FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: John Becker, Director of Communications & Development
Phone: 920-265-6023
Email: john@truthwinsout.org
Truth Wins Out Denounces Former Archbishop of Canterbury For Defending ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy
Archbishop Must Apologize Immediately for Embracing ‘Ex-Gay’ Lies, Says TWO
Burlington, Vt. — Truth Wins Out denounced Lord Carey, former Archbishop of Canterbury, today for signing a letter in support of Lesley Pilkington, a British “Christian” psychotherapist suspended for professional malpractice after she was caught offering ex-gay therapy to an undercover journalist.
The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy unanimously ruled last May that Pilkington acted recklessly, disrespectfully, dogmatically and unprofessionally. The BACP suspended her accreditation and threatened to revoke it entirely if she failed to complete “extensive training and professional development.” Yesterday, Lord Carey and several other clerics issued a letter to the BACP defending Pilkington, saying that ex-gay therapy “does not produce harm.”
“Lord Carey’s defense of so-called ‘ex-gay therapy’ is simply appalling,” said Wayne Besen, Executive Director of Truth Wins Out. “The ‘pray away the gay’ lie has been denounced by every major organization of medical and mental health professionals, including the Royal College of Psychiatrists, because the truth is that it doesn’t work and actually harms people. If Carey would like to meet survivors who were gravely harmed by ‘ex-gay’ therapy we would be more than happy to arrange such a meeting.”
“Whether Lord Carey’s embrace of discredited ex-gay propaganda was intentional or simply ignorant, we are astonished by the lack of respect it shows to LGBT Anglicans,” added John Becker, TWO’s Director of Communications & Development. “The former archbishop should apologize immediately and recant his dangerous words before they cause any more LGBT people to hate or hurt themselves.”
The letter alleges that reparative therapy “does not produce harm despite the Royal College of Psychiatrists and others maintaining the contrary” and that “people who seek, freely, to resolve unwanted same-sex attractions hold the moral right to receive professional assistance.”
“This attempt to claim the moral high ground is utterly absurd,” said Becker. “None of these clerics have a shred of medical or psychiatric training, and the idea that they’re even remotely qualified to overrule scientific consensus is ridiculous on its face. Lies told in the name of God are still lies.”
“Far from being mainstream, Lord Carey’s views are extreme,” added Besen. “Instead of parroting discredited ex-gay talking points, the former archbishop should bring his outmoded beliefs into the 21st century and recognize that LGBT people are fine just the way they are.”
Truth Wins Out (TWO) is a nonprofit that fights anti-LGBT religious extremism. TWO specializes in turning information into action by organizing, advocating and fighting for LGBT equality.
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Which part of Carey’s behavior is most galling? It’s an anti-gay bully’s taunt, for him to talk about somebody having “unwanted” same-sex attractions. But beyond that — as if — because a gay individual says they don’t want to be gay — they can actually do anything to change their orientation. As if the quackery were any less quackery because the victim says they want the alleged results of it. Why don’t they do penis enlargement while they’re at it.
This is actually quite suprising to me as a member of the COE. I knew that the official stance was still cautious over gay rights in theory, but in the last few years it seems to have become a lot more supportive “on the ground” and unofficially. many Revs. are openly supportive. I thought they’d moved on from “ex gay” years ago, especially since it was never a big idea in Britain and quite frankly US style evangelism that created Exodus etc could not be farther from the Church that Carey lead.
Plus the
The current archbishop of Canterbury, Rowen Williams, has been more supportive of lgbt equality in private than in his public utterances, which have been disappointing since he’s terrified of schism with what they call the Southern Cone (places like Africa). I just call them cone-heads. I’m with the group who thinks we should just ‘get a divorce’ and let the bigots go their own way. The American archbishop Kathryn Jeffords Shori has been totally supportive of equality and full inclusion of lgbt people in the Episcopal Church. She’s also a Marine Biologist, so she can think with both sides of her brain, unlike lord carey.
Pay no attention to Carey, he’s always been a dickhead.
This article cannot be serious. If it is then the expressed hysteria and moral indignation raised to fever pitch are clear proof that the condition called homosexuality results in brain irritations before leading onto to more serious physical pathologies. Sodomy, sado- masochism and all the other exotic sexual activities practised by LGBTs do not lead to freedom but to bondage and duhumanisation.
How dreadful are the curses which the gay condition has on those who are enslaved to it! Besides the militant frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful evolutionary fatalism. The effects are increasingly apparent in many countries. The rise in sexual violence, promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, mental instability, suicidal tendencies, drug taking, a threat to the economy, a hatred of truth, justice and righteousness, a threat to freedom of speech, freedom of conscience and thought itself, a terrible threat to children, and a threat to marriage and the family exist wherever the followers of the prophets of Cultural Marxism, like Gramsci, Lukacs, Marcuse, Horkheimer and Alfred Kinsey rule or live.
A degraded and perverted sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity, sanctity and humanity. The fact that with gayness, queerness, strangeness – whatever- every woman becomes a second class citizen, simply a machine for bearing children, must delay the final extinction of sado – masochism, bondage and sexual slavery, until gay perversion has ceased have its terrible hold on men .
Individual men afflicted with this condition may show splendid qualities. Many become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die in the cause of diversity and gay affirmation, but the influence of Frankfurt School and its cultural Marxist ideology paralyses the personal and social development of those who follow it.
Apart from Islam, no stronger retrograde force exists in the world.
Far from being moribund, gayness is a militant and proselytising ideology. It has already spread throughout Britain and other western nations, raising strutting and cavorting followers at every gay pride parade. No technology, no reasoned debates, no appeal to common sense, or health and safety can stop this cancer eating away at the heart of our nation Just as ancient Greece and Rome vainly struggled with inner moral decay so we too are condemned to fall, unless by a supreme recovery of moral courage and martial vigour we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden times.
David–you’re an idiot. No one here is enslaved by being gay. You, on the other hand, are enslaved by your unquestioning feality to ancient desert writings. Your attempt to sound intellectual just makes you seem like a blowhard in addition to being ignorant.
David said “The fact that with gayness, queerness, strangeness – whatever- every woman becomes a second class citizen, simply a machine for bearing children,”.
That line summed up the idiocy of your entire post. It is religion and conservatism that has made women second class citizens, the slave to her husband. It is religion and conservatism that has demanded women have no role beyond bearing children. It is feminism and gayness that has rejected the patriarchy of bigots like you and brought women the equality that is our birthright. Typical of hateful bigots you accuse the good people of the wrongdoings you yourself are guilty of.
Daniel and Priya Lynn, calm down my dears.
You obviously believe that the gays have a blue pinkprint for a new world order, a pink utopia of absolute liberation, free from the oppressive and male dominated family unit which you believe should be consigned to the Natural History Museum.
Allow Peter Tatchell , perhaps the most iconic gay man in Britain to speak for you. In an article entitled, ‘Beyond Equality’, he argues that lesbian and gay freedom involves more than mere equality.
“We should reject a simplistic law reform agenda, and adopt a queer politic that celebrates sexual difference, opposes both assimilationism and separatism, seeks social transformation, and affirms that everyone is potentially queer.” He then says further on: “Lesbian and gay people (homosexual) help make a more heterogeneous and interesting society. That’s a good thing. There is nothing great about social homogeneity. It’s boring and results in social stultification and sclerosis. …… In many ways, our transcending of heterosexual mores is a positive and immensely liberating experience. Compared with most straights, queers tend to be more sexually adventurous with a wider repertoire of sexual behaviour, less bound by the strictures of traditional morality, and more experimental in terms of relationships. We don’t need a marriage certificate to validate our partnerships,……. In all these senses, the fact that homosexuals are different from heterosexuals is a real virtue that we should all be proud to shout about.”
Listen again in to how Peter Tatchell criticises the gay lobby for wanting to assimilate and conform to the values and morality of the straight community, in another article of the same title:
“The dominant gay agenda is now equal rights and law reform, rather than gay emancipation and the transformation of society. That political retreat represents a massive loss of imagination, confidence, and ethical vision.
Equality is important, but it has its limitations. It isn’t the panacea that many claim. Equal rights for lesbians and gay men inevitably means parity on straight terms, within a pre-existing framework of values, laws and institutions. These have been devised by and for the heterosexual majority. Equality within their system involves conformity to their rules. This is a recipe for incorporation, not liberation.
Although getting rid of homophobic discrimination is a laudable aim, it doesn’t go far enough. Ending anti-gay bias will not resolve all the problems faced by lesbian and gay people. Some of our difficulties arise not from homophobia, but from the more general eroto-phobic and sex-negative nature of contemporary culture (which also harms heterosexuals). These destructive puritanical attitudes are evident in the censorship of sexual imagery, the inadequacy of sex education lessons, and the criminalisation of sex workers and consensual sadomasochistic relationships.
We get equality, but at a price. The cost to our community is the surrender of our unique, distinctive queer identity. The unwritten social contract at the heart of law reform is that lesbians and gays will behave respectably and comply with the heterosexual moral agenda. No more cruising, orgies or sadomasochism! In return, the “good gays” are rewarded with equal treatment. Meanwhile, all the sex-repressive social structures, institutions and value systems remain intact, and the “bad gays” remain sexual outlaws. This nouveau gay reformism involves the abandonment of any critical perspective on straight culture. In place of a healthy scepticism towards heterosexual morality, it substitutes naive acquiescence…..
http://newhumanist.org.uk/1263/beyond-equality
So Daniel and Priya Lynn, what do you get when you smash all the barriers to getting what you want when you want, apart from an explosion of pornography, prostitution, cruising, dogging, orgies, sado- masochism, bug chasing, giving the gift, paedophilia, incest, bestiality, necrophilia and cannibalism? Or are you one of those repressed and eroto – phobic queers wanting to retain a remnant of Neanderthal morality upon which Tatchell pours scorn and contempt?
Ernst Roehm who enabled Hitler to get to power was a brutal homosexual who formed the storm troopers that eventually became the SS. Hitler had to have Roehm put down because he had become a threat to his own power base – nothing to do with homophobia. The 15000 gay men who died in concentration camps were effiminate types who did not fit the pattern of the macho homosexual. And if acccording to Kinsey 10% of the population are gay and the population of Germany at the time was 60 million where were the rest of the 6 million queers, if they were not in the SS itself? The condition of homosexuality has become a fascist/marxist tool for destroying the west, just as it has done so effectively with so many other civilisations in history.
Wow, what a blatant display of twisting history to suit your own anti-Gay agenda, eh David Skinner? I read your nonsense posts and just laughed. Seriously.
Oh David, how funny.
“The 15000 gay men who died in concentration camps were effiminate types who did not fit the pattern of the macho homosexual.”
I thought you were a troll, but turns out you are a historian with access to hitherto unseen records from Dachau, regarding categorisation of prisoners with the pink triangle”.
Having said that, can you just confirm that you are not a hirsute creature who lives in a cave? I’d like to get the troll question out of the way.
David must be a big fan of Scott Lively, the creepiest of the creepy creeps leading the charge in the anti-gay crusade. Or, maybe David IS Scott Lively.
Bigotry is a lot like poison ivy – you just can’t stop scratching it. Comments like David’s are one of the ways of scratching it. And the more you scratch it, the more it itches – maybe that’s why so many comments from bigots are so long-winded and repetitive.
The fact that so many compulsively bigoted bullying busybodies seek out this website shows once again that Truth Wins Out is doing lots of things right. Looks like it’s time to send another donation.
Good point Richard. The fact the trolls are coming here, and not winning the argument (which seems to surprise them) is intersting. But, they have to go somewhere. They “internet Cahones”. They KNOW that they
1) would get a societal slapdown if they tried to say 1/10th of the crap they spread in a real world/person to person or workplace/education, coffee with the neighbors type situation
2) Not to many people in the developed world (or even in the parts of the developing world that have an viable future like China, India and Brasil) care to listen to their crap.
And, David and those like him, know this.
It must be so, so frustrating.
:)
While “David” is parroting some of Dr. Lively’s discredited theories in his posts — he is certainly not Scott Lively. I have had the pleasure of a fairly intensive email discussion with Dr. Lively – which continued until he suddenly announced that I couldn’t use what he was saying in publication. (I had been appending an announcement to each email saying that both of us retained the right to use the material for publication – but whether its worth fighting about legally, eh…)
In any event, Dr. Lively is, while utterly wrong on nearly everything to do with homosexuality, in my opinion – within the confines of what he believes, thoughtful, respectful when he writes, and interested in actual discussion. I believe he is partially responsible for the horrible Ugandan legislation and I fear that there may have been or may be deaths because of him – but I genuinely also believe that he, believe it or not, means well. He simply doesn’t understand and won’t allow himself to understand. If you are an evangelical the reality of what homosexuality is terrifies, we all need to remember that. Homosexuality is not a choice and it is almost certainly genetic – certainly preborn. To an evangelical that is beyond the pale, as it indicates either that the Bible has error in it (which I believe as a non-evangelical), or that God actually creates people to torture and harm. Scott Lively is a devoted evangelical, and yes, he does us harm – real harm – but, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I fear that Scott Lively proves that. Nevertheless, he is courteous, well spoken, and respectful when he discusses things with you (at least he was with me).
Mr. Skinner on the other hand thinks he’s being clever, uses what he thinks is humor but is actually brittle nastiness, and attempts through camp insinuations and nelly quotes to establish the upper hand.
I may heartily disagree with Dr. Lively. I may think that he verges on being a murderer of gay people, and I have told him that directly as I recall — but of the two, I would take him over David Skinner any day.
Regards,
Reyn
THE GAY GENE HOAX
Indeed it is refreshing when we hear gay activists, like Peter Tatchell saying the same thing. In “Spiked” Tuesday 24th June 2008 he says.
“Homosexuality: it isn’t natural. Ignore those researchers who claim to have discovered a ‘gay gene.’ Gay desire is not genetically determined.”
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/5375/
The avant- garde of Gay Liberation Front believe that the human rights of gays are absolute. Though taking offence at having to make any kind of justification or apology for their tastes and inclination, it suits them to leave us tying ourselves in knots over the origin of gayness. It is a debate that they left long ago. The gay activist, the Australian, Dr Graham Willett says,
“I think the idea that sexuality is genetic is crap. There is absolutely no evidence for it at the moment, and I think it is unhealthy that people want to embrace this idea. It does reflect a desire to say, ‘it’s not our fault’, as a way of deflecting our critics. We have achieved what we have achieved by defiance, not by concessions. I think we should be recruiting people to homosexuality. It’s a great lifestyle and something everybody should have the right to experience. If you believe it’s genetic, how are you going to make the effort?” Or as he put it elsewhere: “On the question of recruiting to homosexuality – well, of course, I am in favour of this. I believe homosexuality to be a perfectly valid lifestyle choice. . . . I am naturally keen to encourage people to participate in [the gay lifestyle].”
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/15/homosexual-honesty/
Tatchell in his article “Beyond Equality,” explicitly states that gayness is an ideology:
“queer politics challenges the heterocentric view that exclusive heterosexuality is somehow natural and eternal, and that lesbian and gay sexuality is inevitably destined to remain a minority sexual orientation. It sees sexuality as being primarily a social construction, rather than a biological given.
Who we are attracted to largely derives from a combination of social experience and ideology. In other words, everyone is born with the potential to be queer. Exclusive heterosexuality is mainly the result of a socially-encouraged repression of same-sex desire. In a society where there were no pressures or privileges associated with being straight, a lot more people would be queer or bisexual. Lesbian and gay attraction would cease to be a minority sexual orientation and become something that almost everyone would experience.”
http://www.petertatchell.net/lgbt_rights/equality_not_enough/beyond_equality.htm
So there you have it. A black person is black whether awake or asleep; alive or dead. A person afflicted with a condition called homosexuality is only homosexual when conscious or dreaming homosexual dreams. When unconscious or dead they are just like anybody else apart perhaps from being riddled with AIDS, STIs and other diseases. But I have a suspicion the truth of this statement will have no effect on those who are heedless of their own earthly or eternal destination.
David said “Allow Peter Tatchell , perhaps the most iconic gay man in Britain to speak for you.”.
Okay, and you let the devout christian Hitler speak for you.
David said “So Daniel and Priya Lynn, what do you get when you smash all the barriers to getting what you want when you want, apart from an explosion of pornography, prostitution, cruising, dogging, orgies, sado- masochism, bug chasing, giving the gift, paedophilia, incest, bestiality, necrophilia and cannibalism?”.
I have everything I could possibly want and none of those things goes with it. I have a profound happiness whereas any sort of happiness obviously eludes you, hence your need to vainly attept to pump yourself up by demonizing harmless innocent people. No rational person believes your lies and as more and more of the population gets to know their wonderful gay neighbours, relatives, and friends you are losing your war on justice and fairness. Your legacy will be to be remembered as the spittle flecked, wild eyed despicable bigot you are.
The FBI gave the standard profile of a serial killer, He is a person with few friends. He became much more religious just before he started murdering people. After reading all the available studies I could find and studying all the articles in the newspapers for over 30 years, I find what is most outstanding is Serial killers were sexually inhibited by their strong religious upbringing.
Nearly all serial killers are very devout men who were raised by members of Pentecostal sects, fundamentalist Catholics or were ‘hard-shell’ Baptists and Methodists.”
Studies after study show serial killers are a product of this environment, not genetics.
You can find much information on serial killers being sexually inhibited and there views on sex and religion at http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/what/whatlust.htm
“The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was – including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It’s time to admit something. Fascism isn’t something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is – in part, at least – a gay thing, and it’s time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.”
I didn’t say that. It was Johann Hari, gay, British journalist. Again it is a marvel when truth comes from the horse’s mouth!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html
How dreadful are the curses which the gay condition has on those who are enslaved to it! Besides the militant frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog. Far from being moribund, gayness is a militant and proselytising ideology. It has already spread throughout Britain and other western nations, raising strutting and cavorting followers at every gay pride parade. No technology, no reasoned debates, no appeal to common sense, or health and safety can stop this cancer eating away at the heart of our nations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng
Just a point of correction I am not a homophobe. I claim no homophobe gene; I was not born like it; I have choice and am I not deterministically evolved. Neither am I a bigot- someone who is narrow- minded and prejudiced and whose values and morality are based upon nothing more than subjectivity, tradition and culture.
Whereas judging by some of the other responses there is plenty of real genetic phobia here: the irrational hatred and fear of truth,light,reason, purity, holiness and God and life itself.
Rape victims Of Pedophile Priests Are “Pitiful Malcontents” Says Catholic League
The rape victims of the Catholic Church’s pedophile priests are “professional victims,” and ”a pitiful bunch of malcontents” unable to move on, according to Bill Donohue, the head of the Catholic League.
Today, in response to this weekend’s “10th Anniversary Celebration & Conference: Confronting the Crimes & Cover-up of Sexual Abuse by the Boston Clergy,” the Catholic League’s Bill Donohue stated,
A whopping 75 people turned out for the conference, 25 of whom were the speakers. How embarrassing. It’s clear that the professional victims’ lobby is spent. Everyone else has moved on, but those who have an ideological, emotional or financial interest in continuing this saga cannot let go. What a pitiful bunch of malcontents.
This a good sign. Catholics are talking about the announcement that Archbishop Timothy Dolan and Archbishop Edwin O’Brien will become Cardinal Dolan and Cardinal O’Brien next month—they’re not interested in wallowing in negativity.
The above image accompanied Donohue’s statement on the Catholic League’s website.
There are untold numbers of victims of Church rape, but at least 11,000 in the United States alone, according to a report sponsored by the Church itself, not to mention victims in many other countries around the world. Donohue, who annually publishes an ad in support of pedophile priests in The New York Times, regularly lambasts the victims of the Catholic Church’s pedophile priests, has called one victims’ group, SNAP, a “phony victims’ group.”
In the past, Donohue has said, falsely, that priests who rape young boys aren’t pedophiles, rather, they are gay, claimed that Lady Gaga wants to get raped, blamed The Gays for the Vatican’s priest pedophilia problem, called AIDS a “self-inflicted wound.”
David said ““The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was – including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It’s time to admit something. Fascism isn’t something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is – in part, at least – a gay thing, and it’s time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.”
I didn’t say that. It was Johann Hari, gay, British journalist. Again it is a marvel when truth comes from the horse’s mouth!”.
————————-
In the same article Johann Hari also said “Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has a sensitive and intriguing explanation. “There are many reasons for this kind of thing,” he says. “Some of them are in denial. They are going for hyper-masculinity, the most extreme possible way of being a man. It’s a way of ostentatiously rejecting the perceived effeminacy of the homosexual ‘Other’. These troubled men have a simple belief in their minds: ‘Straight men are tough. Queers are weak. Therefore if I’m tough I can’t be queer.’ It’s a desperate way of proving their manhood.”
‘Searchlight’ magazine – the bible of the British anti-fascist movement, with moles in every major far-right organisation – offers an alternative explanation. “Generally condemned by a society that continues to be largely hostile to gays, some men may find refuge and a new power status in the far right,” one of their writers has explained. “Through adherence to the politics espoused by fascist groups, a new identity emerges – one where they aren’t outcasts, because they are White Men, superior to everyone else. They render the gay part of their identity invisible – or reject the socially less acceptable parts, like being feminine – while vaunting what they see as superior.”.”.
Hence according to David’s hero Hari himself the reason why some gays are evil is not because they are gay but because they seek to reject and hide their gayness and gain the acceptance of an anti-gay society. It is the demonization of gays by people like David that cause evil, not gayness itself.
@David Skinner
I suspect your attack on the idea of homosexuality, at least for males, being genetic is an indirect answer to me – since I mentioned genetics.
It’s very nice that you can quote or misquote various people, including the most extreme homosexual activist in England. That doesn’t and cannot change reality one shred.
Homosexuality is at the very least inborn, determined prior to birth — and since we know that homosexuality is controllable genetically in some lower animals, there is no reason other than fear to attempt to categorically foreclose the possibility that it may be, in fact, genetic — particularly considering the number of characteristics that are positively statistically associated with it that are known to be genetic.
I suggest that given the reckless nature of your attacks – no matter whether you think you are a bigot or not, you are acting as one. If you claim to be Christian, may I suggest some prayer about your approach? You may be surprised what Lord Christ and the “Holy” Spirit will tell you.
Regards,
Reyn
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus4.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus6.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus7.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus3.htm
and for anyone who doesn’t fully understand the difference in views between the polls, here you go:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe.htm
@David Skinner
I suggest starting with the truth Mr. Skinner. You seem well informed so I have to assume that you know when you are telling an untruth. Like the one you tell in talking to Priya above.
Start with this, and move on to other substantive research, rather than assuming that you can spew half-truths, and outright lies and have people believe you or be even a tiny bit influenced by the conclusions you draw based on said failed information.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chil.htm
Regards,
Reyn
@ David
Hari has been exposed to be a self aggrandising plagiarist:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/sep/14/johann-hari-apologises-orwell-prize
And the vast majority of child abuse is not carried out by homosexuals. ALL is carried out by paedophiles. If they were gay, they would seek out consenting adults. They do not. Their ‘relationships’ are not centred around love, trust and understanding, but around sickening abuse and dominance, a feeling of power for the powereless, of subjugation.
Much akin to organised religion.
You also said the following:
“gayness is a militant and proselytising ideology. It has already spread throughout Britain and other western nations, raising strutting and cavorting followers at every gay pride parade. No technology, no reasoned debates, no appeal to common sense, or health and safety can stop this cancer eating away at the heart of our nations”
I’ve heard this kind of alarmist tripe many a time before, but no-one has yet stipulated exactly how equality for gay people will mean the destruction of western civilisation.
Would you care to elaborate?
(and if your answer contains some sort of ‘punishment from god’ rhetoric, it is immediately discounted. I am after the literal processes behind this supposed collapse. If you are unable to provide this, then I suggest you f**k off, and do not darken these doors again.)
Reyn, Let me first of all say “Religious Tolerance” tolerates too much me thinks. My advise to you would be to read the Bible and not self -serving interpretations from liberal theologians.
Now, I do not need to tell you that the homosexual as some kind of Darwinian, evolutionary being was the invention of 19th century perverts, who dressed up the condition with fancy pseudo- scientific nomenclatures: homosexual and heterosexual. They tried to find some genetic/psychological/biological cause which would give legitimacy to “caring”, “stable”, “loving,” gay relationships far removed from paedophilia, prostitution and adultery. Jesus Christ never spoke about homosexuality but neither did he about paedophilia, incest, sado- masochism, drug taking or speeding. You see these were unheard of in the close, Jewish society in which he lived which was under threat from Roman and Greek culture. The Jews of that time would have worked doubly hard to separate themselves from these gentiles. It was only when Paul moved out of that culture to Greece and converts were coming Corinth, bringing with them homosexuality, incest, and all the rest of it, that it is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6. He actually says ” such were some of you,” something which he would never have had to say to a Jew.
As I have explained above, Peter Tatchell does not believe in a gay gene and neither does he believe in a straight gene. He sees that we are all capable of becoming whatever we want – polysexual. I agree with him. There but by the grace God I am capable of all manner of wickedness.
In case you think that the sin of Sodom was inhospitality, not having regard for the poor, or having bad breath, allow me to disabuse you of that idea.
2Peter2: 4- 22 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ………………. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: ………… For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Jude : 7- 18 :Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities………. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Now if you wish to give yourself a little homework you will discover that the terms “hetero” and “homo” have been incorrectly used for over a hundred years. They have been used back to front. Using the correct Greek translation of “homo” it is the straight section of society,who are homogeneous:of the same kind; of mankind; complementary; whole;complete; stable; all of a piece. Whilst it is the queer, gay, whatever, section who are in fact “heterogeneous:” queer, strange, foreign,mixed,inconsistent – in two words: “polysexually perverted.” In fact anything outside the marriage of one man, one woman for life. Leviticus 22 has a long list of them of which homosexuality is just one of the perversions.
Judges 19: 22- 25
‘While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.” The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.” But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.’
Romans1 24-30
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
No doubt you will still be saying but none of this describes, close stable gay relationships. Well I have to say to you that Bible says all of us have sinned and there is none that is good apart from God. Jeremiah speaks of the human heart as being desperately wicked and David in Psalm 51 speaks of himself as having being born sinful from the time he was created in his mother’s womb. Homoseuality is a denial of God’s creation in that He created male and female and that woman was created from the man and then reunited to him to create “mankind.” There are no homosexual or gay plants. They are male and female only. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death. Read Psalm 51
So, nothing is wrong with offering your daughter to be gang raped, David?
Christian values, ladies and gentlemen.
David, isn’t that the story where Lot offered up his virgin daughters to the mob? Yeah, that’s a great story.
Oh,it turns out you’re a bible thumper. That makes it all better.
Lovely passage in judges. Heterosexual rape for you to blame on gay people. Tres sick, honey.
Ignore the troll, folks. nothing to see here.
Dear of deary me, do I have teach you everything? Now come close and listen every so carefully. Are you sitting comfortably, then I will begin: THE BIBLE DESCRIBES HUMAN NATURE AS IT IS – WARTS AND ALL. jUST BECAUSE (AS IN THE REFERENCE ABOVE FROM JUDGES) THE BEHAVIOUR OF BENJAMINITES FROM THE TOWN GIBEAH (THIS IS NOT SODOM BUT ANOTHER TOWN)ARE DESCRIBED ACCURATELY DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BIBLE IS SAYING THAT THIS IS GOOD BEHAVIOUR. FAR FROM IT. THEY PAID A TERRIBLE PRICE FOR THIER WICKEDNESS. AND YES I AM GLAD YOU SPOTTED HOW IN BOTH CASES, WITH SODOM AND GIBEAH, WHEN A SOCIETY BECOMES DOMINATED WITH POLYSEXUAL PERVERTS, ESPECIALLY HOMOSEXULS, WOMEN COUNT FOR NOTHING. WELL SPOTTED, SIR.
Actually that is another person. If I remember correctly, this was what started a lot of bloody infighting within ancient Israel. The old guy in question did pull a Lot and offered up another human being to be raped though.
David, you are right about one thing–you are dreary.
No, you don’t have to teach us everything. you have nothing to teach anyone, and so much to learn yourself. Please go away and stop wasting valuable electrons.
David, you have nothing to teach – we’ve all heard the same garbage over and over and OVER again – it’s all hyperbole, sophistry and ‘I think Gays are yucky but I’ll use the Bible to give my bigotry some legitimacy’.
Oh dear. David’s been reduced to spewing bible verses as though that has any legitimacy and he’s been reduced to typing in all caps as though by making his typing bigger than ours it makes it better, louder, and more correct.
David, the only people who feel a need to exclaim that they are not homophobes and bigots are homophobic bigots.
David screamed “WHEN A SOCIETY BECOMES DOMINATED WITH POLYSEXUAL PERVERTS, ESPECIALLY HOMOSEXULS, WOMEN COUNT FOR NOTHING”.
David, how do you explain that your opinion is the opposite of the reality that the most religious countries are the ones that oppress women the most and the most gay tolerant countries are the ones where women have the greatest freedom and equality?
Could it be that you’ll make up any lie you can think of to blame gays for what people like you are responsible for?
David, you claim that women were poorly treated in Sodom because it accepted gayness. How do you explain that the man who offered up his daughters to be raped (your example of the maltreatment of women) was your god’s holy one and spared from destruction? Your god rewarded the abuse of women, how do you explain that?
Polly Sexualpervert wants a cracker. (that would be a cool drag name too)
Polly, aka dabid, IS a cracker. Maybe that’s why he wants one.
I doubt anyone here would have thought it possible, but Dabid is even dumber than the typical anti-gay troll that shows up here.
Priya, God worked through fallen human beings. Abraham, Noah, Lot, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon were all people with feet of clay. There was only one person who was without sin and that was Jesus Christ who came as an acceptable sacrfice in place of us.
Our deaths are as a consequence of Adam’s rebellion against God. But even our deaths cannot expunge the wickedness of our hearts. That required the death of someone who didn’t need to offer himself sacrificially because He himself was perfect. but He took our place in order that we might not have to face a second death, being brought face to face with a Holy God and thus condemned to face an eternity of torment and living destruction.
God does not wish that any choose that. But the choice is ours. We choose to go to hell by rejecting what Christ has done for us.
John 3:14 – 20 says And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
David, so the lesson to the story is–ask to rape angels–be destroyed. Rape virgin daughters–you’re good.
Hey David! I know the NFL season is over, but surely Tim Tebow must be doing something…go find it.
Well Becky if you read what happened to Lot and his two daughters after they had escaped from the destruction of Sodom, the Bible revealed that though maybe his heart deep down was right, he compromised and made some terrible decisions for which he paid. Plus you have to remember that he lived according to the light that he had at the time: the Old Testament had not been written at that time. What Lot did and the incest that he performed with his daughters is not held up as behaviour that is righteous, which is partly why the Law brought in at a later time with Moses, forbade incest. Meanwhile our society which has had the whole counsel of God, the Bible for two thousand years and which therefore has no excuse, is just as bad if not infinitely worse than that of Sodom. God’s judgement is being poured out on our nations.We have seen nothing yet.
David said, “No doubt you will still be saying but none of this [Bible crap] describes, close stable gay relationships.”
No I won’t. I don’t care what the Bible says, other than as a historic record of the ignorance and superstition of the people during the time period of the writings. It has no relevance to how I live my life whatsoever.
It’s sad when an otherwise intelligent person, such as David, is so profoundly gullible that he blindly accepts religious indoctrination.
It’s interesting that David started off by concealing the religious motivation/justification of his rantings, and then finally trotted it out with an explosion of tired old Bible quotes. And when that wasn’t enough to bring us to our knees crying out to the guy in the sky, he started SCREAMING in all caps. It’s hard backbreaking work trying to indoctrinate people in civilized societies that are abandoning religion at an increasing pace. When you finally allow yourself to ask the tough hardball questions about religion, and to be receptive to honest answers, it becomes impossible to believe this stuff.
David said “He took our place in order that we might not have to face a second death, being brought face to face with a Holy God and thus condemned to face an eternity of torment and living destruction. God does not wish that any choose that. But the choice is ours. We choose to go to hell by rejecting what Christ has done for us.”.
No, that’s exactly what your god wants, the vast majority of people who ever lived to face an eternity of torment and living destruction. Your god knew when he created the world and ever person in it exactly what they would do and that he would send them to hell for it. Your god had the power to make things different than they are but chose not to, the world is exactly how he wants it and he wants to eternally torture most people.
To claim people choose hell is the same as claiming it would be your choice to die if I pointed a gun at you and said “Your money or your life” and you chose to run thinking I wasn’t serious and I shot you in the head. Your god is solely responsible for all the pain and suffering and eternal torment, your god is a monster.
David said “God’s judgement is being poured out on our nations.We have seen nothing yet.”.
People are living longer, better lives than ever before, there are fewer wars than at any point in time throughout history, people have all manner of labour saving devices, conveniences and more leisure time than ever – particularly in those countries that are the least religious and most tolerant of gays. If this is your god’s judgment being poured out on us I can’t wait to get all he can dish out.
Yeah David–I read that, their mother (Lot’s wife) turns to salt and they rape their drunken father. What a stupid story–why would you even bring it up to prove anything? It just shows how morally dubious the Bible is.
David said “Plus you have to remember that [Lot] lived according to the light that he had at the time: the Old Testament had not been written at that time. What Lot did and the incest that he performed with his daughters is not held up as behaviour that is righteous, which is partly why the Law brought in at a later time with Moses, forbade incest.”.
So, by the same token your god should have overlooked the wrongdoings of Sodom as the Old Testament had not been written at the time. But, there your god goes again, being capricious, full of double standards and 100% arbitrary.
oh David. calm down dear. Resorting to Capitals? Has someone upset poor little Bubba Skinner?
“Watch out. I may copy paste the entire Bible – that’ll teach them.”
Your posts are hysterical. Not the contemporary rmeaning related to humour (though goodness, how I laughed), but the older one, meaning rooted in madness.