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Apple Dumps ‘Gay Cure’ iPhone App After 150,000 People Sign Petition Calling For Its Removal
Posted March 23rd, 2011 by Wayne Besen

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Contact: Wayne Besen, Truth Wins Out
Phone: 917-691-5118, 920-265-6023
Email: wbesen@truthwinsout.org

Michael Jones, Change.org
Phone: 617-595-7868
Email: mjones@change.org

Truth Wins Out and Change.org Praise Apple For Wise and Responsible Decision To Remove Anti-Gay iPhone App

BURLINGTON, Vt. – Truth Wins Out and Change.org praised Apple today after the company removed a virulently anti-gay iPhone app launched by Exodus International that promoted “curing” gay people. The move came after 150,000 people signed a Truth Wins Out petition on Change.org calling on Apple to remove the app from iTunes.

“Apple made a wise and responsible decision to dump an offensive app that demonized gay and lesbian people,” said Wayne Besen, Executive Director of Truth Wins Out. “The real winners today are LGBT youth who are safer and less at risk for receiving Exodus’ malice and misinformation.”

“We’re thrilled that Apple has removed this ‘gay cure’ app from the iTunes store after more than 150,000 people signed this petition,” said Mike Jones, Editor at Change.org, the platform used by Truth Wins Out to launch the petition. “The message Apple is sending here is clear: there is no place for ‘ex-gay therapy’ on the Apple platform.”

Exodus’ app was not only offensive, but it relied on twisting legitimate research in its effort to dehumanize LGBT people. For example, Gary Remafedi, a researcher from the University of Minnesota, asked Apple earlier in the week to remove Exodus International’s app from its online store because he claimed it grossly distorted his work.

Apple’s move to drop the app brings it in line with every respected mental health organization in the nation. The American Psychological Association, American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, and American Counseling Association have all rejected “ex-gay” therapy, saying that it can result in serious harm to the mental health of its victims.

“This is not a question of free speech, but of stopping a virulently anti-gay organization from peddling false speech at the expense of vulnerable LGBT youth,” said John Becker, Truth Wins Out’s Director of Communications and Development. “Exodus may pose as the victim, but they are a victimizer that has left a trail of shattered lives and broken families. We are grateful that Exodus has lost at least one platform with which to disperse its dangerous message.”

– 30 –

For interviews and exclusive quotes:

Wayne Besen, Executive Director, Truth Wins Out
wbesen@truthwinsout.org

(917) 691 5118
Truth Wins Out is a non-profit organization that fights anti-LGBT religious extremism and the “ex-gay” myth. TWO specializes in turning information into action by organizing, advocating and fighting for LGBT equality.

Michael Jones, Editor, Change.org
mjones@change.org
(617) 595 7868

Change.org is the world’s fastest growing platform for social change, with more than 3 million readers a month. Change.org provides daily news and information about important social issues and empowers people to take action.

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297 Comments »

  1. Great job. Exodus has no right to prey on lgbt youth and try to groom them for indoctrination into their quack treatments. As you point out, it’s a safety issue and Apple did the right thing. Kudos to Steve Jobs and their inclusive corporate culture.

    Comment by Curtis — March 23, 2011 @ 12:36 am

  2. GOOOD GOING!!!!

    Comment by Scott Rose — March 23, 2011 @ 12:37 am

  3. It’d be great if you’d be willing to now apply these same arguments to the AIDS denial propaganda film “House of Numbers,” which was funded by Peter Duesberg’s denialist organization Rethinking AIDS and is currently available from i-Tunes, Netflix, Amazon, etc. The film is most definitely “peddling false speech at the expense of vulnerable LGBT youth,” and all people with, or at risk for, HIV infection.

    Comment by Richard Jefferys — March 23, 2011 @ 1:11 am

  4. Excellent Work!!!

    Comment by Jason Conner — March 23, 2011 @ 1:15 am

  5. AWWWWWSOME, we did it!!! Thanks guys!!!

    Comment by iDavid — March 23, 2011 @ 2:46 am

  6. Thank you guys !!!

    Comment by Fredrik Olsson — March 23, 2011 @ 4:56 am

  7. Great job fellas!

    Comment by Greg — March 23, 2011 @ 6:51 am

  8. Awesome work, guys. I’m so glad I added my signature in time!

    Comment by David Shelton — March 23, 2011 @ 8:20 am

  9. [...] fantastic victory: reacting to a successful petition, spearheaded and originated by his site, Apple pulled from the Apple Store an iPhone “app” by the extremist Christian organization “Exodus [...]

    Pingback by The Effective Boycott and “Freedom” « Submitted to a Candid World — March 23, 2011 @ 8:32 am

  10. GREAT! Now watch right wing and fundo heads start exploding like Gadhafi’s airforce.

    Comment by Gary (NJ) — March 23, 2011 @ 9:06 am

  11. “This is not a question of free speech, but of stopping a virulently anti-gay organization from peddling false speech at the expense of vulnerable LGBT youth.”

    Exactly. That is how we must frame this argument. From those outside the debate it would look like gay rights organizations are trying to silence and intimidate opponents. This gives ammunition for Christinists and anti-gay organizations to cry about their First Amendment rights. However, if we remind everyone that free speech has limits and that Exodus violates free speech by perpetuating fraud on the public, then we have the stronger and more persuasive argument.

    Good work Truth Wins Out for being instrumental in removing this harmful app.

    Comment by Nick — March 23, 2011 @ 10:18 am

  12. [...] has agreed to dump the iPhone app dedicated to "ex-gay" reparative [...]

    Pingback by Wear a rape joke for $11.99 (plus shipping): Your sex and gender morning roundup | HuntersMedia.com — March 23, 2011 @ 10:31 am

  13. Well done, Wayne! Just heard you comment on 1010WINS here in NYC. Excellent! Lets hope Steve Jobs or someone else makes it official.

    Comment by Robert in NYC — March 23, 2011 @ 10:38 am

  14. God fraud perpetrated by Judeo-Christian religious extremism is like a nuclear warhead to the soul. As with this one, only seasoned pros know how to dismantle them.

    Comment by iDavid — March 23, 2011 @ 11:39 am

  15. Happily signed the petition when I first heard of it. Thank you TruthWinsOut and Change.org for putting a stop to this.

    Comment by Shannon1981 — March 23, 2011 @ 12:10 pm

  16. [...] is here to gloat about his organization condemn the activities of Radical Homofascists, who have truly crossed the line this time, by taking away the only iPhone app (besides Grindr) which was ever any fun for the untold thousands [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - ‘God-Fearing Gay-Curing iPhone App Destroyed By Gays’ — March 23, 2011 @ 1:30 pm

  17. [...] as that.  Here’s our full press release, if you missed it. Tags: Apple, ex-gay, Exodus, Exodus International, [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Apple Spokesman: App Pulled Because It ‘Violated Developer Guidelines’ — March 23, 2011 @ 2:00 pm

  18. [...] The full press release can be found at Truth Wins Out’s website. [...]

    Pingback by Apple Removes ‘Gay Cure’ app after VT Group Starts Petition | Geek Mountain State — March 23, 2011 @ 2:25 pm

  19. If only it was this easy to rid of misguided, sanctimonious belief from every day life. Great job, Truth Wins Out!

    Comment by Charles — March 23, 2011 @ 2:34 pm

  20. Something tells me the very mention of Wayne Bessen’s name sends shivers down those crooked snake oil salesmens’ spines. One of my fondest memories was standing along side Wayne and large group (bigger than the group INSIDE the “convention”) chanting into a megaphone “QUACKS QUACKS QUACKS! STOP THE ATTACKS!” to those quacks at the NARTH convention in Dallas last year. (Wayne came up with a lot of other great chants too.) Too bad each of the people who signed that petition couldn’t have donated just $5 each to Truth Wins Out. (hint hint)

    Comment by Gabe Coppinger — March 23, 2011 @ 2:37 pm

  21. Good suggestion, Gabe. I just donated $25 with Paypal.

    Comment by Charles — March 23, 2011 @ 2:46 pm

  22. Gabe and Charles are setting a good example!

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 23, 2011 @ 2:55 pm

  23. I checked out this app to see what the fuss was about. They state specifically that their program is to support people with “unwanted same sex attraction”, and that they are not trying to change people that are happy with being gay. The app also states their position that violence and hate towards gays is wrong. I don’t see what the problem is here, I didn’t find anything hate filled in what they are trying to accomplish. Sounds more to me like the gay rights activists are overreacting to this idea that not everybody that has tendencies for same sex attraction wants to embrace that lifestyle and some of them are seeking support for it.

    Let’s see what happens when some app appears that promotes gay marriage is attacked and demands made that Apple remove it. Something like that would offend “large groups of people” too. For the PC crowd it’s just a matter of which “large groups of people” are offended isn’t it. The PC crowd feel they are the sole arbiters of what is or is not offensive, bigoted, racist, or just not PC. At least that’s what they would like us to believe.

    Comment by Username — March 23, 2011 @ 5:01 pm

  24. Funny how gays are all about being ok to go from straight to gay because according to them they were gay all along just denying themselves but don’t go telling them gays can go straight. The gay rights lobby is so full of crap its amazing. I’m so glad I took my mashed up iPOOP and sent it back to Crapple.

    Comment by Rory — March 23, 2011 @ 5:05 pm

  25. As the gay groups say Exodus has no right to “prey” on LGBT kids, I say gays have no right trying to shove their lifestyle down straight kids throats.

    Comment by Rory — March 23, 2011 @ 5:08 pm

  26. “Funny how gays are all about being ok to go from straight to gay because according to them they were gay all along”

    Your logic doesn’t follow, there. How can they go from straight to gay if they were gay all along?

    THINK, bro.

    “I say gays have no right trying to shove their lifestyle down straight kids throats.”

    You know what? You’re right. Just like straight people shouldn’t shove their lifestyle down our throats.

    That means no hugging your girlfriend, no kissing your girlfriend, no talking about your girlfriend, no having your girlfriend’s picture in public, no showing off your wedding band, no advertising your wedding, no trying to get wedding benefits…

    Oh, what’s that? That only applies to gay people?

    Well!

    Username: “I didn’t find anything hate filled in what they are trying to accomplish.”

    That’s because you don’t think using lies to tell gay people that they’re degenerate and broken is an act of hate, which means anything you say is just so much bigoted gobbeltygook.

    Comment by Makyui — March 23, 2011 @ 5:18 pm

  27. So, Rory, are you saying that you could go gay if you so desired?

    Comment by PhilipJ — March 23, 2011 @ 5:19 pm

  28. @Makyui

    You want to call me a Bigot? Lets see what a bigot is.

    Bigot:A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

    Looks like all the over zealous homosexuals backing this take down of the app are just a bunch of hypocrites when they call others bigots or homophobes. Homophobe is so over used. Everyone that doesn’t buy into your opinion is one. I guess people should use Christophobia or Christianophobia more often when talking to you.

    Comment by Username — March 23, 2011 @ 5:51 pm

  29. I signed the petition and donated to this cause and I would again in a hearbeat. This app was nothing more than the typical propaganda BS that is constantly being excreted by the anti-gay/uber-religious lemmings. It wasn’t there to help anyone and if you really believe that it was then it’s time to open a book other than the bible and learn something worthwhile. Stop the brainwashing and educate yourself.

    Comment by Anita W — March 23, 2011 @ 6:11 pm

  30. Username, I’m convinced that Makyui was right.

    Comment by Daniel — March 23, 2011 @ 6:14 pm

  31. Yeah, I know, Username. Disagreeing with you and your support of vicious lies is just like being viciously lied about by people who want to take advantage of your susceptibilities so that they can get money and sexual favors from you.

    By the way: opinions and beliefs can be wrong. Pointing out that they’re wrong is not intolerance nor is it bigotry. But we’re already pretty well aware that when privileged fundie bigots are disagreed with, they think it’s a personal attack, because they’re so used to getting their way all the time. So you don’t have to demonstrate it here.

    LOL Christophobia. You realize most of the folks who come here and stood up against the app are Christians, right?

    Comment by Makyui — March 23, 2011 @ 6:15 pm

  32. so that they can get money and sexual favors from you. ROFL! What is the world are you talking about? This website might want money and sexual favors from You but I never downloaded that app and never would have.

    Its just the fact that this website exists for one purpose and its to stir up crap and hatred towards others. Others that supposedly do the same thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this site mocking people from Trailer Parks. Why would they write articles or comment like everyone from a trailer park is some kind of southern retard. You don’t think anyone ever grew up in a trailer park and went to college? Thats right up there with all the other racist or bigoted slurs that I won’t mention. Its just an example of how this site and its creators are no better than the people attacking the homosexual community.

    Last trip here. Don’t want to give this site any more traffic. I look at this site like any other pathetic website looking for attention. Get in the news and make money on the web. Just like that attention seeking church that hates homosexuals I won’t mention.

    Make sure you donate to the cause! LOL!

    Comment by Username — March 23, 2011 @ 6:30 pm

  33. Username, you are using so many words to say so little. Do you have hobbies or anything? Any unopened books lying around?

    I mean, really, all my commenters are doing is making you look stupid, though I suspect many things in your daily life do that.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 23, 2011 @ 6:35 pm

  34. Username, were you home-schooled?

    Comment by Richard Rush — March 23, 2011 @ 6:37 pm

  35. WAY TO GO TRUTH WINS OUT!!!

    Comment by cj myers — March 23, 2011 @ 7:20 pm

  36. Not cool man! I was home-schooled. :( We’re not all complete idiots like that guy, a lot of us are pretty cool. :( Don’t hate!

    Comment by Lofn — March 23, 2011 @ 7:23 pm

  37. Do you need a hankie, Username?

    Comment by Makyui — March 23, 2011 @ 7:25 pm

  38. [...] this app was by real people bent on “curing” GLBT community. Well, after pressure from numerous groups, and a 100,000 sign petition. Apple quickly removed the app from the Appstore, here’s what [...]

    Pingback by Sanity Prevails As Apple Removes The “Gay Cure” App From The Appstore — March 23, 2011 @ 8:12 pm

  39. Where can I download the app?

    Comment by bobby joe — March 24, 2011 @ 12:01 am

  40. Bobby Joe, you may ask Exodus to put the app on the Android Market where there are few content restrictions.

    Or you may read all the articles from the app by visiting the links that are listed here:
    http://bit.ly/gC1hfD

    Comment by mike airhart — March 24, 2011 @ 12:10 am

  41. [...] pedir a Apple que retirase la aplicación. Tras recibir más de 146.000 firmas, según explican en un comunicado, Apple retiró la aplicación de su [...]

    Pingback by Apple retira la aplicación de un grupo homófobo de la App Store | SOLO INFORMATICA, POR MANUEL MURILLO GARCIA — March 24, 2011 @ 2:44 am

  42. Typical. Gays pushing thier agendas again. Username had it right but (waiting for the flames) I know you’ll all just attack me too.

    If you were actually confident in your beliefs, apps like this wouldn’t ‘inscence’ you.

    The only good thing about this is that you have just given some fantastic and free publicity to a pretty normal application :)

    LOL @ TWO

    Comment by Jeff — March 24, 2011 @ 3:03 am

  43. “A pretty normal application” which doesn’t exist anymore, dillweed.

    And what poor things like you don’t understand is that when normal people are confronted by the real story of “ex-gay” advocacy, they’re horrified. Even mainline to moderately conservative Christians laugh at people like you when they hear the real story.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 24, 2011 @ 4:16 am

  44. May this about-face resonate with other organizations, sending a message that coordinated activism for equality should not be underestimated!

    Comment by Gail Zoppo — March 24, 2011 @ 8:16 am

  45. [...] considera la homosexualidad como una lacra. El manifiesto que acompaña la petición de cese puede leerse en la página web de la asociación, que tiene muy claras sus intenciones: “la aplicación de Exodus no solo es [...]

    Pingback by Apple, en el punto de mira por una aplicación anti gay - QDiario Sexualidad — March 24, 2011 @ 8:26 am

  46. What some of you don’t understand here is that there is a great difference between being harmed and being offended. Exodus produces psycological harm generated by self loathing and hate of homosexuality. Hate infects. This is far more grevious than being offended that a gay person who say, wants to get married. That does not produce “harm”, it is not an act produced towards someone that makes them hurt on purpose producing harm to their system.
    Exodus knows it hates homosexuality, promotes that, and infects kids that hang themselves in their bedrooms because of it. That far outweighs offensive, that is grevious harm. So now you may see why we as gay people are over reacting to you not looking deeper into this issue. Its the harm of life and death. I have yet to see and str8s have yet to prove, how people are”harmed” by gay marriage, a loving act. You may find that objectionable but pulling an app over it doesn’t make sense because there is no “harm” in it. So next time you are unsure about something like this, don’t Just look at whether it doesn’t fit your ideology, look at whether it causes actual aggressive harm to individuals. That yard stick may then temper your discussions a little more lightly.

    Comment by iDavid — March 24, 2011 @ 8:29 am

  47. “Harm” destroys. “Offended” annoys. Only one of these should be punishable by law.

    Comment by iDavid — March 24, 2011 @ 8:59 am

  48. [...] on the store, but when a voice is silenced someone is excluded from the conversation. The advocates of the applications removal said that Apple, a promoter of gay rights and donator in the fight for gay marriage in California, [...]

    Pingback by Censorship? There’s an App for That. « uco360 — March 24, 2011 @ 10:33 am

  49. [...] Apple’s voluntary removal of the app (encouraged by over 150k signatures in an online petition facilitated through Change.org) was applauded by Wayne Besen, executive director of Truth Wins Out, an LGBT non-profit, Apple made a wise and responsible decision to dump an offensive app that demonized gay and lesbian p…. [...]

    Pingback by Does freedom of speech apply in a free market? | Gun and Bible — March 24, 2011 @ 12:55 pm

  50. Congratulations to us all! What you organised to do has made a difference for how SO MANY people feel. Thank you so much guys, keep going!!!! Wonderful news!

    Comment by Mara — March 24, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  51. [...] you all know, Apple pulled the bigoted Exodus iPhone app after our petition drew over 150,000 signatures from customers demanding that the company treat [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - No, AfterElton, The Remedy Is Not ‘Worse Than The Cure’ — March 24, 2011 @ 5:38 pm

  52. *applause*

    Comment by Paul — March 24, 2011 @ 6:55 pm

  53. Absolutely thrilled at this outcome!

    Comment by Greg — March 25, 2011 @ 12:22 am

  54. Great work TWO; thank you Wayne; you know you’ve done a good job, when Porno Pete starts his whining ! (P.S., ask him about assless chaps).

    Comment by Christoph — March 25, 2011 @ 3:41 pm

  55. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13

    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts oftheir own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them upunto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Romans 1: 24, 25, 26, 27.

    The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: forall that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5.

    Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forthfor an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, noridolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. 1 Corinthians 6: 9.

    Knowing this, that the law is not madefor a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and forsinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselveswith mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine. 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

    And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put todeath: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast,and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surelybe put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Lev 20: 15, 16.

    Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Leviticus 18: 22, 23.

    Comment by Milt — March 26, 2011 @ 6:32 am

  56. Facts and Statistics About Homosexuals
    Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:
    One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3).
    One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime.
    Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
    Many homosexuals don’t pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: “Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior” (16).
    Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. “Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence” (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels “subjective distress”) (27).
    Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population.
    Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the “gay bowel syndrome” (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).
    73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).
    25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).
    Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film “The Castro”, one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to “cruisy areas” and have anonymous sex.
    78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).
    Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, “Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities” (10).
    Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, “30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals” (10).
    50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10).
    Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, “Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person” (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
    It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10).
    Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population.
    Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).
    37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).
    41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8).
    Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8).
    The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8). [This is a reduction in the length of life by 44% (33/75 = 44%)
    The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
    Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8).
    21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).
    50% of the calls to a hotline to report “queer bashing” involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18).
    About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).
    Homosexuals prey on children.
    33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).
    There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is “SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE.” This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States.
    Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).
    73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).
    Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: “The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality” (22).
    Because homosexuals can’t reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting “TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT” in their homosexual parades. A group called the “Lesbian Avengers” prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print “WE RECRUIT” on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren’t as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.
    The homosexual agenda.
    The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: “The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights…..To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games….At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full ‘appreciation’ or ‘understanding’ of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing…then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won” (25).
    Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: “We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right — as heterosexual Americans already have — to see government and society affirm our lives” (27).
    Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: “The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion” (1).
    Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, “We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness” (17).
    The true number of homosexuals.
    The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of the population is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving young boys and pedophiles. Information on Kinsey.
    Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.
    Homosexuals aren’t discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?
    The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24).
    59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren’t smart enough to listen to God. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:22).
    49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where’s the job discrimination?
    Sexual Orientation
    A phrase that has come up recently in this earth is “sexual orientation.” This is a phrase made up by homosexuals to try to make themselves look less filthy than they really are. The purpose of the phrase is to take the spotlight from what these perverts do, and put it on the notion that they are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are attracted to members of the same sex – as if they aren’t engaging in activity forbidden by God Almighty. “Sexual orientation,” as used today, has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah, right), but only refers to who or what a particular person is attracted to. If you think that people of other “sexual orientations” are just fine, let’s see what other “sexual orientations” you would necessarily have to accept as wholesome and pure. If you’re not going to discriminate based on “sexual orientation”, then you must not discriminate against any of the following. If you discriminate against any of these, you’re a hypocrite. These “sexual orientations” are generally known as “paraphilias”, and are mental disorders – just like homosexuality used to be (29).

    Comment by Milt — March 26, 2011 @ 6:33 am

  57. Congratulations, Milt. You figured out how to copy and paste. Your mother must be proud.

    Too bad you forgot about the part where no one cares.

    Comment by Makyui — March 26, 2011 @ 7:08 am

  58. HE also forgot that the vast majority of the data he lists is no discredited, from bigoted sources, and laughed at by law enforcement, the medical community, and the Business community.

    He is a fool, and laughed at by the Fortune 500, the Government, The Police, Psycholgical and Psychiatirc counselors, more and more Churches and denominations, and decent and moral people everywhere who KNOW gay people, and who are shown by polling to support Civil unions for us, adoption by us (because we have been shown to be good parents) Churches (because most of us are people of faith, and more and more accept us as we are and God made us) and schools, because the rising generationa accept us as we are, and can SEE THROUGH such BAD information as this poor man ( Milt ) is trying to pass off.

    Milt, is it REALLY frustrating knowing almost no one is listening, and even fewer buying the misinformation, old information, and right wing generated poor data you are sharing?

    Comment by Gene — March 26, 2011 @ 8:32 am

  59. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: forall that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5.

    Well Milt, according to this it’s a sin for me, a girl, to wear pants. Seeing as they weren’t created for us women.

    That’s cool.

    Comment by Cheyenne — March 26, 2011 @ 10:01 am

  60. Milt, I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to share the truth of God’s Word and all those other facts and statistics about homosexuality. I had never been aware of that information, and it really opened my eyes. My response was amazing – I immediately fell to my knees and cried out to God for forgiveness and deliverance from homosexual temptations. I was suddenly Saved. Thank you!!!

    Some people will attack you by pointing out that, throughout history, other despised groups of people, such as Jews and racial/ethnic groups, were persecuted with the help and backing of dishonest writings and Biblical references. But homosexuality truly is different. Milt, you need to maintain your resolve to keep standing up for the truth. You will labeled a bigot, but always remember, you have principles on your side.

    When I told my partner of nearly thirty years about these revelations, he was devastated. But I told him how much God loved him and then I shared with him the Good News of Jesus Christ. I pointed out how God loves us so much that He wants us to be lonely and miserable for the rest of our lives – for His glory (and to be spared from His eternal punishment). When I asked God if He would change us to heterosexuals, He said: “No, I haven’t learned how to do that yet. Alan Chambers keeps marketing the Exodus pray-away-the-gay program, ostensibly because he seems to believe I’ll learn how to make it happen any day now. I tried really hard to give Alan the change he wanted, but I just couldn’t, so he’s been faking it all these years – all for my glory (and, yes, to be spared from my eternal punishment program). But I finally skirted the whole issue by issuing a proclamation whereby the opposite of homosexuality is no longer heterosexuality, it’s now holiness! And fortunately, Alan bought into the idea.”

    Praise God!

    Comment by Richard Rush — March 26, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

  61. Richard…thats…brilliant! LOL! :)

    Comment by Gene — March 26, 2011 @ 12:35 pm

  62. Milt-you must feel so much better now that you’ve spewed all your s**t ! Hope you have enough toilet paper to clean up your mess !

    Comment by Christoph — March 26, 2011 @ 3:39 pm

  63. As a member of the straight community, I am happy about this. Don’t “cure” these people, or give them the idea they have a sickness, just let them not be able to reproduce and hopefully not push their genes (because being gay is NOT a choice and there are genetic proofs from scientific leaders) forward.

    Gotta love survival of the fittest, it’s a b***h (when you believe in it).

    Comment by peter101 — March 26, 2011 @ 6:11 pm

  64. Actually, though, Peter, the fun thing about the study of genetics, especially as regards being gay, is that there is enough evidence to show that it’s biological in origin and most likely to be in the genes, BUT it stays in the gene pool and always HAS stayed, since time immemorial. That leads scientists to new questions like “why?” and they’re coming up with some fascinating answers. Survival of the fittest is far more complicated than you think. That being said, why would YOU consider it a good thing for homosexuality to die out?

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 26, 2011 @ 6:21 pm

  65. Peter101, Because you are using the term, “survival of the fittest,” I doubt that you have any grounding in biology (nor do I).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

    “The phrase “survival of the fittest” is not generally used by modern biologists as the term does not accurately convey the meaning of natural selection, the term biologists use and prefer. Natural selection refers to differential reproduction as a function of traits that have a genetic basis. “Survival of the fittest” is inaccurate for two important reasons . . .”

    Comment by Richard Rush — March 26, 2011 @ 6:42 pm

  66. Peter, gay children often come from straight parents. Forcing gay people to abstain from reproduction won’t get rid of homosexuality.

    You’re basically asking for eugenics, which has nothing to do with natural selection and is considered a form of genocide. Do you realize that?

    If you don’t see being gay as a sickness, why do you want it to go away?

    Comment by Makyui — March 26, 2011 @ 7:37 pm

  67. Mitt all your statistics suffer from similar lies through ommission. They sound horrible on the surface but the truth is wildly different from what you are trying to lead people to believe. For example, you said “73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age”.

    Virtually all of those gays were also under 19 years of age when they had sex with boys under the age of 19. You tried to make it sound like gays are pedophiles but the truth of the matter is no different than it is with heteosexuals – most heterosexuals have also had sex with children under the age of 19 as well. Teenagers, gay or straight have sex with other teenagers, big whoop.

    If I were to go through the rest of your “statistics” we’d see all of them suffer from the same sort of grotesque distortions of reality that the aforementioned example did – we’ve heard and debunked them all before.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 26, 2011 @ 10:19 pm

  68. the only people who need “cures” are you nazis. If you didn’t like the the app, don’t buy it. Wayne besen is a nazi, a liar, and a dirtbag.

    Comment by AC — March 27, 2011 @ 3:20 pm

  69. Wow, AC, your comment shows it really is true that bullies think it’s terribly unfair and get really pissy when their victims fight back. And when they not only fight back, but then win, you go totally apoplectic.

    (AC? A.C.? No, it couldn’t be.)

    Comment by Richard Rush — March 27, 2011 @ 9:06 pm

  70. AC keeps calling us nazis because he doesn’t know what nazis are.

    Hint: they aren’t people who are against spreading lies about minorities and torturing others for the sake of a god.

    Comment by Makyui — March 27, 2011 @ 9:11 pm

  71. Yes, having an app on the free market is “torture”. Nazis are also ignoramuses; thank you makyui for that helpful reminder.

    Comment by AC — March 27, 2011 @ 10:05 pm

  72. AC, and yet, someone else who misses the point. The App isn’t what causes the torture. The torture starts once you’ve entered the Exodus industry. But, I’m sure you have no idea what you’re talking about. You prove it with your idiotic Nazi comparisons.

    Comment by Daniel — March 27, 2011 @ 10:27 pm

  73. That’s because Godwin– I mean, AC knows that nazi = bad, which means anything bad = nazi, natch.

    What I want to know is why zie thinks Exodus gets special privilege to break Apple’s rules when nobody else does. Hmm…

    Comment by Makyui — March 27, 2011 @ 10:59 pm

  74. If you don’t want to go, then,…don’t! Tortures over! Yes, I learned from the best. makyui. Dishonest leftist rags like this website and losers like besen. Nazis is very apt.

    Comment by AC — March 28, 2011 @ 9:30 am

  75. Makyui, is the slow loser commenter bothering you?

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 28, 2011 @ 9:32 am

  76. AC — you miss a very important point. The app was targeted to LGBT yoth as young as middle school. Many of these kids are dragged to Exodus programs and conferences against their will. So when you make the hollow argument, “just don’t go” you conveniently overlook that Exodus strategic plan for 2011 was recruiting youth who have little say in whether or not they participate in these quack therapy programs.

    Finally — thanks for calling me a “loser”. A person can be judged by the character of his friends and the lack of character of his enemies. Thank you for reinforcing this maxim.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — March 28, 2011 @ 9:56 am

  77. To those whose wanted this app to be removed, I can understand why you did. I am not sure, but doing my best to understand your point of view, I think that it is likely that you feel the same about a freeing homosexuality app as you would about an app designed to free someone from being a woman, being a Jew, being black, or being a Gypsy. The reason I say that is that my perception is that many in the LGBT community see their sexual attractions as a sexual and personal IDENTITY, something innate that cannot be changed. To you, not acting on LGBT feelings would be as ludicrous as a black person painting themselves white and trying to deny their racial identity.

    If it is not obvious to you that the entire framework of Christian thought is different, then I think it would really help you out to know not just that it is different by why it is so different. (Apologies to anyone who finds this incredibly obvious.) The Bible does not teach (as best as I can tell) that there is such a thing as innate, unchanging, irresistible homosexuality. It’s simply seen as a sin. People don’t have to surrender to lying, greed, gossip, murder, robbery, or rape. The Bible does not excuse those things based on personal identity, and most of society does not either. Where we differ is on homosexuality. Most LGBT folks I take it seem to believe that they “discover” that they are LGBT in the same way that I might research my ethnicity and discover that I’m 80% Gypsy. If I discovered that, I might react to it many ways, but one thing I am not going to do is to try and change my family bloodline for the last four centuries because it is impossible. Christians just don’t see homosexuality that way because the Bible doesn’t teach it that way. (I’m sure there are some in the church who might disagree with me, but I would question that they really take all of the Bible as ultimate authority if they do.) We also base it on our experience of seeing people submit to LGBT desires to varying degrees.

    I didn’t write in to try and convince anyone here that LGBT tendencies or LGBT themselves are reprehensible. I was hoping to help provide some perspective on the nature of the discussion itself from my side of things. I am an environmental researcher, not a pyschological, medical, or social science researcher. So I can’t speak directly to any of the studies relating to homosexuality. I can say that I would examine any study or any evidence ANYONE has to bring regarding the subject and try as best as I can to fit into my Biblical grid. Whatever your “grid” is, I hope that you would do the same. Do you want truth, or do you want to preserve your current opinion?

    Lastly, I would say that if you the LGBT community does not want people to find out about ways they can counseled and convinced to leave an LGBT lifestyle, then this is a victory for you. But you can’t keep everyone from finding out, and I don’t think that you will be able to convince everyone that those who want to see LGBTs leave the lifestyle are out to get them, brainwash them, or hate on them. I have friends that are LGBT, and I sometimes try and fraternize with strangers in that area of my city. They know what I believe, but I think that even if they don’t agree with me, they would hard-pressed to say that I actively hate them. As an open inquiry, why does so much of the LGBT response to Biblical Christianity have to be characterized as hate speech? Are you absolutely sure that so much of it is? The reason I say this is that when you start saying things like that, you end up forestalling any calm and reasonable discussion with those who disagree with you. It quite rare that I want that even with those who I see hating some other person or group of people. How can I engage with them if I constantly label them as haters?

    Comment by Nathan H — March 28, 2011 @ 2:33 pm

  78. @Nathan–

    As gandalf said, “Find me a man with less lore and more wisdom.”

    “the entire framework of Christian thought is different” should be amended. SOME Christian thought, and if the quality of the argument is this…

    “The Bible does not teach (as best as I can tell) that there is such a thing as innate, unchanging, irresistible homosexuality.”

    then thought isn’t even part of the equaltion.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — March 28, 2011 @ 2:52 pm

  79. sorry, i didn’t mean to post.

    It all just boils down to self-righteopus blather,

    The bible cannot teach what it is pig ignorant about, and if you think that the vague– and i mean vague– references to what might possibly be homosexuality, at least as it might have been understood by a foreign people 3000 years, 8000 miles, and a total universe away…

    might be aobut homosexuality as we understand it today, then have at it.

    You are ignorant about homosexuality, Christianity, Exodus, and probably, yourself. you are good at self righteous blather. Find yourself a better brand of theology, one which does not involve telling complete strangers what is wrong with their lives and how they can fix it if they just think the same way you do.

    Maybe you should try the religion of Jesus, where attending to other people’s sins before you yourself have achieved perfection is Just Not Done.

    Therein lies the problem with this app. Too many people think– or don’t– the way you do.

    Here’s something from a presbyterian minister that you ought to take to heart:

    Why had we singled out homosexuality as a litmus test for True Christianity in the first place? Why had it become such a lightning rod for self-righteousness? One reason, I think, is that it’s easy to condemn homosexuality if you are not gay. It is much harder than condemning pride, or lust or greed, things that most practicing Christians have struggled with. It is all too easy to make homosexuality about “those people,” and not me. If I were to judge someone for their inflated sense of pride, or their tendency to worship various cultural idols, I would feel some personal stake, some cringe of self-judgment. Not so with homosexuality. ??

    ??Now I am wondering why, if two gay people want to commit their lives to one another, they should ever be denied that chance. No church or pastor should be forced to perform those ceremonies, and they can choose not to recognize gay marriage for their adherents. But the constitution of the Presbyterian Church does not explicitly forbid a pastor from being a thief, a murderer, or an egotistical jerk. It is not designed to do these things. It does prohibit a gay person from becoming a pastor. All I can ask is: Why?”

    This is me again.

    WHY INDEED

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — March 28, 2011 @ 3:01 pm

  80. @Nathan, oh god, where to start.

    If it is not obvious to you that the entire framework of Christian thought is different, then I think it would really help you out to know not just that it is different by why it is so different.

    It doesn’t matter if the fundamentalist Christian framework is different (don’t blame all Christians for the pig ignorance of a few), it’s INCORRECT. Therefore you can barf all day about how the framework of thought is different, it’s still a bunch of crap.

    The Bible does not teach (as best as I can tell) that there is such a thing as innate, unchanging, irresistible homosexuality.

    That’s because the Bible was written by people we would consider today to be illiterate, so uneducated were they.

    Where we differ is on homosexuality. Most LGBT folks I take it seem to believe that they “discover” that they are LGBT in the same way that I might research my ethnicity and discover that I’m 80% Gypsy.

    What in the hell are you talking about? People “discover” they’re gay when they “discover” that they are attracted to members of the same sex, usually around the onset of puberty, when straight people “discover” that they’re straight.

    Christians just don’t see homosexuality that way because the Bible doesn’t teach it that way.

    Again, remember to add “extremist” or “fundamentalist” to the words “Christians,” because it’s offensive to normal Christians to paint them all with such bigoted views.

    I’m sure there are some in the church who might disagree with me, but I would question that they really take all of the Bible as ultimate authority if they do.)

    Oh good lord, liberal Christians respect the book far more than Fundamentalists do, as they actually try to interpret the spirit of the text, rather than crap translations that confirm bigotry.

    I can say that I would examine any study or any evidence ANYONE has to bring regarding the subject and try as best as I can to fit into my Biblical grid.

    Translation: If the Bible says Jesus rides dinosaurs through the sky on Tuesdays, even though there is no evidence of it, I will do my best to interpret meteorology through my unproven belief that Jesus rides the dinosaurs through the sky on Tuesdays. WIND EXPLAINED! You’re essentially admitting that you filter everything through a book full of false assertions, incorrect information and unprovable woo. That’s sad.

    Lastly, I would say that if you the LGBT community does not want people to find out about ways they can counseled and convinced to leave an LGBT lifestyle, then this is a victory for you. But you can’t keep everyone from finding out, and I don’t think that you will be able to convince everyone that those who want to see LGBTs leave the lifestyle are out to get them, brainwash them, or hate on them.

    There is no evidence that gay people can change their sexual orientation, myriad evidence that they cannot, and myriad evidence that efforts to do so are harmful. Them’s the facts. If you’re going to put that through your “filter,” I can do nothing for you.

    As an open inquiry, why does so much of the LGBT response to Biblical Christianity have to be characterized as hate speech?

    Because your conception of “biblical christianity,” much like radical Islam, inherently disrespects our dignity as human beings. You only can’t see this because, due to your filter, you have rendered yourself unable to think for yourself.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 28, 2011 @ 3:26 pm

  81. Nathan,

    What you are “explaining” is not news. Many, if not most, of us here are all too familiar with the Christian perspective as it is used continually to bludgeon us for being who we are. Some of us here are believers. I am an ex-born again, so I well know from the inside EXACTLY what they are saying and EXACTLY what they mean by it and EXACTLY what their motivations and intentions are when they say it.

    Further, the opposition to the app was not about preventing people from finding out about an “exit ministry.” It was about pulling an app that violates Apple’s own TOS prohibiting hate speech. Exodus regularly engages in hate speech against LGBTQ, not because they offer “a way out” but because they characterize us, wrongly, as broken, evil, sick, leading lives of extreme unhappiness… as generally inferior beings. Exodus also affiliates itself with organizations and individuals notorious for their opposition to any civil rights for LGBTQ. Worse, their target demographic for the app was teens / young people who are most likely to believe all the lies. AND WHO ARE MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO DEEP PSYCHOLOGICAL HARM, including SUICIDE, because they most likely also don’t have the resources to fend off the disinformation.

    And yes, I think we can be reasonably sure when Biblical quotes are used against us, that it is indeed hate speech, no matter how loving the quoters would like to delude themselves into believing they are being. The Bible can be made to say anything you would like it to, as can be demonstrated by historical precedent. Every time it is twisted to say something new the adherents claim that they “believe what the Bible REALLY says” and happily refuse to take responsibility for the judgments they pass, “because that’s what GOD says.”

    It is so transparent on this end, that God is made in the image of the believer – and that what God condemns and hates is in fact EXACTLY what the believer condemns and hates. They don’t get a pass because God hated us first (and yes, their God hates us, because we’re abomination, going to hell, should be stoned to death). Nor does it justify the animus with which they want to deny us civil rights (God says we’re so evil that it behooves them to start punishing us now).

    Comment by Brian — March 28, 2011 @ 3:48 pm

  82. Evan– what you said.

    i seem to have a bee in my bonnet today about people who don’t understand the difference between self-righteous, righteous, and right.

    Nathand wrote: “I can say that I would examine any study or any evidence ANYONE has to bring regarding the subject and try as best as I can to fit into my Biblical grid.”

    no, you can’t and no, you won’t. you can con yourself with that kind of remark to justify being a moralizing, iggerunt busybody, but you won’t be conning us.

    If you were actually serious about it, you would already have googled some variations of “theological perspective on homosexuality” to find out just how much disagreement there is with this so-called biblical perspective, and why it is very likely that anti-gay bigotry in religion is just plain old prejudice dressed up in its sunday go to meetin’ clothes, given a veneer thin coating of respectability by religious belief.

    Because God is what you use to justify what you cannot justify by any other means.

    Your going to have to do a lot better than mouthing selfrighteous bull hockey if you wanna play with the big boys.

    Reverend gene can point you to a couple of theologians who might change your mind. Or you can just start being a compassionate, understanding human being instead of self-righeous, iggerunt, moralizing busybody.

    the choice is yours.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — March 28, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  83. Nathan, without meaning to be unkind, did you even think before you made those ridiculous statements about how “Christians” think, as if some overwhelming supermajority think that way? In fact polls show most individual Christians do not, and whole Denominations, from the Presbyterians to the Lutherans to the Episcopalians etc.etc. welcome and ordain Gay clergy and their gay parishioners as the Gay people whom God made them to be.

    Please, think of this before you make such sweeping, and inaccurate, statements as you have about Christians! They are not a bunch of literalist, poorly educated fundamentalists, and don’t deserve to be painted with that brush.

    Comment by Gene — March 28, 2011 @ 4:05 pm

  84. Nathan “People don’t have to surrender to lying, greed, gossip, murder, robbery, or rape.”.

    Statements like that sum up your fundamental misunderstanding and immoral and hateful attitude. Gayness hurts no one and yet like the unthinking robot you are you equate it with things that are very harmful and immoral. And then people like you wonder why LGBTs look at you in disgust.

    Nathan said “I can say that I would examine any study or any evidence ANYONE has to bring regarding the subject and try as best as I can to fit into my Biblical grid. Whatever your “grid” is, I hope that you would do the same. Do you want truth, or do you want to preserve your current opinion?”.

    My grid is evidence and truth, yours is not, its prejudgement through an ancient book of myths written by ignorant bronze age bigots. That’s the problem with people like you. You pretend to want the truth and yet you openly acknowledge you filter all evidence through your biblical grid, thus filtering out any truth that disagrees with what you’ve prejudged the conclusions to be.

    If you want truth you have to put aside all of your bible, look at the evidence, and then decide what conclusions follow from the evidence. No one who does that will ever come to the conclusion that the bible should ever be used to interpret things.

    That’s why I despise people like you. You don’t look at the evidence and what is moral to draw conclusions, you blindly accept the primitive bible and filter out the truth so only that which is compatible with your chosen beliefs gets through. You are not a rational person, you’ve chosen to be a bigot first and then seek only the evidence (however flimsy it may be) which confirms your prejudgement.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 28, 2011 @ 4:22 pm

  85. Nathan H, I hate to beat a dead horse, but, you have to realize that what you’re saying isn’t new to us. Many, if not most, of the people who come on this site and who signed this petition come from a religious background so it’s not going to be a matter where you tell us what the other side is thinking and suddenly we all go, “Oh, I didn’t know that–that makes it okay to try to rope children into these “therapies”. Maybe you don’t understand that we could have known–and even accepted these “gospels” and still not agree with you. We know what and how these fundamentalist Christians think–and we know they’re wrong.

    Comment by Daniel — March 28, 2011 @ 6:19 pm

  86. Anybody who is an out and out liar deserves the label, loser, Wayne. You and your organization are targeting youth to accept the normalization of homosexuality but you’re whining and complaining about your opposites, organizations, usually Christian, that promote traditional sexual morality. Of course, the difference being you don’t see groups like AFTAH or their equivalent on Bill O’Reilly or other shows because even the dreaded Fox won’t have a real debate on this issue because of cowardice and political correctness. If Aftah or an equivalent organization tried to pressure a company to kill a pro-gay app, I would support freedom of choice; unlike you, I’m honest and have integrity. You’re a coward and unwilling to admit you won’t defend religious liberty because you see it, rightfully so, as standing in the way of homosexual normalization. I defend freedom of choice regardless of how I feel about homosexuality. Of course if you honestly believed in the ineffectiveness of groups like Aftah and Exodus Intl., you wouldn’t be so paranoid and tyrannical (indeed, Nazi-like!) in trying to get their ideas and promotions banned from the open marketplace, would you? That’s what makes you dishonest. Good thing for you you have a lot of sycophants in the MSM, even Fox!, otherwise you’d actually have to work at your cause. Just don’t whine like a little girl at how persecuted you are; it’s really unseemly.

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 2:29 pm

  87. I think AC is a Poe.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 29, 2011 @ 2:34 pm

  88. Nathan H.-It doesn’t matter how good your intentions are. People like Besen are well aware of your argument; they have zero interest in debating it. They know there is a fundamental tension between religious freedom and homosexual normalization; their solution is to crush the former in order to advocate the latter. They’re just too dishonest/cowardly to admit to as much. Hence their attempt to portray religious freedom as bigotry and hatred. Honest individuals (including honest homosexuals like Justin Raimondo for example) stand up for freedom of choice. You won’t find such people in Besen’s crowd. They are bigots, plain and simple, and despise religious freedom. They’ve already succeeded quite a bit in a country like Britain.

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 2:44 pm

  89. AC — keep talking. Truth-challenged fanatics like you are the cause of the decline of fundamentalism in the US, Canada and Western Europe.

    Your ideas are uninspiring. Your arguments are unconvincing. Your worldview is backwards and intolerant.

    Religious freedom is alive and well. And, what drives you nuts is that countless people have freely chosen not to associate with the irrational extremism you and others of your ilk represent.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — March 29, 2011 @ 2:50 pm

  90. Some kinda crA-C here.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — March 29, 2011 @ 2:50 pm

  91. Right, people are “free” to choose,…until people like you decide to censor products on the free market. At least I have an argument! Your lack of any real argument to defend your intolerance only confirms what I’ve said. I suppose you’re in a long line of militant leftists, the ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ school. Don’t get too cocky, though; America ain’t Europe as they long ago ceased to care about religious freedom. Why don’t you get Bill O’Reilly to ask Peter LaBarbera or David Kupelian to come on his show if you’re so self-righteously confident and unafraid of any real debate? Then I’d be impressed.

    You can’t simultaneously brag about acceptance of sexual perversity and suppression of religious liberty AND complain about invented stories of poor teens being dragged off to reeducation camps. Which is it, Wayne? Are you winning or are you a helpless victim?

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 3:45 pm

  92. Bigots like AC are all uptight about their “freedom” to oppress gays being taken away. Your intolerance can’t be tolerated AC. Is that all your religion is about, being anti-gay? Obviously so if you think there’s “fundamental tension between religious freedom and equal rights for gays”. What a trivial little hatefilled “christianity” you have.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 29, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  93. Nothing encompasses the ignorance is bliss school better than the leftist believer of “your intolerance cannot be tolerated”. Just says it all, doesn’t it?

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 4:03 pm

  94. So tell me AC, if a serial killer asks you for tolerance would you say his behavior should be tolerated? Obviously not. The same goes for the efforts of bigots like you to deny gays equal rights.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 29, 2011 @ 4:14 pm

  95. You’re not one for reading comprehension are you? I already said I wouldn’t support censor of a pro-gay app; you would and do support censorship. Your intolerance is unfortunately tolerated in the nazi mindset of anti-religious bigotry.

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 4:25 pm

  96. Here comes AC again typing idiotic things that he has no knowlege of and making Nazi comparisons. He lives to troll another day.

    Comment by Daniel — March 29, 2011 @ 4:37 pm

  97. AC said “You’re not one for reading comprehension are you? I already said I wouldn’t support censor of a pro-gay app;”.

    I comprehend perfectly. I never said you would oppose a gay supportive app. It is you who has trouble with reading comprehension, you’re imagining I’ve said things I haven’t.

    AC “you would and do support censorship.”.

    Apple is a private company, they are allowed to choose who they allow to use their platform. Its not censorship for them to decide they won’t allow hate apps such as anti-semetic, anti-black, or anti-gay. If Apple were a church refusing to announce the wedding of a gay couple you’d be all for their “freedom of association”.

    AC said “Your intolerance is unfortunately tolerated in the nazi mindset of anti-religious bigotry.”.

    The Nazis were rabidly anti-gay, just like you and yours. Once again, tolerance is only required for the harmless, the harmfull must not be tolerated. Just like rapists, murderers, and thieves your anti-gay oppression cannot be tolerated while tolerance demands that harmless people like gays and gay accepting christians be tolerated.

    Once again, you equate opposition to the oppression of gays as anti-religious. That says a lot about what you perceive your religion to be – a trivial, hateful religon whose sole reason for being is to oppress gays. What a disgusting, evil religion you have.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 29, 2011 @ 4:46 pm

  98. “They” didn’t decide anything. They caved to pressure from intolerant haters like you, who can’t stand that millions of people don’t approve of homosexuality and they’d like to use apples and their software as well. Which is “not to be tolerated” according to your twisted notion of “tolerance”. Apparently all products on the market must agree with homosexual celebration? It’s all quite Orwellian and propagandistic, and, I assure you, very similar to the Nazi’s political tactics. I stand by my original assessment of your reading comp. skills.

    The Nazis thought they were doing good too in their intolerance for those who disagreed. So you have quite a lot in common, believe me, even if you’re too ignorant to see it.

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 5:03 pm

  99. AC–you need to study history. Go back and actually find out what Nazis did–don’t just get your information from Glenn Beck.

    Comment by Daniel — March 29, 2011 @ 5:04 pm

  100. Right AC, the Nazis murdered and imprisoned thousands of gays, just like you they didn’t approve of gayness either, they’re your brothers in arms.

    Apple wasn’t under any obligation to listen to us, they realized their mistake and that one must tolerate the harmless and not tolerate those who seek to do harm, like you and exodus and their anti-gay app.

    AC said “I stand by my original assessment of your reading comp. skills.”.

    People who aren’t very bright usually do stand by idiotic statments they make.

    We don’t hate anti-gay christians, we oppose your hatred. Surely we can agree that being anti-gay isn’t the totality of who you are, that its an insignificant part of who you are. Or is that all you’re about – “not approving” of gayness? Is that all your religion is about is being anti-gay? Can you honestly say that if you don’t spew your anti-gay hatred that a significant part of your religious freedom is being oppressed? You do realize that religious freedom can’t be absolute, don’t you? You do realize that your right to freedom has to be balanced with other people’s right to freedom, don’t you? Or do you think that religious freedom means you have the right to kill every gay you meet because your right to religious freedom is absolute and gay people’s right to life is subordinate to your religious freedom?

    Comment by Priya Lynn — March 29, 2011 @ 5:14 pm

  101. AC, your comparison of gay-equality-activism to Nazi tactics is a breathtaking case of PROJECTION. If anyone were to have “GOD WITH US” inscribed on their belt buckles, they would be in your camp, not ours.

    Comment by Richard Rush — March 29, 2011 @ 5:22 pm

  102. post this

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 10:06 pm

  103. Seems I’m being censored. Oh well. Knowing Besen I’m surprised it took this long.

    Comment by AC — March 29, 2011 @ 10:09 pm

  104. The following is the letter I have just despatched to Apple reflecting my own opinion and conviction on the actions by Apple in removing an app from it’s roster:

    Recently I received word that Apple was pulling an iTune app for Exodus International due to public pressure from – chiefly from Truth Wins Out and their associated groups. This, because of claimed ‘hate’ and ‘bigotry’ that Exodus is alleged to promote in their campaigns.
    Over this last generation I’ve witnessed many a boycott by the LGBT membership that, while they experienced short-term positive effects from their economic efforts, in the long-term were far overshadowed by the same in Christian boycotts against those who acquiesced to the pro-homosexual lobby.
    Is this a risk that Apple is willing to risk economically? Does it make sense to place financial viability and stability in a precarious situation particularly in this uncertain economic climate?
    While I’m neither an apple products owner nor subscriber I know not a few individuals who are owners and subscribers to the apple product line.
    These same owners/subscribers also happen to be fellow Believers, and they are very interested in the censuring of a Christian organization as much as I am.
    I’ll let them know of recent events and let their conscience speak for itself. I can only hope that Apple comes to it’s senses and lets the bottom line and it’s eminence in the marketplace be the basis for this decision.
    Thank you for your time

    Please be so kind as to let me know is there is any hate, bigotry or intolerance in this letter.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — March 31, 2011 @ 5:22 am

  105. Maybe not overtly, but there’s a lot of ignorance there. Replace the word “LGBT” with “black” or “Jewish”, and replace the word “Believer” or “Christian” with “white supremacist”, and see how it sounds.

    Also, you should take a look here to see the true nature of Apple’s so-called Christian censorship.

    Apple does have its bottom line in mind. That’s why they don’t want to be associated with anti-gay bigotry, because they know it’s bad for business.

    Comment by Makyui — March 31, 2011 @ 5:30 am

  106. So, aside from your insinuation and intolerance, it was pretty good then?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — March 31, 2011 @ 6:27 am

  107. It was pretty much exactly what I expected it to be.

    Comment by Makyui — March 31, 2011 @ 6:37 am

  108. Thank you :).

    Comment by Dean from Canada — March 31, 2011 @ 6:39 am

  109. Nooo, thank you.

    Comment by Makyui — March 31, 2011 @ 6:41 am

  110. Upon the challenge to do so (in one of the above entries) I have just read the Manhattan Declaration and I’ve found it to be among the most noble and compassionate of proclamations I’ve ever read. Within it I’ve found no hatred of anything or anyone except for the leaving behind those who need care, and those who would leave them in the dust behind them respectively. Any time a group reaches out to the less fortunate and downtrodden it ought to be lauded and supported by any and all interested parties.
    Unfortunately, maligned alongside of the Manhattan Declaration is Exodus International who has worked along nearly idendical ethos and agenda, and has done so without any tax dollars and a minimum of media exposure save predominantly attack ads and like interviews. I post them here as I’d rather let their words and heart speak for themselves.

    http://exodusinternational.org/2011/03/apple-suppresses-diversity-by-pulling-iphone-application/

    Comment by Dean from Canada — March 31, 2011 @ 7:30 am

  111. That’s because you’ve got the brains of a rotten chestnut.

    Comment by Makyui — March 31, 2011 @ 8:07 am

  112. epic loss for free speech. :(

    Comment by Mikey Queen — April 3, 2011 @ 5:13 pm

  113. Dean:

    Are you serious? Really?

    It is rare that I have come across a person with such selective reading abiliity. You simply ignored the bigoted paragraphs and highlighted the few that weren’t bigoted.

    Of course, you fooled no one…but yourself, perhaps.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 3, 2011 @ 10:59 pm

  114. Oh Mikey, shut up and read the article and other articles on the subject before you sound like an idiot. No one has stopped anyone from saying anything. If you’d read up before you blow your mouth off you wouldn’t look like such a troll.

    Comment by Becky — April 4, 2011 @ 1:18 am

  115. I think Dean from Canada is another one of those people directed here from the Exodus website. I bet he’s not even from Canada.

    Comment by Becky — April 4, 2011 @ 1:19 am

  116. Actually, I am from Canada. And, no I wasn’t directed here by Exodus International. It might be difficult for some to believe but there indeed exist those who act soley from their own convictions. Unfortunately, in this case, my beliefs don’t happen to coincide with yours.
    I just thank The Lord that they don’t, and that I am witness to living a miracle of a live. A life that is testimony to His great providence as He has saved me on numerous occasions from certain demise. Were it not so I wouldn’t be making this entry.
    Additionally, God has also saved me from a life that would have otherwise been spent in agony in questioning my own sexuality and sexual curiosity and addiction. This, brought about from an early childhood of extreme sexual abuse from both sexes – traumas which I neither can nor wish to remember in their entirety.
    For decades I wished harm to those who perpetrated these acts on me which, in turn, caused me to have unhealthy cravings and desires. But, upon coming to my life that I know in Christ Jesus, I have been set free not just from wanting vengeance on these people, but also from the hate, pity and (most importantly) the wanton fleshly desires I had at one time. Instead, they were replaced with a peace beyond all understanding, a joy in all things, a unlimited love for my neighbours, and a wonderful and satisfying life I share with my wife and (shortly to arrive) child. How this family of our came about is, in itself, a miracle – if you’re interested I’ll post the story.
    But just so you know that this isn’t just some dumb Christian spouting off from a hate-filled and bigoted belief, here are a number of things which I’ve put together to let you know of that which I’ve been blessed to share with all people.

    http://www.4shared.com/document/231zJowK/Ode__Owed__To_The_Income_Tax.html

    http://www.4shared.com/document/ubnXwamb/The__Un_Constitutional_Act.html

    http://www.4shared.com/document/RdGwgzfn/A_Humble_Prayer_of_Thanks.html

    http://www.4shared.com/video/81Iir0u_/WaterFuel1.html

    http://www.4shared.com/document/8nYIP_kZ/How_to_Prepare_for_the_Crash.html

    The times that are coming will make what we’ve seen already look absolutely peachy, and understanding why many things aren’t good, fair or equal will enable all of us to make a better go of it.

    Anything else I’ve posted in the website file you’re all welcome to enjoy as well.

    P.S. Wayne Besen: In life there many opportunities for us to improve and learn, and I’m no exception to this (just as my wife ;) ). I pray that, as you follow in your chosen field, you continue gain from that which many can provide for you, and that it give you a richer and greater understanding of what it means to be human and, more importantly, a blessedly redeemed soul.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 4, 2011 @ 4:02 am

  117. I can’t decide whether AC is the stupidest person on the planet or Dean is the stupidest person on the planet. It’s too bad there’s not software I can plug their words into to find an answer. I mean, we’re talking about a Douglas Feith level of stupid here, and that’s mindblowing. Not even Snooki is as stupid as Douglas Feith.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — April 4, 2011 @ 11:33 am

  118. Dean said “Please be so kind as to let me know is there is any hate, bigotry or intolerance in this letter.”.

    You’re calling for an app to be reinstated that demonizes and seeks to oppress gays and lesbians. The core of your letter is hate, bigotry and intolerance.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 4, 2011 @ 12:07 pm

  119. Priya Lynn & Makyui: In the e-mail I sent to Appple, replace the term “LGBT” with “Christian”, and the terms “Christian” and “Believer” with “gays and transgendered”. If done this way you would likely not find any ‘hate’, ‘bigotry’ or ‘intolerance’ in the slightest. If so, this would be highly non-sequitor and ex parte. After all, if one group can put the squeeze on a company for doing what that group finds ‘offensive’ or ‘hateful’, what is wrong with another group doing similarly to do achieve the same?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 4, 2011 @ 1:20 pm

  120. Dean you ignorant s**t. If there was an app that used the same terms against Christians that this one did against the GLBT people it would never have been approved. If you can’t pay attention to the whole subject you really shouldn’t comment.

    Comment by Daniel — April 4, 2011 @ 4:18 pm

  121. “We acknowledge that there are those who are disposed towards homosexual and polyamorous conduct and relationships, just as there are those who are disposed towards other forms of immoral conduct. We have compassion for those so disposed; we respect them as human beings possessing profound, inherent, and equal dignity; and we pay tribute to the men and women who strive, often with little assistance, to resist the temptation to yield to desires that they, no less than we, regard as wayward. We stand with them, even when they falter. We, no less than they, are sinners who have fallen short of God’s intention for our lives. We, no less than they, are in constant need of God’s patience, love and forgiveness. We call on the entire Christian community to resist sexual immorality, and at the same time refrain from disdainful condemnation of those who yield to it. Our rejection of sin, though resolute, must never become the rejection of sinners. For every sinner, regardless of the sin, is loved by God, who seeks not our destruction but rather the conversion of our hearts. Jesus calls all who wander from the path of virtue to “a more excellent way.” As his disciples we will reach out in love to assist all who hear the call and wish to answer it.”

    - from the hateful, intolerant, bigoted and ignorant Manhattan Declaration

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 5, 2011 @ 1:28 am

  122. Dean: get a life of your own.

    Comment by Paul Douglas — April 5, 2011 @ 4:08 am

  123. Yeah, Dean, they love the homos who are filled with shame and self-loathing about their sexuality-who see it as somethey have to “struggle with”.
    If we don’t feel that way about ourselves, they DO hate us. Don’t delude yourself.

    Comment by Bill S — April 5, 2011 @ 5:50 am

  124. For your benefit, I placed the link to this page on my facebook so that those who are unaligned or unbiased can see the haters for themselves. Those who know me will know that, true to character, what I’ve offered here is out of my care and concern for my fellow human beings. If you don’t see the heart-felt compassion I have for those even in this comment page, the loss is yours. But, I stand undaunted in doing the moral thing and not accusing, casting aspersion, rendering labels or epithets when I have no argument, and holding true to the example that Christ Jesus showed when he reached out to those who longed and searched for a way out of bondage. More importantly, he knew few would recieve his message of hope, redemption and eternal life. This is my message to all here, too. Take it or leave it along with whatever I have offered here. And, no, I won’t request that the links to my on-line file store be taken down for the hostility proferred to me. That’s not what Jesus would do, so I won’t either. But, check in to it from time to time as I add to it on occasion.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 5, 2011 @ 7:53 am

  125. Dean, your a fool.
    Find a better church. The United Church of Canada is a great example, and they can correct some of the bigotry and hatred for gay people you express by the very suggestion we need to find Christ, when so many of us HAVE. Speak to those who don’t, if you wish, and no, not all will be interested, but it is Arrogant of you to suggest, using theology as discredited as the Biblical support of racism and slavery, that we need to stop being Gay to be loved by, and love God. The many Gay Christians, Gay pastors, Gay Bishops etc. are not in Bondage.

    Grow up. You sound like a lowly fundamentalist

    Your own hatred has shown itself very well. Indeed, it is the “but we speak in Luuuvvvv” talk that just shows the “unaligned” how off you are. It just does not ring true, and after seeing this, the “unaligned” are on our side.

    Move on…and tell those who suggested you post here just how much you have achieved.

    Goodbye.

    Comment by Gene — April 5, 2011 @ 8:58 am

  126. I do, although you did not realize you did it, admitting that the Manhattan Declaration is an evil thing.

    Let me interpret what your quote of it really means.

    “We are from an inferior form of Christianity that thrives on fear, and motivating our members by fear of what they do not know. We will, using the language of love, denigrate the relationships, families, and basic desires of gay people, and will work, using pretty language, to make sure that these people hurt. We will work, using pretty language of love, to make sure that their families are not given the respect they deserve, or rights our families, which are falling apart on their own, take for granted. In doing so, we hope to extend our time of power and influence in a society that is more and more rejecting us, and our version of Christianity, that instead of putting all its energy into helping the poor and weak, is focusing its energy in saving the world from the heinous propect of two women in Ohio who have adopted two special needs kids and have a happy family, will get the respect and benefits of marriage. We know we need to do this now, because we know that society is moving against this, and towards respecting and accepting this family…and that is a threat to us…to our power, our denominational structures, and our sense that we need to guide you ALL as we see fit, from our interpretation of Scripture. Now, go quietly to the corner, feel dirty and sinful, and ask God to forgive you. Ignore the many Traditional Mainline churches that support and show Gods True love for you, and pretend the families you have built, and the love in them, is not real, or a gift from God. We NEED you to. If you don’t WE, a group of bitter old white guys, and a smattering of bigots of color, will feel bad. Of course, we say all of this “In LOVE”

    I am glad to know that you see it as the hateful, bigoted thing it is.

    Comment by Gene — April 5, 2011 @ 9:08 am

  127. Dean:

    With all your words you have only proven one point — and that is you have a very distorted idea of what the word “love” actually means.

    No thanks to your bizarre, twisted version of love. It looks a little too much like hate wrapped up with a pretty bow.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 5, 2011 @ 9:39 am

  128. I’ll be back sometime when my words (among others) aren’t read into, when my sincerity isn’t betrayed, and when my actions aren’t held up to suspicion for no other reason than that I happen to believe opposite to those who run or are members of this outlet.
    However, In looking at my contributions in a positive light, I’m sure that I gave more than enough for those here with objective intellect something to consider in that I didn’t return insult for insult, aspersion for aspersion, nor name for name. More than enough foul rhetoric has been brought to the fore which displays a great lack of character and tolerance by many here.
    It must appear to the average intellect and clear mind utterly absurd to see this sort of behaviour when there’s an issue that ought to be in clear, level-headed discussion and not be allowed to denigrate into verbal fisticuffs and sentence-based bullying. Rational and reasoned discourse must always be the means to achieve understanding, and anything short is a waste of words, good will and time.
    So, I say to Wayne Besen and all of his supporters: savour the hard-won victories, enjoy sweet success, and eat, drink and be merry. In life one must appreciate the best that there is to offer, and not one second should be spent unwisely.
    But, know this – for every battle there is always somebody higher up giving the orders. To know who is responsible just take a couple of steps back and look up to see who is pulling the strings. When we all do this simple little exercise (finding out wher the orders came from) all parties can leave the battlefield knowing that the conflict was unnecessary, and that the real enemy has been exposed.
    For further information, look up Agenda 21.
    That’s all for now, see you when you’re ready to aim at a more worthy target. ;)

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 5, 2011 @ 4:55 pm

  129. Oh Dean, your word’s aren’t being “read into” they’re being read and found to be the idiotic ramblings that they are.

    As for coming back, why? You’re not going to get any smarter and we’re not going to get any dumber.

    Comment by Daniel — April 5, 2011 @ 5:14 pm

  130. Agenda 21?

    Did you just slip over the line into conspiracy theories? If not, what does a UN plan for development have to do with the manhattan declaration?

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 5, 2011 @ 5:31 pm

  131. Has this guy quoted “After The Ball” yet?

    Comment by Emily K — April 5, 2011 @ 7:01 pm

  132. Ben, if you’re truly interested look up ‘Radio Liberty’ and their archives on gcnlive.com. The 40+ years of reserch that is used by this program is indisputable. As for Agenda 21 relating to the Manhattan Declaration, look up all you can about sustainability – particularly where population control is concerned. To achieve this, social engineering has been required to convince us we need to live sustainably. I’ll let you do the research to find out how the methodologies with which this will be achieved.
    Conspiracy theories? I have in my collection the 1992 edition of a report issued by the World Bank that discusses at great length Agenda 21 and how it will be implememented.
    Thank you for your inquiry, if there’s anything else you need to know I can be contacted via Beraca Sighisoara (in Romania) where I work with my wife to fight against domestic abuse.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 2:32 am

  133. No Dean. I showed your words to a group of four 16 year olds I work with, and they had EXACTLY the effect I expected them to.

    For that. I thank you. You helped four young people see the sanctimonious, shallow, fake “love” you offer, and better understand why my side now calls you out as bigots now; because it is true, and other people are not afraid to agree now. For your info, 3 young men, one young woman, all hetero.

    No one disparaged you. I just accurately pointed out what the heinous “Declaration” really said when you read under the pretty verbage.

    Deal with it

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 7:32 am

  134. One last thing…pointing out YOUR arrogance is not arrogance or name calling. Point out the AMAZINGLY insulting message of the Declaration you defend is just being honest about how it, and you, have insulted us, and you never responded politely and thanfully when I pointed out to you, Dean from Canada (now in Romania) that there are, in your home country, MUCH better and higher quality churches that could teach you a great deal abouthow to become an ethical and good person than you have found so far

    By the way, I work with abused kids, in a homeless shelter, and with church organzation building wells in subsaharan Africa, but felt no need to point that out in my sign off. OF course,it had not become obvious to myself and others that I had lost the argument, those I had expected to roll over and go “Oh thank you for making us see we are wretched” not only did not do so, but pointed out I was the immoral one for supporting bigotry, and thus wanted to leave with a sentence that was unnecessary and was designed to evoke an “awwww…I do good things, be nice to me” moment, when I could have just said, I can be contacted at….

    Now, when all else has failed, you bring up (HAW, HAW, HAW…evillll laugh from a bad movie) another warning of how we are pawns of “Moster Plan” (trying to use an evil sounding accent there…hard to do in a written message.

    Did it ever dawn on you that maybe we are offened by the Manahttan Declaration because it would codify laws that hurt our families? Did it ever occur to you we can think for ourselves? That there are lesbian couples like the one in Florida where one dies alone while her wife and kids are kept away from her in the next room because the b***h conservative administrators who told her widow that “this is a conservative area, and you are not a real family” will, if the convicted criminal Colson and his lot get their way, will be the law of the land?

    DO YOU TRY TO FIND NEW WAYS TO INSULT PEOPLE? Or are you just a born natural?

    No one needs to be “Herded”. We know who are enemies are. They, and you, have made that plain.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 7:50 am

  135. Gene;
    I’m thankful that ben in Oakland is genuinely concerned enough to learn more about not just what I have to offer, but who the real enemy is. I’m sure he’s old enough to have looked at what information I’ve made available and is interested in learning more and judging for himself what’s most important to him.
    Like yourself, I’ve also found that a great many young people are needing good information from which to base their opinions and to watch out for. Unfortunately, the public education system has also made the youth and much of the average population easily swayed and pliable to as to uncritically accept whatever they’ve been told – good or bad, and usually bad if they watch major network news. Worse, when forceful personalities have them already conditioned to see certain viewpoints as hateful, bigoted, intolerant, etc…
    Perhaps you ought to go to the links I provided earlier and print the matter out for those kids you showed my earlier stuff to so as to make a much better opinion of what I have to say. If nothing else, you yourself would have a far greater grasp of what my opinion is based upon and even learn something you didn’t know already.
    That you would go so far as to share some of my words with them shows that you wish to do as I have done previously as a researcher, writer and radio show host and confirm what you believe to be true. In this, the next reasonable step for you to take would be to either prove or disprove what I’ve already had published and discussed at length over my former program.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 8:03 am

  136. one more thing Gene: should you wish to pursue the avenue I offer to you, here is one more link to my on-line storage file:

    http://www.4shared.com/document/JrOscxDO/Letter_to_Englands_queen.html

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 8:38 am

  137. I have already heard of it, even read about it. It is not news to me. In post 130, I believe Ben asked you if you had slipped over the line into conspiracy theory by the way. I don’t know him that well, but from what I have seen, and his words here, I fail to see why you wrote what you said about him. Oh, and by the way, I am hardly young, being in my 40′s and all. Young as church elders go I suppose…but, hardly young.

    By the way…as you should know, being from Canada, she is the Queen of your country also.
    Bye.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 9:12 am

  138. Gene;
    Obviously, being the head of Canada’s entirety, I wrote the queen of England as, in order for her to be the monarch in the ‘constitutional monarchy’, she has to be constitutional. But, for at least a century, they have been anything but the case in ruling over the corporative state that is Canada. Reading the document available in the link I just posted will reveal to you much that is legally and historically factual. I’ve send many copies of it abroad and not one opinion has been offered to disprove any of it – not even queen Elizabeth herself.
    By the way, you ought to have read what I just posted a bit more carefully – I didn’t refer to you as being young, I was referring to the youth of both Canada and the U.S.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 9:38 am

  139. didn’t bother to read your letter…for obvious reasons.

    I did make a mistake in misreading post 135…you were referring to other young people, not me. But it was that (my error) mistake I was referring to. Not the US or Canada.

    So…you are, uh, surprised, not to have gotten any responses, even from Queen Elizabeth II herself?
    wow

    bye

    (the scary thing is, there are people who might take this man seriously when he talks about OUR rights!)

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 9:45 am

  140. Actually I am – at least in the long run. For, if a right can be denied to one group, what’s to stop it from being denied to another? And, as history under tyrants and dictatorships has shown, once one group has been eliminated as the opposition, all others are up for grabs. Worse, those who assisted in getting rid of the threats to the nation were also eliminated – remember the Nazi brown-shirts?
    So, if we stolid Christians are gotten out of the way – especially those of us who call ourselves patriots, constitutionalists,etc… – who will there be to inform of and defend the rights of everybody else?
    Just so you know, I’ve handed out documents titled ‘An Act Respecting Certain Rights and Liberties of the People’ and the ‘Canadian Bill of Rights, 1960′ (also in my on-line file) to anybody who accepted them – without restriction. This, due to the fact that the media, jurisprudence, governance and educational fields have long ceased to do so. And, it’s due to this that the rights of all Canadians have been taken lock, stock and barrel. After all, if one doesn’t know one’s rights, how can one defend them?
    This is my legacy to my fellow Canadians, and one that I pray others continue in.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 10:13 am

  141. Dean– I think you have slipped over that line. sustainability as an uber-communist (or fascist) plot? Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people don’t have enough to eat, clean water to drink. Pollution. Medical care.

    As for this “For, if a right can be denied to one group, what’s to stop it from being denied to another?”

    There you have the Christian jihad and problem, in a nutshell. I would love to be able to vote on a law in california that denies legal divorce, and refuses recognition of divorce in other juridictions where the marriage was performed in california.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 6, 2011 @ 10:54 am

  142. I forgot one thing: it’s unfortunate that you would continue unabated without taking pause to see what your enemy is about and download what I’ve written. After all, isn’t the purpose of any ‘jihad’ to know your enemy? How astounding that such an intellect as yourself would turn his nose up at what is historically and legally verifiable and put together into quite cohesive and compelling arguments. To these, many a mind of status has been impressed and taken aback depending on the individual. Perhaps I erred in thinking you’d appreciate what many have previously.
    As for arguing over marriage, I’ll let my research and writings speak for themselves. And, as for ‘conspiracy theory’, if confirmable evidence to prove a theory (unproven/unproveable idea) emerges it’s no longer theory is it?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  143. Oh Dean. In Arabic, Jihad means personal struggle. A secondary meaning is Holy War, which is how Ben accurately used it to describe what fundamentalist Christians are waging on us (At the Republican Convention some years back Pat Buchannan used the term “culture war”, which describes rather well what they have been waging…and losing, on us and others).

    I get the impression that Ben rather well knows your point of view…and your own words show you have precious little knowledge of him, or us.

    I have read a lot of what you make refenece to. Its conspiracy theory crap, and thats being kind. Actually, I LOVE reading this sort of stuff. But, I have always had a dark sense of humor. I also know that if evidence is confirmable, and a massive cover up could so easily be “blown” the capitalist press (and I am a capitalist) would be all over it for ratings, which would make them more money.

    But they are not.
    Because it’s crap.
    And I hope you put ALL these posts somewhere on your site, because I want people who read your thoughts on Gay issues to see what ELSE you buy into.

    Sad attempt at response to Bens insightful, and incisive, comment on the Jihad you ARE on. But, really, how CAN you defend the morally undefendable?

    You must like Romania…Canada is a tolerant place, where most people are educated, fair and not fanatical. It must feel odd when you are home.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  144. Actually, home is with my wife and child wherever we are. As for Canada being tolerant, it’s amazing how tolerant a population can be when ‘political correctness’ becomes law no matter that it’s never been codified; ‘hate crimes’ have become enforceable with only pure emotionalism and sentiment to go by; and human rights tribunals have the power to fine, impose legal penalties and sanctions despite the fact that they legally have no standing as they’re in violation of due process.
    As for feeling odd when I am ‘at home’ – people actually agree with what I have to say as most of the time they already think the same way (and I know not a few people), and if they don’t they can’t find anything to counter my arguments with. Even funnier, in a animated discussion I had with a fellow searcher, although he argued everything I had to say, he had nothing to offer that disproved what I said as he knew it was true too. Additionall, a gay man who knew me was present there and he agreed with me too as he nodded and smiled with each point I made and all references I pointed out. So, I don’t feel odd at all. As a matter of fact, I will feel almost as if I’d never left as those whom I bid farewell to have missed me awfully and can’t wait for my next visit.
    So, put what I have to say to the test. Take whatever I’ve written and referred to and show it to those you know and see if they see it as crap. I’m willing to have my own material proof-read or analyzed by anybody to see if it has merit. But, it first has to be read. I’m too secure in what I’ve been blessed with not to refuse anybody. Will you accept my offer of free stuff? As you haven’t already, I doubt you will, but others here I’m very sure have and will, and I hope they run with it and use it to shout from the rooftops.
    As I’ve written about, there are a great many criminal activities going on that need to be exposed and few are exposing them. The biggest criminal act is the fraudulent Canadian income tax as, according to my research, not one single penny has gone toward the debt. Yet, even the minister of finance at the time, Sheila Fraser, wouldn’t bother with, nor would the local member of parliament. You see, this is what a peaceable, law-abiding citizen does no matter the outcome. And, like the watchman on the wall, once I’ve done all I can to sound the warning, if none do anything then their blood isn’t on my hands. You and all here are invited to do the same.
    As for capitalism, everybody is a capitalist as we all want to have a bit left over from our paycheques after expenses – in business (which I have a degree in) this is called profit. What most these days fail to see is that ‘capitalism’ has just become an euphemism for ‘monopolism’, and that the major media networks are owned by companies that are owned by members of the Council on Foreign Relations or by members of it. When few own the majority of business, does it not fit the description of a monopoly?
    The same applies to Canada as all information I’ve sent to all forms of media outlets has never been used no matter how historically and legally accurate and, when it did appear, all references to said source material was excised reducing what would have been a solid argument to mere opinion. Yet, those with opposing points of view were allowed to drivel on to the point of waste.
    As for Canada being educated, just look at the history books I have available in my on-line storage file and compare them to what is published these days in Canada. Having compared children’s history books to that which I learned from in high school, I’d say even the teachers would be ashamed of how revised and excised history has become. But, this applies to all subjects ranging from law, to grammar, to physics, to mathematics and even home economics, business and physical education have been inculcated with material that is irrelevant to the subject base.
    Worse, there is something I learned not many years ago. While researching that history part of my letter to queen Elizabeth, an elderly retired teacher saw me and the source material I was using and remarked that she used most of them when she was a teacher. More, she saw the Holy Bible also and stated that it, too, was part of the curriculum before it was taken out of the schools. Strange that such an amount of coincidences should simultaneously occur to two nations where the schools have been ‘dumbed down’ and the same material (political correct/progressive) has been used to supplant the curriculae in both countries.
    I really don’t care if anybody hates me or The Faith, and I’m not at all concerned if what I am convinced of offends – this should be plain to all whe read my entries here. I’m more concerned with sharing what I have with others in the hope that they can use it and even build on it for their betterment and those with whom they send it on to. Far worse are those who seek only their own welfare at the expense of another’s, and I’ve seen a bit too much of that in life. This is perhaps why The Lord has called me to be at the side of a woman whose heart is bent toward serving those who are truly downtrodden and discriminated against, and I’m proud of her for it. She’s sacrificed, worked to exhaustion and never ceased from her calling. I can only aspire to be half the person she is and try to be content in contributing as I can to the foundation, being her husband, and being the father of our baby wherever we are.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 12:43 pm

  145. Dean said “Priya Lynn & Makyui: In the e-mail I sent to Appple, replace the term “LGBT” with “Christian”, and the terms “Christian” and “Believer” with “gays and transgendered”. If done this way you would likely not find any ‘hate’, ‘bigotry’ or ‘intolerance’ in the slightest.”.

    No, you’re wrong. If someone put up an app that demonized and sought to oppress christians I’d be just as opposed to it. You are calling for an app to be reinstated that demonizes and calls for the oppression of gays and lesbians, that is nothing but hateful on your part.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 1:02 pm

  146. Oh hell Dean, your so full of crap and such a Martyr in your own mind. I work for a Canadian company and am in Canada all the time. It seems we don’t know any of the same Canadians. And yes, Canadians are among the most, and best educated people on earth.

    I DID take the time to look at a lot of your stuff, I thought I made that clear. Just for kicks and giggles, but I did. IT IS CRAP. If it was good, valid, provable, and if “THE GREAT CONSPIRACY” was not working to (whisper….keep you quiet and unheard…shuuuuhhh) silence your clarion call was not so amazingly successful (that was something called sarcasm) in its ‘great work’ to keep it under wraps, it would be front page on the Globe and Mail.

    I have read what you believe.
    I am telling you…you are full of crap on the vast majority of this, just as you are on the issue of Gay rights.

    You see Dean, there is a condition where someone thinks only they see the truth…ALL of the local politicians, your MP, the Press, the society, they are ALL alligned against you! Everyone is conspiring to hide the truth! Ah…and you see it. With a clarity that the reporters who make their living raking up anything with even a shred of evidence to back it up to sell papers and airtime miss…that politicals as varied as the Conservatives and Greens in your Parliment miss…you see it. Wow. You see what has eluded the vast, vast majority of your society, both conservative and liberal and in between.

    Good for you!

    And, with that same wonderful example of good mental health, wisdom and humilty, you call for an app to be reinstated that, as Priya Lynn correctly points out, demonized and calls for the oppression of gays and lesbians….but, of course, you use the greater wisdom you have shown, and which has been SO persuasive, “In love” to do so.

    Why, I am stunned, stunned I say, to see no one here seems to be convinced by you.

    Good bye Dean. Get help.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 1:25 pm

  147. I don’t recall anything at all in the Exodus International website that demonizes those average lgbt’s who want to live their own lives and be left alone. In fact, the language is one of compassion and of reaching out to those who are already tortured and in conflict and wish to live outsite of homosexuality. Whatever you infer is up to you.
    But, here’s something for you to chew on. According to articles in The Chatham Daily News (out of Ontario) from just a few years ago, they reported how a lesbian couple in Bothwell, Ontario who make it nobody’s business but their own how they spend their lives with each other. However, in that same article, there was a couple of men who were united under the new gay marriage laws who, by all accounts, continually got in everybody’s faces about themselves and were run out of town for it. Who deserves sympathy more?
    As for an app for a group that celebrated and assisted former Christians into the lgbt lifestyle being removed for pressure from Christian groups, I’ll keep my eye open and, if so, I’ll likely demonize them even more vociferously and vehemently than you. Here’s why: it’s one thing when the secular world uses a double standard, but when the Christian community does it it’s hyprocrisy as we’re supposed to exercise the same standard on others as we do on ourselves. So, while I’m not in agreement with Apple removing an app for those who wish to give up homosexuality, I will not oppose nor act to move others to boycott Apple for apps that are pro-homosexual or advocate for reaching out to Christians who adopt the gay way.
    When Christian recording artist Ray Boltz left his family for homosexuality I saw not one hate piece, capaign to boycott his recordings nor anything negative where he was concerned. I, myself, didn’t agree with it and was dismayed, but he has the same rights to live his life as anybody else.
    So, contrary to what you have to say about me, I truly do respect those who don’t believe as I do. All I ask is for the same in return. But, if that isn’t the case, it would reflect poorly on my part to return the slung mud out of vengeance. As I’m sure you’re quite aware, vengeance belongs to The Lord.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 1:42 pm

  148. Dean, I thought you were going away? If you can’t be bothered to go back and read the backup on this site–in which your idiotic points have all been addressed over and over again I can’t bother to take you seriously.

    Comment by Daniel — April 6, 2011 @ 1:55 pm

  149. Gene: prove my research wrong. If you’re as enlightened as you seem, it ought not be difficult. But, having sent many copies of the letter to queen Elizabeth with the references it carefully delineates to many directions ranging from grassroots to the highest echelons, and not one rebuttal being recieved, what does that tell you? You say you’ve read a lot of my stuff. Where is there any inaccuracy? Where is the err in my conclusions? You used the term ‘crap’ to describe it, so it should be fairly easy to show what mistakes there are in my research. I challenged Lynn Martin with AM 800, CKLW to not only disprove the letter I sent to England’s queen, but I challenged them to show me legal standing for such things as ‘Canadian independence’, ‘political correctness’, and ‘evolution of law’. They belong to a media conglomerate and are intimate with members of the police and the judiciary, so it would have been fairly easy for them to pool from either enormous databases or to refer to their friends in law enforcement and the courts. It’s been almost 6 years and I’ve not heard a thing yet. But, this is no exception in my life. As a matter of fact, its the rule regardless of what others believe about the state of the world.
    Whatever you say about a ‘conspiracy’ in jest is fine. I can only speak to what I’ve found and what you yourself can verify.

    I guess we know vastly different Canada’s as the average citizens I’m familiar with from urban centres to rural farmlans know something has been wrong but only a small fraction of the big picture, and they embrace what I’ve offered and accept it without hesitation. They’ve even done their own research and confirmed my research and saw, themselves, that I knew what I was talking about. To these people I pray for strength to pick up where I have left off, and that they are far more successful than I was.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 2:04 pm

  150. Daniel, remember when I stated ‘see you when you’re ready to aim at a more worthy target’? Well, all it took was one question from one person in here who was genuinely interested in more than petty bickering and inflammatory language, and kudos to him. So, for his sake, I do this, and I’m glad to do so.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 2:10 pm

  151. Oh Dean, you are SO full of s**t.
    Where to begin correcting you? SO many places to start!

    1) if two men were in someones place, it is those someones who need to be SHUT THE HELL UP, so that they can live as a couple wherever they wish to.
    2) WHY do I Have to prove CRAP that is so OUT THERE and STUPID that the major news papers, newsmedia, TV and Radio wont TOUCH? Huh? YOu are like someone from the Flat Earth Society saying “well, its ALL being hidden, no one will report on my findings! Go, read it for yourself and prove me wrong”. SAME thing. Exactly the same thing.
    3) Exodus, by its very nature, and lobbying and working to make sure that we, unlike in Canada, don’t have equal rights, and that people will enter into (profitable as a rule for the operators) programs that NEVER work, and can cause great damage, is, ARE YOU LISTENING? ARE YOU TO STUPID TO HEAR THIS? START LISTENGING AND LEARN, by their very nature, hateful and bigoted.
    4) I have read, and re read the posts here…WHO do you refer to who was interested in your lies, paranoia and conspiracy theories? if they are here, I don’t see them.

    5) There is a reason they did not respond to you…it is the SAME REASON THEY WOULD NOT RESPOND TO THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY. They correctly see you as an imbalanced person and conspiracy theorist.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 2:21 pm

  152. Gene: let those here who see merit in my works do as they will. And, if they wish to speak up let them. Once again, point out the errors/inaccuracies in my works. Or, if you can’t, find those in the appropriate fields do the research and see where the flaws are. This is all I ask.
    But, there’s one thing you can’t argue with: the media blackout where such things as the income tax fraud, the (un)Constitutional Act of 1982, the reformation of the legal system of Canada to one that has circumvented known precepts of law, and a system of governance that is all too willing to do the same. These I’ve written in fair detail about, and which I pray all Canadians are willing to do something about. All else is but a symptom of a government and country gone to pot. For me to be here is either a coincidence or providence.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 2:36 pm

  153. Dean said “I don’t recall anything at all in the Exodus International website that demonizes those average lgbt’s who want to live their own lives and be left alone. In fact, the language is one of compassion and of reaching out to those who are already tortured and in conflict and wish to live outsite of homosexuality.”.

    Oh, b******t, Dean. Alan Chambers regularly says that gayness “isn’t god’s best” and says that gays will be eternally tortured. He says the opposite of gayness is holyness, in other words that gayness is evil. He has said that gays are being used by Satan to destroy the goodness in the world – demonization doesn’t get much more explicit than that.

    Dean said “As for an app for a group that celebrated and assisted former Christians into the lgbt lifestyle being removed for pressure from Christian groups, I’ll keep my eye open and, if so, I’ll likely demonize them even more vociferously and vehemently than you. Here’s why: it’s one thing when the secular world uses a double standard, but when the Christian community does it it’s hyprocrisy as we’re supposed to exercise the same standard on others as we do on ourselves. So, while I’m not in agreement with Apple removing an app for those who wish to give up homosexuality, I will not oppose nor act to move others to boycott Apple for apps that are pro-homosexual or advocate for reaching out to Christians who adopt the gay way.”.

    70% of American gays are Christians, Dean, so spare us the lie that all LGBTs are “former christians”.

    Further, there is no such thing as an LGBT lifestyle. LGBTs have a wide variety of lifestyles and one cannot make any judgements about a person’s lifestyle based on their being LGBT. No one who isn’t already LGBT is going to become LGBT and no LGBT has ever or will every try to convince heterosexuals to convert to LGBT so there is no equivalence between Exodus and LGBT’s supporting people’s right to be LGBT without coercion to attempt to be heterosexual.

    There is no equivalence between an app that demonizes and seeks to oppress gays and one that accepts gays. The appropriate equivalent app to Exodus’s anti-gay app would be one that teaches that Christians are the tool of the devil, evil, doomed to eternal torture and which promotes oppressing christians and denying them equal rights.

    Your comparison is like saying a KKK anti-black app is just as okay as one that affirms black people – it most certainly is not.

    Dean said “When Christian recording artist Ray Boltz left his family for homosexuality I saw not one hate piece, capaign to boycott his recordings nor anything negative where he was concerned. I, myself, didn’t agree with it and was dismayed, but he has the same rights to live his life as anybody else.”.

    Not true Dean. Just like Jennifer Knapp and Chely Wright, most christian radio stations christian bookstores have dropped his music. Anti-gay christians are very quick to reject christians who reveal they are gay.
    Dean said “So, contrary to what you have to say about me, I truly do respect those who don’t believe as I do. All I ask is for the same in return. But, if that isn’t the case, it would reflect poorly on my part to return the slung mud out of vengeance. As I’m sure you’re quite aware, vengeance belongs to The Lord.”.

    *rolls eyes* Another christian with his revenge fantasies. If you respected gay people you wouldn’t be supporting an app and organization that demonizes and seeks to oppress LGBTs. We don’t support the demonization and oppression of christians – we respect you, but you have no respect for us.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 2:43 pm

  154. Dean said “For me to be here is either a coincidence or providence.”.

    LOL, I love your delusions of grandeur. Dean, like most people here I don’t care enough about your delusions about Canada to spend any time reading your conspiracy theories and whining. Canada is a wonderful, just, and fair place, the best country in the world. You don’t like it, then move to Iran where they’ll embrace your anti-gayness wholeheartedly.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

  155. So, Priya Lynn, was what I said inconsistent? Regarding Ray Boltz, Jennifer Knapp and Chely Wright – show me the on-line petitions, chat rooms and corporate pressure to ban or limit their voice. It seems to me that a great many acted on their convictions to allow those aforementioned to do as they wish in the group of their choice. As a matter of fact, one can still find music by these artists for sale on-line, on youtube, etc… Yet, no move by the Christian community at large to censor Boltz, Knapp and Wright. Is there something wrong with allowing a person to go their way? What would you recommend those of conviction do?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 3:09 pm

  156. P.S. Canada is not the country it started out as – history, social commentary and the legal record bear this out. If I can do anything to prevent her further sliding into the abyss when I return there I will. But, the seeds I planted will be more than enough that, when they bloom and blossom, will choke out the thorns and thistles that dot her landscape.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 6, 2011 @ 3:12 pm

  157. They DID censor them Dean from Canada in Romania…they stopped playing their music, buying their music, and in the case of a couple families I know, throwing away his CD’s, and their careers and ability to make a living with their Christian music? Ended for all practical purposes. Oh, they were censored.

    Harshly.
    Petitions were not needed.
    Says a lot about the mentality of the people who were their market.

    Such love, and acceptance of them and their voices of Praise for God. Truly, hearwarming.

    You are right about Canada. In quebec, Ctholacism is no longer forced on people, and the church, which was so obtrusive that it was rejected en mass the moment people got the chance, is a shadow of its old self.
    Canadians live longer than they used to, and have better health than in times past (two years longer than Americans on average)
    Canadians is one of the worlds most stable democracies, and has held together as a multi lingual society, no mean feat.
    Canada has one of the worlds highest standards of living, and its dollar has never been stronger. Canadians used to go to America for work. Not now.
    Canadian infant mortality, child abuse, and crime rates are, while not non-existant, so low they are the envy of most of the planet.
    Canada has been a leader in the way it treats its GLBT citizens, and gay friends I have who have suffered abuse and physical attack in Africa and the Arab world tell me that they dream of someday living, not in the US, but in Canada, where they could marry, have a family…be happy…and EVERY Canadian I know takes pride in this reputation for tolerance and grace. Well…except, now, you.
    Canada has had, as the effective Head of State in the Queens absence, currently a Black woman of Haitian descent, and before her, a Woman of Chinese ancestry who have represented the Queen as head of state, and both were admired and respected by a population that is overwhelmingly white (though less and less so) long before we elected a black president.

    You are right….it really is not the Canada you used to know.

    The “seeds you have planted will be more than enough that, when they bloom and blossom, will choke out the thorns and thistles that dot her landscape.”

    Wow.

    Narcissism. Nar si-siz um. Excessive love or admiration of oneself, ones opinions or ones influence. Often, this condition is coupled with delusions of grandure and an inflated sense of ones self importance.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 3:39 pm

  158. Not narcissism. Megalomania.

    A pre-requisite for religious campaigners.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — April 6, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  159. ahhhh…accurate observation Ben. Disturbing, but, accurate. I stand corrected.

    At least we can rest knowing this; opinions like his make most conservatives blush in the deep south. His time has passed. I do feel a certain sympathy for him though. Seeing ones entire world view swept away (as has happened in Canada, and is even happening here) has to be difficult. And such delusions and behavior do not denote good mental health, and that is not a thing to be mocked, as illness of any nation is not a humorous thing.

    Sad. Dean, with no malice I say this to you. When you are next home, find a professional to talk to. They may be of real benefit to you. Good luck. I wish you well.

    Comment by Gene — April 6, 2011 @ 5:21 pm

  160. It seems as though the term, megalomania, is equivalent to the term, narcissistic personality disorder, with the latter being the more currently used term. But there may be some differences.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania

    Comment by Richard Rush — April 6, 2011 @ 5:38 pm

  161. Dean said “Is there something wrong with allowing a person to go their way?”.

    Of course not. The trouble is that people don’t seek to suppress their sexuality for themselves, they seek to oppress it because they’ve been taught from birth that gayness makes them icky, evil, unacceptable and will result in them being eternally tortured. That must end before people can truly be free to “go their own way” and organizations like Exodus and people like you are doing everything they can to coerce gay people into rejecting their sexuality.

    Dean said “What would you recommend those of conviction do?”.

    Look at the evidence first, decide on what’s true afterwards – the opposite of what religious people do. Don’t assume there is a god just because you’ve been taught from the time you were too young to think critically that there is.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

  162. Dean said “So, Priya Lynn, was what I said inconsistent?”.

    Yes. You claimed not opposing a pro-gay app was the same as not opposing an anti-gay app. What would be the same is not opposing an anti-christian app that coerced people into rejecting their religion because they are inherently evil, tools of satan and should be denied equal rights under the law. I don’t believe for one second you’d stand by and let people demonize and oppress christians they way you support the demonization and oppression of LGBTs.

    And Canada is damned glad you are not a part of our country. Canada is a shining beacon of light, justice and fairness to the world. You will never succeed in casting your dark shadow over us, this country will never go backwards.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 6, 2011 @ 7:39 pm

  163. Gene:

    As to your quote ‘In quebec, Ctholacism is no longer forced on people, and the church, which was so obtrusive that it was rejected en mass the moment people got the chance, is a shadow of its old self.’

    I don’t know what part of Canada you’re familiar with but I’m sure that you’ve kept up on developments in Quebec where a great many children found themselves victims of sexual abuse at the hands of the priesthood and clergy. The more decades have gone on, the more accounts have emerged making the Roman Catholic hierarchy and numerous Christian denominations appear more rotten than your average month old appple. If this isn’t enough to cast doubt in anybody about trust in hierarchies and even any faith in God, I don’t know what would be

    Canadians live longer than they used to, and have better health than in times past (two years longer than Americans on average)

    Thanks to socialized medicine and the prescription drug monopoly over the medical profession, of course people will live longer as the symptoms of their diseases can be better treated and the individual can contribute to society longer. So now, instead of working for 40 or so years and retiring, the elderly can now go to work at Wal-Mart’s welcoming committee, Tim Horton’s counter, and various other low-paying jobs so that they can make ends meet. Why? Because government has slashed retirement pay, cut disability and reduced welfare rolls to the extent that we now have a new term to describe them – the ‘working poor’. If this isn’t enough to get people up in the morning and have a purpose in life, what would?
    As for having better health, perhaps educating on personal hygeine, proper cooking techniques and eliminating of such things as smoking, excess drinking and proper diet have something to do with this. This is just a crazy thought.

    Canadians is one of the worlds most stable democracies, and has held together as a multi lingual society, no mean feat.

    Just out of curiosity, what languages constitute multilinguism? I’ll save you the trouble of hunting out the answer: french and english. These are the same two languages that have been in the country since before confederation, and reflect the chief cornerstone cultures of Canada. Without either, we’d not have proper english taught at one time and common law as the standard of law (except in Quebec), nor would we have a vibrant french culture even in english Canada. This of course in no way denigrates the contributions of anybody else.
    Perhaps you’re hinting at Canada’s ‘multiculturalism’. Well, Canada has always been multicultural, even before confederation. With all the different tribes of First Nations, the Innu and the Inuit who were there first, wouldn’t that qualify as ‘multicultural’? If so, why wasn’t the office of multiculturalism not created until the mid-70’s?
    Here’s a little tidbit of information you might want to chew on. According to Statistics Canada, demographics where minorities are concerned (immigrant, colour, religion, sex, and even now gender) have not changed too terribly much since the creation of the office of multiculturalism. As a matter of fact, many who are descendant from a lineage not caucasian don’t consider themselves minorities – they classify themselves as Canadian. And, rightfully so.

    Canada has one of the worlds highest standards of living…its dollar has never been stronger. Canadians used to go to America for work. Not now.

    This can’t be disputed. Even I know this. But, who is it that is measuring the living standard? Odds are, it’s UNESCO, who would have us believe that they’re doing so much for the world’s third- and developing world when what they are doing is what Obama has promoted in doing to ‘share the wealth’. This means that the developed world has to get poorer to get in line with the developing world. This means our standard of living has gone the same way as the buying value of the dollar – downwards.
    By the way, when you grade on a sliding curve, what does this say about those being discussed? The only way to show prosperity in a country is by it’s manufacturing base, and those manufacturing jobs that haven’t left Canada are being kept alive by financial assistance – can you stay ‘stimulus’ and ‘austerity’? Just ask the ethanol and automotive plants. Times are so good one of the ‘big three’ is closing up shop in Windsor, Oshawa has been devastated by the same, and nowhere in Canada is a manufacturing job secure as the same products can be made a lot cheaper overseas. Worse, in many instances, cutbacks have been adopted in both wages and benefits (if there are any) by even unionized employees as the last-ditch effort to save factories. We can thank free trade for this, or do you consider free trade a sacred cow?
    When non-core inflation is running a minumum 2% per month, and the dollar has been devalued to the point that it purchases only 1 cent’s worth of goods compared to World War I, what does this say about it’s purchasing power? And, the American one isnt any better.
    And, yes, you’re right, Canadians used to go to America for work. That’s because all the jobs that Canadians used to move to that were transferred to the states were later moved to Mexico, Singapore, China, Taiwan, India, Pakistan etc…So, there’s no reason for them to move from one depressed economy to another. Just look at how many dollar stores there are in North America (not a few here, too) and see how much of it is made or assembled anywhere in North America.

    Canadian infant mortality, child abuse, and crime rates are, while not non-existant, so low they are the envy of most of the planet.

    Of course, the fewer children born, the fewer incidents of childhood mortality to count. This, of course, we can thank abortion, abortifacients and, sterilization for. After all, if they’re never born, they don’t count as deaths of infants – particularly where abortion is concerned. But, in spite of the legality of abortion, somehow it’s still a crime in Canada to kill an unborn child when a mother is assaulted – go figure.
    As for child abuse and crime rates, perhaps it’s more to do with education on certain subjects such as proper parenting, criminal code penalties against child abuse and shelters available to the abused. But, look more closely at crime rates. While non-violent crimes are on their way down, violent crimes are increasing. So, perhaps while one won’t have one’s windows smashed in on one’s car or one’s home defaced by spray paint or eggs, one has to be more vigilant about being assaulted, robbed, raped or murdered.

    Canada has been a leader in the way it treats its GLBT citizens…EVERY Canadian I know takes pride in this reputation for tolerance and grace…To this I have to add Priya Lynn’s comments, Canada is a shining beacon of light, justice and fairness to the world. and I believe she referred to what she called ‘OUR RIGHTS’.

    Yes, Canada has been a leader in accomodating GLBT’s, it’s absolutely true. Murray Corren and Peter Corren, a homosexual couple, filed a complaint against the British Columbia Ministry of Education in 1999 claiming that its curriculum did not adequately “address issues of sexual orientation.” In July 2005, their complaint reached the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal. Murray Corren is an elementary school teacher and, along with his “husband,” is demanded that schools promote homosexuality as a safe and normal lifestyle. The two also insisted that homosexual material be mandatory, with no option for parents to pull their children from any portion of the curriculum. With the former they were successful as now, at least in British Columbia, the school children can now read within their texbooks the contributions made by all gay individuals.
    Nowhere else in North America can a person claim emotional discomfort or offense against one’s sensibilities as the basis for financial penalties and even criminal code offenses. Look up the Supreme Court of Canada and Human Rights Tribunal ‘hate crimes’ cases and you will see that, at least against staunch Christians, the charges, harrassment, security certificates and imprisonment were all because somebody didn’t like what they heard or saw.
    Just ask Bill Whatcott what this is like. All he did was distribute flyers with his evidence on the risks of the homosexual lifestyle, and testimony of his life as a homosexual, as well as photographs of very graphic behaviour that none would condone. During his attempts to do so he experienced what he defines as ‘homofascism’. To this, he was fined $17, 500.00 by the human rights tribunals for nothing more than ‘offending’. Yet, somehow he won over these ‘verdicts’ on appeal to the courts of both Alberta and Saskatchewan and at all levels. Right now he’s taken his case to Ottawa so that the federal level can re-examine the lower courts and tribunals as he continues his campaign. It’s cost him dearly in time, finances and much maligning if only on blogs, but it seems there are those who will give him a fair shake.
    Another example of a person’s rights being trampled on was one Scott Brockie, a Christian who used to own a print shoppe in Ontario. It was well known for he made it known that, while he had no problem printing material for homosexuals, he couldn’t do the same for groups who advanced homosexuality. Besides, there were not a few print shoppes in his area who could do the same jobs for gay advocacy groups. One day a homosexual man came in requesting for an order for a pro-homosexual group, which Brockie naturally declined. Immediately following this, Brockie was brought up on hate crime charges by the local hate crimes tribunal and, due to the expense of paying for a lawyer as well as having to take time to appear at the tribunals, and to pay court costs for his persecutors, he had to shut his business down.
    I must say, Canada truly leads the world in catering to GLBT’s. Are these examples of ‘OUR RIGHTS’ to which Priya Lynn referred? If so, I’d hate to imagine what she considers the rights of conscientous Christians, or anybody for that matter, who wish not to bow to the wishes of organizations on moral grounds.
    Yet another instance is of Rev Stephen Boisson who was fined $7,000 gagged from speaking out on homosexuality for life, for saying the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin and homosexual activism is detrimental to children by
    Alberta Human Rights commission. However, this very same body within a short time denied a valid human rights claim against the band Deicide who performs a song called ‘Kill The Christians’, which is as follows:

    Kill The Christian
    You are the one we despise
    Day in day out your words compromise lies
    I will love watching you die
    Soon it will be and by your own demise
    Buried in hypocrisy
    Lacerate your faith in God
    Morally diseased
    On the cross of Calvary your body bashed defeated stabbed
    Blessing as you hate
    Loyal to your enemies
    Monetary faith
    As him you will pay for the lies of your prophecy
    Satan wants you dead
    Kill the Christian, kill the Christian
    Kill the Christian, kill the Christian
    Kill the Christian, kill the Christian, kill the Christian
    Armies of darkness unite
    Destroy their temples and churches with fire
    Where in this world will you hide
    Sentenced to death, the anointment of Christ
    In due time your path leads to me
    Put you out of your misery
    The death of prediction
    Kill the Christian
    Kill the Christian, dead!

    If anybody here considers themselves Christian and saved by the grace of Christ’s shed blood on the cross of Calvary, then you ought to be offended and shocked at this. For, it embodies explicitly the very definition of a ‘hate crime’ in that it advocates the genocide of an identifiable group. But, if this is one of ‘OUR RIGHTS’ you may as well allow the other side to do the same, and then the one laughing will be the one who loves death but hates God.

    It could be I’m just plain mistaken, and perhaps the rights alluded to were similar to photos distributed by Bill Whatcott and video footage shown by such people as the pastors Butch Paugh and Ted Pike where, at gay pride parades and events, gays and lesbians did acts and gestures and showed off paraphernelia that, were a straight person to do, would land them in jail for public indecency, public lewdness, corruption of public morals, public obscenity, etc…
    If these are the rights demanded, then of course the more devoted and militant of Christians will step forward and inform the general public of them. And, why not? If a paedophile organization were to campaign for their rights nobody would approve at all. Nor would those advocating repealing age of consent laws. Nor would polygamy be tolerated as the basis for an advocacy group. All the same when people see images of grown people with pretty much nothing on, showing off their unmentionables to all ages, and behaving in the street as if they were in the bedroom.
    So, it’s not a wonder when, in cities like Windsor, Toronto, London, Saskatchewan, Victoria, Montreal, etc…the attendees for ‘pride’ parades and events are shrinking down to the level that even the t.v. cameras can’t hide the sparseness of the spectators. A great many instances of these I’ve recorded from television news in Canada virtually from coast to coast, so there’s no question as to whether or not this is true.

    Canada has had, as the effective Head of State in the Queens absence, currently a Black woman of Haitian descent, and before her, a Woman of Chinese ancestry who have represented the Queen as head of state, and both were admired and respected by a population that is overwhelmingly white (though less and less so) long before we elected a black president.

    I don’t see the connection here between your expressed ideas and prating on minorties holding the top corrupt job in Canada.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 7, 2011 @ 12:38 pm

  164. Dean, you should keep your rants concise. I for one am not wading through that tome.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 7, 2011 @ 12:43 pm

  165. Dean, you are a simpleton, and a conspiracy theorist who no one is every going to listen to you in your own country, or this one for that matter. Not in any serious numbers.

    And, you sound EXACTLY like my (thankfully now dead..he was, as his kids said, an evil person) Great uncle of mine who bitched about all the “accomodating” (as if justice and equality were accomodation) we in the south now “had forced down our throats” of blacks and women.

    And, I am not surprised that you do not see the wonderous example Canada has given the world by having minority women represent your female head of state, or how that relates to my point that Canada is not the old white boys club it was 50 years ago (like all western nations at that time I should add)

    You have lost.
    Your views have lost.
    Your a raving look and consriracy theorist who things people in power are listening.
    And the anti gay, bigoted app you supported, is gone.
    And the people you think are listening, wonder about your mental health…we are not considering you as a source of knowledge or wisdom.

    megolomania indeed.

    Comment by Gene — April 7, 2011 @ 1:44 pm

  166. Dean, didn’t you say you were going to go away?

    Comment by Becky — April 7, 2011 @ 9:46 pm

  167. Becky: With the lively debate that has been going on here and matters being brought to the fore for all to consider and weigh, would you? I hope you become among those reading from this place who start to realize that the issues aren’t confined to ‘gay versus straight’, ‘black versus white’, ‘nation versusw nation’, but about who is against everybody. These little tiffs about a product bear this out as, instead of seeing the greater and long-term ramifications of an activity, we’re verbally sparring within a false paradigm of whether or not it should be kept off the shelf or put back on. All I have offered and written in here about ought to be enough evidence that there’s something more going on in the world than just surface detail. The better informed we all are, the better off we’ll be should another event occurr and ‘REX 84′ or draconian ‘Orders in Council’ be enforced because, by that point, we’ll all be frogs in the pot.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:10 am

  168. http://roadkillradio.com/wp-content/mp3/2011/roadkill_93a.mp3

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:42 am

  169. Gene, I forgot to address something from earlier:

    You stated, regarding Ray Boltz, Jennifer Knapp and Chely Wright, “They DID censor them Dean from Canada in Romania…they stopped playing their music, buying their music, and in the case of a couple families I know, throwing away his CD’s, “.
    If what you say is true, then a censorship board or bureaucracy had to be making the decisions for the citizens of Romania as was the case at one time in the u.s. and Canada. Let me know the name of the governmental body that did this, here. Otherwise, it sounds like nothing more than an entire group choosing who they’d rather listen to. And, I guess this is the crux of this very miniscule debate isn’t it? Choice, what an incredible concept.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 3:45 am

  170. choice…based on bigotry, itself based on lies and misconceptions spread by fundmantalists…what a concept, and how telling of the moral inferiority and bigotry of the group in quesiton.

    Once again, a reminder for you
    You have lost.
    You have influenced no one (not in the manner you hoped to) here
    People in Canada, from your MP to the press, will continue to ignore you….and….you need help, so, I wont be more sharp with my words than that.

    Comment by Gene — April 8, 2011 @ 6:56 am

  171. (pardon…fundamentalists)

    Comment by Gene — April 8, 2011 @ 6:56 am

  172. “Lively debate”, really? You make idiotic comments, Gene points out that you’re an idiot. Lively debate?

    Comment by Becky — April 8, 2011 @ 11:35 am

  173. Dean said “it sounds like nothing more than an entire group choosing who they’d rather listen to.”.

    Right, which they chose to do because of their gayness, not because they didn’t like the music. Once again, anti-gay christians aren’t accepting of gayness like you try to pretend, they seek to oppress it at every step along the way which is exactly what the Exodus app was about and why it was inappropriate for Apple to sell it.

    You don’t see LGBTs demonizing christians, oppressing them and seeking to deny them equal rights and if you did you would be the last one to stand by and say “That’s okay”.

    If the KKK came up with an app that demonized black people, painted them as inferior and advocated denying them civil rights, would you say that’s okay because Apple sells pro-black apps?

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 8, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  174. Priya Lynn;
    One thing I can’t tolerate is others who speak out of their own xenophopia and ignorance. However, I truly do appreciate and value good, solid, common sense views based on hard work, research and analysis. Those whom I value place exposing lies and upholding the truth as the highest ideal in their causes. These range from the socialist/environmentalist/homosexual Bjorn Lomborg (I believe I’m spelling his name right) who has exposed the global warming hoax, to the now deceased William Cooper who warned about more regarding those pushing the one-world agenda.
    Getting to your question, I approve and applaud the ‘right to free speech’ for it protects everybody from the idiot to the genius to speak their mind or lack thereof. So, yes, I approve as much an app for bigoted, know-nothing groups as I do for the most knowdgeable and well-informed. Everybody needs a village idiot to see how stupid they are, and a genius to let them know they aren’t as smart as they think. But, at least in the case of the genius, he can be most useful for his mind, whereas the idiot is only good for one thing – laughter and amusement.
    The KKK ought to be allowed to continue as they’re a necessary evil no less than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Phil Donahue or Oprah Winfrey. Few are their audience members, so let them go and do their thing.
    Your stated “You don’t see LGBTs demonizing christians, oppressing them and seeking to deny them equal rights “. Isn’t this exactly what has been going on in debates over ‘gay rights’? Labels such as ‘bigoted’, ‘intolerant’, ‘narrow-minded’, ‘haters’ are tossed about with abandon against Christians not just in cyberspace but in media outlets. Don’t these, when said as often and as long as they have been for more than 2 decades, have the same effect as the demonization you decry?
    As for when brave ones speak out against what we all know the Holy Bible says about sin, they’re arrested, fined and forced to exhaust their finances and established businesses just to fight charges in unlawful hate-crimes tribunals. Doesn’t this fit the oppression you seem to dislike?
    As I’ve mentioned already, the death-metal band Deicide wrote and performed a song called ‘Kill The Christians’ which, according to the very definition of a ‘hate crime’, called for the destruction of an identifiable group. Yet, the human rights tribunal in Alberta (I believe) stated that they had their right to artistic freedom. But, they couldn’t afford Bill Whatcott the same when he used most of the song in a flyer of his but replaced the word ‘Christian’ with ‘homosexual’. And, the HRDC used his lifting of the lyrics as the basis of on of their judgements against him. Does this not fit the notion of freedoms denied?
    Do an internet search on a fellow by the name of Ezra Levant. His blog and youtube are full of interviews of him as well as conferences he appeared at with alleged human rights watchdogs and you’ll witness for yourself the hypocrisy. By the way, unless I’m mistaken, the head of the human rights commission has been a homosexual for over a decade. If so, I guess a homosexual is denying equal rights.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 1:03 pm

  175. Dean, I’m not going to read your long-winded rants. Your focus on world-wide conspiracies is typical of those with mental health issues and I’ll not contribute further to reinforcing your faulty beliefs.

    It’s a good idea to seek help from a psychiatrist or psychologist when you need it and when most everyone thinks your beliefs are very far fetched that’s a pretty good indicator that you need some assistance.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 8, 2011 @ 1:32 pm

  176. “global warming hoax”….

    thats all I got, and all it gave was a chuckle of dark humor.

    Dean…I don’t like you.I wont insult you by pretending I do when I don’t. But, you are a person, no doubt loved by someone (I hope) and everyone deserves to be healthy. Take Priya Lynns advice, and speak to a scychiatrist or psychologist…if you think I am being snide, or crude, I am not. There is no shame in having emotional illness or issues. Just make an appointment, and tell them what you have said in here, your role in exposing the truth, and how no one is yet listening to you.
    Good luck to you Dean. And truly, I mean that.

    Comment by Gene — April 8, 2011 @ 1:39 pm

  177. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tVBeDoJc3Y

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:09 pm

  178. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlhAY_T5QAY&feature=related

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:11 pm

  179. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmU_UyqOHac

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:25 pm

  180. Ezra Levant puts it so well.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:32 pm

  181. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrNtaANIr-g&feature=related

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 2:36 pm

  182. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 8, 2011 @ 2:41 pm

  183. ROTFL! what somebody else said in another of miss Black’s videos is true – a female Justin Bieber! Worse, people will shell out hard-earned money to either buy it, as with Bieber, or they’ll shell it out to shut their kids up! LOL!

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 3:40 pm

  184. P.S. she must have really overworked auto-tune.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 3:41 pm

  185. Dean, now that you’ve resorted to posting youtube links maybe it’s time for you to finally live up to your promise to go away.

    Comment by Becky — April 8, 2011 @ 4:09 pm

  186. I think you may be right. I’ll consider it. But, do know that many have taken the stuff you and others have so quickly dismissed or refused to acknowledge and have been giving it serious thought. The strange thing about sending the truth to the four winds – and especially into hostile places – is that it’s usually those you’d least suspect who will grab onto it.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 8, 2011 @ 5:38 pm

  187. “many have taken the stuff you and others have so quickly dismissed or refused to acknowledge and have been giving it serious thought”

    Give us a list of names.

    Comment by Becky — April 8, 2011 @ 7:36 pm

  188. Dear Father in Heaven are you there? I’ve got some things to say.
    And I know after I’ve said them all, it’s my soul I’ll have to pay.
    I understand that you made me and I was made for you.
    But Lord I think it’s time that I confessed a thing or two.

    The husband that you gave to me left the other day.
    He said you were the most important thing and I was getting in the way.
    He knew that divorce was sin in your book so he decided to run and hide
    Hoping I’d tire of waiting and become an adulterous bride.

    He thought I couldn’t be alone but what he didn’t see
    Is I’ve been alone the entire time that he’s been married to me.
    So I waited for a year and a day and then I went to court.
    To tell the judge my Christian man didn’t love me like he ought.

    We got divorced and now I’m free of all that Christian stuff.
    And I’m so happy now Lord, ‘cause Christian women have it rough.
    I’m doomed to be an adulteress now so I may as well let fly
    And tell you that what I really think before it’s time to die.

    I know you gave your life my Lord, to save my sinful soul.
    I know the bible is your word and your word can make me whole.
    But Lord I tried the holy way and didn’t like it much.
    It seemed to me a lonely life and I couldn’t feel your touch.

    So if it’s all the same to you my Lord I think a sinner I will stay
    And I’ll take my chances with the Devil if my soul I have to pay.
    Because there isn’t any fire or brimstone around here
    but only my sweet lover nibbling on my ear.

    Sorry Lord I know that I should be ashamed
    But I don’t like your children much and life with them is pained
    I’d prefer to hang out with the sinners; it’s them I’d rather trust
    They forgive and love and protect without your word to tell them they must.

    I’ve made my bed my Lord and in it I’d rather lay.
    Than be married to a Christian man so he can rule my way.
    I like this life of sin; it’s full of sweetness and of light.
    And I’m not reminded day after day to fear your strength and might.

    So Lord if you’re thinking of saving me and bringing my soul home,
    I humbly request you pick someone else and leave me well alone
    Because if Heaven is anything at all, like your Churches are down here
    It’s corrupt and cruel and nasty, in fact it’s something to be feared.

    Yes you can keep your Heaven Lord, it doesn’t sound crash hot
    If the Christians I know will all be there and all my friends will not
    Yes keep your Heaven Father Lord, I’d prefer to go to Hell
    In fact I think ol’ Lucifer and I will get on rather well!

    Comment by Mel — April 8, 2011 @ 9:43 pm

  189. Ah, yes, the ‘better to reign in hell than serve in heaven’ thing. Yes, life is tough, but The Lord said ‘I will neither leave you nor forsake you’. Like the best of friends He is, He will always see us through – ‘Footprints in the Sand’ is a good poem to this extent. Life is never easy, but it’s good. If we never knew hard times, we would never know the blessings available from The Lord.
    Becky: as for the names of those in here you want, we’ll see them soon enough. Perhaps not appearing here much ever again. But, they’ll appear on places like youtube and other outlets doing like myself and exposing the flaps over non-issues like we’ve seen here. It always happens this way when thesis-antithesis-synthesis is utilized – it is, after all, the oldest way to get others to do one’s bidding. And, whether or those here realize it, it’s being done here too.
    You may find this hard to believe but there’s a Christian website called Christian Chat Forum and they’re actually worse to non-Christians than this place is to non-pro-homosexual points of view. If you’re interested in sharpening your skills against intolerant bigots, then visiting that place for a time would take care of that.
    But, you never did answer my question as to what ‘OUR RIGHTS’ – which I presume to be ‘gay rights’ – are. I’d hate to think that they would encompass grand larceny such as a Liberal party member perpetrated (a $50 K ring) and got away with after some public crocodile tears. Or, a lawyer introducing a bill into parliament where his particular group gained despite conflict of interest. Or, an MP introducing a private members’ bill that added sections of the Bible into the Criminal Code as hate speech further chilling the freedoms of speech of Christians which is, in itself, creating a hate crime by it’s very definition.
    Yet, these things Svend Robinson, the first openly homosexual MP (B.C.) did. What did he face in penalties, fines or jail? Nothing. But, he did garner a heck of a lot of sympathy in the press with not a word said in disgust or disappointment. It’s odd, though. Were it anybody else they would have been disbarred from the legal profession, sanctioned in parliament and castigated in the press.
    Please don’t tell me this is what you would consider ‘gay rights’.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 3:35 am

  190. With my query I neglected to denote Priya Lynn as the individual to whom it was places.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 3:37 am

  191. Just for edification, here is a link to a police website that discussed the $50K ring theft by MP Robinson: http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2469&start=30

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 3:56 am

  192. And, here’s what happens when a person’s usefulness is worn out:
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2005/jun/05062905

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 4:53 am

  193. Dean, it is fascinating to watch how you find lies and conspiracies almost everywhere you look, except in the one area that is most infested: religion.

    Comment by Richard Rush — April 9, 2011 @ 9:28 am

  194. Hey Rich (if you don’t mind me shortening your name);
    Actually, there are more lies told in the name of ‘religion’ than anywhere else. The good thing is that, if one takes the time, one can usually prove the liars, cheats, snake oil salesmen, charlatans and frauds with enough sources of data from which to pool. The Amazing Randi does a very good job of exposing all he can be they religious or just plain quacks. I’ve been a follower of his career most of my life and only recently thought to read his rather impressive bio. But, even though he’s an atheist, he does a great service to the Christian community by exposing the false preachers. And, I posted a link to a video of his from his website that I thought would show others his example of how he looked up to his Christian grandfather as an example for himself to follow.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 10:58 am

  195. Dean, they’re all false preachers, and they will be until they find some evidence for the stuff they claim.

    Sorry.

    Comment by Makyui — April 9, 2011 @ 4:39 pm

  196. I’ll admit most aren’t all on the up-and-up. But, the true men & women of God are worth searching out. And, no, none of them are perfect, but the best are worth the time to find.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 9, 2011 @ 4:52 pm

  197. Dean, until God shows itself I won’t take any of them as “true men & women of God”. Certainly not these who try to convince GLBT people that they are evil, diseased or broken.

    Comment by Daniel — April 9, 2011 @ 9:22 pm

  198. As Christ Jesus himself stated, we must first be drawn to Him. This means that we hear, understand and are overtaken by His message and all that it holds. It’s here that God reveals himself. If one isn’t ‘called’ as His ‘sheep’, then the message should be as important as the latest Barbie doll outfit. But, this is the belief I happen to be blessed with. And, having tried most every other major religion to some degree prior to my coming to Christ, I’m keeping what I now have ;).
    Even those who aren’t Christian should re-examine their lives from every angle. It’s only human to do so to be sure that one is doing all one can live a decent life the best way one knows how. To dismiss anything on a whim without first confirming it for validity to it is arroganct, prideful and in denial of a great extent. And, it puts one in danger of a great many pit-falls in life. Just ask my wife how much she has to correct me ;) .

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 10, 2011 @ 2:43 am

  199. And what makes you think we haven’t, Dean?

    When I say, “They need evidence to show that it’s true,” what makes you think that means we aren’t willing to confirm something for validity? That’s the exact opposite of what you think we’re doing.

    Give us evidence of your god. Until then, I don’t care what Jesus says or what people claim their god says, because their word is just as good as anyone else’s, including the Muslims, the Satanists, the Scientologists, the Pastafarians, and the I-discovered-this-new-religion-five-minutes-agoists.

    Comment by Makyui — April 10, 2011 @ 11:37 am

  200. Makyui: Whatever I’ve offered in here you won’t give a moment’s consideration to. Despite the fact that (especially in my writings) I give references for each and every point I make. All else can be easily found in the statutes and news archives. If you won’t give a hint of creedence to any of these, why should I provide evidence for any form of deity?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 10, 2011 @ 2:54 pm

  201. Dean, all your “evidence” against the reality of global warming was show later as untrue.
    All you “evidence” on gay people is shown as untrue.
    And, you show signs of severe mental illness….and need help.

    With those three strikes against you, why do you think no one is listening?

    Makyui….Pastafarians….a small group of stoned folk off the coast of Tuscany? :)

    humm…I have heard of worse religious options
    :)

    Comment by Gene — April 10, 2011 @ 6:10 pm

  202. Gene,
    Arrrgghhh!!! You don’t know of us the Pastafarians. We who have been touched by the noodley appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or FSM. For shame. :-)

    Comment by Tim W — April 10, 2011 @ 6:36 pm

  203. Dean, all your “evidence” is as unfounded as the Bible itself. Just because something’s on the internet doesn’t make it true. You need to do a little more background than that.

    Comment by Daniel — April 10, 2011 @ 9:04 pm

  204. Gene, Daniel;
    Obviously you didn’t read carefully enough what I wrote. Had you done the required searching and dug past the surface you would have indeed found exactly what I have point out. Or, are you among those who need to be taken by the hand and led to what you say doesn’t exist?
    If you need information on the gay lifestyle you demand just search out Bill Whatcott whom I’ve already referred to. He’s a former homosexual, homosexual prostitute, and convicted criminal who went on to become a nurse, and is now living a renewed life in Christ. By the way, I should note here that, during his time in an hospice for those dying of AIDS, he ministered to a great many gay men who were kicked to the curb by their partners. Is he making this stuff up?
    Obviously, you failed to do your own research into the such topics as the ‘global warming’ myth, either. But, I should be specific about what I’m talking about with regards to ‘global warming’. There’s the natural, historical and proveable cycle the earth goes through, and then there’s the claimed one that’s blamed on man-made ‘greenhouse gases’. It’s the latter that’s the myth as the e-mails from East Anglia university and Bjorn Lomborg’s statistical meteorological research (NOAA, U.N., etc…) and analysis showed that not only were the numbers off (in the case of the latter) but they were magnificently inflated (in the former). But, these are all crackpots aren’t they?
    As for the Holy Bible, if something came from somewhere by somebody at some time that can be fairly well verified as being what it claims, is it (as you would say) still ‘unfounded’? From an intellectual standpoint, there is no other religious writing that was written across two millenia, by 40 separate authors, and across 3 continents that dovetails and agrees on what they see as ‘God’ and His Will, documents history that is archaeologically verified, and has documents the very prophecies it records. ‘Unfounded’? The Bible is far more reliable a document than even Plato’s novels according to a great many historians. But, it’s all just a myth, isn’t it?
    And, yes, I agree that just because something’s on the internet doesn’t make it true. But, go to the source of that information. If they don’t have years and even decades of research to back them up, or if the information they supply is dis-information or agitprop, or if their words are absolutely unproveable or disproven, then they should be shelved. Dismissing claims, facts and reference material offhand without due research on the part of the critic is denial, intellectual dishonesty, and bigotry in itself.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 11, 2011 @ 3:08 am

  205. Dean, using the story of a gay man in denial about being gay and lived the life of a loser is about as fair and accurate as looking at Jim Jones and saying “ah, a Christian pastor, that must be the norm.”

    It is loathsome when people like you pick losers with lots of emotional and other issues and SPREAD b******t, because you believe any weird statistical outlier that backs up what you want to believe.

    Let me repeat this. YOU believe the weird statistical outliers that back up your preconceived conservative notions…you quote discredited scientists, and people on the fringe, but the OVERWHELMING MARJORITY of the Scientific community, THAT you will happily ignore! On the topics of climate change, on the topics of gay and lesbian issues…ALL of it.

    And you WONDER why your MP does not listen to you?
    And you WONDER why you are seen as a joke?
    And you WONDER why the press wont pay attention?

    Have you actually listened to yourself?

    You sound both insane, inconsistant, and paranoid

    “ah…but ‘they’ are hiding the truth, and only I am a select few see it!”

    The East Anglia b******t was shown to have in no way changed the scientific truth of Global Warming and its threat to us all. The “revelation” was shown itself to be crap. LOMBORG? you really DO belong to the equivalent of the flat earth society, dont you?

    IS THERE ANY HALF BAKED RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY THEORY, ODDBALL OUTLIER, YOU DONT BELIEVE?

    Get mental health counseling…you really need it.

    Comment by Gene — April 11, 2011 @ 10:05 am

  206. Giving Dean all this attention just re-inforces his delusions. If you really want him to get help ignore him and show him no one cares about his crazy ideas.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 11, 2011 @ 11:43 am

  207. Dean, you have a very inflated notion of your intellectual abilities.

    Comment by Daniel — April 11, 2011 @ 11:55 am

  208. On the contrary, the only thing I value highly is my being saved from a wretched life. Everything else is just facts. The problem, as I’ve seen with a great many people, is that their mental digestion can only handle being spoon-fed. This, usually as a result of conditioning akin to the ‘ten second attention span’. For a person to value themselves more than they should would mean that pride or egoism is involved. But, I won’t waste your time by stating what others have said about me as that would only be pendantic.
    ‘A gay man in denial of his being gay’ sounds like denial and bigotedness doesn’t it?
    As for your comment about Bjorn Lomborg, at least he’s accredited and is willing to stick his neck out for what he’s found in cold, dry numbers collected by those who intentionally fudged with them. ‘Scientific truth of global warming and the threat to us all’ – curious, until 30 years ago we were all scared of ‘global cooling’ and for the same gas in the atmosphere – carbon dioxide. Ever since the ‘global warming’ scare came about in the early to mid-80′s we were supposed to see the oceans rise at least 10 feet. If one scientist interviewed by Stan Monteith is correct, sea levels have actually decreased by as much as was feared that they would increase. So much for ‘global warming’ – oops! I meant ‘climate change’.
    Regarding the ‘east Anglia b******t’ – not one person has come forward to disprove all that they reveal. Even Lord Monckton is on record as stating that the whole thing was brought about to bring up the price of commodities while, simultaneously, lowering our living standard.
    As for the persistence of the notion ‘conspiracy theory’ – this is only the most recent label to cast over somebody to make them look unstable or insane. The terms used to be ‘crazy’ or ‘nuts’ and, until people started to look into these crazy or nuts claims, the labels worked – that is, until many, if not most, of the claims of ‘the fringe’ were found to be valid.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 11, 2011 @ 12:50 pm

  209. They’re a super and tolerant bunch, these Besen-followers, eh, Dean? So tolerant no intolerance will be tolerated!

    Comment by A.C. — April 11, 2011 @ 1:54 pm

  210. Yes, we are quite tolerant. If one reads this thread, it is quite clear that we have allowed dissenting opinions.

    Compare this to “ex-gay” and anti-gay websites — most of which allow no dissent.

    The existence of this thread disproves your comment.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 11, 2011 @ 2:29 pm

  211. “The bible is a far more reliable a document then even Plato’s novels according to a great many historians”. Are you gonna name any?

    Comment by emma — April 11, 2011 @ 3:33 pm

  212. Dean, and you’re wasting your “saved life” by posting wretched things on this website? Instead of just “saving” you from a wretched life God should have given you a life.

    Comment by Daniel — April 11, 2011 @ 3:52 pm

  213. @Dean

    Interesting posts.

    Newt Gingrich abandoned his first wife (kicked her to the curb in your parlance) when she had extremely serious cancer and was expected by most to die of it.

    I watched a husband at Pilgrim Camp on Brandt Lake in upstate New York – many years ago when I was a teenager – drag his wife behind his car for several dozen feet in the parking lot because she had defied him on some trivial thing. They were both “born again” “Holiness” Christians.

    Of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, 9 are among the reddest and most evangelically religious states in the US. Furthermore, in many highly religious areas, the divorce rate is higher by nearly 50% than in the least religious areas. Barna’s studies further show that about the same percentage of born again Christians divorce as non-born again Christians, but that more Evangelicals divorce than other groups (see http://www.christianbookpreviews.com/christian-book-excerpt.php?isbn=0801065410 ) for lots of details on that and other things you would prefer to deny.

    In short – people are people – your arguments, even if every one is absolutely valid – are meaningless. People adulterate, people separate, people abandon people (particularly when it disturbs their lives to remain with them) regardless of any other factors including religion. SOME people (generally a smaller number) actually follow through on commitment and devotion — again, regardless of other demographics including religion – but also regardless of sexual preference.

    Find a better truth than the thing you think is truth and are trying to peddle – even if true, it truly is totally meaningless.

    Kind thoughts,

    Reyn

    Comment by Reyn — April 11, 2011 @ 7:02 pm

  214. [...] http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/03/15518/comment-page-5/ [...]

    Pingback by Hour of the Time » News 04/11/11 – Updated 2204 Hrs. Eastern — April 11, 2011 @ 10:12 pm

  215. Wayne Besen;
    Yes, I see that opinions are allowed quite the degree of lattitude. Unfortunately, at entry 103, it looks like AC has been censored. Perhaps there are others in here besides myself who would like to know what he tried to post. Perhaps my input is seen as harmless and ‘crazy’ or ‘bigoted’, but even The Hour of The Time folks think of my analysis, works and pool of information as impressive. These are truly men who care for everybody regardless of their bent, and whom (although in Romania) I call friend & ally. Just check in to the research and programs they’ve done on ‘religious’ leaders and you’ll see that there are more wolves leading the sheep astray than there are honest & earnest shepherds.
    Further with regards to ‘dissenting opinions’, if the ‘pro-gay’ input that has been rendered there is like much of the reception to dissenting viewpoints here, I can see why it was censored. You and I both know know that foul and inflammatory language, accusation and aspersion aren’t allowed in true Christian circles. Those who allow such things even from their own aren’t among the fold but are among the fallen away from The Faith – hence my reference to Christian Chat Forum. This is a matter of prophecy, and Reyn’s entry supports this spiritual darkness and what the Bible calls ‘spiritual wickedness in high places’ – if the leadership is corrupt or is teaching wrongly, then the congregation will follow. The most devastating teaching is the ‘live like hell because we’re going to heaven’ principle which many, unknowingly, have swallowed hook, line and sinker. This is the main reason why the ‘Christian’ church looks, in many cases, worse than the world it’s in.

    Emma;
    Here are just a few names of well-respected and credentialed individuals who assert The Bible as being more reliable than most of our ancient documents:
    Clark Pinnock, McMaster University
    E.M. Blaiklock, Litt. D. Professor of Classics Auckland University College, New Zealand
    F.F. Bruce at Manchester University
    A.N. Sherwin-White, classical roman historian

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 12, 2011 @ 2:35 am

  216. There’s just one more thing I have to post, which I’ve utterly neglected to mention. The Hour of The Time I saw being referenced for a quite protracted entry whose lines aren’t difficult read between – the content of which is not important or relevant, here.
    April: It’s quite fascinating that you would refer to HOTT. Perhaps you ought to consider removing the post as they agree with me about ‘conspiracy theories’ and have been in them for a lot longer than I’ve been aware of them? If not, it gives such personages as them and myself a bit of credit for our work on exposing the globalist elite. ;)

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 12, 2011 @ 3:02 am

  217. Dean, the list of scientists who pointed out that the East Anglia crap had no bearing on the proven danger of Climate change is legion.

    But why tell you? You never listen to anything you dont already believe.

    you are a conspiracy theory tin hat type…do you honestly not realize how thats you come across?

    I am glad you are such a passionate proponant for those I disagree with. Folk like you are the reason our side is winning. Keep on “exposing the globalist elite”. And, dont forget the protective tin hat!

    Comment by Gene — April 12, 2011 @ 6:14 am

  218. Ah yes, another new euphemism for ‘crazy’ & ‘nuts’, along with ‘conspiracy theorist’ – ‘tin hat type’. According to the scientific method, anything with any shred of doubt or with serious questions must be treated as theory. Intellectually, since the debate over ‘climate change’ has been going on since the introduction of the idea with solid questions that have yet to be answered, climate change and global warming must still be treated as theory. I doubt anybody with any intellectual skill and acumen would accept the argument that there’s too much information out there that the average person cannot possibly fathom it all. This insults the intelligence of the average person, and further is shows arrogance on the part of the person making any claim. Here is a petition by 30K accredited individuals who themselves claim that there isn’t a phenomenon called ‘global warming’ or ‘climate change’. Just out of curiosity, how many signed the petition in favour of climate change – 2000, 3000, 4000?

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

    Does anybody here but me remember when the Hudson river froze solid during the longest and coldest snap in history? And yet, not too far away, Al Gore was giving a speech on the global warming emergency, and David Suzuki was on a public television broadcaster in Canada dismissing off-hand the cold wave and how it failed to fit into the ‘global warming’ model.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 12, 2011 @ 10:26 am

  219. my pardons, the link didn’t come out the first time:
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=6473

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 12, 2011 @ 10:27 am

  220. uh, tin hat man, find the the number of individuals who have signed the “the world is not flat” petition.

    the accepted and proven position does not have to troll for outliers to sign petitions in a desparate attempt to be heard. They use peer reviwed research and scientific data to do that.

    But, no doubt, its all part of the GREAT CONSPIRACY to keep people like you down, the truth untold, the people oppressed, and queers running rampant!

    Your funny.

    But you do need help.
    By the way…if we cannot trust you when you say “this is my last post”

    Over

    and over

    and over

    Why should be trust you on anything else?

    :)

    Comment by Gene — April 12, 2011 @ 10:41 am

  221. Gene;
    Re-read my previous entries.

    To all here;
    Re-read what I stated about thesis-antithesis-synthesis, plus look up the ‘hegelian dialectic’ and diaprax. This will change the way you see the world and your role in it.

    To Wayne Besen;
    I’ll send you an e-mail sometime.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 12, 2011 @ 12:21 pm

  222. Dean, I am already trained in Hegelian philospohy, with an emphasis on Kants influence thereupon, and Hegels later influence of the other German/Nordic philosophers and theologians of the late 19th and 20th centuries and the resulting changes in Protestant thoght, as well as to how the concept of the dialectic was used by Engels to develop his economic theories and their supposed application to societal development.

    Dont presume to teach me anything.

    Tin foil hat wearing pompous homophobic a*s.

    Comment by Gene — April 12, 2011 @ 12:35 pm

  223. Dean, once again you vastly overestimate the power of your intellect.

    Comment by Daniel — April 12, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  224. “longest and coldest snap in history”

    LOLOL oh man, I LOVE when people trot this out. It’s like a giant flashing neon sign that says “I don’t know the tiniest mouse-s**t about what I’m talking about.”

    It’s seriously the Crocoduck of AGW denialism. Delicious.

    Comment by Makyui — April 12, 2011 @ 10:32 pm

  225. Gene;
    Ah so, if I understand you correctly and if I may nutshell your last entry, you base your world outlook on praxis, socialism, Aryan-occultism and evolutionary thought. Not a wonder you’re so hostile to a Christian like me. I was in a similar bent to you at one time and, believe it or not, was worse to even nominal Christians than you are to those who are bold enough to stand alone against legion.
    But, I have to let you know that those in Hitler’s inner circle believed exactly the way you did,and look at the havoc they wrought. 20 million put into concentration camps or exterminated for simply being non-nazi or ‘inferior’. Am I insinuating that you are like them? Hardly. But, I do advise that you give a thought to your world-view serious revision owing to what others in the same vein have done with it.

    Daniel;
    I never made claims about my intellect, but I could direct you to the lady who evaluted me in Dec. ’09 (on a completely unrelated subject) and she – in her 30 years experience – scientifically proved me being in the top .5 percentile of intelligence of the population. I’m not quite sure what this means, can you tell me?

    Makyui;
    Perhaps ‘greatest protracted frigid period since detailed records have been kept’ would have been more acceptable to you? Just kidding ;).

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 8:53 am

  226. Remember, just because someone is highly intelligent doesn’t necessarily mean they are not insane.

    Comment by Richard Rush — April 13, 2011 @ 9:09 am

  227. Richard Rush;
    Very true, and let the insane prove themselves. But, let not empty slogan, emotive rhetoric, scurrilous verbosity and plain hostility be the means by which they are revealed.

    For the edification of those here, this is an essay that embodies socialism, elitism and Pavlovian methodologies and how they were used in the old soviet union. It’s interesting to see just how much of this old document is at work in the west.

    http://www.4shared.com/document/_GJX-jmB/BRAINWASHING.html

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 9:36 am

  228. Wow just wow. I think it’s finally time to stop feeding the troll. Although it may be amusing to some he frankly has mental health issues and this just feeds into them. I have a mother who is bi-polar who is finally treated and a brother exhibiting these signs who needs treatment. Nothing you say to him will change a thing. They truly believe there is nothing wrong with them. Let’s leave him be and hope that he eventually get the care he needs.

    Comment by Tim W. — April 13, 2011 @ 11:22 am

  229. You all are right about this troll, and not feeding him.

    He IS funny…nuts, needs help, but funny.

    I point out there is little to nothing he can teach me, and, in True Conspiracy Theory fashion, has deduced I am a believer in or follower of “praxis, socialism, Aryan-occultism and evolutionary thought”.

    I MUST go tell my mixed race parents and oh so NOT caucasian husband about my new found Aryan beliefs! ;) Where DID I put that burning cross. I should tell the president of my company about the socialism part….I mean, as an investment banker, which I AM, that could be problematic! As per the evolution beliefs…you mean, the ones that even the Catholic Church says it cannot argue with, and are not impediment to faith? The Faith that, as a Presbyterian, I have, and which thus makes me a DEFENDER of Christian faith, often even to athiests HERE? OH…MY! :) I have not had such a good laugh in a long time.

    You read all that from my simply pointing out you are a pompos a*s? AND BAT A BIG FAT “ZERO”!!!! LOL….ah, I have a session meeting tonight, and will will have a ball exlaining my newly found aryian occultism, socialism, etc to the others.

    Folks, THIS is the guy who can see through the FOG to gather the truth, and share it with us!

    Oh gosh…oh yes, we must stop feeding this troll. But, it has been fun, aint it though?

    I gotta go…the market is moving (LOL!!! I actually read his description of me as a socialist on my Blookberg!) but, Dean, three things…

    1) Your funny. Sad, but funny.
    2) Daniels reference to your self claim of intelligence was well founded…you propose to present yourself as educated…but there is a reason no one from your MP to me takes you seriously….or will. And Intelligence, without wisdom, and GOOD DATA, is not a very useful thing.
    3).was THAT your last post? LOL LOL LOL

    Excuse me folks…I gotto go burn some of my suits, buy some “che” T shirts, and learn about the ritural of my newly found Aryan occultism!

    Get care Dean….you are a human being…and no human being should be ill, and with out the medical and human support that is the right of all persons.
    Goodbye.

    Comment by Gene — April 13, 2011 @ 11:40 am

  230. lol…bloomberg…not blockberg…financial types will understand :)

    Comment by Gene — April 13, 2011 @ 11:43 am

  231. Gene;
    It should be noted, here, that communism was started by the New York investment banking cartel. Hitler’s Nazi regime was similarly funded with the two Warburg brothers sitting simultaneously on the German central bank as well as in New York. This doesn’t make sense unless you understand that, in order to further economic imbalance against the average ‘consumer’ (not citizen, this is what they call us) and ‘human resource’ (not person, again what they refer to us as) a seen enemy had to be created from a secular standpoint but embodying all that they believe. ‘The Creature From Jekyll Island’ is a fact-based fictional book that accurately portrays this.
    You people can have true authority over your own lives. All it takes is to admit that there’s more going on than ‘rights’ being denied over a computer program. Remember, Henry Kissinger once said ‘To control nations you use fuel. To control individuals you use food’. How many food scares and fuel price increases have we seen over the last 30 years, and how more often have they been occurring? If these are being manipulated (as I’m sure is quite verifiable), how probable is it that other commodities are being used to control us? The subliminal scare in the 70′s and 80′s wasn’t for no good reason as well. But, these are just coincidences, aren’t they? It would be more appropriate to say that these are but the tiniest tip of the iceberg.
    So, slag and laugh at me all you want. But, I likely won’t rub it in your face and say ‘I told you so’. As a matter of fact, many who’ve returned to me with genuine gratitude after being hostile to what I’ve shared with them. One was even a lesbian who got married to a guy who makes her happy, and was overjoyed to see me shortly before I left Canada. So, I’m glad to be appreciated. ;)

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 1:12 pm

  232. Dean….seriously….get professional help
    (ps was THAT your last post? Once again, thanks for the humor…but, now, your just getting tin foil hat creepy)

    Comment by Gene — April 13, 2011 @ 1:16 pm

  233. Gene;
    You stated, ‘I am already trained in Hegelian philospohy, with an emphasis on Kants influence thereupon, and Hegels later influence of the other German/Nordic philosophers and theologians of the late 19th and 20th centuries and the resulting changes in Protestant thoght…’ and ‘…the concept of the dialectic was used by Engels to develop his economic theories and their supposed application to societal development.’
    Yet, the following entry you state that you’re ‘a Presbyterian…which thus makes me a DEFENDER of Christian faith…’
    Either you were being truly forthright in that you’ve embraced philosophies and religions that are at odds with each other, or you don’t believe in one or the other or even both of them and uttered a ruse.
    If you truly believe in Kant, Engels and the German/Nordic Philosophers I must tell you that, according to ‘Globalism: America’s Demise’, ‘World War III’ and not a few others, these philosophers were either occultists or satanists. Hence, opposition to the God of The Bible who ‘will have no other gods before me’. This would explain why you dismissed the ‘Petition Project’ by demanding ‘the number of individuals who have signed the “the world is not flat” petition’. For, nobody can believe both in the world and/or other gods and The Lord of The Holy Bible himself and not suffer from ‘double-mindedness’ – a.k.a. orwellian double-think.
    By the way, did you sign the Apple anti Exodus International iPhone app petition? If so, this again is double-mindedness as you would endorse a petition that suits your interests, yet would denounce one you didn’t agree with. And, also if this is the case, you have jeopardized your argument – whatever it is. I’ll ask my friend Jay, he might be able to tell me.
    If you don’t believe in both/either but only stated you did, this is also an untruth and, if this were a fair and balanced debate you would have jeopardized your position to the point of losing all credibility. I, myself, can’t believe what you say anymore and, so, will just gloss over your entries with all the apathy and indifference they deserve.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 2:08 pm

  234. “Communist rationale is, of course, to be regarded as somewhat less than sane, and we are, therefore completely justified in our use of the techniques of insanity upon the non-Communist.”
    -from The Russian Texbook on Psychopolitics (a.k.a. Brainwashing).

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 2:25 pm

  235. I can actually read and understand something and not always agree with it, yet still be cognizant of the topic and issues at hand…you sad, sad nutcase.

    occultists and Sataninsts.

    Get help.

    Really.

    Oh, and Dean, you DO realize you have just conflated, in many peoples minds, anti gay bigotry and anti intellectualism and poor mental health.

    Thank God you are on the opposing side.

    Unlike you, when I say, “this is my last post”
    I mean it
    So, bye. And, enjoy your life in Romania…its a failed state full of failed people and debased culture. YOu should fit in well.

    Comment by Gene — April 13, 2011 @ 2:27 pm

  236. “Oh, and Dean, you DO realize you have just conflated, in many peoples minds, anti gay bigotry and anti intellectualism and poor mental health.”

    “Just by bringing about public conviction that the sanity of a person is in question, it is possible to discount and eradicate all of the goals and activities of that person.”
    – from the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 2:58 pm

  237. And btw: isn’t the comment you made about Romania being a ‘failed state full of failed people and debased culture’ bigotry?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 13, 2011 @ 3:04 pm

  238. Dumplings for Stew

    This easy recipe makes delicious dumplings for stew. Feel free to add about 1 tablespoon of fresh herbs to these dumplings.
    Prep Time: 5 minutes
    Cook Time: 15 minutes
    Total Time: 20 minutes

    2 cups all-purpose flour
    4 teaspoons baking powder
    1/2 teaspoon salt
    3/4 cup milk

    MIx flour, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Add milk and stir to make a soft dough. Add a little more milk or flour, if dough is too thin or stiff. Drop dough from tablespoonfuls onto simmering stew. Cover stew tightly and cook for about 15 minutes without removing cover.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 13, 2011 @ 4:35 pm

  239. Priya, that sounds delicious. I can hardly wait to try it.

    Have some really top-notch pasta salad:

    One 12oz. box of Tri-color Rotini
    One medium or large sized tomato, diced (pre-diced is okay but don’t used canned because it’s nasty)
    Half an onion (white or red) or one bundle of green onions, diced
    One small package of shredded Parmesan cheese
    One package of semi-soft salty cheese, cubed or shredded (cheddar, American, colby or colby-jack are good choices)
    One bottle of Italian dressing (Wishbone brand is good)

    Boil the pasta until tender and drain, rinse the pasta in cold water and shake dry, then mix that s**t together. Serve right out of the pot or chill in the fridge for a few hours first.

    Delicious!

    Comment by Makyui — April 13, 2011 @ 7:05 pm

  240. Oooo, I’m going to try that this weekend Makyui

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 13, 2011 @ 7:06 pm

  241. http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 14, 2011 @ 5:31 pm

  242. Don’t believe it, Dean. He’ll be back.

    Comment by A.C. — April 15, 2011 @ 2:46 am

  243. Urban Free Range Chicken

    1 young free range rooster
    4 large onions
    6 large carrots
    8 potatoes
    4 cloves garlic, chopped
    8 cups water
    1 cup virgin olive oil
    salt, pepper & paprika, to taste

    In the backyard free-range zone, spend half an hour trying to catch the youngest and fastest rooster and chop it’s head off. Make sure that he’s completely drained of all blood across the lawn, lawn furniture, cat, fence, side of the house, etc… as he runs nilly-willy aimlessly around the yard. As you turn to yell to the family inside the house to come and see the spectacle, make sure that you haven’t left the back gate open just enough to let the neighbours rotweiller inside because, once he smells blood, he’s going for it! If you have, then this adds to the fun and excitement as nothing says fun and excitement more than trying to fight a killer breed of dog for what he sees as his food.
    Once you’re sufficiently satisfied that the mangled, ripped-to-shreds mess that’s left of your once thriving chicken isn’t worth the bother, spend the next 3 or four hours cleaning off the fence, house wall, lawn furniture and spraying down the lawn as drying blood attracts flies, and flies bring diseases and maggots (yuck!). By this point you might want to have even more fun by letting off some steam so try finding the cat, who is content in licking off the rooster blood, by spraying him with the garden hose. Exciting, isn’t it?
    Once all is cleaned up, go inside the house for at least 2 beers as you suppress the urge to strangle the urban sage who gave you the advice to raise chickens in the city. After an hour in which you cool down and start to mellow, reconsider raising chickens in a confined, high risk, high regulation, high taxation area and selling the rest of the livestock.
    After coming to your senses, and with not a little inebriation for several beers on an empty stomach, yell to the family, ‘LET’S GO OUT FOR PIZZA!’

    serves 6 to 8

    ENJOY!

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 16, 2011 @ 11:00 pm

  244. And Dean’s back showing he really has no sense of humor.

    Comment by Daniel — April 17, 2011 @ 1:38 am

  245. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVQdNtuMdQ

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 19, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

  246. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGM5XMUGdVU

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 20, 2011 @ 9:02 am

  247. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=287077

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 21, 2011 @ 9:49 am

  248. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/jul/10071608

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 21, 2011 @ 10:06 am

  249. Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill in November 1987, the homosexual magazine Guide published, “The Overhauling of Straight America,”

    “Our goal is here is two fold. First, we seek to replace the mainstream’s self-righteous pride about its homophobia with shame and guilt. Second, we intend to make the antigays look so nasty that average Americans will want to dissociate themselves from such types.”

    “Jamming” refers to the public smearing of Christians, traditionalists or anyone else who opposes the “gay” agenda. “Jam homo-hatred (i.e., disagreement with homosexual behaviors) by linking it to Nazi horror,” wrote Kirk and Madsen.

    “Associate all who oppose homosexuality with images of ‘Klansmen demanding that gays be slaughtered,’ ‘hysterical backwoods preachers,’ ‘menacing punks,’ and a ‘tour of Nazi concentration camps where homosexuals were tortured and gassed.’

    “In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be portrayed as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to adopt the role of protector … The purpose of victim imagery is to make straights feel very uncomfortable,” they suggested”

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 21, 2011 @ 10:12 am

  250. P&L, the only people who’ve read Kirk and Madsen are anti-gay bigots who pretend they were some kind of pope for gays. There isn’t some big gay conspiracy headed up by Kirk and Madsen, its all in your head, virtually no gay person has read them.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 21, 2011 @ 11:47 am

  251. P&L–I’m sure you can find extremists in every group. If you can show any actual lasting effects from these writers then you might have a point.

    Comment by Daniel — April 21, 2011 @ 12:28 pm

  252. It’s still hard slogging, though, apparently, P&L, 24 years after publication, which is why Nazis like CA state senator Mark Leno want to use the force of the state to make sure everyone’s learning the “correct” history of the gays. No intolerance will be tolerated! Efforts supported, I’m sure, by Besen and his creepy sycophantic coterie of followers here.

    Comment by A.C. — April 22, 2011 @ 12:25 am

  253. Makyui:
    You illicited me for ‘evidence of your god’. First of all, my ‘god’ is ‘God’, The Almighty, the ‘I AM’. Second, I was a bit curt with you as it was a near knee-jerk reaction for me to answer you in such a way and, for it, I apologize. But, here is an article that most would find unexplainable unless there is God:

    http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.godvine.com%2FBaby-Pronounced-Dead-at-Birth-Comes-Back-to-Life-370.html&h=96a7d

    Daniel;
    I’m inclined to agree with P&D – just look at the hostility and hatred in here for those with an opposite point of view. For, they line up to the letter: re-read all the mentions of the KKK, homohobia, and disagreement being equal to intolerance. By the way, if I understand what the evaluation (that I’ve referred to here previously) said I am judged as being well-balanced and within norms for an average individual. So, does anybody else here have papers proving their sanity?

    By the way; I’m in the process of reading the link P&D posted and it’s a real eye-opener. And, as for the ‘ex-gay myth’, there’s a very famous musician who started off as gay, then got married and then, although he had an affair with a backup musician, he fathered a son with the ‘other woman’ and stated that his life changed for the better upon becoming a dad. His name – Marc Bolan. And, he left homosexuality behind long before Exodus International was ever dreamed of.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 22, 2011 @ 2:02 am

  254. Dean,
    Really that is your proof. There are a number of explanations of how this could have happened. Errors by the doctors in initially declaring the baby dead among others. As for crediting it to your god that’s presumptive. If you are going to go with a supernatural reason why your god. Why not Allah or Buddha or Vishnu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the hundreds of other gods worshipped around the world. Again this doesn’t prove anything at all.

    Comment by Tim W — April 22, 2011 @ 8:13 am

  255. Dean, religion has always thrived by rushing to claim that a god is the facilitator of all otherwise unexplainable events. While I can understand how ancient people would develop the notion of gods, I also understand how clever people quickly learned to exploit the notion of gods to amass power and control over the less clever masses.

    The fact that you showcase this nice baby-story is typical of how desperate religious people are to seize any scrap of “evidence” to prove their god’s existence. I do give you credit, though, for not trotting out a grilled cheese sandwich with a faint Jesus-image on it. The “God did it” explanation does not win by default for phenomena that cannot be otherwise explained.

    If an awesome powerful god wanted to prove his existence, he could easily do so in a way that allowed no room for doubt. He could do far better than occasionally providing little scraps of “evidence.” But I guess he wouldn’t want to do that because then he wouldn’t be able to experience the glorious satisfaction of sending multi-millions of people to hell for being non-believers.

    Comment by Richard Rush — April 22, 2011 @ 9:34 am

  256. Lots of words, no viable alternative.

    Just out of curiosity, what qualifications would you ascribe to a deity?

    As for ‘the glorious satisfaction of sending multi-millions of people to hell for being non-believers’. This is a misconception/misunderstanding that dwarfs all others I’ve seen in here. It’s clear from The Bible that God doesn’t want anybody to perish, but even He knows that few won’t. This, due to mankind rationalizing his rotten and (dare I say it) sinful behaviour against others – his includes claimed Christians. And, as contained in Scripture, this hurts Him to no end, but He’s willing to accept the choices we make. If this doesn’t qualify as a patient, long-suffering and loving God, what sort of deity would be preferred to it?

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 22, 2011 @ 10:27 am

  257. Dean, in the first place, this website is in no way representative of the entire gay community–it attracts people who have dealt with the ex-gay movement. What you’re reading is anger at the people who want to continue this abuse–and you are one of those people. It’s a righteous anger at you and others who continue the ex-gay lies. That you still don’t get that after all this time just shows how completely oblivious you are. You post here a lot but you don’t understand much.

    Comment by Daniel — April 22, 2011 @ 11:37 am

  258. Dean, “what qualifications would you ascribe to a diety”? How about that it not be based on the imaginations of ancient people as they attempt to understand the world. The god of the Hebrew people is no more rational than the Greek pantheon. And the supposedly loving God of the New Testament makes no sense at all. I don’t ascribe any qualifications to a diety because I’ve never seen anything to prove that there is one. And if there is it cares nothing about us.

    Comment by Daniel — April 22, 2011 @ 11:39 am

  259. Dean, considering the fact that you keep coming on here to tell gay people that they’re evil or wrong and should change–I take your comment “just look at the hostility and hatred in here for those with an opposite point of view” as just another confirmation of your mendacity. You come on here with hostile intentions and you’re met with a hostile reaction–what a surprise. Do you really think the GLBT people who come on this site should react to your hate filled posts with rainbows and unicorns? What you’re seeing is a reflection of your own intentions.

    Comment by Becky — April 22, 2011 @ 11:58 am

  260. Daniel;
    Believe as you wish, that is your right. But, there’s a saying: ‘There are no atheists in foxholes’.
    As you haven’t found worth in The New Testament, God’s words won’t reach you. Be thankful for the life you have and enjoy it. Don’t worry about anything else but what makes you happy. But, most importantly, don’t give a thought about death. At that point, according to the atheistic notion, you will cease to exist, so all your worries and suffering will be over.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 22, 2011 @ 12:08 pm

  261. Becky & Daniel;
    To be told one has ‘the brains of a rotten chestnut’ within a handful of honest entries shows the sarcastic and vitriolic anger which I have seen repeatedly, here. To be accused of coming here with ulterior motives illustrates paranoid suspicion further as, instead of trying to learn background information on the issue, individuals such as A.C., P&D and myself are intreated to hostility and hatred that should only be reserved for people of the worst sort.
    Does this mean I harbour ill will of any sort to those, here, who take part in this war of words? Hardly. But, I do truly understand your perspective as well as the need to attack one who isn’t your enemy. Read or watch my postings.

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 22, 2011 @ 12:20 pm

  262. Dean from Canada:

    I’ve had about enough of you today. Come back next week if you want to comment. If you slither back here today, I will delete all your past comments and block your e-mail.

    Get an attitude readjustment over the weekend and try again next week.

    Thanks for your cooperation.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 22, 2011 @ 12:24 pm

  263. Dean, you said to Daniel:
    “Believe as you wish, that is your right. But, there’s a saying: ‘There are no atheists in foxholes’.”

    That’s another well-worn scrap of “evidence” for God’s existence that people cling to. The sad thing is that they are forced to cling to scraps because there is no genuine evidence.

    And even if the foxhole quote were true, it proves nothing. The number of believers in God’s existence does nothing to prove it – it only proves the believers were successfully indoctrinated.

    Dean, it’s obvious that genuine evidence, reasoning, and facts are irrelevant trivialities in your world of magic reality.

    Comment by Richard Rush — April 22, 2011 @ 12:38 pm

  264. There is no truth to the saying “There are no atheists in foxholes”. Atheists who’ve served in various wars have been correcting that lie ever since it was first uttered. To hear about all the atheists in foxholes contact Edwin Kagin who has worked tirelessly to debunk this myth.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 22, 2011 @ 2:20 pm

  265. http://www.edwinkagin.com/documents/atheists_in_foxholes.htm

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 22, 2011 @ 2:22 pm

  266. Dean, really? You care that some stranger said you have the brains of a rotten chestnut? Really? Buck up! Stop being such a cry-baby. If you’re going to go on a website devoted to exposing the evil the ex-gay industry does and post ignorant, uninformed things trying to “church” the people on that site (many of whom have already been through the ex-gay and anti-gay religious mills) then being told your stupid is the least of your worries. If people are so mean to you why do you keep coming back? What are you? A masochist?

    Comment by Becky — April 22, 2011 @ 2:51 pm

  267. I’d have said “moron”, Becky, but “masochist” works too.

    Comment by Bill S — April 22, 2011 @ 6:31 pm

  268. “Yes, we are quite tolerant and allow dissenting opinions”

    Aaahh, until they don’t, that is, Dean. You’d have been more consistent and less ridiculous-looking if you’d just banned us at the get-go, Wayne. Like most leftist blogs do with any non-leftist commenters.

    Comment by A.C. — April 23, 2011 @ 1:44 am

  269. Dean’s gone for the weekend? I’m gonna miss him. Impressive…all the people he debated with. Rest, Dean. You’ve earned it.
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/266474

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 23, 2011 @ 7:32 am

  270. P&L–he didn’t “debate” he just typed his bizarre conspiracy theories. You two are a lot alike. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is you.

    Comment by Becky — April 23, 2011 @ 1:12 pm

  271. You know becky. Sometimes we need a guy like that Dean from canada. Even if all we do is laugh at him. He got this room going. Neat that was. Just one guy did that. If I’m him then half the people in here don’t exist. They might be somebody else too.

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 23, 2011 @ 1:54 pm

  272. No one needs a guy like Dean from Canada. He’s mentally ill and his ranting on the internet is only deepening his mental illness.

    P&L being a bigot is nothing to be proud about. You should be ashamed of who you are and use the more accurate name “Fatuous & Loud”.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 23, 2011 @ 6:41 pm

  273. A.C. said “You’d have been more consistent and less ridiculous-looking if you’d just banned us at the get-go, Wayne. Like most leftist blogs do with any non-leftist commenters.”.

    A classic case of projection. LGBT blogs universally allow opposing viewpoints and only ban after extreme and long standing abuse. Contrast that to religious right wing blogs which almost always moderate comments and never allow pro-LGBT comments to appear in the first place. The fact that you are still hear pushing your hate and idiocy is proof of the openness of LGBT blogs and its hilarious that you try to accuse this blog of not allowing dissenting opinions after you’ve been repeatedly allowed to behave like an a*****e here.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — April 23, 2011 @ 6:48 pm

  274. Yep, well said Priya. AC isn’t interested in free speech or fairness. Just a typical opportunistic right wing schmuck looking to push an agenda.

    Truth is irrelevant to these types of losers. They will lie and cheat and do or say just about anything to gain an advantage.

    Fortunately, our readers are too smart for such undesirables.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 23, 2011 @ 7:20 pm

  275. Right. You’re a fountain of tolerance. For bigots like Joe Jervis, for example. Just not for “intolerants” like me. Seriously, Priya, what color is the sky in your weirdly ignorant little world?

    Most of your readers are robots, Wayne. Sorta comes with the territory in the mind of the bigoted leftist. So rest easy!

    Comment by A.C. — April 23, 2011 @ 8:20 pm

  276. A.C.

    You are a joke and a small-minded, unaccomplished nobody who thinks he’s slick because he can parrot propaganda from the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

    The fact you used the term “leftist” tells us all we need to know about you. You are an uninspired, unoriginal loser without a single thought not first manufactured by Glenn Beck.

    And, by the way, you aren’t even on the side of the majority anymore. Just a lone voice spewing discredited, fringe ideologies.

    Thank God I’m not you!

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 23, 2011 @ 8:49 pm

  277. One more thing, AC.

    Say what you want, but at least my views are public and I’m accountable. Who are you? Some insipid loser who spends all your spare time on my blog (no time for your family?) talking trash.

    At least I use my real name. What does AC stand for? a*s Crack?

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 23, 2011 @ 8:55 pm

  278. It’s always adorable to me when right wing morons try to feign intellectual superiority.

    It always begs the question: Why is it that higher levels of education correlate so strongly with more liberal views? Is it just the normal course of things, or is it, as most pantsh*tting wingnuts believe about most things, another vast conspiracy designed to make conservatives look like idiots?

    Comment by Evan Hurst — April 23, 2011 @ 11:17 pm

  279. Proud & Loud–what’s this “we” stuff. Are you pretending to be gay?

    Comment by Becky — April 24, 2011 @ 1:56 am

  280. Becky – what’s with this single word stuff? Use the dictionary if you can’t understand ‘we’.

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 24, 2011 @ 2:15 am

  281. Oh Loud etc… you’re such a wit. I guess you are the proof that gay people aren’t always smart.

    Comment by Becky — April 24, 2011 @ 12:53 pm

  282. Oh Becky…you assume too much. You know what happens when we assume.

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 25, 2011 @ 3:47 am

  283. To A.C. & P&L (my apologies for referring to you as P&D previously);
    If your desire is to stay here, my best wishes and prayers to you. If you look me up on the information superhighway I’m sure you’ll have abundant fortune in finding me. Better yet would be if we meet in person.

    Wayne Besen;
    After seeing presentations and reading biographies on you and how you came from what was referred to as a ‘privileged’ family, it’s no real surprise to find you as I have. It’s good to know that my evaluative skills are in no way getting duller as I age. Know this, though: I’ve known not a few like yourself who have also come from the same kind of privilege and ‘respectable’ homes and they taught me a heck of a lot about power, and how it can be used, maintained and even expanded on in manners most effective. It’s actually quite easy once one learns a few basic tools…
    On second though, nevermind. Forget I said anything and put these silly lines out of your mind.

    For everybody else here:

    Nothing.

    BYEEEEEEEEEE!:D

    Comment by Dean from Canada — April 25, 2011 @ 3:57 am

  284. Dean:

    Yet another lie. I came from a middle class home, not a “privileged ” home as you falsely stated. The main privilege was that I had two loving parents.

    Like a typical right wing scumbag, you operate off misinformation, fear, smear, and innuendo. As a result, you are officially banned from this site.

    We don’t need liars who come equipped with their own facts. It will not be tolerated.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — April 25, 2011 @ 7:57 am

  285. LOLOLOL Dean. If you’re talking about my use of the word ‘privileged’ earlier, then the word doesn’t mean what you think it means. I was talking about privilege in the sense that (Christian, in that case) people are given special privileges just because they’re Christian.

    Your complaints about how you know so much of Wayne’s supposed privilege and power are hilariously ironic, all things considered.

    Comment by Makyui — April 25, 2011 @ 8:03 am

  286. P&L–your support for Dean already mad an a*s of you.

    Comment by Becky — April 25, 2011 @ 11:36 am

  287. I’ll still miss him. No matter what you say about him. Hey Makyui, was he referring to bios and presentations you did? Hey Wayne, where the rules of conduct?

    Comment by Proud & Loud — April 25, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

  288. Hey A.C. I think I found that Dean from Canada. I’m not sure. Interested?

    Comment by Proud & Loud — May 1, 2011 @ 4:08 am

  289. I just finished reading The Pink Swastika. I’m shocked. I almost joined truth wins out. After reading this book I did an about face. Especially after what I saw since coming here. You all should read it too. This old war horse isn’t joining the losing side in a war.

    Comment by Pround & Loud — May 13, 2011 @ 9:30 am

  290. I read it for a mixture of black comedy (for it is a joke) and did so after a Jewish heterosexual friend in Haifa told me to read it.

    “They are lying about how people like you were killed, and blaming you for your own persecution…..it is only a step away from blaming us for our persecution and deaths, so you should read this”

    He is a conservative, hetero Jew “Proud and Loud” and became a Gay rights activist after reading the piece of lies and misinformation called “the Pink Swastika”.

    Anyone with sense, and real knowledge of history, would do the same

    Comment by Gene — May 13, 2011 @ 10:29 am

  291. So Loud…, do you believe everything you read? I suggest you read “The Men With the Pink Triangle”–at least it’s historically accurate and not right wing propaganda.

    Comment by Daniel — May 13, 2011 @ 12:00 pm

  292. Loud and Proud:

    I’m so glad that you did not join this organization. We want to be proud of our members — as we want them to be proud of our work.

    Anyone who actually thinks the Pink Swastika is a good book is not a good fit for Truth Wins Out. Please try the Nazi Party, the Klan, or the American Family Association. I think you will share more in common with such organizations.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — May 13, 2011 @ 1:08 pm

  293. Loud and Proud–I’m having a hard time figuring out what exactly you’re proud of?

    I can tell what you’re loud about though.

    Comment by db — May 13, 2011 @ 2:36 pm

  294. http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/newage.htm

    Comment by P & L — June 10, 2011 @ 10:14 am

  295. [...] you’d think that app developers would know better than to market homophobic smart phone apps by this point… Tags: Android, Android App, [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Another Homophobic App Bites the Dust — October 4, 2011 @ 3:31 pm

  296. [...] lies with facts — every time we strike a blow for equality, whether it’s convincing Apple to nix an “ex-gay” iPhone app, holding celebrities like Tracy Morgan accountable for [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - New Website Announces Major Donation to TWO — October 19, 2011 @ 4:15 pm

  297. Letmewatchthis Movies…

    Hey.. i’m not a great deal into examining, but in some way i got to study loads of article content on your blogging site….

    Trackback by WatchThisFree — December 5, 2011 @ 5:34 am

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