So apparently, while I was on vacation, this happened:
Conservative radio host Dana Loesch on Tuesday blasted a caller who criticized Chick-Fil-A’s anti-gay rights stance. . .
Loesch argued – and at times spoke over – her guest until finally she declared: “Kay, I know you hate Christ but if you’re unable to prove your argument that’s on you. … You need to prove or I’m going to have to drop you because now you’re boring me. You called in and said that Christ is hateful, you’re not a Christian, and you just said you hated Christ.”
Yup, you’re reading that right: according to Loesch — who is also a political commentator specifically hired by CNN to represent the Tea Party point of view — if you disagree with Chick-fil-A and its anti-gay bigotry, you hate Jesus.
But if you just read the interview, you’re not getting the complete picture. Take the five minutes to listen to the audio below, courtesy of Equality Matters. Loesch doesn’t just blast the caller, she totally flips out:
Juvenile, judgmental, bullying, bigoted, boorish. Tea Party America, folks.
(h/t: Will Kohler over at Back2Stonewall)
Dana like the ignorant blowhard she is claims to know the bible and then fatuously asks where in the bible does Jesus support the gay community and where in the bible does Jesus advocate hate. Well, Dana, Jesus supports the gay community when he heals the centurions gay lover and calls them honourable and he preaches hate when he says one must hate their mother and father and family in order to be his diciple.
This business of hiring a TParty radio host to represent a radical bunch of self-centered bigots is ridiculous. Why not just hire a Klansman and be done with it? The airwaves are already filled with enough Limbaugh and Beck bile to satisfy that constituency twice over.
This woman and her “this is my show”? She puts the words in someone’s mouth and acts like this! Jesus doesn’t say anything about hate, but his “followers” like this woman use the words of the Bible to do hateful things, and until she can pull her head out of her a*s and realize that- infact she herself was doing it right here, got on her high horse and did and said hateful things to this caller- she should not have a place on CNN
Dana is a bully.
Dana’s not the first person I’ve heard declare all Christians to be fraudulent that disagree with CFA. This is the Christian Right version of the No True Scotsman fallacy, in which if you in any way disagree with CFA or you support gay rights in any way, you aren’t a ‘real’ Christian. Christians everywhere should be disgusted by this.
James said “Jesus doesn’t say anything about hate,”.
Wrong James.
Luke 14:26
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”.
Priya Lynn- If an anti-gay activist quotes someone out of context, I’m sure you would call them out on it. What you’re doing is no different. Jesus often used hyperbole to make his point, and if you read it in context, He is cleary saying you have to put God above everyone else, even your family. You may agree or disagree with that sentiment, but He is clearly not advocating hate.
Nice try Boo. There’s a lot of stuff in the bible for christians to be embarrased of, its no surprise they try to B.S. and say passages say something other than what they clearly say.
Matthew 10:34-35
“34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”.
LOL, there goes Jesus that “not-hater” again.
For those quoting the ‘bible’ to support Jesus advocating hate – be careful. Much scholarly work has been done to discredit these as actual words of Jesus and rather, support a specific view of early church leaders. Look at what Jesus’ life and ministry (healing the sick, disenfranchised, etc.) to understand his true motives. I don’t see any ‘hate’ in Jesus’ actions. His life was about peace and creating ‘heaven on earth’ through love, kindness, compassion and forgiveness.
Seriously – folks who use the bible and the ideology of Jesus as a means to justify their bigotry and hate, are about dividing and separating ‘them’ from ‘us’. This is not what Jesus, or any of the ancient widsom seekers were about. Try again.
Paul, let’s call a spade a spade – none of it was Jesus’s word, all of it was the words of early church leaders pretending to speak for a character called Jesus. There was NOTHING written during the alleged lifetime of the Jesus character, all of it written at a minimum of decades after his alleged life. The idea that 30-70 years after someone died with no record writers can magically remember word for word hundreds or thousands of quotes of a person is simply absurd. There are no non-biblical records of a Jesus from around the time he was alleged to have lived and yet hundreds of historians from those times recorded the most obscure and mundane of daily events. The idea that they wouldn’t have noticed someone of Jesus’s alleged renown simply isn’t believable.
It’s no coincidence that the christian “scholars” only try to discredit the words “of” Jesus they don’t like, they could just as easily make the case that anything else attributed to Jesus wasn’t said by him, including the nice stuff like “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. No surprise there that the christian “scholars” are pretty selective about which words “of” Jesus they try to disown.
I think this all raises a good question about what it means to be a Christian. As a Christian, do you follow what Jesus preached or what the God of the Bible preached? They’re extremely different things and I think that’s a big problem when having a debate involving Christian teachings. I used to read the Bible a lot and I’ve been confused about this ever since.
Ehhhh, yeah, it’s not that simple. They can’t be the same. God preaches vengeance and war against his enemies; Jesus preaches forgiveness and befriending enemies. God rejects people with differences, Jesus embraced them. Jeez, this is simple even for me, and I haven’t read the damn thing in ages. You’ll have to give a better answer than that Pavlovian response.
““34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”.
LOL, there goes Jesus that “not-hater” again.”
Once again Priya, the word you keep missing is “context.” You conveniently left out the verses that frame the ones you quoted:
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Jesus is talking about the need to put God before everything else. You may or may not agree with that sentiment, but it is clearly not advocating hatred, any more than someone who stubs their toe against a chair and says “G******n that chair!” is literally wishing the chair would be endowed with a soul and then condemned to eternity in hell.
You wouldn’t sit still for that kind of behavior from fundies, and you know it. So why engage in it yourself?
The Bible is a mythic book, full of late Bronze age and early Iron age stories and having some value as literature and as a sort of legendary history of the development of major faiths today.
It is NOT the Word of God and it is NOT the foundation of the Christian Church. While early parishes had VARIOUS books that they quoted from, very few canon were alike and no canon generally resembling the one now used by the churches existed prior to the approval by the Pope of a resolution passed in 397 AD by the Council of Carthage and originally proposed in 393 at the Synod of Hippo.
The basis of the Christian faith (I am not Christian, but I hold a degree in theology and was originally ordained as a Christian) was Eucharist. To argue otherwise, as so many – both fundamentalist Christian and atheist and even other – do – is to fly directly in the face of every shred of provable history we have.
Parts of the Eucharistic prayer have been found dating from as early as the 40s AD — and the earliest copy of something RESEMBLING the modern Bible — from the 4th century. Particularly given lifespans at the time, that difference is beyond huge.
Christianity is about Christ, “his” worship is based in Eucharist. The Bible is an addon – created to give the clergy something to “argue from.”
If anyone wants citations for any of this — contact me directly, when I include links in my posts, the posts don’t appear on the site.
Regards,
Reyn
So, blah blah going off topic blah blah mercy and forgiveness blah blah I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I! That’s your argument? Real deep stuff Frank.
Boo, the passages you quoted don’t in anyway change the meaning of those I quoted.
Obviously it is anything but “clear” that these passages are not advocating hatred and that you would make such an absurd claim is proof of your bias and unwillingness to consider logically what words mean. Like most christians you’ve pre-chosen what you want to believe about the Jesus character and under no circumstances will you accept anything the bible says contradicting that as the truth.
Hating one’s family is not inconsistent with putting the god character above all, in fact its perfectly consistent with doing so. Obviously the Jesus character was saying if your family is utterly
opposed to you putting god first you must reject and hate them and totally discard them. Jesus is saying you must be willing to be unconditionally opposed to everything your family stands for, to hate them, in order to be assured of always putting god first. There is no hyperbole there, that is exactly what the authors pretending to be Jesus meand to convey and they did so in no uncertain terms.
I’ll leave you the last word to continue denying words mean what they say, by all means, BS away.
And Frank, no one gives a damn about your bible platitudes.
Reyn–the present Christian canons obviously did not exist at the time of Jesus. But to suggest Jesus grew up without an interface with some of the Biblical material is also false.
Oooh, you burned me. I am so humbled by you, oh great, intelligent Bible-thumping troll. Or I could have been if you had bothered to debate what I actually brought up way up there in that first post.
Well if you can’t help my ignorance, you’re not very good at this, are you? You’re just giving up.
Well done? For winning this argument with little effort? Why thank you.
“It’s impossible to undertadn mercy and forgiveness without first understand sin and judgement. If there was no sin or judgement there would be no need for mercy or forgiveness.”
So your god deliberately spread violence and hatred and made-up “problems” (sin) so that he could turn around and hand out “forgivenesses” for things that he caused in the first place?
What a nasty god you worship.
Oh yes it is. 1 Peter 3:15.
That’s interesting, though. You can make claims, and yet if someone calls them into question, you don’t have to back them up, and yet we should just assume that you’re right.
Maybe you shouldn’t argue with people about your religion if you don’t want to get into uncomfortable discussions, then. Especially if you’re going to act smug about it.
Just because you don’t see the absurdity in claiming that “this god made up a whole lot of horrible s**t so that he can then “forgive” us for s**t that he made up” = GOOD doesn’t mean I don’t understand, but it does seem like you either haven’t thought things through, or you actually believe that this is good and acceptable.
Then again, you seem to have a serious problem with decency and ethics anyway, so par for the course, I guess.
Prove it.
No, Frank, you are the one making a statement of fact, therefore the onus of proof is on you.
You’re not very good at this.
Frank, that doesn’t even make sense. Do you believe in forest fairies? If not, then prove that they don’t exist. See? That’s dumb. The guy making the truth claims is the one who ponies up the evidence, that’s how it goes.
Wow. That is one of the most horrific examples of bearing false witness and failing to love I have ever heard. The caller never once said she hated, or believed Christ to be hateful. Nor did she use an expletive to describe the host, as the host did to her. If, Ms. Loesch, has indeed read the Gospels, she will clearly understand that it is not what a person puts into their mouth, but the words that spew forth from her mouth that defile her. I’m stunned.