Especially since Earl Warren didn’t get appointed to the Supreme Court until 1953. Also good to know that the buybull doesn’t forbid “heterosexual sodomy”! It is so good to have Scott the buybull mullah to show us the goodness of gawd’s word.
The whole monologue with all of its attempts to throw in Aristotle and natural law is, in the end, a religious polemic. It confirms the observation that the only arguments against marriage equality are either aesthetic (the yuck factor) or religious revelation (irrational and unverifiable faith-based belief). Scott appeals to both with his anecdotal description of urine-fetish “homosexual” Sonny, and the sexual molestation meme as the “cause” of homosexuality to demonstrate the “yuck” factor. Of course gays are out to recruit our children gets trotted out as well along with the requisite buybull quotes. Of course “rebellion against authority” and the “patriarchal society” turns out to be one of the reason women go gay along with “going into heavy athletic” activities.
He was “very liberal” when he was a drug addict in Portland, Oregon. Which he was still on some kind of medicine. He was probably a nicer human being before he “met the Lard”.
I couldn’t listen to it all but I swear Wayne, you are unbelievably centered to be able to sit through his batshit crazy nonsense. I couldn’t do it. I’m sending you guys another check. Your work in confronting these christianists is absolutely essential to our survival in this theo-political environment.
Lively said that no one will take up his offer to debate? He actually said that??????? For real?
My discussion with him was only tangentially about gay issues — but I had an extensive conversation with him — I initially had placed a disclaimer repeatedly saying that either of us could use the discussion (which was by email0 for publication but at the very end of the exchange he suddenly included an assertion which I (and a friend) interpreted to make our use of the conversation in print dicey legally.
I will try calling your office in a minute Wayne, please if I can’t reach you contact me. I have been increasingly toying with an e-book on the exchange as I have gotten more distance from the discussion – I now believe that I may be within my rights to publish, since he did not assert anything until the last message exchange. I will consult an attorney to be certain — in any event, thank you for this event in OKC and please contact me.
Kind thoughts,
Reyn
Yes he actually said that….
This from Lively Himself- The # 8 Challenge.
8. Author Scott Lively sdllaw@gmail.com has for 17 years issued a standing challenge to debate any challenger in any neutral public forum. Not a single challenger has dared to accept.
Here is a link to the rest. http://www.scottlively.net/
I am in Oklahoma City this weekend to give a series of talks at Draper Park Christian Church starting this evening. It seems that my every appearance now is considered a crisis by the “gay” community. A-List trouble-maker Wayne Besen flew in from Vermont to participate in a press conference designed to portray me as a Holocaust Revisionist. http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/04/24605/
The Oklahoman published this story:
http://newsok.com/pink-swastika-authors-oklahoma-city-visit-stirs-coalitions-ire/article/3670146
I drafted the following response:
The Pink Swastika Fact Sheet
The Pink Swastika Fact Sheet
The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams, Veritas Aeterna Press. First Edition 1995. Current Fourth Edition 2002. 387 pages.
Thesis: The National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazi Party) has its roots in the German homosexual movement and was controlled throughout its history by an inner-circle of men, including Adolf Hitler, who shared a common homosexual orientation.
Purpose: The Pink Swastika was written to counter an effort by the American homosexual political movement begun in the 1970s, symbolized by the use of the pink triangle, to fabricate a “Gay Holocaust” equivalent to the Holocaust of the Jews by exaggerating the Nazi persecution of homosexuals and suppressing documentation of the role of homosexuals in the rise and rule of the Nazi Party.
Sources: Over 200 sources are cited in The Pink Swastika, primarily mainstream historians who wrote during or shortly after the Nazi era, such as William Shirer (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich) and Hitler contemporaries Conrad Heiden and Otto Strasser. Over 25% of the sources are homosexual publications, such as Homosexuality and Male Bonding in Pre-Nazi Germany by Harry Oosterhuis and Hubert Kennedy.
1. The Pink Swastika is not Holocaust revisionism. Scott Lively is a Pro-Israel Christian. Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox Jew. The book affirms the Holocaust of the Jews as factual and undeniable. Accusations to the contrary are false and baseless.
2. The Pink Swastika fully and factually addresses the persecution of homosexuals by the Nazi regime, citing leading “gay” scholars to affirm that from 5,000-15,000 homosexuals died in Nazi work camps.
3. The Pink Swastika does not assert that homosexuals caused the Holocaust.
4. The Pink Swastika corrects historical revisionism by the homosexual political movement which greatly exaggerated claims of homosexual victimhood to falsely equate “gays” with Jews under the Nazis. In nearly every instance the book counters these false claims by citing responsible homosexual sources. After its publication the “gay” activist community was forced to drop that effort and traded the pink triangle for the rainbow flag as the primary symbol of the movement.
5. The Pink Swastika compiles, for the first time since Samuel Igra’s 1945 book Gernany’s National Vice, the extensive documentation of homosexuality in the Nazi movement, but with the benefit of hundreds of additional sources that were not available to Igra.
6. The apparent contradiction of homosexual Nazis persecuting other homosexuals by imprisoning them in work camps is fully explored and explained by examining the division in Germany’s “gay” subculture between a masculine-oriented “butch” faction which found a home in the Nazi Party, and a feminine-oriented “femme” faction which primarily aligned with the rival Communist Party.
7. The Pink Swastika has not been “discredited” except by homosexualist reviewers, most of whom have failed to disclose their ideological conflict of interest. The few non-homosexual critics of the book have no expertise in the history of the “gay” movement and are thus not qualified to render judgment.
8. Author Scott Lively sdllaw@gmail.com has for 17 years issued a standing challenge to debate any challenger in any neutral public forum. Not a single challenger has dared to accept.
And the latest from Scott Lively- mentioning Waynes visit to his seminar.
Redeeming the Rainbow
Posted on April 29, 2012 by Pastor Scott
Today I gave a three hour seminar in Oklahoma City based on my 2009 textbook Redeeming the Rainbow: A Christian Response to the “Gay” Agenda. This is the book I wrote to equip Christians to understand and effectively respond to the homosexual agenda. It may be downloaded in PDF form without charge at http://www.defendthefamily.com/rtr/. The file is small enough to send as an e-mail attachment and I encourage people to send it to all of their pro-family friends.
This is the book I was finalizing during my 2009 Uganda conference (and the basis of my lectures there) which subsequently brought the wrath of the radical left upon me and has led to the outrageous SMUG lawsuit filed against me (for “Crimes Against Humanity” no less) last month in federal court in Springfield, MA where I now live. I will address that lawsuit in a separate post at a later date.
My seminar today was attended by none other than Wayne Besen of Truth Will Out, a prominent “gay” blogger. He was civil and polite for the most part, but visibly quite agitated and finally left the seminar after being criticized by another man for interrupting me. There were two women in the audience as well whom I suspect, based upon their questions, were lesbians.
I do not vary my presentations based on the presence of opponents. I seek always to teach forthrightly what I know and believe to whomever wants to listen.
Redeeming the Rainbow is the only book of its kind, filled with straightforward explanations of the the history, methods, strategies and goals of the homosexual movement, and practical, user-friendly guidelines on how to respond to it. If every Christian in America were to read this book it would, I believe, dramatically change the national debate in our favor.
And Sola’s Response- I hope no one has blocked her- but she’s says she has been blocked in response to Livelys post.
One Response to Redeeming the Rainbow
Sola Scriptura says:
April 29, 2012 at 8:56 pm
We have posted comments in support of Scott Lively on Truth Wins Out and Canyonwalkerconnections.The latter banned us from posting any further comments, and the former, which should be called Untruth Wins Out,clearly demonstrated that they are out to misrepresent and discredit all opposition.
Yes Paul- you are right Lively is RIDICULOUS.
Plain and simple.
Scott Lively is dealing with a mental illness and he is a Megalomaniac:
Which is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. ‘Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs’.[1] Historically it was used as an old name for narcissistic personality disorder prior to the latter’s first use by Heinz Kohut in 1968, and is used these days as a non-clinical equivalent.[2][3] It is not mentioned in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)[4] or the International Statistical Classification of Diseases (ICD).
He has a severe Hitler Complex and wants to spread lies in hopes that eventually people will believe his revisionist history. He would also like to sell a lot of books.
You are dealing with a very sick individual who needs help.
For those of you who ALSO didn’t know, or forgot, Scott Lively was also a part of the Oregon Citizens Alliance in the early 90′s a “chrisitan” group who wanted to alter the Oregon State Constitution to make Homosexuality an act categorized with Necrophilia and Bestiality. The organization sponsored two attempts to make changes – but eventually was, more or less, run out of town on a rail under scrutiny for expense questions and a more and more detailed agenda out of touch with the real world. Mr Lively also assaulted a photographer for our local Gay paper in Portland and a judgement was awarded against him for his actions. he skipped out on that payment and I’m not sure that he has ever made good on that judgement. Bottom line. Batshit crazy…
Good job on confronting the demons of homophobia!
6:40am, Tuesday morning. Scott Lively, at 1:26 in YOUR audio clip, waxes poetic about the virtues of the Spartans, and their militaristic version of paederasty, which he evidently finds just as exciting as his militaristic-paederastic fantasies about the Nazis. He has doubtless been reading Bill Percy on the origins of Greek Paederasty. I’m eagerly transcribing all of Scott’s Lively Chatter for the amusement of BoyChat. And now it’s down. As always, Wayne is the MASTER OF THE DISCOURSE, and his blog will be unsoiled with images of homosexuality he finds inconvenient. I very much wanted to hear WHAT WORDS precisely motivated Wayne to walk out . . . the huffy walk-out having been used on Dan Savage this week as well…
—-WAYNEWINSOUT
WayneWinsOut:
No words prompted my walk out. I challenged Lively multiple times and was thinking of leaving. I had to drive from Oklahoma City to St. Louis and wanted to get on my way. An audience member spoke up and said, “I came to hear Scott Lively speak and not you.”
I saw the cop on hand edge closer to the door. At that point I figured I said about as much as I was going to get in without upsetting people. And Lively does have the right to speak, I never disputed this. So, it seemed like a good time to begin my road trip.
I challenged the holocaust revisionist. Hopefully, this will lead people to learn more about his lies on their own. Mission accomplished. It was time to go. After all, the goal was to register a challenge to his nonsense, not hijack the speech.
Wayne, I have admired your words for a loong time. Now I am overjoyed to hear your words spoken in truth and confidence and with such courage. You are a hero to this 71 year old gay man. Blessings for ALL you do and how well you do it. And Thank you!
The Bible, the inerrant and holy word of God,clearly and repeatedly condemns homosexuality, which is why militant homosexuals hate Christianity.
So how many slaves do you own do2?
do2-
You said;
The Bible, the inerrant and holy word of God clearly and repeatedly condemns homosexuality, which is why militant homosexuals hate Christianity.
A few respectful questions from one adult to another;
How do you know the Bible is the inerrant and holy word of God? Say opposed to the Qur’an or the Talmud or Bhagavad Gita or Book of Mormon?
Can we agree that it’s your belief that the Bible is the inerrant and holy word of God?
How do you understand God?
The link in your name leads to the MSN US site. Are you saying this is your website on line?
Do you identify as an ex-gay?
The Bible condemns homosexuality. It also condemns planting two different kinds of seed in one field and mixing different materials to make clothes, and picking up sticks to make a fire on a certain day. Why not follow this rule?
Do you agree that the Bible has no problem with slavery. Not just in the Old Testament. Why didn’t Paul tell Philemon that he was going to free Onesimus because owning people was not Christian?
Anyhow, all the best to you and I await your response.
do2, the bible condemning innocent people is a good reason to hate christianity and there’s nothing militant about that. In fact it is militant to support the bible in condemning gays.
The Bible is about as inerrant as the Internet. Anyone who believes that is a psychological savage. It is a book that can be useful and even inspired through its vivid parables. But anyone who reads it literally is both a hypocrite and a fool.