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	<title>Comments on: Exodus President: Gay People, Supportive Families Are Pawns of the Devil</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/</link>
	<description>TruthWinsOut.org is a non-profit organization that counters right wing propaganda, exposes the “ex-gay” myth and educates America about gay life.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Emproph</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1586</link>
		<dc:creator>Emproph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;I&gt;"I had mixed feelings about writing this article for precisely those reasons, Jeff — I was afraid it might come across as he-said-she-said bickering.

One fundamental difficulty is Chambers’ refusal to converse. Instead of answering the questions that people really ask of ex-gays — thereby fostering a true conversation — Chambers and New Man rigged a series of irrelevant and evasive questions that purposely fuel adversarialism."&lt;/I&gt;
--
I think just mentioning all that solves the problem Mike - at least as much as possible. It shows that the unnecessary-promotion of ‘adversarialism’ is essentially one-directional.

By refusing to converse in any meaningful way, we are left with no choice but to interpret, extrapolate, or "translate" what they mean, from what they say.

So I think a thoughtfully worded disclaimer -- like what you’ve said above -- makes it perfectly possible to at least minimize any notion of "he-said-she-said bickering."
--
Actually, come to think of it, you hit the nail on the head with that observation. We’ve been put in a position of adversary for the express purpose of framing ANY response we may have as being adversarial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I had mixed feelings about writing this article for precisely those reasons, Jeff — I was afraid it might come across as he-said-she-said bickering.</p>
<p>One fundamental difficulty is Chambers’ refusal to converse. Instead of answering the questions that people really ask of ex-gays — thereby fostering a true conversation — Chambers and New Man rigged a series of irrelevant and evasive questions that purposely fuel adversarialism.&#8221;</i><br />
&#8211;<br />
I think just mentioning all that solves the problem Mike - at least as much as possible. It shows that the unnecessary-promotion of ‘adversarialism’ is essentially one-directional.</p>
<p>By refusing to converse in any meaningful way, we are left with no choice but to interpret, extrapolate, or &#8220;translate&#8221; what they mean, from what they say.</p>
<p>So I think a thoughtfully worded disclaimer &#8212; like what you’ve said above &#8212; makes it perfectly possible to at least minimize any notion of &#8220;he-said-she-said bickering.&#8221;<br />
&#8211;<br />
Actually, come to think of it, you hit the nail on the head with that observation. We’ve been put in a position of adversary for the express purpose of framing ANY response we may have as being adversarial.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Airhart</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1580</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Airhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=562#comment-1580</guid>
		<description>I had mixed feelings about writing this article for precisely those reasons, Jeff -- I was afraid it might come across as he-said-she-said bickering.

One fundamental difficulty is Chambers' refusal to converse. Instead of answering the questions that people really ask of ex-gays -- thereby fostering a true conversation -- Chambers and New Man rigged a series of irrelevant and evasive questions that purposely fuel adversarialism.

I still have to write Part III of this article: The questions that New Man would have asked if it were committed to conversation and truth-finding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had mixed feelings about writing this article for precisely those reasons, Jeff &#8212; I was afraid it might come across as he-said-she-said bickering.</p>
<p>One fundamental difficulty is Chambers&#8217; refusal to converse. Instead of answering the questions that people really ask of ex-gays &#8212; thereby fostering a true conversation &#8212; Chambers and New Man rigged a series of irrelevant and evasive questions that purposely fuel adversarialism.</p>
<p>I still have to write Part III of this article: The questions that New Man would have asked if it were committed to conversation and truth-finding.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=562#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>Good article and response. Once more it furthers the argument of us vs them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article and response. Once more it furthers the argument of us vs them.</p>
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		<title>By: Emproph</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1469</link>
		<dc:creator>Emproph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=562#comment-1469</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;"Chambers seems to have learned little from that self-assessment. Instead of stepping back from his role as the smug, angry brother, he fully exploits that status."

"By dismissing spiritual neighbors and fellow church members as “missing,” Chambers purposely strives to ostracize and disfellowship them."&lt;/I&gt;
--
Some of this stuff is seriously well put Mike. I appreciate it.
-Patrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Chambers seems to have learned little from that self-assessment. Instead of stepping back from his role as the smug, angry brother, he fully exploits that status.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;By dismissing spiritual neighbors and fellow church members as “missing,” Chambers purposely strives to ostracize and disfellowship them.&#8221;</i><br />
&#8211;<br />
Some of this stuff is seriously well put Mike. I appreciate it.<br />
-Patrick</p>
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		<title>By: jessie lee taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1432</link>
		<dc:creator>jessie lee taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=562#comment-1432</guid>
		<description>christianity like most major religons is an old fashioned shake down racket/business. old as whorin, you pay me or i fuck you up. simple, they sell fear.  as the general populace has become more educated the fear of hell and eternal damnation no longer sells (fills the coffers) as well as it used to. 

so they have over time adapted (evilotion in action) to different boogie men. its basic propaganda. hitler used the jews, facists had the communists, the communists had the corporations etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>christianity like most major religons is an old fashioned shake down racket/business. old as whorin, you pay me or i fuck you up. simple, they sell fear.  as the general populace has become more educated the fear of hell and eternal damnation no longer sells (fills the coffers) as well as it used to. </p>
<p>so they have over time adapted (evilotion in action) to different boogie men. its basic propaganda. hitler used the jews, facists had the communists, the communists had the corporations etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/exodus-president-gay-people-supportive-families-are-pawns-of-the-devil/#comment-1270</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=562#comment-1270</guid>
		<description>Chambers' self-righteous, right-wing spin is sickening and full of logical fallacies. How about this: GLBT get full equality in employment, housing, marriage so we play on an even playing field? Then, those who chose to use far-right religious tactics to find a way to hide behind the magic curtain can do so in an unclouded environment based on self-determination. Until the conditions of equality, respect, and self-determination are employed, Chambers is acting no more humanitarian than Hitler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chambers&#8217; self-righteous, right-wing spin is sickening and full of logical fallacies. How about this: GLBT get full equality in employment, housing, marriage so we play on an even playing field? Then, those who chose to use far-right religious tactics to find a way to hide behind the magic curtain can do so in an unclouded environment based on self-determination. Until the conditions of equality, respect, and self-determination are employed, Chambers is acting no more humanitarian than Hitler.</p>
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