Maybe exgay is a form of BDSM fetish? You know the websites of which I speak!

Karen, Alan’s friends don’t get to decide the nature of Alan’s comments, only Alan speaks for Alan and he’s been pretty clear about what he now admits.

Karen said “And if you’re going to give credence and authority to someone’s statements about their personal experience of “ex-gay” people, why not mine?”.

Because when someone states something that hurts their cause or makes them look bad its much more credible than when someone makes a statement that is in their self-interest or agrandizes them. Alan has a strong disincentive to make the statements that no one has changed, you’ve got a strong incentive to claim they have – its far more likely for that reason that you’re lying and Alan is not.

Its like the situation with gayness. Gayness is widely seen to be a negative attribute so when someone says “I’m gay” its much more likely they’re telling the truth then when someone says “I’m no longer gay”. People are much less likely to be lying when they say something that makes them look bad or harms them financially then they are when they say something that makes them look good or benefit financially.

In this situation Alan is believable, you are not.

Where did you get your 75% figure from? It seems that you have pulled it out of thin air. Even if Chambers had spoken off the cuff, as you suggest, there is no way that his figure can be squared with your bogus one. Personally, I’d trust the president of the group more than a desperate publicity hound like yourself.

In terms of Chambers speaking off the cuff, that is untrue. He has a history of saying that sexual orientation is not something that can be changed. So do most honest “ex-gay” activists.

Karen, here is the truth from your own spokespeople:

Alan Chambers
“One thing we can expect as Christians is a life of denial. I don’t think we’re afraid to tell people that they may have a lifetime of struggle. Freedom isn’t the absence of struggle, but the life of struggle with joy in the process.” (Christianity Today, Sept. 13, 2007)

“By no means would we ever say change can be sudden or complete.” (Los Angeles Times, June 18, 2007)

Sexual orientation “isn’t a light switch that you can switch on and off.” (Los Angeles Times, June 18, 2007)

“And so every single morning – this is a ritual for me – I wake up and I say, “Dear Lord, I can’t make it today without You. I choose to deny what comes naturally to me.’” (Love Won Out, Phoenix, Feb. 10, 2007, http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com)

Chambers told One News Now that he had never met someone who had a “sudden or complete change when it came to homosexuality.” He told the news service that he believes that God gives people the ability to overcome on a daily basis, rather than “a complete transformation in an instant.” (One News Now, June 22, 2007)

“I don’t think change is going from gay to straight. Just saying that doesn’t sound like an accurate representation of what Exodus facilitates or proclaims.” (Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth, pg. 35, Haworth Press 2003, interview taped March 11, 2001)

“To say that Exodus is a great healer and the place for people to become straight, I would think that is not right. If there are Exodus ministries that do that, we need to change that. We need to work on that.” (Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth, pg. 35, Haworth Press 2003, interview taped March 11, 2001)

“Put me in a bathhouse, would I find people attractive or would it stir me, it probably would. I’m not a raging heterosexual where I have to worry about if a lady walks in the room and I have to turn my head, while some guys are like that.” Anything But Straight, pg. 58, Haworth Press 2003, interview taped March 11, 2001)

Joe Dallas, Speaker, Focus on the Family’ Love Won Out tour
“No one has ever left therapy saying, “Wow, I have absolutely no homosexual thoughts.” (Los Angeles Times, April 5, 1990)

Jeff Konrad, Author, You Don’t Have To Be Gay
“Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t lust for women as some men do; that is not healthy behavior either.” (“You Don’t Have to Be Gay,” Pg. 280, Pacific Publishing House, 1987)

Alan Medinger, Author, Growth Into Manhood
“If an attractive man and an attractive woman enter a room, it is the man I will look at first.” (The Wall Street Journal, April 21, 1993)

John Smid, Executive Director, Love in Action
“I am not totally healed from homosexuality. It is part of my emotional, physical and spiritual history. It will not be erased as if it did not exist. I still struggle at times…I will shut down with my wife at times. I periodically have thoughts regarding men.” (http://www.stonewallrevisited.com/pages/john_s.html)

Karen, please stop lying to us. Your own spokespeople tell a completely different story that does not conform to your dishonest propaganda.

Even Alan’s closest friends and associates — Randy Thomas and Board member, John Warren — have acknowledged that Alan’s comments were “off the cuff,” “extemporaneous,” and not to be taken literally as a serious expression of his beliefs.

That you (your .1% statement) and others (on all sides of the human sexuality debate) are citing them as “gospel truth” is pretty disturbing. So I’m forced to believe you do so (as you do most things) for sensationalistic political reasons.

And if you’re going to give credence and authority to someone’s statements about their personal experience of “ex-gay” people, why not mine?

Unlike Alan, I’d estimate that about 75% of the men and women I know well have experienced fundamental, if not yet complete, change in their sexual desires and behavior. None of them have repudiated this change or returned to a gay identity and behavior, including one of the original founders of Exodus who has been free from same-sex struggles for three decades. Nor do any of them “earn their keep” in professional “ex-gay” ministry as you so often claim.

Anyway, I’m very glad that someone from TWO will be onsite at the Restored Hope gathering. We need all the media attention we can get. So thanks ahead of time for helping with that.

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html

slap. slap. slap. slap. slap. slap. slap.

I guess i’m not going to hear him taking his sacred oath any time soon.

But this is very interesting– not a new thing, but still interesting. You’ve caught him in several lies.

I hope he comes back to explain himself. And if he doesn’t, I wonder how he can live with himself for lying?

False. Paul’s word arsenkoite actually translates as man-bed, not “men and marriage bed”. The term does not exist elsewhere in the bible or in other literature from the time and that is why there is much disagreement about what exactly Paul meant by the phrase he made up out of the blue.

You seem to be obsessed with the born gay argument. No, it hasn’t been proved that anyone is born gay. It hasn’t been proved that anyone is born straight either. No homosexual gene has been discovered, and no heterosexual or bi-sexual gene has been discovered either. The answer to the question of what causes sexual orientation is that we still don’t know. The evidence remains inconclusive. It is now generally agreed that, if there are any genetic factors, they will not be traceable to a single gene. But the case for legal and social equality does not in any way depend on whether or not people are born with their sexual orientation. And even if it can be demonstrated that a trait is not congenital, that does not prove that it is changeable. In the case of sexual orientation, the evidence indicates that it is very definitely NOT changeable, at least not by any process of deliberate engineering.

No man or woman in the world is infallible, and that includes St Paul. The very little that he wrote on the subject of homosexuality is marginal to his message and his remarks in Romans 1 suggest that he knew and understood very little about it. Whatever he may have meant by “arsenokoitai”, it is clear from the context that it referred to something or other which he believed that these people had stopped DOING; there is no suggestion that anyone’s sexual orientation had changed, or that he even thought in those terms.

As for your claim that you were gay and now are not, that is a misleading claim, and you know perfectly well that it is, since it carries an esoteric meaning which is quite different from its natural one. It means simply that you have stopped calling yourself gay and have stopped having gay sex. After proclaiming repeatedly and publicly during the early months of 2009 that you were “ex-gay” and “heterosexual”, you finally admitted in June of that year on the True Freedom [sic] Trust website that although you called yourself heterosexual, you did so because you believed that that was how “God sees me” and that you were not actually “there yet” and still “struggled” with homosexual feelings. In other words, the whole thing is just a game of make-believe between you and God.

You also claimed in 2010 on BBC Radio Sussex that “I can honestly say that I’ve not had any feelings of homosexuality over seven years.” Not only does that contradict your admission on the TFT website a year previously, it is also at variance with a claim that you made a few years earlier that you had experienced no homosexual attractions for TEN years. This means that your alleged homosexuality-free period has mysteriously shrunk by several years.

As for shutting you up, that is the last thing that I, at any rate, would ever want to do. On the contrary, Mr McIntyre, I would encourage you to speak out as much as possible. The more you spout your deceptive and contradictory statements, the more you help to show up the “ex-gay” delusion for what it is.