And of course–we have no clue as to how many Christians are in the picture. And exactly how many Christians do you think it takes to open, run and operate the schools, hospitals, chemical dependency, family counseling, food shelves, housing, employment training, etc etc found in hundreds of cities across nation
Paul Mc
August 3, 2012 at 8:08 am -
The texts these guys choose to prioritise are those that emphasise faith rather charity. You don’t actually need to be nice to get into heaven, just to believe is sufficient, to be born again is enough. Also, what they regard as cahritable, I would question. Raising money to build a bigger mega-chruch or sending Bibles to Africa or to broadcast anti-gay propaganda are dubious means of bettering the world.
Christians are no more likely to be in helping professions than anybody else by my anecdotal experience Melinda. And I was a professing one for a couple months shy of 40 years.
@Melinda It’s a pretty good guess that most of those in the picture are fundamentalist Christians (specifically fundamentalist) since that is the base that people like Mr. Huckabee appeal to, (rather exclusively).
However, there is an inference in your post that I want to build on.
It takes a lot Christians to run all the things you mention: schools, hospitals, counseling, etc.
However VERY FEW of THOSE Christians would ever be in this picture.
There is a clear division in Christianity (as there is in other faith communities) between the “Mainstream” community of the faith and the “Fundamentalist” community of the faith.
Specifically in Christianity it is to the point where I seriously question that it is any longer the same faith.
Historic Christianity was founded on Eucharist. Even the early Protestant splits kept that centrality to a large degree. Any moderately well educated mainstream Christian knows that the Bible was put together well after the Church (s/he may or may not know that it didn’t exist in something resembling the modern form until the late 300s AD [Synod of Hippo/Council of Carthage] and that the selection of books was heavily influenced by what could be used to support the already existing Nicean Creed [from the Council of Nicea {Nice}. Yes, canons that kind of resembled the modern canon did exist after about 140, but so did dozens of other EQUALLY ACCEPTED canons that contained books that I guarantee unless you are a theologian you have never heard of.]
Historic Christianity put a premium on social justice, caring for the poor and sick and emotionally damaged. That premium has existed for many centuries. No mainstream Christian I’ve ever known actually, if you pinned them down, thought that the Bible was really “literal.”
Fundamentalist Christians on the other hand, really do. The literal truth of scripture is very important to them. They don’t really (generally) know what scripture says — and I always encourage them to ACTUALLY read, line by line, from beginning to end. That tends to end literalism quickly. Regardless, those who regard themselves as evangelicals and fundamentalists generally, even if they would not use these words, worship the Bible, just as fundamentalists of all other book based faiths do.
As a result, fundamentalist and evangelical Christians care very little about the core values of historic Christianity. The idea of genuine love, of sharing all that one has, of caring for the poor, of pacifism, of nonjudgmental interaction. Those ideas are at best given lip service and almost universally ignored. Ignored in favor of their opposites in many cases. Fundamentalists and evangelicals are in the forefront of denying medical coverage and food to children in need. They are activists to deny equality, not only to gays, but to other minorities as well. They support tax breaks for billionaires and they constantly judge others while claiming that they are just “loving” them.
It isn’t the same faith, as far as its expression is concerned.
I no longer have a horse in this race, but I truly do suggest, Melinda, if you are serious as a fundamentalist or evangelical AND you care about social justice and things like the programs you listed that you take a look, a real look, at your church’s budget – they have to give you a copy. Not only your parish, but if you have one, your denomination’s — and then prayerfully consider if that is how you want your money spent.
Many years ago a friend’s parents, who were getting along, had become involved in a megachurch near Chicago. He was upset and wanted to know more about the parish. I told him to insist they give him a copy of their budget and I’d go over it with him. He did, and we did. Fifteen million dollars. A staff of 18. Not ONE PENNY to charity. Not ONE of the programs you mentioned. No, those were left to the struggling Catholic parish nearby — and no money was given toward them by the evangelicals.
Priorities, priorities.
Perfect.
It is a great challenge.
And of course–we have no clue as to how many Christians are in the picture. And exactly how many Christians do you think it takes to open, run and operate the schools, hospitals, chemical dependency, family counseling, food shelves, housing, employment training, etc etc found in hundreds of cities across nation
The texts these guys choose to prioritise are those that emphasise faith rather charity. You don’t actually need to be nice to get into heaven, just to believe is sufficient, to be born again is enough. Also, what they regard as cahritable, I would question. Raising money to build a bigger mega-chruch or sending Bibles to Africa or to broadcast anti-gay propaganda are dubious means of bettering the world.
Zing! Perfect.
Christians are no more likely to be in helping professions than anybody else by my anecdotal experience Melinda. And I was a professing one for a couple months shy of 40 years.
@Melinda It’s a pretty good guess that most of those in the picture are fundamentalist Christians (specifically fundamentalist) since that is the base that people like Mr. Huckabee appeal to, (rather exclusively).
However, there is an inference in your post that I want to build on.
It takes a lot Christians to run all the things you mention: schools, hospitals, counseling, etc.
However VERY FEW of THOSE Christians would ever be in this picture.
There is a clear division in Christianity (as there is in other faith communities) between the “Mainstream” community of the faith and the “Fundamentalist” community of the faith.
Specifically in Christianity it is to the point where I seriously question that it is any longer the same faith.
Historic Christianity was founded on Eucharist. Even the early Protestant splits kept that centrality to a large degree. Any moderately well educated mainstream Christian knows that the Bible was put together well after the Church (s/he may or may not know that it didn’t exist in something resembling the modern form until the late 300s AD [Synod of Hippo/Council of Carthage] and that the selection of books was heavily influenced by what could be used to support the already existing Nicean Creed [from the Council of Nicea {Nice}. Yes, canons that kind of resembled the modern canon did exist after about 140, but so did dozens of other EQUALLY ACCEPTED canons that contained books that I guarantee unless you are a theologian you have never heard of.]
Historic Christianity put a premium on social justice, caring for the poor and sick and emotionally damaged. That premium has existed for many centuries. No mainstream Christian I’ve ever known actually, if you pinned them down, thought that the Bible was really “literal.”
Fundamentalist Christians on the other hand, really do. The literal truth of scripture is very important to them. They don’t really (generally) know what scripture says — and I always encourage them to ACTUALLY read, line by line, from beginning to end. That tends to end literalism quickly. Regardless, those who regard themselves as evangelicals and fundamentalists generally, even if they would not use these words, worship the Bible, just as fundamentalists of all other book based faiths do.
As a result, fundamentalist and evangelical Christians care very little about the core values of historic Christianity. The idea of genuine love, of sharing all that one has, of caring for the poor, of pacifism, of nonjudgmental interaction. Those ideas are at best given lip service and almost universally ignored. Ignored in favor of their opposites in many cases. Fundamentalists and evangelicals are in the forefront of denying medical coverage and food to children in need. They are activists to deny equality, not only to gays, but to other minorities as well. They support tax breaks for billionaires and they constantly judge others while claiming that they are just “loving” them.
It isn’t the same faith, as far as its expression is concerned.
I no longer have a horse in this race, but I truly do suggest, Melinda, if you are serious as a fundamentalist or evangelical AND you care about social justice and things like the programs you listed that you take a look, a real look, at your church’s budget – they have to give you a copy. Not only your parish, but if you have one, your denomination’s — and then prayerfully consider if that is how you want your money spent.
Many years ago a friend’s parents, who were getting along, had become involved in a megachurch near Chicago. He was upset and wanted to know more about the parish. I told him to insist they give him a copy of their budget and I’d go over it with him. He did, and we did. Fifteen million dollars. A staff of 18. Not ONE PENNY to charity. Not ONE of the programs you mentioned. No, those were left to the struggling Catholic parish nearby — and no money was given toward them by the evangelicals.
I think that speaks for itself.
Regards,
Reyn