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	<title>Comments on: TWO to New York Times: Stop Promoting the ‘Ex-Gay’ Myth to Teenagers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/</link>
	<description>Fighting antigay lies and the ex-gay myth</description>
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		<title>By: whitestoneptofqueens</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78898</link>
		<dc:creator>whitestoneptofqueens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Outstanding article Physical Therap. It gives to body balance relief. But emotional,  psychological and energetic emotional may injure]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outstanding article Physical Therap. It gives to body balance relief. But emotional,  psychological and energetic emotional may injure</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Hlavac</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78897</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hlavac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 07:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it ironic that we are the ones seeking to protect children -- while our opponents are out to directly injure them -- while they accuse us of being harmful to children.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it ironic that we are the ones seeking to protect children &#8212; while our opponents are out to directly injure them &#8212; while they accuse us of being harmful to children.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78896</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Melinda Nelson:

It may well be that every teenager who identifies as gay does not need the same thing either. What they do NOT need in any event is useless and potentially harmful “therapy” intended to change their sexual orientation. As a onetime teacher, I know perfectly well that how someone feels at 13 may not be how they feel at 15, which in turn may not be how they feel at 18. If they are conflicted over their sexual attractions, they need reassurance that if they finally turn out straight that is absolutely fine, and if they finally turn out gay or bi-sexual that is equally fine. Unless their sexuality manifests itself in a harmful way, e.g. predatory behaviour, there is no justification for attempting to tamper with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melinda Nelson:</p>
<p>It may well be that every teenager who identifies as gay does not need the same thing either. What they do NOT need in any event is useless and potentially harmful “therapy” intended to change their sexual orientation. As a onetime teacher, I know perfectly well that how someone feels at 13 may not be how they feel at 15, which in turn may not be how they feel at 18. If they are conflicted over their sexual attractions, they need reassurance that if they finally turn out straight that is absolutely fine, and if they finally turn out gay or bi-sexual that is equally fine. Unless their sexuality manifests itself in a harmful way, e.g. predatory behaviour, there is no justification for attempting to tamper with it.</p>
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		<title>By: RainbowPhoenix</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78895</link>
		<dc:creator>RainbowPhoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 17:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is nothing complex about &quot;ex-gay&quot; therapy Melinda. It doesn&#039;t work, it never has, and has been known to cause severe damage. So why allow minors to be psychologically tortured?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing complex about &#8220;ex-gay&#8221; therapy Melinda. It doesn&#8217;t work, it never has, and has been known to cause severe damage. So why allow minors to be psychologically tortured?</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78894</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 17:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Why bother with a complex argument like yours, when a simple one like the above will do?&quot; William

For the same reason there is not a simple answer as to the correct response to a 5 yr old who says they want to be the opposite sex. i.e. Every 5 yr old who presents exactly the same and says exactly the same thing--does not need the same thing. 

That is true with very concrete physical realities--and compounded many times with matters of gender and sexuality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why bother with a complex argument like yours, when a simple one like the above will do?&#8221; William</p>
<p>For the same reason there is not a simple answer as to the correct response to a 5 yr old who says they want to be the opposite sex. i.e. Every 5 yr old who presents exactly the same and says exactly the same thing&#8211;does not need the same thing. </p>
<p>That is true with very concrete physical realities&#8211;and compounded many times with matters of gender and sexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78893</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 15:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; But there is also a very vulnerable population of gay adolescents who are very motivated to seek some type of ‘reparative counseling’ because they feel they are very “different,” that they can’t change, and that they are worthless because of that&quot;

And this is the exact reason why conversion therapy is a waste of time, harmful, and doesn&#039;t address the REAL issue-- societal prejudice expressed through legal channels as sodomy laws, medical channels as mental illness, and Religous channels as the unforgivable sin against nature and nature&#039;s god. 

Much the same mechanisms have been used forever against women and racial minorities. the reality remains there is nothing wrong with these kids and never has been. Every gay kid that grows up to be a functioning, loving human being despite the mountains of social feces tossed at them by chittering educated apes is a testament to both the innate health of gay people and the innate social sickness of prejudice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; But there is also a very vulnerable population of gay adolescents who are very motivated to seek some type of ‘reparative counseling’ because they feel they are very “different,” that they can’t change, and that they are worthless because of that&#8221;</p>
<p>And this is the exact reason why conversion therapy is a waste of time, harmful, and doesn&#8217;t address the REAL issue&#8211; societal prejudice expressed through legal channels as sodomy laws, medical channels as mental illness, and Religous channels as the unforgivable sin against nature and nature&#8217;s god. </p>
<p>Much the same mechanisms have been used forever against women and racial minorities. the reality remains there is nothing wrong with these kids and never has been. Every gay kid that grows up to be a functioning, loving human being despite the mountains of social feces tossed at them by chittering educated apes is a testament to both the innate health of gay people and the innate social sickness of prejudice.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78892</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 14:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Melinda Nelson:

I suggest the following alternative argument:

“While spontaneous change of sexual orientation cannot be ruled out, such cases are exceptional. There is no credible evidence that attempts deliberately to contrive a change of this kind (e.g. prayer, ‘ex-gay’ programs, ‘conversion therapy’) are successful, and there is evidence that they are potentially harmful.  Even where no positive and enduring harm is done, the inevitable waste of time, and often also of money, constitutes sufficient condemnation. Furthermore, since homosexuality (or ‘same-sex attraction’, as some prefer to call it) is not an illness, disorder or defect, it does not need correcting. Therefore, no supposed therapy or other procedure purporting to change sexual orientation should ever be promoted to minors.” 

Why bother with a complex argument like yours, when a simple one like the above will do?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melinda Nelson:</p>
<p>I suggest the following alternative argument:</p>
<p>“While spontaneous change of sexual orientation cannot be ruled out, such cases are exceptional. There is no credible evidence that attempts deliberately to contrive a change of this kind (e.g. prayer, ‘ex-gay’ programs, ‘conversion therapy’) are successful, and there is evidence that they are potentially harmful.  Even where no positive and enduring harm is done, the inevitable waste of time, and often also of money, constitutes sufficient condemnation. Furthermore, since homosexuality (or ‘same-sex attraction’, as some prefer to call it) is not an illness, disorder or defect, it does not need correcting. Therefore, no supposed therapy or other procedure purporting to change sexual orientation should ever be promoted to minors.” </p>
<p>Why bother with a complex argument like yours, when a simple one like the above will do?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78891</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You answered your own question in your last sentence: &quot;After all, every prescription drug that is a proven life-saver must still delineate all the ways in which it can harm or kill.”
There is no proof that reparative therapy works.
In 1978, at 16, I made the choice to seek therapy on my own because I was struggling with coming to terms with being gay.
I went into it thinking, maybe even hoping, that I could change.
Thank God my therapist was intelligent enough to tell me from the start that our goal would not be &quot;to change.&quot;  She told me our goal would be to discover who I was, and to give me the skills to be comfortable with who I was.  Whoever that turned out to be, gay or straight or bi.
Had she believed in reparative therapy, or taken my &quot;wish&quot; as her driving goal, my life would have probably taken a very different path.  I am forever grateful to her for being the more equipped, more logical, more intelligent, and more adult in the situation. And this was 1978!
Had she only gone by my initial wishes, or my parents continual wishes (to this day), I would probably still be suffering the long term ramifications.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You answered your own question in your last sentence: &#8220;After all, every prescription drug that is a proven life-saver must still delineate all the ways in which it can harm or kill.”<br />
There is no proof that reparative therapy works.<br />
In 1978, at 16, I made the choice to seek therapy on my own because I was struggling with coming to terms with being gay.<br />
I went into it thinking, maybe even hoping, that I could change.<br />
Thank God my therapist was intelligent enough to tell me from the start that our goal would not be &#8220;to change.&#8221;  She told me our goal would be to discover who I was, and to give me the skills to be comfortable with who I was.  Whoever that turned out to be, gay or straight or bi.<br />
Had she believed in reparative therapy, or taken my &#8220;wish&#8221; as her driving goal, my life would have probably taken a very different path.  I am forever grateful to her for being the more equipped, more logical, more intelligent, and more adult in the situation. And this was 1978!<br />
Had she only gone by my initial wishes, or my parents continual wishes (to this day), I would probably still be suffering the long term ramifications.</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78890</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A physical therapist friend hates chiroprators. She thinks they are fraudulent quacks. But she ended up seeing one because the treatments enabled her to walk after being confined to a wheelchair.

I think she is right--that much of the profession is not legitimate. But jumping to the stance that every person who seeks chiropractic has the same issue, that chiropractic is one thing, that every practitioner does the same thing and has the same outcome, etc. is such a vast simplification and generalization as to render the judgement more fraudulent then the alleged fraud.

My daughter lost her grip in her right hand. We did the M.D. routine; imaging; the whole 9 yards. No improvement. We visited a chiropractor who fixed it in five minutes. We returned to M.D.--who could not acknowledge the chiropractor had done anything.

The MD&#039;s dogma, the MD&#039;s profession, the MD&#039;s public fight---was more important than the patient.

Why not argue something like the following: &quot;Any attempts to change our thoughts, attractions or behavior around sexuality are complex. Just as there are many valid reasons to seek some kind of change--or seek therapeutic support--there are many occasions in which it is harmful. Some persons  have a range of attractions and behaviors and could make great use of effective mental health professionals to help them sort out desires and choices. But there is also a very vulnerable population of gay adolescents who are very motivated to seek some type of &#039;reparative counseling&#039; because they feel they are very &quot;different,&quot; that they can&#039;t change, and that they are worthless because of that. This group is so vulnerable that we believe any promotion of reparative therapy to minors is wrong and ought be removed; unless those who are practicing and promoting such therapy very clearly and explicitly delineate for whom it is appropriate. After all, every prescription drug that is a proven life-saver must still delineate all the ways in which it can harm or kill.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A physical therapist friend hates chiroprators. She thinks they are fraudulent quacks. But she ended up seeing one because the treatments enabled her to walk after being confined to a wheelchair.</p>
<p>I think she is right&#8211;that much of the profession is not legitimate. But jumping to the stance that every person who seeks chiropractic has the same issue, that chiropractic is one thing, that every practitioner does the same thing and has the same outcome, etc. is such a vast simplification and generalization as to render the judgement more fraudulent then the alleged fraud.</p>
<p>My daughter lost her grip in her right hand. We did the M.D. routine; imaging; the whole 9 yards. No improvement. We visited a chiropractor who fixed it in five minutes. We returned to M.D.&#8211;who could not acknowledge the chiropractor had done anything.</p>
<p>The MD&#8217;s dogma, the MD&#8217;s profession, the MD&#8217;s public fight&#8212;was more important than the patient.</p>
<p>Why not argue something like the following: &#8220;Any attempts to change our thoughts, attractions or behavior around sexuality are complex. Just as there are many valid reasons to seek some kind of change&#8211;or seek therapeutic support&#8211;there are many occasions in which it is harmful. Some persons  have a range of attractions and behaviors and could make great use of effective mental health professionals to help them sort out desires and choices. But there is also a very vulnerable population of gay adolescents who are very motivated to seek some type of &#8216;reparative counseling&#8217; because they feel they are very &#8220;different,&#8221; that they can&#8217;t change, and that they are worthless because of that. This group is so vulnerable that we believe any promotion of reparative therapy to minors is wrong and ought be removed; unless those who are practicing and promoting such therapy very clearly and explicitly delineate for whom it is appropriate. After all, every prescription drug that is a proven life-saver must still delineate all the ways in which it can harm or kill.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Wins Out - About.com Page Promotes Ex-Gay Myth to Teenagers</title>
		<link>http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/2012/09/29316/comment-page-1/#comment-78889</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Wins Out - About.com Page Promotes Ex-Gay Myth to Teenagers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthwinsout.org/?p=29316#comment-78889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Update: Truth Wins Out press release [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Update: Truth Wins Out press release [...] </p>
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