You’ve heard by now, because the Right has been going nuts about it all weekend, that Dan Savage spoke to a group of high school journalism students, and in the course of that talk, Dan was Dan, and now lots of people are upset. I really didn’t want to write about it, because it’s so stupid, but it’s everywhere, so here goes.
The first thing I’d point out is that, when the story hit Fox News, it had been languishing in the darkest corners of Wingnuttia for a couple of weeks. Because I have to subscribe to such things, I had seen it on Focus on the Family’s blog, but normal people wouldn’t have seen it. Then, as I said, it hit Fox. And oh, did it hit Fox. Here’s the latest article on the website of this organization that purports to report the news:
Christian Teens Say Gay Activist Made Girls Cry
Oh, LORD. Reading through the piece, I feel like these kids have been coached in how to act like victims, because it’s clear, even from reading the Fox piece, that, aside from when Dan called them “pansy-assed” for getting up and leaving [which was not nice, but Dan already apologized for that], he wasn’t personally attacking the kids at all, but rather critiquing the Bible. That should not be off limits, especially in a room full of bright, shining journalism students. Before we get to looking at different people’s reactions to this, though, let’s look at the entire text of what Dan said. It’s notable that the wingnut websites screaming and crying about this, for the most part, are not posting his complete remarks. Towleroad did the other day, though:
The Bible. We’ll just talk about the Bible for a second. People often point out that they can’t help it — they can’t help with the anti-gay bullying, because it says right there in Leviticus, it says right there in Timothy, it says right there in Romans, that being gay is wrong.
We can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people. The same way, the same way we have learned to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. We ignore bulls**t in the Bible about all sorts of things. The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document. Slave owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War and justified it. The shortest book in the New Testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave. And Paul doesn’t say “Christians don’t own people.” Paul talks about how Christians own people.
We ignore what the Bible says about slavery, because the Bible got slavery wrong. Tim — uh, Sam Harris, in A Letter To A Christian Nation, points out that the Bible got the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced wrong. Slavery. What’re the odds that the Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? One hundred percent.
The Bible says that if your daughter’s not a virgin on her wedding night — if a woman isn’t a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father’s doorstep and stoned to death. Callista Gingrich lives. And there is no effort to amend state constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding night if they’re not virgins. At least not yet. We don’t know where the GOP is going these days.
People are dying because people can’t clear this one last hurdle. They can’t get past this one last thing in the Bible about homosexuality.
Um, one other thing I wanna talk about is — [chuckles] — so, you can tell the Bible guys in the hall that they can come back now, because I’m done beating up the Bible. It’s funny, as someone who’s on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back.
I apologize if I hurt anyone’s feelings. But. I have a right to defend myself. And to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible, and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other.
And scene. You’d have to be extremely oversensitive with the reading comprehension of Porno Pete to interpret that as a personal attack on either Christianity or those Christian students. I understand that Fundamentalists are nothing if not perpetually butthurt, but everything Dan said right there is true. Moreover, it has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity as a whole, just the hypocrites who use their favorite six Bible verses as an excuse to continue hurting gay people, when there are thousands of verses those same hypocrites ignore on a daily basis. And Dan also has a point when he says, “it’s funny, as someone who’s on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back.”
I would suggest that Dan’s statement right there has been vindicated by the entire activation of the wingnut pout-rage noise machine in the days since. But there’s another element here, which needs to be pointed out. The Religious Right and their media outlets are losing it over this because they want to deflect attention from the work Dan Savage has done to curb anti-gay bullying, because they don’t want anti-gay bullying to stop. They don’t call it “bullying,” but bullying is what they support just the same. Religious Right activists have been pushing back since the suicides of gay teens started getting media attention, working to preserve their right to bully gay kids while hiding behind their religious beliefs. They call this “witnessing,” but a distinction needs to be drawn, as there is a huge difference between fundamentalist Christians trying to sell their religious beliefs to someone and telling them that, due to their “lifestyle,” if they don’t buy what they’re selling, they’ll burn in hell for all eternity. That’s bullying, and it’s modeled every Sunday in pulpits across the nation.
Now, let’s look at some of their reactions, starting with the above linked piece in Focus on the Family’s Citizenlink:
A 17-year-old from California who was attending with half a dozen other students from her high school yearbook staff, was one of several students to walk out in the middle of Savage’s speech.
“The first thing he told the audience was, ‘I hope you’re all using birth control!’ ” she recalled. Then “he said there are people using the Bible as an excuse for gay bullying, because it says in Leviticus and Romans that being gay is wrong. Right after that, he said we can ignore all the ‘B.S.’ in the Bible.
“I was thinking, ‘This is not going a good direction at all,’ Then he started going off about the Bible. He said somehow the Bible was pro-slavery. I’m really shy. I’m not really someone to, like, stir up anything. But all of a sudden I just blurted out, ‘That’s bull!’ ”
Actually, ma’am, it’s not “bull.” While it remains unsurprising that liberals and secular people understand the Bible better than the average Fundamentalist, it shouldn’t be considered cruel to simply explain to people what that book actually says. Also, it’s good that he hopes they’re all using birth control, because a lot of the teenagers in that room are having sex. Dan knows this, and while wingnuts may want to believe that their abstinence-only sex ed has been working, grown-ups know it’s not and that teens have sex. Birth control, therefore, is a good idea.
Here is one of the dumbest people on the planet, Fox News’ Steve Doocy, who claims that Dan was “bullying” those Christian kids by stating the obvious:
The thing is, Dan didn’t single anyone out until the end, once the kids had already walked out. Fundamentalist Christians, listen up: being forced to hear a speaker critique your beliefs from the stage is not in and of itself “bullying.” You may not like what you hear, and you have every right to rebut it in an appropriate forum, but that’s not “bullying.” As I said above, Dan already apologized for using the phrase “pansy-assed,” but he was right even then, in noticing just how quickly Fundamentalists, who dish out more hate upon our society on a daily basis, toward minorities, on both a collective and an individual basis, start screaming and crying the second somebody pushes back, even a little bit.
Here’s Fox News again, with the victimization story of another student who walked out, Jake Naman, 18:
“The very second he said the Bible and paused, I knew it was going to get ugly,” Naman told Fox News. “It was about to be a bashing.”
No, Jake, it was not a “bashing.” He critiqued a book that he obviously knows better than you do. A “bashing” is something that many gay people experience when people with “traditional values” beat the shit out of them.
The 18-year-old Eagle Scout and captain of the high school track team rose to his feet – and walked out – passing by hundreds of other students who were cheering the anti-bullying advocate’s profanity-laced rant.
“I felt like in my heart I couldn’t just stay there at all,” he said. “It was a really weird feeling I just had to get out. I didn’t want to cause a scene but I really could not stand to be in that room anymore.”
Jake Naman said he felt – bullied.
Maybe he can grow up and write for WorldNetDaily or something. They specialize in faux-victim stories.
“If Dan Savage had gotten up there and said ‘God hates homosexuals and they’re all going to hell,’ there would have been huge outrage from that crowd,” he said. “As Christians we get the other side of that. When our faith is attacked like that – we are ridiculed for taking a stand against it.”
And yet, Jake, Dan didn’t say something even remotely as harsh about Christians as that. Indeed, he wasn’t even talking about Christians, but rather Christians who are hypocrites! He didn’t attack your faith. If it feels personal to you, perhaps you’re one of the hypocrites he’s talking about. Here is his sister:
“I was shaking,” Julia Naman told Fox News. “I saw my brother pop up and leave and I took off after him.”
So did 17-year-old Haley Mulder.
“I never felt more hurt, felt persecuted,” Mulder said. “For me, my faith is what I Want to be defined by. For someone to say it was B.S. is really hurtful. I felt put down and bullied because of my faith.”
Persecuted?! What are they teaching Fundie kids these days, that they would view having to confront a differing viewpoint as persecution? Note also the recurring use of words such as “persecution” and “bullying.” Again, it’s almost like they’ve been coached.
Now, the wingnut noise machine has been all over this, and the Religious Right, yadda yadda yadda, but it’s really embarrassing when the quislings of GOProud, who theoretically should at least understand the issues at hand here, join the pitchfork brigade. Here is their press release. The stupid, it burns:
Jimmy LaSalvia, GOProud Executive Director – “Dan Savage’s outrageous anti-Christian tirade hurts – not helps – the fight for gay rights in this country.”
(Washington, D.C.) – Today, GOProud – a national organization of gay and straight Americans seeking to promote freedom by supporting free markets, limited government, and a respect for individual rights, condemned a speech given by left wing gay activist Dan Savage. “Dan Savage’s outrageous anti-Christian tirade hurts – not helps – the fight for gay rights in this country,” said Jimmy LaSalvia, GOProud Executive Director. “There is nothing incompatible between being a Christian and believing that all people should be treated equally, and Dan Savage’s attacks on Christianity only fuel those on the extremist fringe who oppose gay rights.”
“Dan Savage should apologize for his comments and should apologize to the high school students in attendance who he called ‘pansy-asses,’” continued LaSalvia. “It is ironic that someone whose claim to fame is fighting bullying would resort to bullying tactics in attacking high school students who were offended by his outrageous remarks.”
“GOProud works with people of faith every single day – gay and straight. We believe strongly that people of faith should be treated with respect,” concluded LaSalvia.
At least we know that the thing that ties LaSalvia and the rest of Wingnuttia together is their shared lack of reading comprehension skills. No one is questioning whether there are millions of people of faith who also support equality. No one. Especially not Dan Savage. But to call Dan’s remarks an “anti-Christian” tirade simply plays into the Fundamentalist Victim Complex where anybody who says or does anything they don’t like is at war with them or something. Here, let a Christian explain it to you. John Shore? I’m quoting liberally:
Besides the fact that he was raised in a devoutly Catholic home and is the country’s leading gay activist, who is Dan Savage to say anything at all about the ages-old Christian condemnation of gay people? So what if his claim is manifestly valid that nothing contributes more to the destruction of the lives of gay people than do Christians falsely and hypocritically using the Bible as an instrument of brutality? So what if he believes that among the most egregious of all Christian sins is daring to proclaim that God’s love ends where their own fear and hatred begin? So what if every day, for decades on end, Dan Savage has dealt with young lives obliterated through violence informed and buttressed by the bedrock “Christian” view that gay people are less than human?
So what if any reasonably compassionate person should be expected to vigorously assert that it’s time for all Christians to reject using the Bible as a means of justifying the persecution of an entire population whose only “crime” is to prefer to spend their lives with same-sex partners?
Why should any of that matter? What matters is that Dan Savage cursed. He said bull**** not once, but three times.
Quelle horreur!
And high school students have never heard curse words! John also explains why their cries of being “bullied” are, well, bullsh*t:
What immediately become a meme amongst Dan’s critics is that those who walked out of his talk felt bullied by him. But that’s impossible. People get bullied because of who they are: how they look and act, what they say and do. Perceived as being in some critical way weak or lacking, victims of bullies are selected for persecution; they are pulled from the pack before being pointedly and repeatedly victimized. The people who walked out during Dan’s talk were not separated from their peers by anyone. They were content to do that themselves. They were not frightened or cowed. They were offended. They felt that by disparaging what amounts to their God, Dan had transgressed beyond their capacity for toleration. And they were pleased to show their intolerance of Dan’s words by protesting against them in the manner they did. Theirs was not an act born of suffering. It was a proud show of disdain.
Aha! John is smart. I will say, though, that by drawing that distinction, John shows just how good fundies have gotten at training their children up into the doublespeak world they inhabit as adults. Simultaneously righteous, good, the voice of Real Americans, yet also the most oppressed, victimized minority this world has ever seen. Some of their mega-churches don’t even have tennis courts.
Anyway, to sum up: this is all manufactured outrage, just like pretty much everything else wingnuts scream about. Dan Savage said a potty word to some high school students, said the same thing about ignoring obsolete parts of the Bible that he does in talks around the nation, some kids got mad and conveniently found a Focus on the Family “news reporter,” and now we’re wasting our time talking about it. Well done, wingnut noise machine. You never fail to distract Americans from real issues.
Here’s the video from Dan’s talk if you haven’t heard it:
UPDATE: Here is Dan Savage’s partial apology, and a clarification of his remarks about the Bible:
I would like to apologize for describing that walk out as a pansy-assed move. I wasn’t calling the handful of students who left pansies (2800+ students, most of them Christian, stayed and listened), just the walk-out itself. But that’s a distinction without a difference—kinda like when religious conservatives tells their gay friends that they “love the sinner, hate the sin.” They’re often shocked when their gay friends get upset because, hey, they were making a distinction between the person (lovable!) and the person’s actions (not so much!). But gay people feel insulted by “love the sinner, hate the sin” because it is insulting. Likewise, my use of “pansy-assed” was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong. And I apologize for saying it.
As for what I said about the Bible…
A smart Christian friend involved politics writes: “In America today you just can’t refer, even tangentially, to someone’s religion as ‘bullshit.’ You should apologize for using that word.”
I didn’t call anyone’s religion bullshit. I did say that there is bullshit—”untrue words or ideas”—in the Bible. That is being spun as an attack on Christianity. Which is bullshhh… which is untrue. I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised. I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against—and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying “motivated by faith”)—because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong. Yet the same people who make that claim choose to ignore what the Bible has to say about a great deal else. I did not attack Christianity. I attacked hypocrisy. My remarks can only be read as an attack on all Christians if you believe that all Christians are hypocrites. Which I don’t believe.
And neither do I.
UPDATE DEUX: Thers, saying everything that needs to be said in as concise terms as possible:
But then, to keep perspective.
Name the teenager who commited suicide because of a profound shame at being, deep down, a Christian.
Go ahead.
Heh.
You’re right, Evan. Fundies teach their children to be victims & the hilarious thing about it is, they have their pastors standing before their congregations every Sunday morning declaring how they cannot wait to be persecuted for Christ. They claim they want to go to prison for Christ. They want to die for Christ. And then, as soon as someone says ‘boo!’ to them, they fall apart like the cowards they are & start to whine & whimper & look for the nearest religious right blog they can find to sob about the mistreatment they’ve received from the awful gays. Yet I do not see the fundie teens hanging themselves from the years of battering & name-calling & physical attacks. Why would they, when they are the cowards doing the bullying?
I support Dan Savage 100%, because what he said is true. The LGBT community has been savaged by so-called “born again Christians,” and there is no reason why we shouldn’t respond in kind. They drive young LGBT people to despair, and when we dare to respond, they claim the victim mantle. The Bible says countless things that are, in fact, total bullsh*t.
It IS a pro-slavery document. It DOES demand execution for all sorts of people. It is anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-science. How long are we supposed to stand by and not state the obvious?
One simple lesson that fundamentalists need to learn is this, and it is so simple: If you want to believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, fine. If you want to live your life according to the Bible, fine. If you choose to reject science in favor of religious fables which teach that humanity began with two people in a garden (until a talking snake came along), fine, knock yourself out. I don’t care.
But when you start condemning other people for living their lives according to a different set of rules, you cross the line. When you lecture people about what is the most personal part of their lives, you reveal just how bankrupt your own sense of morality really is.
You cannot expect people to remain silent when you consign them to hell or publicly declare that they are condemned by God. When I was a teenager, I was Pentecostal. The abuse that I received was monstrous. I truly believed that these were “God’s people” and that their words were Gospel.
For years, I was terrified that I would be tortured for all eternity unless I developed an attraction toward women. I wasted so many of my young years listening to their bullsh*t. While other young men were enjoying their youth, I was begging God to change me from the pitiful person that they told me I was. You cannot rob people of their youth and then feign offense when they push back.
They know nothing of Jesus. He began his earthly ministry by hanging around with a PROSTITUTE. He embraced lepers, and spoke of the least among us. He told us to not judge. These rubes don’t follow the Bible. They’ve had a right-wing political agenda forced upon them; they fail to see that their actions aren’t Christian just because you throw in a hallelujah or two.
“Christianity” and “decency” are not one and the same.
For every action, there is a reaction. So let the word get out: LGBT will no longer respect you or your faith if you fail to respect us. As my mother taught me when I was a child, “If you want respect, you have to give respect.”
Maybe if he said, ‘outdated beliefs that are time and culture bound’, instead of b******t, it would have sounded more savy and had a better impact.
Possibly, Gary, but at the same time, an overlooked aspect of this is that Dan didn’t say anything he hasn’t been saying in college talks for years. Porno Pete is currently all bitching about a talk Dan did at Rhodes College where he said something allegedly offensive. I was at the Rhodes talk and it was no different from his other talks. Wingnuts have been gunning for Dan for a long time and in this, they see their opportunity for the greatest level of poutrage because he was speaking to 16-18 year olds instead of college students. Big effing deal.
So I just don’t think it really would have mattered WHAT he said. They simply had their canned story delivered to them. A few members of the Bob Jones class of 2018 were in attendance and they pouted. Signed, Sealed, Delivered, activate Wingnut Noise Machine, wheeeeeee!
The really encouraging thing, though, is to watch the video and listen to the majority of the kids cheering. This was a journalism conference, so obviously the room was full of smart kids, which means it’s going to be weighted in our direction, but that’s the future of America.
If they can “hate the sin but love the sinner”, why can’t I hate the beliefs but love the believer? Why is any question of any of their beliefs automatically being anti- Christian? This whole thing smells like a planned stunt to me. They knew they were going to hear Dan Stage speak and are surprised to hear something that is not in accord with their fundamental beliefs? Please. They were waiting for a moment to express faux outrage.
I agree with Chris M. They started walking out as soon as Dan opened his mouth. I’ll bet they were planning on walking out even if he was talking about the weather forecast..just because it was Dan..
Dan made a lot of sense and told the truth. These good “Christians” hate it when you put a mirror to their faces and they are forced to see their ugly and “un-Christian” behavior.
Savage is an idiot, but he’s a useful idiot, and even a stopped clock is right twice a day and this is definitely one of his stopped clock moments.
People who selectively quote the bible — besides the fact that they’re using a collection of fairy tales as reference material — to justify their hate need to be asked how many slaves they own, when was the last time they stoned to death a non-virgin bride and if they’ve ever eaten shellfish.
Then they need to be told to shut the fictional hell up.
Not sure how you can say Dan Savage is an idiot, but you’re right about the Bible.
Considering how many LGBT teens have suffered and died at the hands of these people I can’t summon up too much sympathy over these girls, who were probably acting anyway.
I don’t think Dan Savage is an idiot and cannot imagine what evidence you have justyou to characterize him so. Care to give us more information?
This is my message to my fellow high school journalism students: If you can’t handle listening to someone who challenges your beliefs, you don’t deserve to study journalism. It’s that simple. Walk out if you aren’t willing to listen. That’s fine. It’s a free country. But don’t act as if you’ve been “bullied” because someone called you out on your bigoted ideas.
My best friend was at the conference. I only wish I could have been there.
“Oh Danny Girl’s” bitchy little queen tirade was not about being GAY or BULLING. It was about being an Atheist and using the gay and bulling issue to take pot shots at Christianity by Bulling teens. I’m gay and as a Christian and I certainly hate that the majority of what calls itself Christianity misuses and misinterprets the 6 or so scriptures in the Bible attributing them to homosexuality when in fact they speak about pagan idol worship. Frankly I’m surprised that Wayne wrote this article and ignored that point of view since he personal knows of authors like Dr. Jerry Stevenson who is gay and a theologian who explains those mistakes in interpretations in his book. I’m left to assume that as an atheist, Wayne went for the drama of “Those horrible Christians” then really presenting an objective article on bad behavior by a Raging little Queen. Danny’s apology was just political correctness. His comments about the bibles content is based on hearsay rather than personal study and knowledge, but then again most of the criticism of the Bible is based on second or third hand knowledge. Its just ingenuous to condemn that which you have no personal knowledge of. As a gay man, a Christian and a 7 year Bible college/Seminary student, I hate when bias on both sides of the aisle take presidency over good journalism and good exegetical(bible Study)truth! Shame on you Wayne. I’ll continue to read your site and follow your organization, but I’m disappointed in you as a man of supposed integrity and intelligence. This article supported neither of those attributes. In the future do your homework before you trash our(Bible believers) Biblical theology and place yourself in the company of Raging little queens like Danny. Emotionally explosive gay men like Danny contribute to the stereotypical images of of our gay community. Those stereotypes nullify the legitimacy of our points of view and causes. Danny did more to isolate and alienate then he did to legitimize and give credibility to our fight for equality. So the angry little atheist got to “Grandstand”, and got his sucker punch in at God, the Bible and Christianity. Well good for him. but bad for us(the LGBT community).
Kevin, actually I think you’ve got it backwards. It was about how the Bible is used to bully. But luckily for the anti-gay Christians you’re there to help them spread the lie.
Kevin, considering you were supposedly complaining about Dan Savage’s behaviour being stereotypical in some way–your post seemed really homophobic.
Kevin, I’m going to have to deconstruct your comment line by line to help commenters who are skimming understand how dumb it is:
1. “Bullying” has a “Y” in it.
2. Dan Savage has never claimed to be an atheist, to my knowledge.
3. Wayne didn’t write this article. You might have discovered a clue as to that truth by reading the author’s name at the top.
4. Wayne’s not atheist. He’s Jewish.
5. Dan obviously knows the Bible better than you do, Kevin. If you had a sense of it at all, you’d understand that what Dan said was true. Have you ever READ the book of Jude? I’m an atheist, and I can almost recite it to you. I doubt you can. That’s the book he was talking about.
6. I understand that you’re gay. That much is obvious. If you think we’re supposed to be impressed that you’re a 7 year seminary student, you must not be aware of how many C students make it through seminary. I don’t know whether you go to Duke Divinity or some clown college. Unimpressive. If you went to Duke Divinity, though, you’d know that Dan was pretty spot on, so I’m going with “clown college.”
7. You said this: “As a gay man, a Christian and a 7 year Bible college/Seminary student, I hate when bias on both sides of the aisle take presidency”
Precedence, dude. Not “presidency.” Precedence.
8. You continued your statement: “and good exegetical(bible Study)truth!”
Yes, we don’t need parentheses to understand the word “exegetical.” I understand that that’s the only Big Word that most clown college seminary students know. Really, there are lots of big words out there. You should learn to spell them!
9. Your childish rant continued: “This article supported neither of those attributes. In the future do your homework before you trash our(Bible believers) Biblical theology and place yourself in the company of Raging little queens like Danny.”
Dan Savage has never, to my knowledge, gone by “Danny,” and I don’t know why it makes you feel smarter to call him that. Maybe you are in your 7th year in a two year seminary program? In that case, I’d understand your feelings of not being good enough…
10. You continue: “Emotionally explosive gay men like Danny contribute to the stereotypical images of of our gay community.”
Your worries about stereotypes show us and the world your own self hatred. That’s sad and pathetic.
11. And more of your bitching: “Danny did more to isolate and alienate then he did to legitimize and give credibility to our fight for equality.”
Oh, but the majority of that 2800-full auditorium cheered him. That’s the future of America. Not you.
And finally…
12. ” Well good for him. but bad for us(the LGBT community).”
Oh dear god. You are not part of my community. And I say that as a writer who has close, close ties with many, many wonderful gay Christians. Please do not purport to speak for “the community” when it is obvious that if you are indeed a homosexual, you are eaten up with more self-hatred than one could possibly shake a stick at. While you’re busy self-flagellating, we’ll be over here (all of us, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, non-believing, atheist, everything else, but all LGBT) fighting for our common dignity and equality. And I have a feeling at the end of the day, you’ll still be bitching.
do not see why any one with any sense would listen to this nut case. He is only trying to justify his own life style and SELF LOATHING. People just don’t see how he is working through a crack to get at children because a liberal politically correct system that can be bullied, wormed its way into our school system. Wake up America they want your children so they can be indoctrinated in thinking that way of living is normal.The monkeys are running the zoo.
Satan and his servants will NOT appear to the majority of the world or “Church” as angels of darkness, but they will appear as angels of light, inasmuch as they will tell the people what they want to hear.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”
“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds.”
Ooh, look, a troll came by to spout incoherent nonsense. Not once, but twice.
Hey, Scarlet: your description of Satan and his servants could just as easily apply to Porno Pete and Hocus Pocus with the Family. They will appear as “angels of light, inasmuch as they will tell people what they want to hear” and they “disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.” Exactly who has turned “aside to myths?”
Look in the Mirror Scarlet.
Frankly Scarlet I don’t give a damn.
Hey Priya Lynn, I was waiting for someone to say something like that soon as I read the name Scarlett, although without my specs I thought it said will scarlett, you know, Robin Hood’s Merry Man who was anything from a rogue soldier, a king’s man turned rebel, to a brightly dressed minstrel according to whichever version takes your fancy.
Scarlett, sir/madam, if you’re still around, how much of a Christian are you?
Would you go the extra mile, or turn the other cheek. Do you visit old people to ease their loneliness? Or run errands for the sick and disabled? Do you visit prisoners? Hoe many cups of cold water have you given to passing tramps?
Or do you sit on your high horse pontificating about
how gays and liberals are going to destroy the planet?
LOL, Jessica, that one was begging to be said, I was surprised no one had until I did.
[...] my commentary on this whole Dan Savage non-controversy, click here. Tags: Ben Shapiro, bullying, celebrities, Dan Savage, dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb, gay teens, omg, [...]
Scarlet,
At the end of the long struggle, your feelings of devastation after losing New York State to same sex marriage must have been nearly unbearable as you exclaimed, “I’ll find some way to get this reversed. After all, tomorrow is another day.”
. The bible is the truth and the reason some Gay dont like it. it makes you look at yourself how you really are. and you cant stand that. we were all born in sin and Christ will always be the only way are sould will make it to heaven. so what i you gain gay marriage what about eternity and your souls ?
So how many slaves do you own lydia?
Scarlet? Satan & demons appearing as ‘angels of light’? Tellingpeople what they want to hear? Sounds like you’re talking about Satan taking on the guise of an anti-gay bigoted Southern Baptist preacher tickling the ears of churchgoers like YOU. You are not enduring sound doctrine. It’s you & your fellow xtians who turn aside to myths. We know you by ‘your fruits’: hatred, bigotry, & intolerance to name a few. As Satan disguises himself as a Southern Baptist preacher it’s no surprise that you ‘servants of righteousness’ are revealed by your deeds.
I have a 14 foot V-haul aluminum fishing boat. I’m planning to buy a trolling motor for it, but should I get a 36″ or 42″ shaft? I’m looking at a Minn Kota trolling motor. Possibly a 40 to 55 lb trust model.
All I have to say is way to go dan savage! Amen!
I’ve seen the video of the students walking out and read multiple articles discussing Savage’s behavior, as well as the behavior of the student’s, and I have to say I’m disappointed. Whether it was intentional or not, both Dan Savage and the author for agreeing and fighting his case seem to have used unfortunate word choices that do seem degrading. Or put more blunting, they basically said that the people who believed in the bible were stupid. Obviously, not all of the bible, particularly the old testament, is a very good thing to base your life and behavior on. I am not Christian but I can understand why these people walked out. It does seem insulting, and if a normal teacher or someone you looked up to started swearing will they were teaching, or taking shots at your faith, I’m sure you would not appreciate it. What I don’t understand is how someone, who obviously is against bullying, doesn’t understand how hurtful his words came across as. There’s no reason to speak like he did; he could certainly have gotten the point across differently. We all have the right to free speech in this country, and he’s certainly using it. But that doesn’t mean that people have to listen, and they shouldn’t be judged if they chose not to listen to edgey material.
[...] Evan mentioned last week, Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage Discrimination challenged Dan [...]