Comments on: Schism on the Horizon in the Catholic Church?

By: Paul Douglas

Paul Douglas — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 06:24:20 +0000

I do not think their will be schism in the romanist church, though I would wholeheartedly celebrate its wholesale abandonment by women, LGBT and all progressive peoples. There are still plenty of rich, über-conservative patrons to fund this sick, last surviving relic of the Roman Empire and plenty of poor and uneducated, credulous people to follow it. It will not disappear, not because of some divine protection, but simply because it is too good a gig for the owners to let go of.

By: F Young

F Young — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 04:37:40 +0000

@Tom Head
“…and progress on the position of women and LGBT folks in the Church will become inevitable at that point…”

If the next pope is African, which is certainly possible given the rapid growth of the church in Africa, I would think that the catholic church would become even more homophobic and misogynist, not less. Africa is probably the most homophobic area of the world right now.

I think the church has passed the point-of-no-return now. I don’t think it can modernize itself anymore. The last two popes have made sure of that by entrenching hardline cardinals who support its rigid doctrines. Accordingly, I think the church is destined to eventually become a quaint anachronism as normal people reject its archaic doctrines.

I don’t see any way that the catholic church could open itself to gays. Maybe it could open itself to women.

By: ezam

ezam — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 04:04:51 +0000

Its archaic views on sexuality and women are but one small part of the reasons I left. It has an extensive history of genocide, anti-Semitism, slavery, eradication of indigenous culture, political meddling, war, intolerance, frauds (like the Virgin of Guadalupe and Shroud of Turin), exploitation, and not to mention all the money they got from those action. Even if they change their doctrine and welcome gays and female clergy with open arms, I’m not having communion with the RC church again.

By: Gary (NJ)

Gary (NJ) — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 03:07:19 +0000

I don’t think the next pope will be a man of color as 1 poster said. I’ve heard the power brokers in the vatican are packing the Curia and other key positions with Italians so they can get an Italian pope again when the current one no longer darkens the earth with his presence. I left the RCC about 30 years ago and joined an inclusive (women and lgbt people) Episcopal Church in 2009. It’s also an Anglo-Catholic (High church) branch of TEC. I still get all the ‘magic and mystery’ of the old liturgy and fantastic music and chant from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance without all the exclusion and bigotry and sexism. I would never return to the RCC.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 02:22:18 +0000

I was raised Methodist, became Catholic for a short time, hoping they might have the “miracle” to make me straight. They didn’t. Then I came out and kicked ALL religion out of my life once and for all.

By: John Patrick

John Patrick — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:28:58 +0000

I admire Diamaid MacCullouch very much since I read his book about the three thousand years of Christianity in which he traces the roots of this religion and the many different Christian churches that have formed and had great influence for some periods. He certainly makes clear that the current prominence of the Roman church is an accident of history.

I don’t know whether there will be a major schism or not. Many members of the church simply ignore the pronouncements of the leaders.

There are many Roman Catholics whom I admire, including members of my own family. I left 25 years ago and have been an agnostic longer than that. I have no trust of belief in any church or religion and could never return to the Roman Church or join any other church or religion, no matter how LGBT friendly they might be or become.

By: medwards

medwards — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:26:13 +0000

No, I don’t think there will be a form schism in the Catholic church. I think the USA will evolve, drift, or fragment (choose your verb) into the same relationship with the hierarchy that is seen in Western European countries. Many people will consider themselves Catholics but this will mean the church is involved in their lives only at certain stages such as baptisms, weddings and funerals. Otherwise, they won’t have a lot to do with the church. Perhaps American will always attend mass more regularly than Europeans, as churchgoing is more deeply rooted in our culture. But Americans are already turning deaf ears to pronouncements from Rome, press conferences and political campaigns by bishops, and the “trust us to know what’s best” message they hear from the pulpit. The trend which began with Humanae Vitae, is accelerating: American Catholics think for themselves and are not willing to automatically defer to or trust in the hierarchy as is past generations.

A few years ago I read an analysis of John Paul II’s pontificate, which stated that the pope didn’t realize he cannot command obedience or belief among Catholics in the manner of past centuries, that he must persuade. It seems that is more true today, and the bishops efforts to distract the church from its own abuse scandal fallout with political campaigns and Cardinal Dolan’s jolly press conferences are only accelerating the trend toward a diminished Catholic church.

By: mikenola

mikenola — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:05:26 +0000

Prognosticators of Schism and/or loss are always claiming the “end is near”, just like those that claim that Armageddon is on the way.

It is sad to say, but the toppling or splitting of the Catholic Church in any appreciable manner won’t come from within.

They may wither, their enrollment may continue to shrink and their collection plate revenues may shrink, but their coffers are full due to investments, control of businesses and banks and their oh so secretive Swill Accounts.

Their demise is decades if not centuries away.

The most that can be hoped for is that their current Emperor of Evil will pass and the next one they elect will not have his head up his own a*s and has a “wife (or husband)” on the side that he wants to make legal.

By: Mark McField

Mark McField — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 23:26:14 +0000

What the lions and beasts in the Roman arenas and Colosseum should have done in finishing of this sorry lot, 2000-1700 years ago, may just come about at the inept hands of this Teutonic t**t(a la Marlene Dietrich)and the conniving and scheming princes of his “inner circle and court”. The quotation, “When a fish starts to rot the stench begins in the head” is a pretty apt thought for the state of the Vatican(Circus Maximus) at this moment in History. If JC came back this moment in time, “they would all surly be the least of his brothers”.

By: Fr. Andrew

Fr. Andrew — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:49:09 +0000

Another schism started 15-20 years ago when the Independent Catholic movement started. Many churches came into being around 1996 (UICC, RCC, and maybe the ACC). More progressives need to check us out!! We at the UICC have stuck to the Vatican II mass. We are in the process of degenderfying our language, but the worship style should be very familiar. We have a presence in IL, WI, TN, and FL, and are looking to grow! We are wondering where all the progressives are.
Rick Phillips
National Communications Director, UICC
Outreach Coordinator, SS Cyril and Methodius Parish (Neenah, WI), UICC