Comments on: TWO Praises The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/ Fighting antigay lies and the ex-gay myth Mon, 21 May 2012 07:29:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Gary (NJ) http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42084 Gary (NJ) Wed, 11 May 2011 22:06:48 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42084 When I joined a gay inclusive Episcopal church several years ago, I told the (straight-married) priest that I was only there because they had full inclusion of women and lgbt people. I also told him that he had no idea how much rage against religion that there was in the gay community. He said, 'that's because we've hurt you so much'. At least he 'got it', but I wanted to say that 'hurt' is an understatement, psychologically crushing and spiritual rape was more like it. When I joined a gay inclusive Episcopal church several years ago, I told the (straight-married) priest that I was only there because they had full inclusion of women and lgbt people. I also told him that he had no idea how much rage against religion that there was in the gay community. He said, ‘that’s because we’ve hurt you so much’. At least he ‘got it’, but I wanted to say that ‘hurt’ is an understatement, psychologically crushing and spiritual rape was more like it.

]]> By: Brian http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42080 Brian Wed, 11 May 2011 20:14:20 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42080 In other words, IMHO, the homophobia is merely a symptom of the greater flaw of Christianity, which is it's unwillingness to accept any other view but their own (fundamentalism). In other words, IMHO, the homophobia is merely a symptom of the greater flaw of Christianity, which is it’s unwillingness to accept any other view but their own (fundamentalism).

]]> By: Brian http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42079 Brian Wed, 11 May 2011 20:03:48 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42079 Gene, I must confess to being rather snarky when I posted this morning, and yes I DO get it, and yes, you accurately understand how burnt I have been. I'm an ex-born-again with an enormous chip on my shoulder when it comes to Christianity. Yes, this is a huge step forward, and yes, it will take several moves like this before the animosity and outright poison directed at LGBT from Christianity comes to an end. Even so, I'm still left with this, as you correctly stated in your initial post: "That will shut them up and take away their power WAY faster than just saying you don’t believe in their faith, which only (due to their persecuted worldview) makes the speaker look “lost” and thus unworthy of real consideration." It just means that now that instead of hating me for being gay, they can still write me off as unworthy of consideration because of my atheism. I find it hard to be happy about the fact that now they can hate me on equal terms with everyone else who does not believe. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but they will have to do a shitload of work before they will earn **my** respect. "Gay-friendly" does not automatically make them my friend. I grudgingly concede the political importance of this step. I am NOT joining their fan club any time soon. Gene, I must confess to being rather snarky when I posted this morning, and yes I DO get it, and yes, you accurately understand how burnt I have been. I’m an ex-born-again with an enormous chip on my shoulder when it comes to Christianity.

Yes, this is a huge step forward, and yes, it will take several moves like this before the animosity and outright poison directed at LGBT from Christianity comes to an end.

Even so, I’m still left with this, as you correctly stated in your initial post: “That will shut them up and take away their power WAY faster than just saying you don’t believe in their faith, which only (due to their persecuted worldview) makes the speaker look “lost” and thus unworthy of real consideration.”

It just means that now that instead of hating me for being gay, they can still write me off as unworthy of consideration because of my atheism. I find it hard to be happy about the fact that now they can hate me on equal terms with everyone else who does not believe.

Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but they will have to do a shitload of work before they will earn **my** respect. “Gay-friendly” does not automatically make them my friend. I grudgingly concede the political importance of this step. I am NOT joining their fan club any time soon.

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42072 Priya Lynn Wed, 11 May 2011 16:09:35 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42072 Gene said "This site is run by proud athiests if I remember correctly.". I'm pretty sure Wayne is not an atheist. In fact I think Evan is the only one posting here. Gene said “This site is run by proud athiests if I remember correctly.”.

I’m pretty sure Wayne is not an atheist. In fact I think Evan is the only one posting here.

]]> By: Joel http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42070 Joel Wed, 11 May 2011 15:22:05 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42070 "The problem is this isn’t going to change many within the Presbytarian church." Dimmest statement I have perhaps ever read, that nothing will change within a group, in direct response to news of...change within a group. Does Tim W believe that the 19 presbyteries that shifted their vote were all temporarily imported? Were they actors hired for this one vote? Not evidence of continuing change "within the Presbyterian church"? I agree strongly with Gene, esp this: "To be blunt, your bitterness towards religion in general is blinding you to a Huge gain for all GLBT people. Even those with no religious beliefs." “The problem is this isn’t going to change many within the Presbytarian church.”

Dimmest statement I have perhaps ever read, that nothing will change within a group, in direct response to news of…change within a group.

Does Tim W believe that the 19 presbyteries that shifted their vote were all temporarily imported? Were they actors hired for this one vote? Not evidence of continuing change “within the Presbyterian church”?

I agree strongly with Gene, esp this: “To be blunt, your bitterness towards religion in general is blinding you to a Huge gain for all GLBT people. Even those with no religious beliefs.”

]]> By: Tim W http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42069 Tim W Wed, 11 May 2011 14:57:59 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42069 Gene, The problem is this isn't going to change many within the Presbytarian church. My brother is a member of the Presbytarian U.S.A. and his congregation is anti-gay and uses it as justification. Gene,
The problem is this isn’t going to change many within the Presbytarian church. My brother is a member of the Presbytarian U.S.A. and his congregation is anti-gay and uses it as justification.

]]> By: Gene http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42067 Gene Wed, 11 May 2011 12:53:43 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42067 Brian, WMDKitty, I have a lot of respect for athiests, and get along great with several in here. Many Athiests are really supportive of GLBT rights, and I appreciate that. Some right wing nuts will troll sites like this, read comments like yours, and spin it into "Of course, gays don't really care if the church accepts them, they just want to destroy our heritage" etc. etc. We have all seen this. Some of you have been really burnt by the church. I get it. I am not even going to argue it with you. I have friends who are so bitter they want nothing to do with it, and if I had their experiences, I might be the same. But I have not. I met my husband of 21 years in Church. 21 years ago, there were few places that welcomed us as we are, but, the church did, and I am thankful for it. And yes, it was a Presbyterian Church. To be blunt, your bitterness towards religion in general is blinding you to a Huge gain for all GLBT people. Even those with no religious beliefs. This site is run by proud athiests if I remember correctly, but they see the value in this. We all should. TWO Praises the Presyterian Church (USA)....and we all should be celebrating right now. Even those who do not believe. Brian, WMDKitty, I have a lot of respect for athiests, and get along great with several in here. Many Athiests are really supportive of GLBT rights, and I appreciate that.

Some right wing nuts will troll sites like this, read comments like yours, and spin it into “Of course, gays don’t really care if the church accepts them, they just want to destroy our heritage” etc. etc. We have all seen this.

Some of you have been really burnt by the church. I get it. I am not even going to argue it with you. I have friends who are so bitter they want nothing to do with it, and if I had their experiences, I might be the same. But I have not.

I met my husband of 21 years in Church. 21 years ago, there were few places that welcomed us as we are, but, the church did, and I am thankful for it. And yes, it was a Presbyterian Church.

To be blunt, your bitterness towards religion in general is blinding you to a Huge gain for all GLBT people. Even those with no religious beliefs. This site is run by proud athiests if I remember correctly, but they see the value in this. We all should.

TWO Praises the Presyterian Church (USA)….and we all should be celebrating right now. Even those who do not believe.

]]> By: WMDKitty http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42065 WMDKitty Wed, 11 May 2011 11:24:17 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42065 @Brian -- in order to do that, they'd have to get rid of Christianity, period. @Brian — in order to do that, they’d have to get rid of Christianity, period.

]]> By: Brian http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42063 Brian Wed, 11 May 2011 10:55:58 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42063 Now if they would just do something about those pesky horrible doctrines that make Christianity so poisonous, like hell and predestination... Now if they would just do something about those pesky horrible doctrines that make Christianity so poisonous, like hell and predestination…

]]> By: Barney Frank: US Should Oppose Uganda Aid if Anti-Gay Bill Passes; Obama DOJ Equates Gay Servicemembers with Drug Addicts, Alcoholics and Those Who Are Threat to National Security; New Illinois State Rep., Lesbian with 3 Adopted Kids, Will Fight Bigotry o http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2011/05/16437/comment-page-1/#comment-42060 Barney Frank: US Should Oppose Uganda Aid if Anti-Gay Bill Passes; Obama DOJ Equates Gay Servicemembers with Drug Addicts, Alcoholics and Those Who Are Threat to National Security; New Illinois State Rep., Lesbian with 3 Adopted Kids, Will Fight Bigotry o Wed, 11 May 2011 09:36:22 +0000 http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=16437#comment-42060 [...] TWO Praises The Presbyterian Church (USA). Read more [...] [...] TWO Praises The Presbyterian Church (USA). Read more [...]

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