Today, I appeared on CNN with host Carol Costello to share my viewpoint on Pastor Louie
Giglio pulling out of the Inauguration. As I told the New York Times prior to Giglio’s withdraw:
“It is imperative that Giglio clarify his remarks and explain whether he has evolved on gay rights, like so many other faith and political leaders. It would be a shame to select a preacher with backward views on L.G.B.T. people at a moment when the nation is rapidly moving forward on our issues.”
Well, it seems that the pastor had not evolved and the administration had to show him the door yesterday. John Aravosis at Americablog believes the pastor was essentially canned, and I agree. Here was TWO’s official statement:
“We applaud the president for removing a divisive figure who would have cast a shadow over the inauguration ceremony. We hope he uses this opportunity to choose a progressive faith leader who values inclusion for all Americans.”
“It is still baffling that Giglio was chosen in the first place. We are confident that with a concerted effort the president can complete the Herculean task of finding a preacher that doesn’t disdain LGBT people.”
Needless to say, the Religious Right is hopping mad. R. Albert Mohler Jr. wrote in BPNews:
The gauntlet was thrown down yesterday, and the axe fell today…And there you have it — anyone who has ever believed that homosexuality is morally problematic in any way must now offer public repentance and evidence of having “evolved” on the question. This is the language that President Obama used of his own “evolving” position on same-sex marriage. This is what is now openly demanded of Christians today. If you want to avoid being thrown off the program, you had better learn to evolve fast, and repent in public.
What the fundamentalists don’t get is that we also have freedom of speech. For every anti-gay action they take — there will be a reaction, and the American public is increasingly turned off by blatant acts of homophobia. Preachers like Giglio and Mohler are free to say what they want. But times have changed and they can no longer expect people to sit there with a polite smile as they bash their gay friends, neighbors, family members, and co-workers.
I was up against ant-gay activist Peter Sprigg, who once said he wanted to export homosexuals out of the United States. He later apologized for the comment, but his overheated rhetoric helped land the Family Research Council on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of hate groups. I thank the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation’s (GLAAD) for their accountability project, which provides background on scoundrels like Sprigg.







I wish I could have watch this Wayne but I’m at work. I hope you post some highlights here. Thanks for all you do! I’m very proud of you!
Love the title – Giglio Imbroglio is very clever! Hope the interview goes well Wayne!
I’ll post the video as soon as I get a copy. :)
Here is the video
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2013/01/11/exp-nr-costello-sprigg-besen-giglio.cnn
Very good Wayne!
I too am stuck at work but GLAAD is reporting that you ripped Sprigg a new one.
Hats off!!!
(I would expect nothing less, Mr. Besen..)
Great job as usual Wayne! What a ugly looking creep this Sprigg character is..
Excellent job Wayne. You delivered with peace clarity and wisdom, something dear Sprigg seemingly had trouble choking on. And, you had the MC’s backing. Very good.
You’re right, most people are over the demonization schtick of gay people in general.
2013 should prove to be a very very exciting year for gay rights.
Wayne,
With all due respect, I have no idea what the heck you’re really about. Who are you to INSIST that Giglio “clarify his remarks and explain whether he has evolved on gay rights, like so many other faith and political leaders.”
Did you sir, listen to Giglio’s sermon? What did you hear him say that caused you to INSIST that he clarify his remarks? What part of that wasn’t clear? Giglio, along with many other conservative Christians pastors like myself, are NOT gay haters. I have gay relatives and friends who are gay. I have a brother who is gay, who I love very much! To take a stand on the issue of homosexuality and teach people what God’s Word says about it, in NO WAY means we are gay haters! I’m sure you’d tell your ten year old son or daughter that having sex right now is wrong. Does that mean you’d HATE your kids if they revealed to you that they had indeed had sex with one of their 11 year old friends? I highly doubt it! You can have convictions without having hate. You say that people like Giglio can no longer “bash their gay friends, neighbors, family members, and co-workers” without serious repercussions. Is that really how you interpreted what Giglio said in that sermon of his 15 years ago? I didn’t hear any “hate language” as you suggest. He simply stated that Jesus is the only One who can rescue someone from living a gay lifestyle. Does that imply homosexuality is biblically wrong? Yes, it does. But, does that make him a gay hater as you suggest. Absolutely not. Unless of course someone is just looking to pervert the truth in order to have something to talk about. And just a PS – aren’t you doing the same thing to Louie that you are accusing Louie of doing to the “gay population”? You feel like he is anti-gay. Aren’t you sir, in fact, anti-Christian? You’re dogging us much the same way you think Louie is dogging the gay community. Maybe I’m confused, but it sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. That’s far too easy to do. Raise the bar Wayne. Raise the bar.
And who are you to tell people the way they are living their lives’ is wrong? Because you have a Bronze Age book that also tells you the world is flat. Telling people they are condemned unless they accept some long dead guy as a savior isn’t exactly loving. It certainly is delusional and sick. I like you all instantly become the victims. Anybody who criticizes you is anti-Christian and somehow harming you. Please let me know when roving bands of homosexuals start going around and beating up Christians as they leave their churches on Sundays. Or when they start beating Christians until they are unconscious and then leave them to die tied to fences in the freezing cold. Or when they start holding placards up in front of churches with messages saying that Christians are terrorists, or thanking someone for a deadly disease perceived to kill only Christians. Yeah, I don’t think that will be happening anytime soon.
Continuing to preach that homosexuality is sinful, unnatural, a mental illness, or otherwise harmful even though all the scientific evidence we have says otherwise is indeed hateful.Same sex attraction is well documented in over 1500 species. It is natural, your beliefs are not. Science disproves religious belief again and again offering actual evidence. You know, proof? You simply have faith. Something you wish to believe in no matter what. That’s fine. You have the right to believe in your fantasy. You do not have the right to demonize an entire group of people based on your deranged fantasy. At least not in this country. However, you’d be free to torture and kill all the homos in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps you’d be more comfortable living there? But then they have the wrong religion don’t they? I’m sue only yours is the only correct one. After all you already made it clear that the only way to be saved is through your beloved zombie. Isn’t that convenient?
Telling people they are going to burn for eternity unless they believe in what you believe in is not loving. It is sick and perverse. It’s also pathetic and betrays the insecurity of the religion. If you have to frighten people into accepting your way of life then there really isn’t much substance in it. If it really is the “truth” then it will stand on its own merits.
Dirk, what do you mean by asking Wayne “Who are you to INSIST that Giglio “clarify his remarks and explain whether he has evolved on gay rights, like so many other faith and political leaders.”?
He has as much right to INSIST on this as any other citizen of the United States. But also, he’s an activist and the founder of TWO.
Who are you?
Sprigg looks so unhappy, haha.
Good job Wayne. Looks like you had Carol Costello on your side as well.
I’m proud of you, Wayne. Thank you for speaking up for us (“us” = all human beings). By standing up for the LGBT community, you are standing up for human right for everybody — even for that idiot you debated. He, ultimately, will benefit from an increase in fairness for all. I love you, Wayne!!!
Well done, Wayne.
DITTO all the above, Wayne.
Way to go Wayne, that was outstanding.
Wayne, you did a terrific job!!! That other man was as confused and irrelevant as his position. How the heck you are going to talk about tolerance and acceptance of Gays, while at the same time having problem with them? His rant about ‘sexual conduct’ is a major lol!!! He’s banking on the centuries of negating gay sex by the church; but people are moving away from the stigma the church has attached to gay sex, because many heterosexual couples are also having ‘gay sex’! It is people like him why many people do not bother with religion. It will do Christianity good for more Progressive pastors to come forward and speak openly about tolerance and the respect for gay rights; if not, they are going to lose out.
Peter Sprigg looks like a desperately unhappy man. I almost feel sorry for him…almost.
Dear Dirk Helmling,
To assume that Jesus needs to rescue someone from a lifestyle is to assume that that lifestyle is innately wrong. Jesus never condemned “sexual transgressors” as he understood that those loudest in their condemnation had the least moral authority to do so because of their own actions.
The one who most closely came to any sort of condemnation was Paul. He made a theologically very interesting statement when he said that God gave them up to their unnatural lusts. The implication is that God normally keeps people from such lusts. So, if God hands them over to it, morally God is responsible for their acting on such lusts because having originally stopped them, and having the power to continue stopping them, by failing in his fiduciary responsibilities, he is abdicating the moral high ground — at least that is the story according to Paul.
The retort to the argument that God is morally responsible for people acting on their gayness is that people have free will. Here is the problem with such a rebuttal: Firstly, no one wakes up and says, “Gee, I think I will be gay today.” No one says, “Everyone likes vanilla and hates chocolate. I think out of sheer perversity, today, I am going to hate vanilla, which I was born loving, and start loving chocolate, which I was born hating.” Can you see the absurdity? Object of passion, arousal, response is not chosen but arises spontaneously. According to religion, as all things come from God, that spontaneous response thus is a gift of God, and to spit on it is to spit on a gift God gave gay people. But, you say, God condemned homosexuality in no uncertain terms in the Bible, calling it an abomination and forbidding man to lie with a man. Perhaps in the version of the Bible you read, perhaps in the translations of the Bible you have read; however, the original does not read that way. It clearly states that a man shall not lie with another man the lyings of a woman. Textual analysis of the chapter which would be too long to go into here reveals that the text is NOT addressing physical action but a relational attribute as women lay with men as wives (Sarah,. et. al), concubines, temple “prostitutes,” prostitutes, and lovers (Dinah). In short, the passage was telling men HOW to have intimacy with other men — not to treat them as women, as possessions, but as equals, as men.
Frankly, I don’t expect you accept my arguments merely on my say-so. It would be nice, though, if you reflected on them. If you wanted fuller detail or to respond, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you and take care.
Great debate!!! I’ve been hearing these same beliefs being thrown around by pastors for almost thirty years now… Wayne, I think you made an excellent point in stating they’ve grown stale and the majority of American are tired of them.
Dirk H,
Would you rather be right or would you rather be smart?
You’re looking very unstudied very irrational very dense and very stupid right now.
Why is there a clergy person involved in a presidential inauguration at all? This country was founded on the separation of government and religion (see the First Amendment) so religion has no place at any government function. No pastors, no problem.
And yes, Wayne, an anti-choice pastor is just as offensive as an anti-gay one. Pastors have no business participating in a presidential inauguration.
@Ginger,
I would have to disagree with you. I would want a priest of my faith at the inauguration if I were ever elected president. Mind you that would be a neo-Pagan priest, but I would want one there.
Regards.
My father used to say to me – We should all be free to do whatever and think whatever, as long as that freedom does not infringe on the freedom of another person.
There is nothing about being gay that infringes on pastors or religious persons. Why do some pastors think they should be able to denigrate the dignity of a person for being gay? (My answer to that is a fear of their own sexuality.)
You spoke eloquently, Mr. Besen. Thank you for speaking for the rights of everyone.
Being “in the mainstream” of thought is not necessarily good and should never be used as an excuse for bigotry. As a woman, I understand the gay movement and hope that bigotry in the name of freedom dies from religion – whether concerning women or gays.
Thank you again, Mr. Besen.
Thank you, Wayne. And thank you for all the work you do. You speak so calmly, rationally, intelligently– and are polite to boot. Kudos for reminding this “man” of what he once called for… it really threw him from the train. Keep up the wonderful work– we are very appreciative.
Yours was a brilliant exposition of a core precept in any a-u-t-h-e-n-t-i-c democracy–minorities will not be fodder for antisocial hate campaigns …especially when conducted by people whose claim to moral primacy and esoteric knowledge of the workings of Creation rest only and solely on their own testimony. I’m grateful to you, Wayne Besen, for calling right-wing hate mongers to account. It’s way past time to confront the radicals who find it opportune to transmogrify the Gentle Shepherd into a storm trooper.
You did a great job with your words and your timing and allowing your opponent to hang himself.
You da man, Wayne! Your e-mail about this said he had a “deer in the headlights” moment … I couldn’t tell with those beady little eyes … ;-D