The American Right has a certain love/utter contempt relationship with the military, specifically as it pertains to our troops and veterans. On a meta scale, it tends to be conservatives who utter useless platitudes about supporting our troops, and then go into the voting booth and pull the lever for Republicans who will only provide our troops the things they need if a defense contractor is getting paid off in the process, and who will vote to cut benefits and medical care for veterans at every turn. The problem of suicide among our troops and veterans is huge, and it largely has to do with something called PTSD. Google it if you’re not familiar. There are other factors involved, but any sane person knows for damn sure that it doesn’t have a thing to do with gays serving in the military openly. Buster Wilson of the American Family Association hate group cynically and stupidly wonders if it does, though. Here’s his reaction to the news that suicide among active duty troops is on the upswing:
Look, we understand that you hate gay people over at the American Family Association, Buster. The thinly veiled contempt you’re showing for the troops, as if they’re pansy pawns in your culture war games, eaten up by the same bizarre, weak-assed Fear of the Gay that you are, makes me sick to my stomach.
I swear these people live in some 1950s version of America that never really existed.
What an ignoramus!
I’d bet a paycheck that any increase in sexual assaults is between the male/female contingent of the military. Are the increased suicides among gay service members or are the str8 service members so burdened by the fact that there are now confirmed gay service members in their showers that they are offing themselves ’cause they are so afraid? Just asking the question!
Listen, Evan. First of all, I’m sorry for turning your stomach. The thought that the men and women of the United States military that give of their lives and their families sacrifice for them to go and serve US with their lives, the thought that THEY would feel that life is no longer worthy of living, is what turns my stomach. THANK YOU FOR EDITING MY COMMENTS AND REMOVING MY AGREEMENT WITH YOU that PTSD is the first and MAJOR cause of suicide among the troops! Your DISHONEST presentation of my comments, by leaving those remarks out, are sloppy, distasteful and hateful in and itself. YOU are the hater. You hate me and my organization BY NAME. Whereas I hate NO ONE. I do hate the GAY AGENDA AND LIFESTYLE for what it does to good people! Even the CDC reflects the facts about how dangerous the gay lifestyle is. I hate that. I hate NO ONE. READERS OF THIS STUFF: If he will edit my video and lie about my presentation, what else will he lie about? That I hate gays, maybe???
Buster, dear.
Perhaps you would be so good as to explain what the gay agenda and lifestyle are, followed with an explanation of what it does to good people?
Could you perhaps also explain what the CDC says? Becuase I’m pretty sure hey don’t blame the “lifestyle”. I can assure you that I and just about everyone I know who is gay would disagree with you about how unhealthy we are.
Nice try Buster…
Gay people have higher suicide rates because we tend to be exposed more often to things that make people more likely to be suicidal.
Like, for example, you.
I notice that the phrase “gay lifestyle” seems to mean “any lifestyle lived by a gay person; no actual difference from lifestyle of any given heterosexual person required” and “gay agenda” means “treating gay people like people.”
I’ll focus on the first one; if what defines a “gay lifestyle” is not the lifestyle but the person, than it is, in fact, not the lifestyle but the person that you hate.
The way you talk about treating actual people while playing up how awesome those people are with pretty words but no actual respect… and then hatred for some of those SAME PEOPLE. That’s not okay.
Buster, if you didn’t hate gays you wouldn’t be lying about them and trying to defame them. You’re not fooling anyone.
Priya Lynn, in what way am I lying about them? I’ve told no lies that you can document.
And what’s this nonsense about parsing the term, “gay lifestyle”? Do you want me to delineate what’s unnatural and unhealthy about it? The “lifestyle”, which would include the sexual conduct that makes the definition of “gay” be applied to someone, right? I’d rather not, but if you need me to, in order to clarify my remarks, I shall be happy to. I DO NOT HATE GAY P E O P L E. It IS INDEED possible to hate what someone does without hating the person. To deny that possibility is a denial of reality.
It is also very interesting to me how folks who believe like this author does, are either unwilling or unable to have an intellectually honest discussion about the facts (which I would love to do!!), but rather can seem to nothing more than call me names, belittle my character and dismiss me as a person. And WE are the ones who are intolerant and hate? Really?
Buster, I don’t quite get you. Are you saying that the fact that SOME of the “the men and women of the United States military that give of their lives” are gay is making the rest of them feel that life is not worthy of living? If so, how so?
One point:
When you are wanting to donate blood, you are asked, last time we gave here at work, three times(!) if you have ever had sexual with a member of the same sex. IF you have, you cannot donate blood, because it is a dangerous lifestyle! That’s not those nasty right wing nuts, no, that’s the requirements in regard to the national blood supply. I’m sorry. I know that offends, but you all asked.
Just don’t feed the troll. He gets off on this
Buster, I didn’t make the video. Right Wing Watch did. I however was listening to your program yesterday and heard the comments you made.
Your word about PTSD are HOLLOW when you have the bald, ignorant audacity to suggest that DADT repeal may be part of the culprit.
Also, you need to check yourself when it comes to your ignorant remarks about the “gay lifestyle” and “loving people while hating what they do.” Your audience is completely reality-challenged and believes that the earth was created 5,000 years ago, as your version of God magically snapped his fingers and created a fairyland where humans rode dinosaurs around while being married to only one person of the opposite sex. My readers believe in science and reality. We know that you and yours at the AFA are completely unwilling to consider factual knowledge that conflicts with your worldview, but mine aren’t.
That said, I have a veteran next to me who is pretty pissed off and insulted by your ignorant words, a veteran who actually served 47 months instead of spouting useless platitudes about how much he “supports the troops.” Look for his comment shortly.
Oh, and your crap about the blood ban is just more ignorance. Scientists (not the kind at the Discovery Institute, Buster, REAL scientists) pretty much concur that that ban is outdated.
See what I mean.
Thanks for verifying my point!
Oh, and Buster, one more thing:
I hate the way your worldview causes gay kids to commit suicide. Really hate it. It’s a large part of why I do what I do.
I’m not going to say it outright, but could it be that the gay lifestyle monster eats babies and causes global warming? I’m just asking the question.
Evan, no matter how nastily you speak ill of me, you cannot assign to me hatred for the military or hollowness when it comes to my support. You tell you vet friend that he has no greater ally than we here at AFA, and we can prove that in many ways.
You sir, with your descriptions of our audience (2.3 million and counting at this point) as ignorant and unscientific, and your hateful remarks about God, and stupid remarks about us believing in humans riding dino’s, well, gee, where does the intellectually honest begin? And what’s so weird about being married to one person of the opposite sex? IF you are now saying that’s the minority, unscientific, intellectually dishonest view of life, then, what can one say. It’s hard to “discuss” with such foolery. As I said, instead of talking about the facts, all you guys can do is call us names and insult us. WHY IS IT that your brand of hatred isn’t hatred? Why are we the haters when I’ve called you no names, but you haven’t ceased from calling us names over and over? When you want me to get straight about what the “gay lifestyle”is, I’d love you for you to get some sense about what “hating” someone is.
I don’t hate you or anyone else. You can’t assign that to me no matter how much you try.
Oh, so see, you are now stating that I cause gay kids to kill themselves. I’ll go to my blog and do a story there now about how, “The Homosexual blogger who claims the Biblical Worldview Kills kids”. You Bible hater. You hater of Christians. What’s wrong with you?
See, that kind of language does NO ONE any good. Why can’t we have a serious, honest, civil discussion? I’m willing if you are.
Buster, I didn’t say there was something WRONG with a man being married to one woman, I said there was something wrong with your belief that that’s how marriage started. Don’t make me pull Bible verses out.
Next time read my comments more slowly.
Also, I’d encourage you to read some stories about gay teen suicide and where it comes from before you write something on your blog about it. I, of course, did not say that you, personally, cause gay kids to commit suicide (another reading comprehension failure on your part), I said that your worldview causes it. And yes, telling kids that they’re going to hell for who they are, for something they’ve known about themselves since they were young, vilifying those kids on the radio every day, causes a kind of depression in those young people that is well-documented. Indeed, many of my readers have experienced that sort of depression as teens and young adults, and guess what else, Buster? So did I. It wasn’t my parents’ fault — they’re not hatemongers — but seeds planted from one of the churches we attended, combined with the hateful youth group leaders from another church (you’d call them “pro-family” people) led me to depression and self-hatred that I certainly would never wish on you or anyone you know. But it was absolutely caused by the worldview which you and the rest of the AFA holds.
I listened to a teenage girl break down in a public forum the other day because of the hateful messages preached by her fundamentalist Pentecostal father, who doesn’t know his daughter is a lesbian. I listened to her crying, desperately happy to be around a group of real adults who supported her as she was made, not as they wished her to be based on their medieval, bigoted notions of sexuality. Until your side does something that exhibits moral authority, we’ll just safely say the LGBT community and our allies have it.
That said, I don’t hate you, Buster. Don’t mistake mockery for hate.
Buster, the expressions “Biblical Worldview” and “gay lifestyle” are both equally vague and elastic, and therefore, for all practical purposes, meaningless. And there’s certainly nothing in the Bible about gays in the military.
The restrictions on donation of blood, whatever one may think about them, are irrelevant to the present discussion. Why can’t you just admit that what you said about the abolition of DADT was a pretty bloody stupid thing to say, and that you regret saying it?
“I said there was something wrong with your belief that that’s how marriage started.”
Absolutely how marriage started. One man, one woman.
“I said that your worldview causes it.”
My worldview about “sin” of ALL kinds is the Biblical worldview. So to be “comprehensive”, are you saying that the Biblical worldview causes teen gay suicide?
“a kind of depression in those young people…”
That breaks my heart! I don’t want anyone to think they are unworthy or invaluable. BUT you cannot take what God has declared about the fallen human condition and say because it makes me feel bad about myself that it’s wrong and immoral! And this is where you and I will never agree, I realize that. I believe the Bible and what God has said. He makes it clear that homosexuality is sinful, an abomination to Him, actually. And yet, Jesus came to suffer and die on this earth to pay for ALL of our sins. One person may be sinning as a homosexual, another as a liar, another simply as a member of the fallen human race. It’s not our “lifestyles” perse that make us sinful, it’s because we are a part of the fallen human race. All of us. A homosexual’s need for redemption is NO GREATER than my need for redemption as a hetero. That’s the gospel story. And if that makes you feel depressed with self hatred, I’m sorry. But I felt the same depression and self loathing when I was brought to know Christ’s love for me, just as I am. But to us ALL, Jesus says, “Go and sin no more”. But I realize the bone of contention with us will always be that you do not see homosexuality as a sin. That’s going to always be our difference. I see what God says in His Word as Truth, you do not. I understand that. BUT, because I accept what the Bible says, doesn’t automatically make me HATE you or anyone. That
s a false premise for your logic to start from.
Keep on thinkin’ your hands are clean, Buster.
I’m sure it helps you sleep at night.
And no, that’s not how marriage started. I promise. Check out your local library and read up. Even Tupelo has books. I know it for a fact.
William, I won’t say I regret what I said because I don’t. I don’t see what I said as a “bloody stupid thing to say” because I was commenting on the story as a whole. The story stated that along with suicides, that there was a dramatic increase, OF LATE, in sexual assault. There are many studies that show homosexuality can be the cause of instigator of sexual assault (NOT the only, of course!) but one such instigator. SO, I mused, could the now OPEN and ENCOURAGED display of homosexuality within the military ranks have anything to do with that. We have several sources within the military that are alluding to the fact that it is! So, was what I said a “bloody stupid thing to say?” Nope. I don’t think so.
Buster said “Priya Lynn, in what way am I lying about them? I’ve told no lies that you can document.”.
You’re lies are obvious and a prime example is in your very next comment. You falsely claim that if a person has same sex sex that is a “gay lifestyle” which is unhealthy. Gayness in a monogamous same sex relationship is no more unhealthy than opposite sex sex in a monogamous relationship. You are lying when you say there is a “gay lifestyle” and that it is unhealthy.
Buster said “I DO NOT HATE GAY P E O P L E. It IS INDEED possible to hate what someone does without hating the person.”.
Bullsh*t. People are not divorced from their actions and desires. Who we are as people is directly connected to our actions and desires. The gender a person is attracted to is a core aspect of a person’s being. When you hate a person’s same sex attraction you hate a fundamental aspect of who that person is. You cannot have it both ways, you cannot hate gayness and not hate gays, the two are inseperable. And that is another one of your lies. You DO hate gays and if you didn’t you wouldn’t be trying to deny them the same rights you have.
Who you are is not divorced from your desires and actions either Buster. I hate that you seek to demonize gays and deny them equality – I HATE YOU BUSTER. I’m not afraid to admit the truth. You are.
What on earth are you now talking about? That my hands are clean? Well, they ARE clean from causing anyone to commit suicide, or whatever else you may be claiming. You don’t want to start comparing our lives in actual service to other humans. That would cause me to sin (pride and all). No, I suspect that if we REALLY wanted to look at the facts, we’d find that what you and your community lives and pushes upon impressionable young people might have a greater impact on the struggles of young people more than anything I do.
Again, call me names. Mock (your term)my life and my beliefs. Dismiss me as a human. This is your way. But we are the haters. Ironic and odd.
I stand ready to talk with anyone who wants to have a civil discussion. I pray for you, as I would hope you would pray for me. God bless you all. I’m going home to my family now.
Buster, if you’re interested in the problem of sexual assault in the military and you really want to learn about it, here’s a link:
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/06/07/newsflash-susan-burke-talks-military-rape-with-bill-maher/
Not saying that there would be no incidences of same-sex sexual assault in the military — there are, and there always HAVE BEEN. However, often the victims are gay men and the aggressors, just like in Old Testament days, are ostensibly “straight” troops, trying to prove their manhood.
The only difference is that, now that DADT has been repealed, victims can report the crimes without having to worry about LOSING THEIR JOBS.
Have a nice day and go home to your family. Rest assured that we would never work to try to hurt or break your family up. Your career, on the other hand, is partially built on doing that to our families.
Good day.
Buster said “you cannot take what God has declared about the fallen human condition and say because it makes me feel bad about myself that it’s wrong and immoral!”.
I can take what bronze age bigots pretending to be a god declares about gays and show it is immoral because morality is “Do whatever you want, but harm no one.”. Gayness harms no one and by definition is moral. You and your “god”‘s attempt to oppress gay lives is by definition harmful and thus immoral – case closed.
Buster said “I accept what the Bible says, doesn’t automatically make me HATE you or anyone. That
s a false premise for your logic to start from.”.
It DOES automatically mean you hate gays. If your god came down and told you to rape and set fire to an innocent baby because it was moral you’d reject the idea that it is because you know that’s wrong. By the same token you can see that trying to deny people the right to do as they please when they aren’t harming others is immoral but in this case you refuse to see the error in pretending morality comes from the bronze age bigots pretending to be your god. You refuse to see the obvious because you are filled with hate. If you were’t you’d recognize that no loving and just god could ever condemn anyone for being in a loving same sex relationship.
Buster said “There are many studies that show homosexuality can be the cause of instigator of sexual assault (NOT the only, of course!) but one such instigator.”.
See, there you go with the lies again. Spare us the faux indignity at being accurately labelled as the liar you are.
Buster, I have some questions. Honestly, as respectfully as possible under the circumstance, and in search of understanding.
What is your purpose? I don’t mean that sarcastically, I truly want to know. As I see things, we are fighting for inclusion, you for exclusion. I want the same rights, dignity, privileges that are awarded me as an American citizen. No more, no less. I have no interest in anyone else’s private life because it does not affect me personally. Nor does mine affect you personally. How do I, a mild mannered 50 year old gay man who works 50-60 hours a week, pays taxes, etc, pose a threat? In fact, because of our lack of equality we actually pay MORE taxes. With less benefits.
Regardless of any religious differences, which I am sure there are many, I have no desire to change your beliefs because you have the same rights to them as I do to mine. I have no desire to be anything more than equal. That’s it. Surely you can see the logic in that desire. I couldn’t be more “beige”and blending in if I tried. So how am I a threat, worthy of such aggression and anger and fear? I am no threat. To anyone. Why are people so scared? Of what?
No, I’m sorry you are unable to reason with me. Again, Priya, you cannot assign to me hatred, no matter how hard you try. Why is it you are so determined that I hate you? I’ve never known anyone that wanted someone to hate them so much. That, alone, is unnatural.
And yes, I do believe that for a man to have anal sex with another man is unnatural (God did not design the body to function that way) and unhealthy (need I explain why? If you can’t understand why that’s an unhealthy usage of a male organ, than I give up…..on discussing this with you). I didn’t want to talk about actual homo sex, but to call me a liar because I say it’s unhealthy, well, I guess I had to.
I am saddened that you hate me, Priya. I in no way hate you at all. I am sorry that you feel that way about me, you don’t even know me.
I’ve given you nothing but reason Buster and you are running and hiding from it. The morality you base on the bronze age bigots pretending to be your god is not reasonable buster. The morality that is based on harm and culpability is the only morality that is reasonable buster and it saddens me greatly that you are blind to reason.
The reality of your hatred of gays is obvious and unavoidable. Your vigourous and repititious denial of reality will not change it.
It’s nonsense for you to say I want you to hate me, but then there’s been little but nonsense to come out of you to this point. I don’t want you to hate me, I want you to be at least indifferent to me and my gay and lesbian friends. That way you’d stop trying to hurt and defame us. Make no mistake about it Buster, that is what I want, I desperately want you to stop hating us.
And until you do I will despise you with a passion because seeking to harm innocent people is who you are.
Priya, the disconnect here is that fundamentalists who work for hate groups have been taught a radically different definition of love, which looks a lot more like hate to the casual observer, from that which is exemplified by the Golden Rule. They believe that their interpretation of the world trumps everything, and that if they end up hurting people, as they do, every single day, it’s simply a byproduct of them spreading their Fundamentalist Christian “love!”
Also, Buster: straight people have anal sex too, not all gay men have it, and lesbian sex features the lowest level of STD transmission of ALL the various kinds of sex. Indeed, regular old garden-variety hetero sex is more “dangerous.”
So…your point was?
I had a critical studies class and we looked into this topic of suicides in the military. It is a hugely underreported issue that has been going on for more than 10 years–much longer than the repeal of DADT. Why do radical conservatives hate our troops? Why do unpatriotic, troop-hating conservatives hate America?
Buster, you have cited no evidence whatever, so your musing was idle. So yes, it was a stupid thing to say. And what do you mean by “the now OPEN and ENCOURAGED display of homosexuality within the military ranks”? Are gay members of the American armed forces now being encouraged to have sex while on duty? I think not. And what are your “several sources within the military”? You haven’t told us.
DOUG! FINALLY, a civil discussion. Thank you sir for the kind and thoughtful post in the midst of mindless hatred!
Let me try to answer your questions, and again, thank you for the civility of your post.
My purpose is to speak to EVERYONE about the life giving, sin forgiving love of God for you, me and everyone. I am a BIble believing Christian and I believe that God’s Word says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Homosexuality is not “THE” sin. It’s just one of a list of many sins. 1 Corinthians 6, verses 9, 10 list this sin with several others. So, it’s not deliverance from homosexuality that I care about. It’s getting everyone to turn to Jesus and receive His deliverance from the sin condition that He loved you and me enough to die Himself for. THAT is my purpose.
Why do we focus on the homosexuality? IF all homosexuals were as you posted here about yourself, you’d probably never hear a peep out of us about things. But, truthfully, your, “live and let live” attitude that you just posted is NOT the world we live in. Homosexual activists want to take over in every department. I’m in the church world, so let me start there. We are fighting at the DC level the desires for ENDA to be enacted. Well, who wouldn’t want fairness in employment for everyone? We do. BUT that’s not what ENDA does. ENDA will demand, yes, by law, demand that my church MUST hire a homosexual on staff, if a qualified person of that orientation applies, EVEN if it violates our Biblical understanding of Scripture and what it says about that sin. Homosexual activists want my grandson taught in Kindergarten that homosexual lifestyles (hey, tell me the term you’re more comfortable with, I’ll use it) are ok and desirable. That’s not just a fight for inclusion and “dignity”. That’s wanting to indoctrinate my youngin to be gay. I could go on, but it’s the activists that are pushing your lifestyle on the rest of us who only want to be “left alone” as well.
And the marriage thing; well, I don’t know how to reach you if you can’t understand why we don’t want to change the parameters of what’s been the NORM for over 5000 years.
But again, I appreciate your kind and civil post. I can respect you, sir, though we disagree on some points. Thank you for not being a name caller.
@William, I dunno, but it’s probably whiny wingnut chaplains who don’t take their responsibility to work with ALL troops seriously, at all.
Marriage pre-dates the Adam & Eve story, Buster.
Also, your understanding of ENDA is poor. Perhaps you should read it for yourself. Churches are and will always be protected from hiring and/or performing the marriages of people they don’t want to. Are you fearmongering or are you brainwashed?
Moreover, your “youngin” can’t be “indoctrinated” into being gay. If your “youngin” could, are you willing to suggest that YOU or Bryan Fischer (heh he heh heh) or Father Don or Timmy could have been “indoctrinated” into the gayness?
Study some real science on the issue, from a real scientist, i.e. something that’s not on the NARTH website. You do realize you’re making a fool our of yourself, sir?
Well, Evan, it’s obvious to the most casual of observers that you and Priya are the most hateful of all the posters here today. I’m sorry, truly sorry that ALL you can do is refute what I say with name calling. It’s sad, but it’s ok. I understand. Truth truly does win out, every time. And Priya, I’d be amiss if I didn’t encourage you to think seriously about name calling God. “the bronze age bigots pretending to be your god” is how you’ve referred to God each time. I know you don’t believe it, but you will stand before Him one day, as will I. I plead with you to repent of your hateful attitude toward Him. He is GOD, after all.
Everyone here today, thanks for your time. But I really think everyone could learn from Doug who demonstrated that it is possible to try to connect with civility. I appreciate his effort to understand me. I’m sure he still disagrees with me, but I still respect his effort.
“But we are the haters. Ironic and odd.”
You said it, Buster.
No sir, I’m not making a fool of myself at all. Your mockery and hatefulness is surpassing anything I’ve ever heard from anyone on the evangelical side of things. ANd that crazy baptist bunch that carries the signs are NOT a part of any group we claim, so don’t lump us together with them. I’m sorry you so filled with hatred Evan. But I do appreciate your willingness to converse and thank you for the space on your site today. God Bless.
Filled with hatred? Ask anyone who knows me and you’d know that’s silly. Anyway, here comes a comment from a military person who’d like to explain a few things to you.
Buster, first I am glad that I have served 15.9 years of military service to protect and defend your right to free speech and religious choice, along with Evan’s, 300,000,000 others and lastly my own! It has come at no small price, as 4 years of my life was partially squandered in search of WMD’s, etc, but the also my proudest, as every right we have as Americans was earned by someone like myself that picked up arms in defense of this great country, and I was given a chance to serve with the finest men and women this nation has. I volunteered twice to go to Afghanistan and was rewarded by our former president with years in IRAQ! I proudly served there, receiving a letter of commendation and awards by Gen David Petraeus and a host of senior ranking DoD leaders.
One of my saddest days was loss of a dear friend of mine who lost his boyfriend in a roadside bombing not far from the base where we worked. At the time of this tragic act of cowardliness, DADT did not allow this Airman to speak with a chaplain, mental health specialist, or any military member without fear of being reported under DADT. I thank President Obama for lifting this persecution that was allowed for 8 years under the former President. The young man that lost his Boy Friend, took his own life shortly after. Not because he was gay, but because he lost the man he loved and was not not allowed to talk to anyone about it without fear of reprisal. Furthermore, I deployed with what I mostly believe were straight people. I cannot tell you how many of them suffered under divorce upon redeployment back to the states but I can tell you that 2 have since lost their lives under conditions that have been questioned as suicide. I can safely assume that PTSD was exacerbated by the loss of their wives upon returning. I can also tell you my first suicide prevention class was at the end of my deployment in 2005. After 18 months of deployment I underwent training on how to look for symptoms of PTSD and suicide prevention because the military had began to notice a rise in those numbers, not because of gays serving openly in the military but multiple deployments. The statistics of service people coming back with PTSD and Suicide coincides very closely with the statistics of service people coming back from multiple deployments. I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE MULTIPLE DEPLOYMENTS WAS MUCH MORE TRAUMATIC TO ME THAN SERVING AS A GAY MAN. I was generally well received by members of whatever unit I served in, many in fact over heard conversations with loved ones back home, saw mail that was sent to me (birthday cards; well wishes; believe-it-or-not, even a bible my boy friend’s grandmother gave to him to send to me). Those members who figured it out, accepted me as someone that would save their life or defend them as a brother-in-arms regardless of their sexual orientation.
Buster, this is what serving one’s country is all about. Trusting that the man or woman next to you will not desert you in the worst of times. Buster, I believe you have deserted the truth in the disingenuous question that you asked about suicide rates increasing, in part, to the services allowing gay men and women to serve openly. For the first time in the history of our service, gays are allowed to live the Army values. At the bare minimum integrity is now allowed. No longer does a service member have to be a silent victim. For the first time in my 15.9 years of service I can have the personal courage, to respect that I am a gay man and a warrior of our nation. As a christian myself, I challenge you to answer the following 2 questions, 1. How could anyone deny the opportunity to people to defend the country they love? 2. How could anyone ask that serviceman to do so without the integrity to be honest about who they love? if you need confirmation please look up Leonard Matlovich and others who have served our nation so proudly and educate yourself further on the sacrifices made by people like myself to protect your rights and have enough respect not to destroy our reputation as we protect your right to do so! If you had volunteered to serve your nation and make the sacrifices that I have made, I would hope that you would have the respect of your brothers-in-arms that I have for mine and not slander us in the way you have!
Harry, I offer you my deepest respect and appreciation for serving our country. I am grateful that you gave of your life in this way to protect our freedoms and our constitution. Thank you sir.
[Editor's note: This comment was just made by somebody who represents an organization that vigorously advocated against the repeal of DADT, whose website features resources and articles railing against gays and atheists in the military, and who, IN THE VIDEO CITED ABOVE, insinuated that the suicide rate in the military is rising because people like Harry are now allowed to serve openly. JUST FOR THE RECORD.]
I do still disagree with you. And I respect your differences. However, the problem I have is when differences bleed over into aggression on the rights of the side you (or I) disagree with. I have no interest in curtailing anyone’s rights for the sake of my own. I merely wish others on “the other side” shared that view.
Buster, there is a big difference between “indoctrinating” and giving all children the knowledge, especially gay children, that all types of people exist. Straight, gay, blonde, brunette, all are equally unchangeable and equally valid although I suspect you would debate that. I understand that would probably go against your beliefs. I firmly believe “we” are not interested in indoctrinating or recruiting anyone. We want to stop kids from feeling as alienated and alone and ashamed as I can assure you I and many readers here felt.
As for ENDA, we can talk extremes on both sides of the spectrum. Personally, I would be hard pressed to imagine a gay person seeking a job at a place they know is against them. But that’s me. What I do know, is that the thought of working in a company, any company, and know that they could fire me JUST for being gay is terrifying. Again, both ends of the spectrum. And a question – If you did hire a gay person, how would that impact their job performance? I would hope professionalism and decorum would apply to all employees, gay and straight, right?
God does forgive me for my sins, whatever HE determines them to be. My dialogue with Him is personal and private. It is not from Him that my anger and fear come from, nor is it from Him that I find it repeatedly directed at me.
Buster said “Thank you sir for the kind and thoughtful post in the midst of mindless hatred!”.
I assume you’re referring to me, which would be yet another time you lied. Just as it is rational, just and moral for a family to hate the murderer of their loved one, my hatred of you is rational and justified. It is natural and normal to hate those who seek to harm innocents. It is your hatred of innocent people that is irrational, unjust – mindless.
Buster said ” IF all homosexuals were as you posted here about yourself, you’d probably never hear a peep out of us about things.”.
Yet another lie. There’s no way you’d allow gays to have the same rights you do without screaming, stamping your feet and attacking them in every way you can get away with.
Buster said “Homosexual activists want to take over in every department.”.
See how you indignantly deny lying and yet overflow with them? Gays and lesbians only seek the same rights you have.
Buster said “We are fighting at the DC level the desires for ENDA to be enacted. Well, who wouldn’t want fairness in employment for everyone? We do. BUT that’s not what ENDA does. ENDA will demand, yes, by law, demand that my church MUST hire a homosexual on staff.”.
Obviously you’ve lied again. You claim on one hand you want fairness in employment and then immediately demand that you be allowed to be unfair as an employer – you’re a liar.
Buster said “Homosexual activists want my grandson taught in Kindergarten that homosexual lifestyles are ok and desirable. That’s not just a fight for inclusion and “dignity”. That’s wanting to indoctrinate my youngin to be gay.”.
You just can’t stop lying, can you? People cannot be taught to be an orientation different from what they are born with. There is no “homosexual lifestyle”, gays live diverse lives and attempts by bigots like you to characterize all those lives as promiscuous and uncommitted is more evidence of your hatred of them. The American Psycological Association says gayness is a normal healthy variant of human sexuality so once again you’ve lied. There is no curriculum to “teach kindergartners” about gays. Once in a blue moon the topic randomly comes up and there is no harm in teachers addressing it rationally and truthfully at that time. Once again, you seek to deny gays the same rights you have to not have discussion of their lives banned.
Buster said “I’m sorry, truly sorry that ALL you can do is refute what I say with name calling.”.
I’m sorry that you are afraid to deal with my point by point refutation of your arguments like an adult and instead choose to hide from them by falsely claiming “ALL” I did was call you names.
It is not name calling to call a murderer a murderer or a theif a thief. By the same token it is not name calling to call a bigot and hater like you a bigot and hater – its the truth.
Buster said “Priya, I’d be amiss if I didn’t encourage you to think seriously about name calling God. “the bronze age bigots pretending to be your god” is how you’ve referred to God each time. I know you don’t believe it, but you will stand before Him one day, as will I.”.
LOL – “amiss”. Hopelessly naive and willfully ignorant is more like it. A just and loving god that eternally tortures people for behaving exactly as he knew they would when he created them cannot exist. A god that impregnates a woman bethroted to another man and then hypocritically tells man not to committ adultery is not a god to be worshipped.
Your god does not exist, cannot exist. Just like me you will die and rot and that will be the end of you. Unlike me you will be remembered as a hate-filled deluded small minded bigot rather than a relentless seeker of justice.
Buster, I have read through this entire thread. I hope that you read my comment.
I’m not sure how many people here that post are as I am, a heterosexual black woman. But several of those who have posted are people I know personally and very well.
I am quite familiar with the commentaries of those representing the AFA.
As are just about everyone here who is answering you.
Understand this also: I was raised in a home that educated me on all forms of influential religions and taught me to not be afraid of getting to know those who are not known very well or justly.
I want to say Mr. Wilson, that what you BELIEVE to be true, and what is, is a chasm very deep and wide.
And what you DON’T know, and how you express it, has serious and unjust consequences for those you talk about.
I wouldn’t go to a non Jewish anti Semite to learn about being a Jew and the history of Jews.
I don’t think you would either.
So the equivalent, a man like you, who is not only inexperienced with many actual gay or transgendered people, what has informed you all this time are people equally unqualified.
You are, a heterosexual, Christian white male, whose closest associations are with people more like yourself than not.
In other words, it’s contempt by omission and contempt that you ARGUE with gay people over what they are and their identity.
It’s a rather cowardly dodge to assert it’s only gay people who have gay sex you have an issue with.
As if it’s having gay sex that’s the game changer where the character of gay people is concerned.
Whether you’re involved in an active sex life or not, you’d still be a heterosexual.
The same is true for gay people, and the quality of relationships they have cannot be negatively judged when you have no way of qualifying them but in the abstract.
Gay people are still treated harshly, discriminated against (as in the case of DADT) and punished whether or not a sex life WAS IN EVIDENCE.
Meaning, your assertions that it’s the gay sex that justifies the judgement IS hollow and worthless.
I’m sure there isn’t much you know about any given hetero relationship either. And considering the failure rate of so many of them, not a lot you or anyone of the AFA has been able to do about it.
And as young people feel quite justified in assaulting another child they think is gay, to the point of irreversible tragedy, the most you can do is deny you have anything to do with that.
See, men like you claim a lot of success as long as you don’t know any tragedy occurs, but when anyone tries to inform you and make you understand the very tangible and serious connection between anti gay animus and discrimination, bigotry and tragedy, you are quick to deny or acknowledge you do harm and your language a liability.
Even more so, you’ll blame the feature of being gay with that tragedy as if there is if your assumptions and ideals about gay people is rational and justified and healthy.
You don’t like to acknowledge that your ignorant beliefs, your arrogance and lack of consideration for the legitimate experience and qualities of gay people is what’s doing the harm.
And yes, prejudice and systemic bigotry and harmful policies HAVE done very bad things to gay people.
And all you seem to want to do, is deny it or think that it’s being gay that does it.
Well, that’s like telling ME, that my being a black woman is the problem in why certain life events harmed me, instead of the prejudice that preceded it.
And a white man like YOU, wouldn’t have any business lecturing ME on the merits of being gay to being black when it comes to civil rights.
But it’s been done, and it’s just another layer of offensive in how comfortable you are telling any of us in this forum that we’re the haters and how wrong we are to judge YOU.
Well, YOU being the white man that you are, never had to THINK about what your life means, any limits or wrongful judgements and harms to your life.
In other words, you’d never be able to appreciate any REAL prejudice or lack of equal rights.
But you dare think that those of us here AFFECT you at all, just by calling you out on what you say.
Wow.
Just wow.
The fact that you don’t appreciate how good you have it, is most offensive of all.
Furthermore Buster, my commanding officer and Command SGT Major from New Albany, MS were the ones that allowed sexual harassment of at least three young ladies, 2 of where under suicide watch. That commander posted a picture of himself drinking beer while on deployment orders, while he was writing love letters to lower enlisted females and offering them perks for being his “friends”, all of this while he was married. I have no similar stories of this happening by Unit commanders who were gay! I love and respect my straight, bi, gay, and asexual unit members. For me to ever assert my beliefs on them would be a disservice to their service to this nation!