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Also — John and I with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow!
TWO’s Wayne Besen on MSNBC News with Thomas Roberts
38About the Author
Wayne Besen is the Founding Executive Director of Truth Wins Out and author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth” (Haworth, 2003). In 2010, Besen was awarded the “Visionary Award” at the Out Music Awards for organizing the American Prayer Hour, an event which shined a spotlight on the role American evangelicals played in the introduction of Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill.
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Congrats to TWO for making it into the big leagues! Now I wish Bill Maher would invite you on. ps…love the rainbow tie.
tsktsk….such a shame…that a person such as she would speak against her creator and the one who has given her the breath that she breathes.
pro-creation is not limited to those who are so called heterosexual. God is love and when we love God is present.
Jesus desires that we should be one as he and God are one.
The beauty of love is dear…..those who do not KNOW love is very clear…..
Wayne Besen is one of my respected friends! Thanks Wayne for your fortitude in the cause of LOVE!
Excellent, Wayne! I’m thrilled mainstream media is at last taking this seriously.
Now what about NARTH receiving accreditation and allowed to renew its license? Something is wrong.
Gay people who.struggle w orientation are really suffering. Id like to see recommendations for these people when talking to the media i.e. go to support groups, find an unbiased therapist, go to a gay accepting church etc. These people need guidance and help as so many are lost. It’s good to tear down negs, and it’s also helpful to give some positives to help our Bros and sisters cope.
Okay, im gonna get all fan girl here for a moment…OMG!!!! You touched Rachel Maddow!!!!
okay, I will now praise you guys on the great work.
Bachmann has never denied counseling unwanted SSA. TWO has no evidence that Bachmann therapy is harmful or ineffective.
Stupid MSNBC parroted the fiction that “barbarians” referred to gays when it obviously referred to adolescents.
Besen and TWO are frauds, plain and simple.
People can change attractions. Let them.
@ Elsa
Perhaps before you go off and accuse Wayne Besen of being a fraud, you might want to look a little further into the facts.
Marcus Bachmann has indeed denied counselling unwanted SSA at his clinic, if he hadn’t there wouldn’t have been much reason to go undercover to find out that he was providing it now would there?
And TWO has plenty of evidence by REAL doctors that reparative therapy is harmful and ineffective. If you would use Google for something other than finding gay blogs to spew your uneducated crap on; you would know that the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association and the American Medical Association are all in agreement that the few cases that have been adequately documented appear to have been largely unsuccessful. And also that so-called reparative therapy techniques – premised on the assumption that homosexuality is a form of psychopathology – appear to do much more harm than good. They are all a lot more qualified to speak to the subject than yourself or Marcus Bachmann.
And really, in your opinion is it any more acceptable to refer to adolescents as Barbarians instead of gays? If you think that then I hope to god you don’t have any children.
Marcus Bachmann is the fraud, he isn’t a qualified psychologist nor is he likely a heterosexual.
And yes some people CAN change their attractions, those people are called “bisexuals” not homosexuals and no one is trying to stop them. It’s Snake Oil Salesmen who lie about being Snake Oil Salesmen that we are trying to stop.
You need to inform yourself a little better before you start tossing unfounded accusations at Wayne and trying to defend Marcus Bachmann and his ilk.
“Marcus Bachmann has indeed denied counselling unwanted SSA at his clinic”
Show the evidence, if you can. There is none. How could anyone think that Bachmann’s clinic is not hetero-affirming? That’s stupid.
“Reparative therapy” is technically a specific type of therapy that few hetero-affirming therapists use. TWO has mis-represented it in order to call all SOCE “discredited”.
There are plenty of people who have successfully left the gay lifestyle and are happily non-gay. These people exist no matter what you say. It may not be easy but it’s not impossible. Sorry.
I am very familiar with the APA’s politically motivated decision to change its mind on SSA.
Etowncanuck said “And yes some people CAN change their attractions, those people are called “bisexuals” not homosexuals and no one is trying to stop them.”.
That is not true. We may be attracted to men at one time and women at another but we cannot choose to be attracted solely to one or the other. We don’t choose who we are attracted to, it just happens. Don’t confuse a bisexual person with an opposite sex mate for a heterosexual and don’t confuse a bisexual person with a same sex mate for gay. We remain attracted to both sexes regardless of who we are with, we cannot “choose” to change this.
Elsa/evil becky/omar Bachman most certainly did deny his clinic tries to change gays to straight. When asked if he did so he replied “That is a false statment.”
I’d find a link for you but I have a bug on my computer preventing most searches. This however was pointed out in one of the segments on TV that Wayne has posted on this site – go through them and you will find the proof. You won’t of course because you are not interested in reality preferring to push your lies instead.
Elsa/evilbecky/omar said “TWO has mis-represented it in order to call all SOCE “discredited”.
There are plenty of people who have successfully left the gay lifestyle and are happily non-gay. These people exist no matter what you say.”.
Your denial won’t change reality. This has been studied many times and there has never been a single proven case of a person changing sexual orientations from gay to straight. The vast majority of “ex-gays” will admit when pushed that they are still same sex attracted and that they’ve merely changed how they refer to themselves.
Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “I am very familiar with the APA’s politically motivated decision to change its mind on SSA.”.
Every major mental and medical health organization agrees that gayness is not an illness. Its not just the APA (who did a thorough scientific review and found no evidence that gayness was a pathology) you’re fighting.
Where is your proof that people can change Elsa? All these years and you child-murdering bigots have never been able to offer any evidence that doesn’t get caught with a male prostitute. Your entire idea that people can change is based on one shoddily performed case carried out through ritual abuse that only resulted in a gay man with so many psychological problems that before he even turned forty he successfully committed suicide on his second attempt to do so. You’re free to keep thinking that you’re hands aren’t covered in blood, but you’ll never convince anyone here of that, and you’re only making yourself look like a fool for trying.
Sorry Priya Lynn, I wrote too quickly as I was pissed off and in doing so didn’t really come across quite clearly about bisexuality. I didn’t mean to infer that it switched back and forth exclusively when I spoke of “change”. I hope I didn’t offend.
Ex-gay ministries I would have supported 20 years ago, long before Freddie Mercury died of AIDS and long before I was aware of him being gay. Idiots and inbreds like the Westboro Baptist Church I would have probably condoned back then. Why was all because being at the time a pubescent male in denial of transgenderism, I hated myself so much on the outside. I’m glad I never went down those avenues. I perhaps may have died like Kurt Cobain, whom I believe suffered from gender dysphoria himself, which may have led to his suicide.
No use debating this “elsa” charactor… these morons like “elsa” also don’t believe in evolution and science. These people will eventually will go by way of the dinosaur, thank god!
“People can change. Let them.”
Yes, by all means let them. Just don’t hide the truth from them:
(1) They have NO obligation whatever to change or to try to change. The only good reason for trying to change is that THEY want to, NOT because anyone else thinks that they should.
(2) Their chances of success are, at a generous estimate, about the same as their chances of winning the lottery.
(3) The attempt to change may be harmful. At best, if the attempt to change fails, as it probably will do, there will be no compensation for the money and the precious years of their life that they will have wasted. Those will be gone for ever.
elsa elsa Ante stupid
Elsa/evil Becky/Omar said “I am familiar with the “that is a false statement” quote. Unsurprisingly, the “statement” in question did not make it into the article so we can only guess what he was actually responding to.”.
Obviously you didn’t watch the clips Wayne posted as I suggested – no surprise you’ll do anything you can to avoid seeing that you’re wrong. They show the statment in “question” was “Marcus Bachmann’s clinic performs reparive therapy to change gays into heterosexuals.”
Esla/evil Becky/Omar said “But we do know that he immediately followed up with: “If someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that, but if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don’t have a problem with that.””.
And that statement doesn’t say he practices “reparitive” therapy – precisely because he denied doing so.
Elsa/Evil Becky/Omar said “And you all are also wrong about the “barbarians” quote. Surprise.”.
Bachman was asked about a gay teenager and said “Barbarians need to be educated” – no room for debate there, every rational person will agree you’re wrong.
Elsa/Evil Becky/Omar said “People can change. Let them.”.
False! Every major mental heatlh and medical organization agrees efforts to change orientation are ineffective and potentially harmful. Those who positively accept their orientation are better adjusted and happier than those who are not. It is evil to con gays into a lifetime of loneliness and unhappiness.
Great interview, Wayne! Congratulations to TWO, once again, for exposing the lies (including the lie told by Bachmann that he does not do this kind of counseling).
Now, when are these so-called respected medical and mental health organizations going to grow a spine and stop allowing these “counselors” (some of whom are licensed professional counselors) to practice this voodoo?
elsa, in addition to denying that his clinic practices “reparative therapy” he also takes federal funds to practise this ineffectual and dangerous quackery. Might I suggest instead of just typing random denials into this site you do a little work on the Google.
Also, even if he didn’t deny he uses this snake oil, the fact that he is using a therapy denounced by all reputable psychological associations and taking tax dollars to do so is a story.
Also, his wife (who has, basically, stated that she does whatever her husband tells her to) has spoken out against federal funds so it shows her, once again, to be a hypocrite.
Now why isn’t this a story?
“It is evil to con gays into a lifetime of loneliness and unhappiness.”
Yes, Priya, you sum it up very well there.
Last September, Mark Yarhouse published a book entitled “Homosexuality and the Christian: A Guide for Parents, Pastors, and Friends”. I haven’t read it – I have better ways to spend my money – but I have read the rave reviews on the Amazon website from a number of people who espouse the “conservative Christian” position and who praise the book for its compassionate [sic] approach. But one of the approving reviewers, a pastor, who described it as “A must read for Christians”, issued the following very revealing caveat:
“I do not recommend this book to those, especially young people, who are struggling personally with this issue. As the title says, it is for parents, pastors and friends. BECAUSE OF ITS BRUTAL HONESTY ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF CHANGE [emphasis added by me], the material needs to be filtered through the loving [sic] encouragement of those trying to help someone else.”
I will not waste words attempting to describe my opinion of that. In any case, I could not hope to do so with any approach to adequacy.
Well then Sharon/Elsa, I’m sure you’ll be perfectly willing to prove that by changing from straight to gay. We can name all sorts of negative consequences that result from obesity, but you child-murdering bigots can never name a negative consequence from being gay without lying out of your asses. If you’re so sure that “change is possible” than provide examples of people who actually have changed. We’re waiting.
Love reproduces after its own kind. GOD was very specific about homosexuality being harmful to mankind.it doesnt reproduce anything but death and lies thats why its called an abomination.there is a reason why no homosexual nation exists today.every civilization that has attemted to legitimize it was diminished or destroyed.Go check for yourself.
there is NO love in that lifestyle. no reproduction no LOVE.LOVE is NOT an emotion it is life, Hence,JESUS is LOVE and GOD is LOVE. GODS first command was “be fruitful multiply and replenish the earth”.homosexuality cannot accomplish that. if you cant reproduce you will die.
we all have issues before GOD but we cannot legislate our sins.carry your own cross
if you LOVE GOD the FATHER, then love HIS word and wisdom for He LOVES YOU.
if not,keep on letting satan decieve and use you,For he hates you and all mankind.
i am not a rightwinger. i vote democrat.
You’re a psycho bill. Every major mental health and medical association agrees that gayness is a natural and healthy variant in a minority of the population. It brings people together to love and support each other, making them happier and more productive thus benefiting them and society.
Up to 1/3 of same sex couples have children so you are simply wrong when you claim they don’t reproduce, not that the mere lack of reproduction means there is anything wrong with a person – those who reproduce die just as surely as those who do not.
Every civilization that has ever oppressed gayness has been diminished or destroyed. The roman empire didn’t fall until christians took it over and began persecuting gays.
Evil people like you have bastardized the meaning of love, you don’t know what love is, you are consumed by hatred.
Your god eternally tortures people for thought “crimes”, eternally tortures people for harmless actions. Your god has nothing to do with love, your god is all about hate.
There aren’t any “homosexual nations” because gay people have always been a consistent portion of every population. You have to be some kind of ALL-CAPS TYPING IDIOT to believe that somehow gay people in this country want this to be an all-gay nation or something.
Also, your contention that you have to make babies in order to experience love is, um, bizarre. Makes me feel sorry for you, as the quality of love in your life has apparently been poor.
Hey big bill, Great job on the parody! But you really need to remember Poe’s Law, and put a smiley face at the end, otherwise some people will think you are serious.
And by the way, is your name, big bill, intended to convey the message that you’re “a top?” I know it’s a long-shot, but did you choose the name after reading about the recent study showing that men with highly impressive attributes are more likely to be “tops?”
Once again, congrats on the parody! It made my day.
Hey, everybody! I sure do enjoy having four sides and being colored blue. Talk to you later!
Sincerely yours,
The Red Triangle
I would seriously like to know why people feel compelled to make statements saying one thing and then claiming to be something else. I can only guess it is because they feel they need to create some false impression of impartiality.
i aint trying to convert anyone.but really now, science is nothing more than man’s feeble attempt to imitate GOD’s magnificence.homosexuality will NEVER be the EQUAL of Heterosexuality because it cannot create LIFE. without LIFE there is no LOVE.
primary evidence: Every homosexual was created by a heterosexual union.hmm….is that truth?
now i understand resistance to the truth. shoot i have my own issues to deal with. i personally dont care what you do.
no reproduction only makes it an elaborate form of masturbation.i get it.
big bill, submit proof of the existence of your gawd, please.
also, as jesus said.
the proof is in your heart. go ahead Sincerely in your heart ask for Jesus to reveal himself to you . you dont know me but your heart burns every time you hear his Name. thats the Truth of LOVE. GO and Get the Real real LOVE of CHRIST JESUS.it is freely given.Yes, Jesus LOVES YOU personally.
“no reproduction no LOVE” – in the strictest sense, I could interpret this as couples don’t love each other until they have children.
It’s nice to know that couples who chose not to have children, couples who can’t have children, women who marry past menopause, and even adoptive couples don’t love each other….because they can’t reproduce or haven’t reproduced.
Weigh your words carefully, Bill.
priya lynn you are lying before GOD and man.the homosexual act cannot not reproduce. all life is produced by hetero sexual activity.every time you see a child it is evidence of hetero sexual activity. that homosexual abandoned homosexuality and engaged in hetero sexual activity to produce a child.
wait! hold up! a CHOICE was made.you just proved that homosexuality can be chosen.hmm…
equation of Life:seed + womb= LIFE
seed + seed= 0
womb + womb= 0
if you really desire to know TRUTH ask GOD.mankind is full of their own desires (including myself) to be reliable sources of truth. that is why i rely on GODS word.GOD cannot lie whatever HE says is.
PEACE and LOVE to all who will receive it.
If homosexuality is a choice, then heterosexuality must be as well. Bill, when did you choose to be a heterosexual? When did you make a conscious, deliberate, decision to be straight?
If homosexuality is a choice, then you COULD wake up tomorrow morning and choose to be both attracted to men AND choose to have sex with them. (There is a difference between the two; I could be attracted to men, feelings-wise, but still have sex, the physical act, with women – without being emotionally attracted to women at all!)
There are babies born with male DNA, but (external) female genitalia, no internal female organs at all. (Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.) Which sex should these people marry when they grow up, Bill? Depending on who you classify them, either way it would be a same-sex marriage. Oh, but by your definition above, these people can’t possibly love, since they can’t reproduce, and therefore shouldn’t want or be able to get married. (What do you do about the AIS people who are already married? Make them divorce?)
When Christianity can begin to tackle and answer questions like this, THEN I will consider becoming a Christian. The only responses I’ve had so far from Christians are to tell me I shouldn’t think about these things (like if I don’t think about, AIS people will cease to exist) OR that I have a reprobate mind.
My heart burns every time I hear Jesus’ name? I must be hearing his name every time I eat spicy food. Big bill, you say a lot of things that make no sense.
Your definition of science is wrong. Science is about UNDERSTANDING the world around us. You call it imitation because you accept “god did it” as an explanation for anything.
The heart is a muscle that pumps blood. The sensory ability you are assigning it does not exist. Feelings are constructs of the mind but you don’t want to tell people to start using their minds because thinking is anathema to religion.
big bill (projecting much?) I know a LOT of people who have done what you said and come up with a big “nope…I dont sense that…I am staying Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/Agnostic” or even “Wow…I dont believe that any more based on the “look in your heart argument” and became agnostic/Muslim, etc.
Your point is illrelevant.
so is your point about about babies are made.
Families are made lots of ways, adoption (be it by female/male couples that are married, male/male couples that are married, female/female couples that are married, unmarried couples of all of the above, and very often, just by indivduals. All of these arrangements make a family…and all families deserve the right to the protections of marriage, even with the mess heterosexuals have largely made of it, and the decision a lot of heterosexuals now make not to enter into it and enjoy its protections for their families.
There are BI sexuals also you know, duh. Priya neither lied before man, or your understanding of God (which if memory serves, Priya does not even believe exists, and which you CANNOT prove does, as I pointed out above), so….why are you wasting the valuable time you have on this planet working to take away peoples rights and hurt our families? There is a famine in Africa, and millions could die. There are child prostitutes on the streets of our cities, and very few are helping them. There are elderly shut ins who need food, love and support.
But…you have time, OH SO GREAT CHRISTIAN THAT YOU ARE, to post here a lot of unscientific crap that we can and do easily shoot down…while the children are dying, and living in fear of their pimps and johns, and the elderly are so often alone and in need of help.
Before you go on with your disproven bad science, your LOUSY theology (there are better churches than yours that rightfully accept and ordain Gay people) and arrogant attitude, maybe you better stand back and think about this question;
God “Big Bill, did you feed my lambs, and help the old and weak, or did you spend your energy working to make sure other people did not get their rights, were exposed to disproven and dangerous ‘reparative therapy’ all the while ignoring the teaching of the better churches that were warning you to accept the gay people around you?”
If you are right about your understanding of God, you will have to answer that question someday.
If you are wrong and there is no God, then you will have spent your lifes energy hurting people.
In short, as you are acting now, you cannot win.
think about that, grow up, and be a man…not a bad science spounting fundy. There are enough of those in the world in Iran.
you are resisting the LOVE. the burning in your heart is not a physical sensation that would be heartburn.it is in your spiritual being.
the key word in my statement is SINCERE. i wasnt even looking for Jesus and He found ME.
by the way i havent condemned or even attempted to judge anyone. every thing ive written to you is about LIFE avd LOVE.
Jesus CHRIST is passionately in LOVE for you. and desires to show you.open the door of your heart to HIM, dont shut the door. Even satan bows down before JESUS CHRIST and Knows that JESUS is LORD!
JESUS knows all about you, your struggles etc.HE is the only one that loves you unconditionally.
Brother GENE in your heart you know GOD is real. HE LOVES YOU very MUCH.get with JESUS not man. you know you want THAT LOVE.
by the way, a REAL JESUS man will never seek to harm you or hate you. We have been Given the POWER to LOVE FREELY, Jesus men can rock and roll with anyone and enjoy everyone joyfully.
if we talk with it is because of this LOVE POWER.
you aint man enough to talk to JESUS, cuz
you aint ever gonna be a man.Take the challenge.
how you gonna hurt someone by loving them?
iranians hate Jesus men just like you do. yall are on the same side to Jesus men.
you must be a teabagger cause you all have the same rhetoric.
as always PEACE AND LOVE to all that receive it.
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