Over the past week or so, I and several of my friends have been in situations where we’ve been confronted by Christian protesters with big, colorful signs explaining which groups of people are going to burn in hell for all eternity. It’s a familiar sight for most people, as the protesting folk don’t just show up at gay events. Indeed, I’ve seen them at regular run of the mill neighborhood parties and music festivals as well. Sitting on the balcony last night, we were talking about people’s various reactions to those people; some people simply ignore them, some have a bit of fun with them and mess with their heads [that's where I fall if I have time], some try to engage them in legitimate debate and others have a tendency to start screaming matches with them. That last one tends to be a futile activity, but I understand where the anger comes from for some people.
The last several weeks have brought evidence of something I’ve been predicting ever since I started paying attention to politics, namely that as support for LGBT equality becomes more and more the mainstream position, anti-gay conservatives will become more and more extreme in their rhetoric. Several pastors have been caught on tape advocating for gays to be killed, and a young child, obviously indoctrinated by his elders, is on camera singing about gay people going to hell. This kind of stuff has been bubbling just under the surface for a long time, obviously, but wingnuts are starting to feel cornered, and they’re lashing out.*
Often when audio or video of genocidal or just generally hateful messages surfaces, we writers provide contact info for the churches and/or individuals involved, so that people can express their views and push back against the hatred. Now, you all know that I am one of the last people who is going to preach at you about “civility.” I think pleas for “civility” are distractions offered up by people who either have no arguments of their own, or who have some sort of Pollyanna idea that, with the right tender-loving care, wingnuts will suddenly want to build bridges with us. When one understands that wingnuts simply do not live according to facts as they exist in the real world, that they are working out of a fantasy playbook which renders them unable to argue on human, civil terms, one realizes that striving too hard for “civility” is a waste of time. Sometimes you just have to, loudly and rudely, tell the truth. That being said, we have to remember that our opponents are professional victims, if nothing else, and will be the first to cry “he hit me!” to distract from the actual issues at hand.
It’s being reported that the pastor of the church where the kid sang the hateful little song about gays going to hell has received death threats and has left town with his family without telling anybody where they went, and that church members are watching over the church to protect against threats. While it is often the case that, when wingnuts claim that they’ve gotten death threats, they’re embellishing, exaggerating or simply making things up, we really don’t know if this pastor, Jeff Sangl, and his church have been threatened. If they have, then whatever gays or gay-supportive people who are behind it are morons. First of all, that kind of behavior isn’t acceptable under any circumstance, but even beyond that, we are the ones with the moral high ground here. (!!!) If a pastor tells his church on a regular basis that gays are evil hellbound heathens, then it becomes public and all of a sudden the church gets flooded with profane, grammar-free messages and a few death threats, it simply confirms their weird beliefs about us. I’m quite sure this church has also received many, many thoughtful, critical messages, but those aren’t the ones that make the news.
I suppose my point here is just to issue a reminder to all LGBT people and our allies, to simply remember that we are the ones on the side of good; we are the ones on the side of fairness, love and equality; we are the ones on the side of science; we are the ones on the side of reality. It’s understandable (but not excusable, of course) that wingnuts are lashing out, calling for our deaths and the like. They are defending a house built on sand. Literally nothing they believe about us is true, and nothing they believe can be proven! But they cling to that worldview, because it makes them feel safe in a world they don’t understand. We don’t have that problem, now do we? So, no need to lash out and stoop down to their level.
As I said, who knows the veracity of this church and pastor’s claims? Far too many of them have cried wolf in the past. But they might be true. If so, our community is better than that. Take it to heart.
*Of course, in reality, they’re not cornered at all. Their constitutional rights are not threatened in any way. They simply have to deal with the reality of living in a secular, Western society where not everybody thinks like they do, and learn that they don’t have the right to lord their religious beliefs over the rest of the population. They do not like this idea, not one bit. So, they feel cornered.










“we really don’t know if this pastor, Jeff Sangl, and his church have been threatened.” Actually, Evan, we kinda DO know.
The local sheriff told fox news that there were no reported death threats. Not one. Not one.
FOX NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/31/indiana-pastor-reportedly-receives-death-threats-after-anti-gay-hymn-video/?test=latestnews
But I agree with you 100%. This is one case where we only lose if we descend to their level.
Oh Jesus. So they ARE lying. God.
The point stands, though. I know that this happens, often, and it goes back to my analogy to people’s reactions to street preachers. I see it in comments sections. You’ll have normal, pissed off comments, and then you’ll have those that just go WAY over the line and it’s like “um, I expect that from wingnuts? But I expect better from my people.”
You should call the criminal justice authorities in that church’s municipality and ask first 1) If that church has been receiving the threats it alleges receiving, would you be able to tell me if any police reports have been filed about those threats? They have to answer either yes or no. If they say yes, ask if any police reports have been filed. NOM believes that homos are going to hell — and every judge who has ever been asked to rule on whether their allegations of threats from their gay victims are credible has said that there is no merit to the allegations.
I certainly do not want to take away from the central point which is extremely valid but the death threats were smoke and mirrors (big shock huh?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/121829800
I don’t see an equivalency between religious reich wing gay-bashers going ballistic, and their victims going ballistic in response to the gay-bashing. Coming out, and asking for equality, are victim-free actions, whereas gay-bashing is not. You never know when the person you are maligning for an angry comment has recently been beaten in the streets to within an inch of their life by gay-bashing bigots. Obviously, a restrained approach is viewed as more dignified and productive with the rest of society, but, at the same time, I think expressing that one is angry and that the anger is justified can be helpful too. I say that because, this scenario is one of the political gay basher’s greatest hits: A gay rights supporter says, in a calm voice; “Sexual minority students must be protected in the schools.” And then the political gay-basher says “You sound angry” as if a justified anger were some kind of indictment, and as if that were addressing the actual issue. It is not out of place sometimes to begin by saying “I am very angry about . . . “
Of course not. If you read what I said, I actually specifically said that “civility” is a stupid goal. For the most part, it’s b******t.
HOWEVER, there is also strategy involved. It bothers me a bit when commenters on gay blogs start to sound like Freepers who just happen to have a better grasp on reality. It’s not helpful.
@Lynus, yeah, I was going off the Think Progress link which had reports of death threats. Of course, as I said in the piece, I was skeptical at the outset.
I’ll throw together an update later, clarifying that the death threats totally didn’t happen.
I did read the post. You had said that sometimes, telling the truth “loudly and rudely” is called for — and I agree with you — but I think that additionally, “I am very angry about . . . ” not stated in an angry tone is even more effective. That’s what I meant to say.
Oh, there’s nothing wrong with anger. It’s all in how it’s delivered.
Evan is correct. Not only do threats (real ones, not made up ones) distract from the issue, they erode our position in the public mind. That said, I wish these b******s would just pull a Jim Jones already and head off-planet for parts unknown.
I should also mention that death threats (again, real ones, not imaginary ones) are also illegal and are not a legitimate form of free speech.
I never threaten physical harm, but I do yell sometimes. Sometimes I really need to.
I disagree about your take on “civility.” Yes, there are situations where we have all gotten angry, but I think civility is a worthwhile, valuable standard that should not be abandoned unless we have no other choice, such as during a heated debate.
Even the best arguments are often lost when they are laced with vitriol and/or profanity. It turns people off, including me. People often judge based upon the appearance and demeanor of the people making the arguments. This might not be how it should be, but most people don’t live in New York or Los Angeles.
Look at how bad the phony “pastors” of the last couple of months have looked. We’ve heard from one that says fathers should beat up their gay sons, that we should be put behind an electric fence, another who says government should kill us.
The shrillness and acrimony that characterizes the religious right has ruined them. Look at Westboro Baptist Church. Their lack of civility has done more to help the LGBT cause than many of the things we have done ourselves. They have turned people off.
In the media, presentation is crucial. In fact, it’s incredibly valuable even in those cases when your opponents do shout and yell. I saw this on Piers Morgan last month. The new president of HRC, Chad Griffin, was debating Bill Donohue from the Catholic League on same-sex marriage.
Donohue shouted and screamed during the entire segment. His arguments were almost irrelevant. He looked like such a ranting, unhinged lunatic that Griffin won the debate without even having to say much. Griffin remained calm and the contrast said it all. It was almost as if words weren’t needed.
I know this is America 2012, when many of these values have been abandoned. People don’t seem to mind being crass, profane, mean and loud, but I believe that civility of discourse is still a high value. Being a gentleman, or a lady, still matters. Manners, good behavior and appropriate speech still go a long way, at least with me and those who I know.
Wonderful post. God bless you and our just cause! I was at a Prop. 8 rally in 2008. Suddenly, a group of anti-gay “church” members invaded our space with signs and chants. We did not move so they congregated next to us. A “minister” took out a megaphone and began “preaching.” He screamed that “gay people are miserable people.” And “they want to get your children.” Etc. Some people yelled back at him. At one point, the police were called and he claimed that one of us slapped him in the face! No one had touched him! The police made no arrests and left. My point is that radical, pro-bullying, anti-gay activists will do and say ANYTHING to win. We must maintain the moral highground. And with such dishonest opponents, it’s not difficult for us to maintain it.
@Christopher, I think we might be working off two different notions of “civility.” I’m talking about unabashed truth-telling. Many on the Religious Right see it as “uncivil” and “angry” when we point out, calmly and rationally, that they are contributing to the suicides of gay kids. But they are. Period. There is no rational debate to be had here, especially since, as I said in the post, they’re not dealing from a place of honesty or integrity. Therefore we shouldn’t treat them as if they are. We shouldn’t pretend there are two sides to every story when there clearly aren’t. So if it’s “uncivil” for me to say “these people are clearly insane, and they’re hurting America,” and if I say it on television or in print, so be it. That’s the kind of thing i’m talking about.
@Evan, ok I see your point. I do not think that saying “these people are clearly insane,” etc., is uncivil. I do not think we have to be “nice” to them.
We can all become our ‘enemy’ if our focus is on the enemy. The goal is truth, love and justice that transforms all of us. Appreciate you are given to something beyond the defeat of your opponents.
As miss Manners would remind everyone, politeness is NEVER a bad a idea.
Back in the days when I was working iwth crminals, several of my colleagues asked why I was so polite to all of my cri minal clients. I used to say that everyone, even murderers, are entitled to courtesy.
Being respectful does not mean being a doormat.
If you have to destroy someone, it’s best to destroy them with a smile. Drives ‘em nuts. I agree with Evan, however, that we must never be afraid to tell it like it is.
#19: “If you have to destroy someone, it’s best to destroy them with a smile.”
That seems to be Maggie Gallagher’s strategy. Her personal motto is surely, “Persecution with a warm friendly smile.”
In my thinking, the extreme right wing is becoming crazy. Some authors had labeled the religious right as “christofascism”. They became powerfull thanks to George W. Bush, who opened them the doors to the public arena, but Obama couldn´t close those doors. Twelve long years of hate. But increasingly, the american people is tired of this bigotry, and is ready to vote against it this year. That is why homophobes are in panic.
@Richard, but does Maggie Gallagher really “smile?” It’s always seemed more of a smug, self-conscious smirk to me.
Indeed, show me a video of Maggie Gallagher looking happy or self-confident and I’ll…well, I’ll respect her more. As it is, I believe that she is a horribly depressed, sad woman. I would hope that she’d get help.
I am bookmarking your blog. So happy I came across it. Well written. Thank you!!! ❤❤
@Evan, despite what may be her motto, Maggie demonstrates that it’s very difficult to fake a genuine smile. Genuine smiles involve some involuntary muscles, and many people can detect the fakers.
I got in kind of heated debate with someone who felt we (the gays) needed to condemn a death threat. I’m sorry, I don’t feel that need.
For one, I don’t have to condemn or apologize for another person’s actions just because I share a sexual orientation with them. People are individuals and they can take responsibility for their ill-chosen actions, like violence or death threats.
And for another, and a bigger point: the Christian Taliban make these stories up all the time. As such, I’ll reserve my words and condemnation of death threats and violence for when there is actually an arrest and a conviction on such an accusation. They have cried “Wolf!” far too many times for the LGBT community to take seriously every claim of Christian victimhood.
The FBI hate crimes statistics make it very clear who is getting the Lion’s share of the bullying, violence and hurt in the dispute between “Christians” and gays.
I might be wrong, but I am guessing that Maggie Gallagher has a bad marriage. It kills her to think that the gays might actually have better relationships than she has. She needs a group to look down upon to avoid acknowledging that she’s really at the bottom of the barrel. She can’t correct her own relationship, so she makes herself an authority on marriage. Sad.