One evening earlier this week, a friend posted on Facebook about something unusual he witnessed while attending a drag show in Maine. No, it wasn’t an outlandish wig, a pair of gravity-defying platforms, or a scandalously revealing dress on one of the drag queens. It was a bachelorette party.
Now I realize that there is a wide variety of opinions and perspectives on the issue of bachelorette parties at gay bars, and part of my reason for writing this post is that I hope you’ll share your own thoughts in the comments section. But for me, the issue is crystal clear: if you’re thinking of having your bachelorette party in a gay bar, DON’T.
I know, at first it may seem counterintuitive. After all, in addition to serving as safe spaces for LGBT people to be themselves and gather in community, gay bars very often attract hetero females who enjoy spending an evening drinking and dancing with hot men without any fear that they’ll be taken advantage of. Further, some brides-to-be may want to show support for their LGBT friends, family members, and the community at large by spending their money at LGBT-owned or allied establishments.
But please, ladies, try to see this from the perspective of a happily married gay man whose legal marriage dissolves when he leaves New England (Maine notwithstanding). Imagine that, thanks to a law paradoxically known as the “Defense of Marriage Act,” the love of your life is regarded by the federal government as a total stranger. Or, worst of all, put yourself in the shoes of a person living a state in which they’re constitutionally prohibited from marrying the person they love — a gallingly unjust fact of life for LGBT people in 31 out of the 50 states.
So while I’m sure your heart is in the right place, if you choose to have that bachelorette party at a gay bar, this is what you’re REALLY saying: “Yay! Let’s celebrate my upcoming marriage in front of a whole bunch of people who can’t legally marry the person they love!”
In my view, what you may have intended to be a thoughtful gesture — or at least a harmless one — is actually beyond tacky, and to those of us at the bar who either can’t marry or whose marriages the federal government refuses to recognize, you’ll look both staggeringly clueless and completely classless.
Let the First Wives Club meet in Gay Bars. They may grow accustomed to our ways that they set forth in their minds of Equality instead of NO STRAIGHTS in the bar.
My girlfriend not only had her bachelorette party at a gay bar all her guest were gay men and we had a blast. And none of us believed it was insensitive to the fact we can’t legally marry ourselves. For some reason this post comes across the same way when close minded people accuse gay people of shoving our “lifestyle” in their faces.
I have one comment for the wives club. You should really look at what the article is saying. We are not saying that we don’t want straights in our bars because we are perfectly find with it. All we are saying is don’t shove it in our face that you get icecream and we don’t. If you like having a place were you can go and just dance! Then be respectful or the gays bars you like to go to may go private and only cater to those who are gay, and there will be nothing you can do about it. If you want respect then earn it and this is not earn anything except strong dislike.
I think taking away from someone elses enjoyment because we dont have that particular right at the time is extremely selfish. It’s important for people to stop drawing lines between gay and straight people and we should commend anyone trying to be a part of/or support gay bars, the gay community, or their gay friends or family. I think the goal should be to understand how we’re all similar and come together instead of becoming bitter by a government that doesn’t actually represent the views of majority of Americans and taking it out on our straight allies.
Here’s a compromise. If a group wants a bachelorette party at a gay bar, then , bedised the cover/bar tab, the party must donate to the state’s group(s) championing marriage equality, and all participants must sign petitions and/or write letters to legislators in support of equality. No support, no party.
Alonzo,
I think bacholorette parties in themselves are fine. I have one question for you. when you go to a straight bar a redneck one or hip hop do sit there and make out with your partner? I don’t because I think that is rude and that would be shoving it in someones face. Homosexuality is coming mainstream but it is not quite there that why for the most part the only time you usually see the same sex partners holding hand with each other is in a gay bar or the gay part of the city if you live in a big enough city. Why would someone choice to step into one of the few places that we have to remind us that we as a whole are still second class (in goverment standing)
Think we are all entilted to believe the way we do but we should still have respect for other people feelings. Once DOMA is repealed then great let the heter. bachelorette parties come to the gay bars
John,
I had never thought if it this way but appreciate you pointing it out, because it does make sense. When my husband and I got married, I asked my gay uncle if he would be the officiant at our wedding. I felt terrible later when he described why he couldn’t do it. I had asked him as someoneI look up to and appreciate in my life (we were not having a religious ceremony.) It didn’t even occur to me at the time how insensitive it was that I was asking him to “marry us” when he himself, couldn’t get married. He politely explained it to me, how for this exact reason, he couldn’t do it and has a hard time with weddings in general.
As someone who cares about the feelings of all my LGBT friends and family, please continue to be patient and explain your feelings to us when we fail to see how something we are doing is hurtful- most of the time we don’t realize it and just want to include you/support you in all aspects of our lives. I know I felt like a totally insensitive turd when my uncle explained why he couldn’t officiate our wedding :-( and on a side note, I am currently dealing with fertility issues and I know I would be PISSED and HURT if someone came to my “infertility bar” and threw a baby shower…
Thanks for the post and much love xoxo.
I would first like to validate and commend any generous and thoughtful gestures intended by women having bachelorette parties at Gay establishments. It’s also flattering to think that there are times that you feel safer partying with your friends at Gay bars as you feel you’re less likely to be taken advantage of or accosted. Though I’m not sure it’s fair to hid behind gay friends for safety and not be outspoken about their civil rights. You may take such rights and liberties for granted but they are sorely missed in the Gay community. We have a similar group here in Palm Springs, CA called “The Bridezillas”. They seem well accepted and to my knowledge are never abusive to the other patrons or staff. I would only hope that they understand that while they celebrate their very happy occasion, there are many for whom the establishment was created to serve, who are as yet unable to celebrate said happy occasion for themselves. I can only hope that “The Bridezillas” are as adamant when it comes to voting and speaking out for the rights of the owners and patrons of that establishment as they are joyful in celebration of their event.
To Frank, I’m a native of San Francisco
where gays can and do make out in @ “straight” bars and it’s not a big deal.
What about birthday parties? I turn 27 this month and one of my friends is taking me to one of the local gay/drag bars to hang out, not for the safety factor, more for the relaxing, not having to deal with fundies factor. (we live DEEP in the bible belt)
Live and let live. A bachelorette party at a GAY establishment seems like the PERFECT venue. It “protects” the bachelorette group and allows them to have fun while supporting our community. Marriage is Marriage (not the GAY variety), I’m SO over hearing that crap!!! We support them, they’ll support us. Tolerance and Acceptance needs to come from BOTH sides for this issue to move in the right direction. :)
Would you hold a tap dance contest at the Paralympics?
Would you stage a sing-a-long flash mob at a school for the deaf?
Would you have a “best hair contest” at a children’s cancer ward?
Then why you do think it’s appropriate to celebrate your legal superiority in front of a bunch of people who’ve most likely had that right voted away from them?
And besides… gay bars are for gay PEOPLE. Those spaces exist because we’re not welcome in other places…we don’t feel comfortable in “straight” bars. We’re not animals in a petting zoo. We’re not props in your life. I get so tired of having drunken girls get in my way when I’m trying to cruise a guy at a bar and tell me that “when I come here I don’t have to worry about getting hit on” that I usually snap back “with you here, I don’t get hit on, either and that’s kinda the reason I came. beat it.”
I must admit, as a legally married gay man I never really gave much thought to this issue. Maybe it is different living in a state where we can be legally married. I understand your point about what happens to my marriage when I leave NY, but I don’t let that stop my going to Disney World in Florida with my married siblings. They are not the cause of the problem and (of course I’m making an assumption here) neither are the bachelorettes at the parties.
I would ask why are they there? Is it because there is a show that they can’t see anywhere else (like a great drag show)? Is the music better, the venue? The drink specials? Or are they there because it somehow makes it a “cool thing” to rub elbows with “those people”? The latter I would of course find offensive. But I also know there are a lot of open-minded young people really dedicated to full equality for all.
Now speaking as a curmudgeonly middle aged person, I must also say I tend to find bachelorette parties quite annoying in any venue- as I do most parties for any reason of loud intoxicated young people in public places. And stay off my lawn!
We have bachelorette parties at on bar in Kansas City and they’re horribly offensive. The women make it clear they are there to get super drunk and obnoxious while watching a drag show. One straight female friend told me how obnoxious she feels it is when straight women go to a gay bar because they tell her they’re “getting down and dirty.” My straight female friend was so offended by that remark. She said that her gay friends are not “down and dirty.” And as far as straight women saying they go to a gay bar because they feel safe, that’s a cop-out to equal rights for women. Are these straight women saying they’re too weak to handle themselves in a straight bar? Most straight women would know how to handle an offensive straight guy by going to the doorman, manager or bartender and handling it on their own without using gay bars as their safe zone. I tell these straight women that we literally have only 10 gay bars in our city while they have over a thousand straight bars to go to. Why won’t they let us enjoy our bar?
I don’t agree with this posting at all. Though I can see the near-sighted logic of unequal rights, I don’t like how judgemental this is or how it represents the gay communities behavior toward straight people. I’m more for peace love and happiness. I think its quite marginalizing, negative towards women, and moderately offensive. I also think its somewhat sexist as it doesn’t mention straight male bachelor parties at gay bars whatsoever. I have many very close allied, straight females of which I have been and will be happy to join them for their bachelorette party at any of my favorite gay bars or whatever establishment they choose to celebrate their own happiness with them. I will support them just as they continue to support and love me.
I have been to SOOOOO many weddings, baby showers, bach parties (at gay places and straight places) etc for my straight friends its really ridiculous. Spent big $ on them too. You know what, they are my friends, I love them, I support them and I am happy for them. I know they would do the same in return. Treat others how you want to be treated. I don’t get all upset and mad about the fact that I may not get those parties or “things”. Sure, it stings a little but I don’t cry over it. Its not their fault for crying out loud. They are supporting our community and spending in our establishments. They are our allies. They are who is going to help us moving forward. We are not there yet but look how far we have come.
I am a regular customer and former employee of The Roundup Saloon, in Dallas, TX. The bar is widely known throughout for it’s many awards as Best Gay Bar and Best Gay Country Western bar in the USA/World. It has seen the likes of celebrities such as Lady Gaga, Adam Lambert, Leslie Jordan, Del Shores, Jason Dottley, Ty Herndon, etc… No, you see why people flock there. Of course, there is the bar itself, the owners and staff, and regulars that make it what it is.
The only thing that I’ve noticed in a negative way of bachelorette parties coming in, is their lack of propriety and rudeness towards staff and customers. Although this doesn’t count for every one of them that has came in, but it does represent the majority. Before anyone reading this forms a negative opinion about what you’re reading, please note… this is my own personal opinion from my and other staff member/customer’s opinions.
Most of the girls are straight that come in, and most of them do not know how to handle their liquor. They become hot messes wanting to dance with every man that is out there and get offended when they are rejected. They then proceed to get out on the dance floor totally being disruptive the the dancers that are out there, who are following proper dance etiquette as far as country/western dancing is concerned. They are rude to bartenders by being impatient when there are long lines with other patrons waiting for drinks. They also are very rude to the DJ when told that he cannot play a song they want to hear.
This being said, in Dallas we have what is called “The Strip” which is all the gay bars on Cedar Springs to which the Roundup is a part of. I’ve heard the same complaints from friends who are bar owners, bartenders, bar staff, and customers of other businesses on the strip indicating they have the same experiences when these girls come up into their establishments. Bottom line, we don’t mind that you come in. Just act like you’ve got some manners, and some sense. Respect those around you. You can go to just about anywhere you want to with your party and have fun. Most LGBT people are limited to certain bars and certain areas for entertainment. Be mindful of that.
Just because you are getting married and you have all your girlfriends out with you, DOES NOT mean that the bar and everyone in it has to stop and bow to your every wish and command. I’m telling you… I’ve seen it over and over and over again. To the point where when these girls walk in, I can look around the bar and see people’s heads shake, eyes roll, and immediate gestures of disgust. It is not because the girls came in. It is because everyone knows what is going to ensue with the group once they start boozing up… if they haven’t done so already. Again, my opinion and A LOT of folks I know share the same idea of these parties. Sad, but true.
Have the bachelorette parties in gay bars and charge a significant fee per head that goes directly to EQCA or other organization that promote equality.
It isn’t that I don’t want bachelorette parties in a gay bar, I don’t want them anywhere at all. They are the worst!
The Abbey in West Hollywood banned bachelorette parties.
I disagree with John Becker on this one. The wider social exposure we have as gay people, the more straights who get to know us as decent human beings, who they can relate to in the same way they do with everyone else, the better. These are the people who’s vote will one day count when it comes to our own civil rights. We need them onside.
Join us. The more the merrier. And one day when your son leaps out the closet, remember to support him.
I really like you and your postings John, but I’m afraid I have to disagree on this one. Segregation is never a good thing and since we gays are constantly surrounded by heterosexuals, their rites, families, partners etc. I personally wouldn’t be bothered by a bachelorette party in a gay bar. This reminds me of how when I was younger, I always felt like a stranger in a strange land when I had to go to a wedding, felt ‘left out’ and forlorn sometimes. I’m sure many of the women who are still single at these parties feel the same way. But they have hope for the future, and now so do we! :)
Referring to bachelorette party attendees as “allies” might be a bit of a stretch. Generally speaking, most of these girls have only been to a gay bar during other bachelorette parties. Gay bars are chosen for these events for their novelty. If someone opened a carnival side-show bar, I think they would be equally popular with brides-to-be.
The problem I think is a general one not restricted to any particular reason a large, heavily drinking group of straight woman would come to a gay male majority bar. People drinking in groups often start throwing their weight around, acting like they own the place. When the drinking party are all from the socially dominant group and are hanging out at one of the socially subordinate group’s few refuges, that can be a particularly bad fit.
I’ve seen a group of straight women act like over-entitled jerks at a gay bar, but only once — and a big part of this group’s attitude was due to their obvious affluence. Otherwise, all the trouble I’ve seen come from straight people at gay bars has been from straight men.
John, my apologies but this is the most trivial thing you’ve written. Don’t resent innocent people. Get angry, or angrier, at the people actually working to keep things as they are.
While I understand gay bars wanting to make a statement about this, I don’t really think this is it. I know that a bachelorette party at a gay bar does not neccessarily mean support for gay marriage and that bachelorette parties can be really obnoxious, but I think it will show a better statement to let everyone party rather than to shove peole out.
Marriage parties are rude when they are sober and get to the church for their ceremonies. They are the center of the universe and nobody else is in it. So it doesn’t surprise me they would be rudeness personified when drunk and out to have a special time of “Noone else matters.”
I do not agree with your reasoning. We are better than that. This post is trivial and wrong-headed. We should welcome all of our friends and supporters and not become entangled in things that even make the “splitters” in Life of Brian seem to be capable of deep rational thought.
Regards,
Reyn
I’m noticing two major assumptions among people opposed to this idea. Not to say that everyone in opposition is espousing them.
1) That any woman who has a bachelorette party in a gay bar is an ally.
2) That we’re talking about banning straight women entirely.
The latter is simply false, while the former varies heavily between bachelorettes.
As for your two assumptions, it may be possible that a woman who has a bachelorette party in a gay bar is not an ally but its highly unlikely and second I seriously doubt anyone is thinking you’re talking about banning straight women entirely.
I think banning bachelorette parties is pretty hypocritical – engaging in the sort of exclusion that gay people have themselves experienced.
I have a wide range of feelings on this topic. I can’t be succinct, sorry.
So on the issue of straight women in our spaces, I would like to remind the women we love that these are intended to be safe spaces for queer folk. Gay bars are where we go to be away from heterosexual people and be around like-minded individuals who share the same sorts of lives and share the same experiences. While I recognize that you are experiencing misogyny and oppression in your own bars, please recognize that in many ways, straight folks have a certain amount of privilege and when it comes into our spaces, teaching our allies the proper etiquette and language to behave with in our spaces is not something that we can choosing to do; we are forced to do so when you come into our “territory” and really we’re probably not there for that. I rarely go to lesbian bars, because as a cismale I belong to the oppressor class and may inadvertently use my privilege in a way that disrupts my sapphic sisters’ ability to have a good time.
Using our spaces as a refuge not only, at times, infringes on our ability to “be ourselves” but also disempowers you from reclaiming straight bars as places you can be. If you would like, I will be happy to come with you to your bars to check the misogyny of straight men; nothing like angry queers and disaffected feminists to teach patriarchal f***s a lesson.
On the marriage issue: yes, it’s tacky to parade your wedding in front of those who can’t legally marry, but for those of use who do not support marriage equality (assimilating into a heteronormative institution, for me, merely encourages and perpetuates cycles of oppression from an oppressive heterosexual culture), this is a sad way of socializing queer people to believe that they have to exist in monogamous, coupled relationships in order to get special “rights” and value. Those who choose to remain non-married and coupled (or tripled, or just single) are excluded and told that they are not as happy as married people, or that they are less deserving of certain rights as married people. I find this deeply troubling. Marriage is part of a cycle of socialization that teaches us that we must marry (and procreate) in order to be functioning and productive members of society to produce lots of little humans to be workers in the capitalist machine; I reject that and think that frankly, bachelorette parties are a well-meaning and tiny cog in that larger, oppressive framework.
Lastly, the condoms in the wedding veil phenomenon is kinda gross, ladies. Yes, let’s practice safer sex but that is just tacky.
I wonder if they would have these “bachelorette” parties if the venue was THE EAGLE,THE SPIKE,or the now-defunct MEATRACK? And it is another patriarchal ritual to simply create more gender division.
Another perspective, emailed to me by a reader who did not want to use her name:
“In my life, I have known many people (both male and female)-personal friends, team mates, professional friends, people in heterosexual marriages and members of churches who are gay–some are closeted, some are out to certain people, some are very out and public about their relationships. I respect each person/couple to be whatever they chose as far as their personal/social/professional status. It has been a difficult road for people in the 60+++ categories to balance their lives–like the Sally Rides all over the nation.
The one place where the people I knew felt comfortable was the gay bar–men had their own, women had their own. It was a place they could converse, dance, socialize, meet people, just relax and not worry. No mention of who was there was ever discussed outside the bar. People traveled 100 or 200 miles just to go to a bar.
As times have changed, the men and women started overlapping-some liked that, some did not. The “did not like that” group quit going out (mostly women). Many older men and women lost the ability to socialize in a safe environment.
However, eventually, the gay bar became a place where heterosexuals started to “hang out” because of the good music and non-judgmental attitudes. It was cool to “see” who was there. Now what a dilemae for the gay person–is this guy gay, is she? Is this person going to “out” me? The heterosexuals who saw people in the bars assumed everyone there was gay and “outed” a bunch of people-some gay, some not. Lives were destroyed. Heterosexual people stared at, gawked at, went up to gays and laughed in their faces, and said derogatory things. This behavior caused many of my friends, team mates, professional people, church goers etc to quit socializing in public. According to the people I have known, “It’s not even safe to go to the bar anymore”.
As the younger generation is more “out”, the older generation is more “in”. What a pity that all these wonderful older gay men, women, couples, singles, have no where to go. Many of them just want to talk, dance, play cards, reminisce, have a drink, and be who they are. I am sure the people I know would like all heterosexuals to stay out of the gay bars. Completely stay out! Every other bar, restaurant, movie theater, dance, church picnic, social gathering and all of society is geared to you…..please stay out of the gay bars! The older ones would like to keep the gay bars for gay men only and women only.”
John, I can translate those three anonymous paragraphs into one sentence: “I want to die in the closet.” I think I’d rather hang out with the bachelorettes.
This post started with out people who want to marry their partners complaining about people who can rubbing it in their faces and it has morphed to people who will never marry complaining about exposing their faces.
“In my life, I have known many people … people in heterosexual marriages … who are gay.”
Yay! NOM is right after all. We can get married! This is one of their most oft repeated arguments! Let’s all travel 200 miles to hang out with this crew. Shotgun!
I never write comments on these things but this one I had to.
I am a heterosexual woman in a big city who recently had a bachelorette party in Palm Springs- a city I had always wanted to see for it’s architecture & design. we had no plans except for relaxing, a nice dinner and some fun. After meeting a woman who is a lesbian during the day- she invited us to a gay bar at night (yes- she knew we were a bachelorette party). We thought her sales pitch on the place was good, and yes it does beat hanging out with other heterosexual men who will just annoy us all night. So we went. No, it was not for all of the stereotypical assumptions listed above- it was genuinely b/c it sounded like a fun place to go. Respectively, I took my novelty veil off (given to me by my friends); I have two gay family members who have been with their partners for decades and there’s nothing I would love more than to see them wed. As promised we had a blast and met some wonderful people, including a gay couple who have been together 15 years and were so happy for me in getting married- and so disappointed I did NOT have a veil on, they made one out of napkins for all of us (including them) to wear in honor of the sanction of marriage and that we all strive for a day when all can marry.
I can’t agree more that this article is encouraging segregation and extremely presumptuous and stereotypical.
Hopefully ignorance can be extinct just as quickly as the ban on gay marriage.
My purpose in writing
What makes you think that your bachelorette party is typical Brianne?
Matthew K, there’s a reason the article didn’t mention straight male batchelor parties–straight men don’t have batchelor parties at gay bars. The reason it only talks about straight women is that only batchelorette parties go to gay bars. Why would a straight man have a batchelor party at a gay bar? Would a straight man want to be surrounded by half naked men on his batchelor pary?
Think man!
Ian Awesome said “Lastly, the condoms in the wedding veil phenomenon is kinda gross, ladies. Yes, let’s practice safer sex but that is just tacky.”.
Don’t be one of those people who’s got to suck the life out of other people’s fun. Its just like same sex marriage, if you don’t like same sex marriage or condom wedding veils then don’t have one.
Being gay myself I can completely understand your sensitivity on the issue. But I would have to respectfully disagree only for the fact that most women have their Bachelorette party at gay bars for the great venues and safe environment that the community provides. It is, in my opinion, our openness to accept others is what attracts them to our venues. The Bachelorette who is having the event may be in support of same sex marriage. What better way to support the community then to have her party at them. Sad as it may be that I cannot legally marry my love but good for her! I’m glad she is taking on the commitment and I will always buy you a shot! Come into my bar.
I dunno, but unless straight women’s bachelorette parties at gay bars become a massive, national problem, or a regional one, I say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it (with a ban). I’d say deal with it party by party, and if it gets a problem at any single venue, bar by bar. I’m not willing to assume every bachelorette party at a gay bar is going to be a problem. I don’t see the need for a blanket ban as long a pattern of problems hasn’t developed and regular patrons aren’t disgruntled.
However, I don’t believe we should have to be ultra-enlightened about this either. It’s natural for human beings who have been drinking to not feel tolerant of those who aren’t like them who they feel are invading their spaces, especially when they are part of an unter-group who are feeling invaded by a crowd of the uber-group. We shouldn’t have to deny we feel that way, and in certain circumstances, like when those outsiders are being obnoxious, bar management should be able to respect their regulars’ feelings and act accordingly.