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I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic
Posted July 8th, 2011 by John M. Becker

TWO Exclusive Investigative Report by John M. Becker

JohnThe date was Thursday, June 30, 2011. I turned on the television and listened half-heartedly to the commercials as I busied about doing other things. All of a sudden I heard a voice saying, “Over the past few days, NBC News has learned how Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann and her family have benefited from the very government programs she denounces.”

At the mention of Bachmann’s name I stopped what I was doing and looked up. The speaker was the Rev. Al Sharpton, who was guest hosting The Ed Show. Rev. Sharpton continued talking about the counseling clinic run by Bachmann’s husband: “As the Minnesota Independent reports, the clinic has been previously accused of engaging in reparative therapy, or treatment aimed at changing one’s sexual orientation. Dr. Marcus Bachmann denies this…”

I chuckled when Rev. Sharpton said this. He won’t be able to deny it for much longer, I thought. After all, I was watching this broadcast from a basement in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, having spent the previous eight days undercover in the Twin Cities receiving reparative therapy sessions at Marcus Bachmann’s clinic.

The organization I work for, Truth Wins Out (TWO), fights anti-LGBT religious extremism and the “ex-gay” myth. We’d been receiving questions about the Bachmann clinic and reparative therapy for months, and they only grew more intense after the June 13 GOP presidential debate in New Hampshire. Like everyone else, we were aware of the rumors and that no one had yet been able to independently verify them. TWO Executive Director Wayne Besen decided that we were going to obtain that verification: I was to go undercover to Bachmann & Associates in Lake Elmo, MN posing as someone seeking counseling for homosexuality, schedule as many appointments as I could, and document what went on during my appointments with hidden cameras.

When I called Bachmann & Associates to schedule my initial appointment, I told the receptionist who answered the phone that I was struggling with homosexuality. She referred me to Timothy Wiertzema, a counselor at the clinic, and scheduled me for a June 23 appointment.

I decided that the wisest course of action was to make my story fit as closely as possible to my own experience. Of course I’d have to embellish a bit and make a few things up, but it stood to reason that the closer the story I told was to the truth, the easier it would be for me to keep track of what I had said. After all, I was once a deeply-closeted teenage Catholic boy awakening to my own sexual orientation, terrified of what it might mean, too ashamed to tell anyone, and desperate to change it by any means necessary; although those memories are now far behind me, it was surprisingly easy to bring them back and put myself in a similar mental and emotional place. Still, I’d never done anything like this before. As the date of my departure grew nearer, my excitement and nervousness mounted. Could I pull it off? Would the cameras be well-hidden enough? Would they figure out what I was up to? What would we find? I packed my bags, made my social network profiles unsearchable, bid adieu to Michael, my husband of more than five years, and boarded a flight to Minneapolis to find out.

Preparing for my first visit was a surreal experience. I couldn’t pay by check since my checks had my name, my husband’s name, and a Vermont address. This meant I would be paying with cash and opening my wallet before each appointment, so I realized I’d have to go through my wallet and remove or hide anything that would invite suspicion. My Human Rights Campaign credit card had to go, lest anyone recognize that organization’s ubiquitous logo. I left our ACLU membership card behind as well. I also hid my out-of-state debit card and library card, and took the photo of Michael and me out of my wallet along with the copy of our marriage certificate that I always keep close. Despite the hot and humid Minnesota weather, I wore long pants to conceal a tattoo on my ankle of a pink triangle, the badge of gay prisoners in Nazi concentration camps and a symbol of the struggle for LGBT equality. At the last minute, in the parking lot, I remembered that Michael’s picture was set as the background image on my phone, so I hurriedly changed it. Finally, I took a deep breath and slipped off my wedding ring, placing it in a plastic bag inside my satchel, right next to one of the hidden cameras. My identity as a proud, openly gay, happily married LGBT rights activist was totally erased. I was ready.

The first session was introductory in nature. Wiertzema introduced himself as a licensed marriage and family therapist who enjoys working with men, adolescents, kids, and married couples. I spoke briefly about my experience and education in music, talked about my recent (fictitious) move to the Twin Cities from my home state of Wisconsin, and answered Wiertzema’s detailed questions about my personal and family medical history, significant life events, religious background, etc. When asked why I came in for counseling, I said that I had been struggling with homosexuality for a long time and tried a lot of things, up to and including suicide, to make it go away – exactly how my 16-year-old self would have responded. I said that I was upset: this struggle has lasted for so long that I started to wonder if I was doing it right and decided to seek outside help. All of my sexual experiences, from age 14 onward, had been with men. What I wanted, though, was to get rid of my homosexuality and eventually marry a woman. Wiertzema asked if I had a support system, anyone who I could talk to about this. My response was that I hadn’t spoken with anyone. We only had time to briefly touch on my first sexual experience before the session ended.

I felt strangely relieved as I walked to my car that evening. I was totally emotionally spent – inhabiting and conveying the role of a troubled, self-loathing man looking to change his sexual orientation was exhausting, and I missed Michael terribly – but at least I knew I could do it.

At the start of our second session I went straight to the point: what could I do? Would I ever be able to be completely rid of homosexuality, or merely learn to cope with and manage it? Wiertzema’s response was that it’s situational. Some people have been able to get rid of it completely over a long time period, others over a shorter time period. Still others are able to get it to “subside,” down to a “manageable” level, but it’s still there in the background. He asked me, “Are you okay with knowing that it might take awhile, and that it might not… maybe not happen at all? …Obviously, it’s not okay, in a way, but…” I said that I wanted to give it a go, that it was better to try than to not try.

Interestingly, this exchange was the only time during all of my sessions at Bachmann & Associates that Wiertzema or anyone else ever brought up the risk of this treatment failing. In later sessions he would say that he “…think[s] it’s possible to be totally free of [same-sex attraction]. For sure.” and that “It’s happened! It really has happened to people.” I was never told that every professional medical and mental health association rejects “ex-gay” therapy including the American Medical Association, American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and the American Counseling Association, or that the treatment I was seeking was totally unsupported by research. I was never informed about possible alternative treatment options such as gay-affirmative therapy. Nobody ever told me about the potential for harmful side effects like depression and suicidal thoughts. And although I was asked to sign a treatment plan outlining my problem, desired outcome, and treatment strategy, I was never given nor asked to sign any kind of informed consent document that disclosed the above information about “ex-gay” therapy. As such, I believe Bachmann & Associates to be practicing unethically, even by the standards of the American Association of Christian Counselors. This is particularly disconcerting given the fact that Marcus Bachmann’s clinic has received significant funding from the State of Minnesota and the federal government.

In the second session, Wiertzema also began what amounted to an extended fishing expedition to find a “cause” for my homosexuality, asking me if I had experienced any physical, emotional, or sexual abuse. In later sessions we would turn again and again to my first sexual experience at age 14. He also insinuated that “there’s maybe a feminine sort of tie” between my self-consciousness about my high speaking voice and my sexuality concerns and that I had somehow conditioned myself to respond sexually to male stimuli by masturbating to gay pornography. After I mentioned a (fictitious) memory of discovering a hidden stash of male pornographic images in the bedroom of a friend’s older sibling, he said that this experience “obviously… had at least a little bit of a part” in the development of my homosexuality and asked, “What if you would have saw [sic] female pornography [instead]? Maybe you would be talking to me right now about your addiction to lust.”

Despite the fact that I never once mentioned having insecurities surrounding my own masculinity, Wiertzema took it upon himself to reassure me in our fifth session that “…because you have feelings of homosexuality, [it] doesn’t mean you don’t have masculinity. I’m just gonna go ahead and say that.” I was encouraged to further develop my own sense of masculinity and my personal definition of what it meant to be a man. When I mentioned that I can objectively acknowledge a woman’s beauty without having any sexual feelings toward her whatsoever, I was told that whenever I saw an attractive woman I just needed to reinforce in my mind that she was, indeed, attractive, and that God made her this way and made me to notice her. After all, “God designed our eyes to be attracted to the woman’s body, to be attracted to everything, to be attracted to her breasts.” Further, according to Wiertzema, “We’re all heterosexuals, but we have different challenges.” Attraction to the same sex “is there, and it’s real, but at the core value, in terms of how God created us, we’re all heterosexual.”

This faulty reasoning parroted the words of Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, the co-founder of the “ex-gay” organization known as the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH): “There is no such thing as a homosexual, just heterosexuals with a homosexual problem.”

Here are a few more highlights from my therapy sessions at Bachmann & Associates:

  • I was advised to find a heterosexual “accountability buddy” as I struggled to increase my attraction to women and decrease my attraction to men. I was to confide in, pray with, and be held accountable to this person.
  • Bachmann & Associates sells a book written by Twin Cities minister and self-proclaimed “ex-lesbian” Janet Boynes. This book chronicles her supposed journey “out of the lesbian lifestyle.” Next to the stack of books was a prominently-displayed, typewritten note that read, “Janet is a friend. I recommend this book as she speaks to the heart of the matter and gives practical insights of truth to set people free. – Marcus Bachmann, PhD.”
  • I pretended to have just told my brother that I was seeking counseling to help me deal with homosexuality. My brother’s (fictitious) response was that I should just come out, because a person can be happy and gay and still go to heaven. My therapist said that my brother “didn’t choose his words wisely.”
  • I mentioned Marcus Bachmann’s by then well-publicized remarks calling gays “barbarians” who “need to be educated.” “Am I a barbarian?” I said through tears. Rather than contradict his boss’ words, Wiertzema opted to doubt the authenticity of the recording I had heard: “It sounds like… something that someone just did. It doesn’t sound accurate.”
  • Several sessions after asking for information about “ex-gay”-friendly churches, programs, and support groups, Wiertzema passed along a colleague’s referral to Outpost Ministries, a Robbinsdale, MN-based “founding member ministry” of the discredited “ex-gay” group Exodus International.
  • I mentioned the marriage equality ruling in New York and the possibility that some of my close gay friends might now get married. When I asked him for advice on whether or not I should attend any future same-sex weddings, he acknowledged that it was a tough and highly personal decision, but if he were in my situation he wouldn’t go – at least not without a heterosexual accountability buddy in tow. When I expressed concern for the well-being of my gay, soon-to-be-married friends’ eternal souls and asked if they could go to heaven, Wiertzema reassured me that indeed they could, “if they repent before the Lord and are right with God, later on.” When I sought clarification as to whether or not he meant they would need to turn away from homosexuality first, he responded in the affirmative.

Based on my experiences at Bachmann & Associates, there can no longer be any doubt that Marcus Bachmann’s state- and federally-funded clinic endorses and practices reparative therapy aimed at changing a gay person’s sexual orientation, despite the fact that such “therapy” is widely discredited by the scientific and medical communities. It’s time for Michele and Marcus Bachmann to stop denying, dodging, and stonewalling. They owe it to all Americans to provide a full and honest explanation for their embrace of these dangerous and fraudulent practices.

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407 Comments »

  1. Thanks you for what you did. Now take a shower and wipe all that off you.

    Comment by Richard — July 8, 2011 @ 7:53 pm

  2. It’s also time for the State of MN and the Federal Government to cut off funds from this agency.

    Comment by Patrick — July 8, 2011 @ 7:54 pm

  3. Excellent work. You mentioned video/audio, will that be released at some point? Also, did you “come out” to Wiertzema at some point, and if so, what was his response?

    Thanks for doing this, the information was needed.

    Comment by David Roberts — July 8, 2011 @ 8:03 pm

  4. Total props, Mr. Becker. You’ve knocked this one out of the ball park.

    Comment by Reed Boyer — July 8, 2011 @ 8:04 pm

  5. Also, it is incomprehensible that any professional counselor would expose a client, or anyone else, to Janet Boynes’ bizarre and dangerous brand of manipulation. I wonder if Wiertzema has also met Christian who was part of the Lisa Ling ex-gay show debacle. Boynes has a heavy hand on him.

    Comment by David Roberts — July 8, 2011 @ 8:12 pm

  6. Wow what an amazing piece of investigative journalism. Thank you for doing this.

    Comment by Josh — July 8, 2011 @ 8:51 pm

  7. The AMA aside, the FBI and maybe local police need to investigate this predator and torturer, Bachmann. Worse than the abuse at child day-care.

    Comment by Bamjaya — July 8, 2011 @ 8:54 pm

  8. Thank you for your courage, and for this insight into the well-intentioned but totally twisted world of religious fundamentalism. Gay or straight, you are exactly as G-d made you. Celebrate it!

    Comment by Nancy Cronk — July 8, 2011 @ 9:10 pm

  9. How does the approach and worldview of (professionally discredited and disowned) reparative therapists differ in kind from the ministers in Salem, Massachusetts who executed “witches” in the Salem Witch Trials of the late 17th Century who refused to or couldn’t reject their witchcraft?

    Comment by Sara Schnorr — July 8, 2011 @ 9:48 pm

  10. [...] gay rights group Truth Wins Out, meanwhile, just released the results of their own hidden-camera investigation into Bachmann  Associates. That report is cited in Blake’s piece, and tells a similar [...]

    Pingback by Report: Bachmann Clinic Performs Ex-Gay Therapy « The Joe Lake Blog The Joe Lake Blog — July 8, 2011 @ 9:49 pm

  11. I just want to know .. will the campaign be providing Dr. Marcus Bachmann with a “heterosexual accountability buddy” while on the campaign trail.?.

    Comment by Chapeau — July 8, 2011 @ 9:49 pm

  12. John,

    You are beyond amazing and brave. To this day, you continue to be someone I look up to. Keep up the great work!

    Comment by Mickhal F.R. — July 8, 2011 @ 10:18 pm

  13. My big concern about the Bachmann’s is their “covenant marriage” where she has acknowledged that she does nothing without his approval and that she is submissive to him in all things. It’s pretty clear who’s running for President here, and It’s NOT Michelle Bachmann.

    Comment by TomTallis — July 8, 2011 @ 10:18 pm

  14. [...] happy rights organisation Truth Wins Out, meanwhile, usually expelled a formula of their own hidden-camera investigation into Bachmann  Associates. That news is cited in Blake’s piece, and tells a identical [...]

    Pingback by Report: Bachmann Clinic Performs Ex-Gay Therapy | twitterburg.com — July 8, 2011 @ 10:26 pm

  15. I can only imagine the psychological toll this project took on you; reading this piece brought back memories of my own emotional rollercoaster as I struggled to come out to a deeply religious and conservative family. You’ve done the LGBTQAI community a huge service. Thank you.

    Comment by Katie — July 8, 2011 @ 10:32 pm

  16. [...] can read Becker’s first hand account here. Tags: Marcus Bachmann, Michele Bachmann LINK [...]

    Pingback by Box Turtle Bulletin » It’s Confirmed: Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic Practices Ex-Gay Therapy — July 8, 2011 @ 10:36 pm

  17. [...] happy rights organisation Truth Wins Out, meanwhile, usually expelled a formula of their own hidden-camera investigation into Bachmann  Associates. That news is cited in Blake’s piece, and tells a identical [...]

    Pingback by Report: Bachmann Clinic Performs Ex-Gay Therapy | allbadnews.net — July 8, 2011 @ 10:41 pm

  18. Unbelievable. John, you are such an inspiration. Such a gorgeous man. Thank you. Thank you to Truth Wins Out!

    Comment by Katy Corey — July 8, 2011 @ 10:52 pm

  19. John,

    Bloody hell….Your story is amazing. Everything you were able to learn and find out and publish here only gives strength to those who have struggled, or who are struggling with who they are. You also shed light on the falsities of “change” therapy which I know lots of people are dealing with/going through. I never really got to know you during NCYC. Thought you were cute, but I was way too shy/closeted/religious to say anything. I want you to know that you are an inspiration to me. I can’t tell you how much this article means to me, and to others who have fought and struggled so hard to just BE. To be who they are, to be how they feel, to love how they love. You really did an amazing job here, to expose these bastards for who they are, and the delusions they attempt to instill in the minds of young impressionable people. Keep doing what you’re doing, and being who you are. I wish you more than the best in the years to come, and look forward to hearing about your work in the future.

    Comment by Josh Curtice — July 8, 2011 @ 11:17 pm

  20. Epic Ownage.

    Comment by Maa — July 9, 2011 @ 12:18 am

  21. [...] I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic Jul – 08 | By: freshrant | no comments. Filed under : Blog I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic [...]

    Pingback by I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic : freshrant : Exquisitely Baked Satire — July 9, 2011 @ 12:19 am

  22. From the moment I first heard about Marcus Bachman and his clinic I suspected they were doing “reparative therapy”. Thank you for going undercover to expose these a-holes for who they really are. They are snake-oil salesmen who should not only get their government funding rescinded, they should also pay back whatever monies they have received in the past. Then they need to be sent to prison for defrauding taxpayers.

    Comment by Susan Peter-Thompson — July 9, 2011 @ 1:18 am

  23. Very well done – I don’t know how you resisted telling the so-called “therapist” what a reprehensible towrag he is.

    The word “therapy” should be in quotes in the title of this article – this process is not recognisable as any form of therapy. The guy was asking leading questions, and making suggestions and drawing conclusions that were not justified by what you said – that is NOT therapy. Therapists are meant to let you draw your own conclusions, not suggest them for you.

    Comment by Yewtree — July 9, 2011 @ 2:59 am

  24. I’m wondering if your gaydar was set off by anyone on the staff? I’ve suspected some of these kinds of operations as ways for the closeted “therapists” to have “safe” contact with openly gay people.

    Plus Marcus Bachmann could not be nellier. But then he sound so macho when he wants to “discipline the barbarians?” Ouch!

    Comment by mb — July 9, 2011 @ 3:23 am

  25. [...] undercover investigation from a staff member of the organization Truth Wins Out has revealed that the clinic run by Dr. [...]

    Pingback by BREAKING: Undercover Investigation Confirms Bachmann Clinic Provides Discredited, Damaging ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy « Feeds « Progressive News Feeds — July 9, 2011 @ 3:57 am

  26. [...] An undercover investigation from a staff member of the organization Truth Wins Out has revealed that the clinic run by Dr. Marcus Bachmann, husband of Republican presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann, is providing discredited “ex-gay” reparative therapy. Dr. Marcus Bachmann has been under intense scrutiny in recent weeks, after a ThinkProgress report documenting his past comments referring to gays as ”barbarians” and an NBC News report that revealed Bachmann and Associates had taken $137,000 in federal Medicaid funds over the past five years despite Michele Bachmann’s strident anti-government stance. JohnArticle source: http://www.progressivenewsdaily.com/?p=18342 [...]

    Pingback by Undercover Investigation Confirms Bachmann Clinic Provides Discredited, Damaging ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy « Feeds « Progressive News Feeds — July 9, 2011 @ 3:59 am

  27. The Bachmanns seems like a couple of grifters. for cripes sakes, he seems gayer than Paul Lynde. How can a tea party advocate suck up tax money for payment of patient care, especially this kind of service not covered by Medicare. Can’t these two go to jail for this?

    Comment by Tammy Joe — July 9, 2011 @ 4:03 am

  28. This clinic needs to be shut down. It’s religion masquerading as clinical practice. Marcus Bachmann, btw, got his PhD from an ONLINE university. His previous degree was from Regent University in Virginia. It’s a Christian Reconstructionist institution. Their mission is to prepare for the return of Christ. In short, they believe in the Rapture and all that nonsense. Michelle Bachmann, herself, believes that we are living in the end times. Oh and their church is part of the Wisconsin Lutheran Evangelical Synod. It is not a mainstream Lutheran church but a radical fundamentalist church. Among their tenets is that the Pope is an instrument anti-Christ. I’m sure that will go over well with Catholic voters.

    A few years ago Bill Moyers lamented that “the delusional has become mainstream” in America. Well now the delusional is running for President.

    Comment by Charles Lemos — July 9, 2011 @ 4:37 am

  29. Hopefully, your investigation is being sent to major media.

    Comment by marty — July 9, 2011 @ 5:36 am

  30. [...] I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic. Read more [...]

    Pingback by I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic; House Passes Defense Bill That Slows DADT Repeal, Reaffirms Federal Gay Marriage Ban; Rhode Island Marriage Equality Groups Vow to Press On; and more… » DailyQueerNews. — July 9, 2011 @ 5:55 am

  31. Kudos to you for putting this story out. Just when we thought ‘reparative therapy’ was receding into history, Marcus Bachmann is still working this hustle WHILE RECEIVING FEDERAL FUNDS. Add to that the Bachmanns’ connection to a radical fundamentalist church, and one can see a good argument for his clinic to be shut down and for their organization(s) to be audited by the IRS. It would be illuminating indeed to know who Michelle Bachmann’s campaign donors are.

    Comment by Theo J. — July 9, 2011 @ 6:53 am

  32. Besen & Becker, congratulations, gents! Like other long-time supporters, I remember the days when Wayne and TWO were way out there, on the fringes. Now, you’ve become so well respected that good coverage and acclaim will be yours from now until the day MB withdraws from the 2012 race. TWO, you have staked your reputation on a tremendous example of courageous investigation into Dr Bachmann’s discredited practices; may our thanks for ridding us of her come in the form of increased financial support from donors both big and small. You certainly have my commitment; if others follow suit, you’ll soon be exposing all kinds of malfeasance that maliciously continues to ruin gay lives. Our Jeff Coudriet, who was always very fond of your work, should have lived to see this day. He would have loved to celebrate your timely success and the liberation it portends, for us, our compatriots, and the next generations for whom we strive. Mr Becker, kudos for a job very well done. Wayne, excellent choice of both target and method. Best wishes for continued success, RHSR

    Comment by Robert H StottlemireRichRdson — July 9, 2011 @ 7:35 am

  33. [...] “I Received ‘Ex-?Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic,” John M. Becker, Director of Communications & Development for Truth Wins Out (TWO), [...]

    Pingback by Hidden-Camera Investigation: Bachmann Clinic Practices Ex-Gay Therapy | The New Civil Rights Movement — July 9, 2011 @ 8:01 am

  34. [...] gay rights group Truth Wins Out, meanwhile, just released the results of their own hidden-camera investigation into Bachmann  Associates. That report is cited in Blake’s piece, and tells a similar [...]

    Pingback by Report: Bachmann Clinic Performs Ex-Gay Therapy « MGN: Miami Gay News — July 9, 2011 @ 8:13 am

  35. Excellent work. These people need be exposed for the frauds they are. Can you imagine what this country would be like if Michelle and her husband Marcus were in the White House. Talk about a Religious Inquisition. I truly enjoyed reading you report.

    Comment by Sean Nelson — July 9, 2011 @ 11:09 am

  36. …in terms of how God created us, we’re all heterosexual.” I guess all the animals in the natural world who engage in homosexual behavior and same-sex pair bonding never got that memo from God. It would have been interesting to hear what the ‘therapist’ would have said if you presented him with this biological fact.

    Comment by Gary (NJ) — July 9, 2011 @ 11:13 am

  37. I’d be careful with using the term “reparative therapy” when you confront them about this. Reparative therapy refers to a specific type of “ex-gay” therapy which blames a distant or abusive father for homosexuality and that gay men need to engage in nonsexual relationships with other men to “repair” that bond. Looking over your experiences you don’t mention anything the therapist said about your father specifically, so he could weasel out of any accusation of performing reparative therapy by saying, technically truthfully, that he doesn’t engage in it and then you get bogged down in semantics.

    Comment by Boo — July 9, 2011 @ 11:18 am

  38. Thanks so much for this important work. As an out gay rabbi for whom religion, spirituality and sexuality are all intertwined, I feel that this is indeed holy work that you are doing.
    Keep up the good work!
    Peace and blessings,
    Steve

    Comment by Steve Nathan — July 9, 2011 @ 11:44 am

  39. Boo:

    The therapist initially tried to blame the father/family. It was by any measure reparative therapy.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 9, 2011 @ 11:46 am

  40. You did a great thing, and everyone who knows you must be very proud of you. Well done. Very well done.

    Comment by Justin Werner — July 9, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  41. On an abortion clinic receiving state and federal funding, Michele Bachman had the following to say: “…in effect, since 1973, I have been a landlord of an abortion clinic, and I don’t like that distinction”
    Can anyone say irony? ..Or hypocrisy?

    Comment by Isakawa — July 9, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  42. Boo, check out this posting here: http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2011/07/17551/ Wayne has outlined in great detail the reasons why the treatment I was given is reparative therapy.

    Comment by John M. Becker — July 9, 2011 @ 11:50 am

  43. [...] it’s also come to light that her husband’s clinic is dolling out ex-gay reparative therapy, a fact Dr. Marcus Bachman has repeatedly denied: In the second session, Wiertzema also began what [...]

    Pingback by How Michelle Bachman just became a footnote to the 2012 election | Sayen CroWolf — July 9, 2011 @ 12:12 pm

  44. You’re awesome! Will always believe homosexuality is not a choice. We are who we are! God loves all!

    Comment by Claudia Nys — July 9, 2011 @ 12:17 pm

  45. Well done, and thank you. You showed the true nature of this so called clinic. May no gay ever enter into it.

    Comment by Matt26 — July 9, 2011 @ 12:25 pm

  46. Great job! The fact that places like this exist disgusts me! I am heterosexual, but I know not everyone is, and I cannot for the life of me understand why so many have a problem with it. I’m glad people like you are bringing out the truth!

    Comment by Patrick — July 9, 2011 @ 12:46 pm

  47. John, thank you so much for doing this. Waiting for your documentary. Please expose the Bachmanns for the bigoted frauds that they are. Can’t believe places like this get government funding. ugh.

    Comment by Josh — July 9, 2011 @ 12:53 pm

  48. Thank you for doing this — the supposed “ex-gay” therapy frauds do enough damage to the LGBT community without having a spokesperson as an (increasingly viable) presidential candidate. That Bachmann gets federal and state funding for this charlatanry is outrageous. Thank you again for your courage and for this investigative piece.

    Comment by Ben Taylor — July 9, 2011 @ 1:18 pm

  49. [...] Becker from Truth Wins Out, a group that counters the “ex-gay” movement, has published an in-depth article about his time undercover at Mr. Bachmann’s [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out Infiltrates Marcus Bachmann’s ‘Ex-Gay’ Clinic « MGN: Miami Gay News — July 9, 2011 @ 2:17 pm

  50. [...] I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic by John Becker, at Truth Wins Out, Jul… [...]

    Pingback by John Becker, Truth Wins Out: I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic « aidsoversixty — July 9, 2011 @ 2:38 pm

  51. You did a fantastic job but I wish we could have found out what code he’s billing this type of therapy under. Might be able to get him for fraud.

    Comment by Rene — July 9, 2011 @ 2:38 pm

  52. What f***ing infuriates me is that there may be people scared of what’s going on inside them- and they need a real support group- real friends- and instead they are being tortured by these *****.

    Comment by leo charre — July 9, 2011 @ 3:25 pm

  53. I sent your story to JMG. I hope your video and story gets told to a wider audience with time and puts a big dent in the Bachmanns future plans.

    Comment by Jim — July 9, 2011 @ 3:33 pm

  54. The therapist initially tried to blame the father/family. It was by any measure reparative therapy.

    If that’s what he did then it was reparative therapy, I just didn’t see any specific mention of the father in any of these posts. It’s definitely quackery and dangerous by any reasonable measure.

    Comment by Boo — July 9, 2011 @ 3:36 pm

  55. Hugs if acceptable, and MANY thanks.

    Comment by Bob King — July 9, 2011 @ 3:53 pm

  56. Do you really carry ACLU and HRC membership cards in your wallet?

    Comment by Christopher — July 9, 2011 @ 4:21 pm

  57. Christopher, I carry my HRC card in my wallet, and (at one time) my ACLU one. Far from uncommon.

    Comment by Gene — July 9, 2011 @ 4:34 pm

  58. John,

    Was the “counselor” ex-gay himself, what was his sexual orientation?

    Comment by iDavid — July 9, 2011 @ 4:53 pm

  59. [...] This is the man behind the woman running for president.  TWO (Truth Win’s Out) recently reported that the Bachmann Clinic practices ex-gay reparative therapy. [...]

    Pingback by Gays Are Barbarians and Other Bachmann Musings… « Release Dorothy! — July 9, 2011 @ 5:31 pm

  60. John, thanks so much for doing this reporting. As a counselor in California, I’ve been working with my colleagues to increase public visibility about the harm from SOCE–sexual orientation change *efforts*. We don’t dignify what Wiertzema is alleged doing by calling it therapy. We see what they do as just futile efforts–not therapy. As you probably know, John, in England Patrick Strudwick brought a malpractice charge against a British counselor for the kind of SOCE that Wiertzema is alleged having done with you http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/05/27/christian-gay-cure-therapist-guilty-of-malpractice/ The English counselor’s name is Pilkington, and she’s been found guilty of malpractice by the British Association of Counseling and Psychotherapy. She’s said she’s appealing that decision. You can find her message here http://www.peter-ould.net/2011/06/10/more-on-lesley-pilkington/ John, please let us know if you’re thinking of filing a malpractice complaint against Wiertzema, and thanks for your work on this. We’re living in a homophobic-transphobic-trans-sexist-homosexist caste systems where more and more measures are being taken to ensure that bigotry and inequality continue against us, while some inequality falls. Truth will win out but we have to keep fighting and educating.

    Comment by Jim Walker — July 9, 2011 @ 5:34 pm

  61. John Becker’s courageous article will reduce LGBT suicides, by shrinking the number of people lured into this dangerous treatment, which was medically and scientifically discredited decades ago.

    But other people will continue to assault and murder LGBT people, so long as religious hypocrites insist upon teaching that gays are ill, are evil, and deserve death.

    There is no excuse for wasting government funds in such facilities.

    Comment by Ned Flaherty — July 9, 2011 @ 6:31 pm

  62. [...] Read John’s full account of his experience being told he was a “heterosexual dealing with a homosexual problem” here at Truth Wins Out. [...]

    Pingback by Investigation Alleges Bachmann Clinic Does "Ex-Gay" Therapy | Care2 Causes — July 9, 2011 @ 7:27 pm

  63. [...] Becker from Truth Wins Out, a group that counters the “ex-gay” movement, has published an in-depth article about his time undercover at Mr. Bachmann’s [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out Infiltrates Marcus Bachmann’s ‘Ex-Gay’ Clinic | My Blog — July 9, 2011 @ 8:30 pm

  64. I had 2 questions and a criticism of your generally excellent report:

    -How much did they charge you?

    -Did they give you an estimate of the overall cost for the course of therapy or suggest that it might be covered by insurance?

    The only criticism I had was that it comes off as a bit petty of you to quote snippets from your counselor that contain words like “sort of” and “gonna” and in one case, an improper verb tense. I think you were making your points fairly well; you didn’t need to stoop to mining for sentence fragments in order to make him sound dumb or uneducated. In fact, if you want to expand on that subject, it would be more helpful to tell us where your counselor and the others received their professional training, if any.

    Comment by David — July 9, 2011 @ 8:45 pm

  65. I’m a non-religious heterosexual Christian male, and, on behalf of all people that try and practice the true ideals of Christianity in their daily lives, I say thank you. You are a courageous man.

    The Bachmann’s make the need for a high wall between Church and State glaringly obvious.

    Unfortunately, the news you have conveyed is less then surprising. People like these have to believe the truly un-Christian crap they spout, because to admit that Gay’s (of any gender) are born the way that they are (which, of course, is obvious truth) would be to admit that God created them that way, and, in fact, God WANTS some people to be Gay.

    It destroys their entire world-view.

    Keep up the great work, and, please, stay on top of this. The Bachmann’s and their political ilk are frightening, dangerous individuals who must no longer be allowed to sprout and thrive in the dark.

    Thank You.

    Comment by Yskoty — July 9, 2011 @ 9:14 pm

  66. Why is everyone so bigoted against people who believe homosexuality is actually NOT normal? For all of humanity the VAST majority of humans have understood homosexuality to be a disorder because it’s plain to see: look at the physical make-up of all men and all women. They are made to complement one another, for the purpose of continuing the species. Just because it’s popular today to think that homosexual activity is perfectly normal does not make it so.

    The research (yes, RESEARCH) done by numerous organizations, scientists, doctors, etc. have failed to prove the existence of a “gay gene” (in fact, the man who came up with that idea has in fact said they have found nothing of the sort) and agree that there are numerous factors that contribute to persons being attracted to the same sex. Plus numerous people have actually CHANGED their orientation from gay to straight. Are you suggesting all of these people are still gay but don’t know it? Are you discrediting the stories of countless people who previously struggled with same-sex attraction but now do not??? Seems a little narrow-minded and bigoted to me. In fact, I’m highly doubting you’ll even allow this post to be posted since it certainly doesn’t agree with your viewpoint.

    Last thing – Please don’t go jumping to the conclusion that I’m saying all of this because I’m on Michelle Bachmann’s team. I’m not. I’d just like to see a little more open-mindedness and tolerance to scientific research that you so sneakily brushed under the rug.

    Comment by Greg — July 9, 2011 @ 10:22 pm

  67. David:

    We did not intentionally make him sound dumb or uneducated. We quoted him verbatim. There were many instances where he did sound, how can I accurately convey this, um, Palinesque with the English language.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 9, 2011 @ 10:27 pm

  68. Greg:

    Are you kidding me? You come on here and gay bash, call LGBT people abnormal, you lie about the “research” and then have the nerve to call people bigots for opposing such treatment? You have got to be kidding me. Here is a quick education:

    1) The biological and genetic research show that homosexuality likely has a biological basis. The way you presented your gay gene argument makes you appear ignorant and as if you have an agenda. Here is some of the latest research that your tongue-speaking church probably didn’t spoon feed you at the last social.

    http://www.truthwinsout.org/biological-research/

    2) Here is what the real experts say about sexual orientation.

    http://www.truthwinsout.org/what-the-experts-say/

    3) Homosexuality has been around since air. It is natural for millions of people, no matter how many times you deny reality and say its not.

    Go educate yourself. Then come back and apologize and help us win equal rights

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 9, 2011 @ 10:50 pm

  69. David:

    The sessions were $73.44 each.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 9, 2011 @ 10:52 pm

  70. [...] Source [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out Infiltrates Marcus Bachmann’s “Ex-Gay” Clinic « The Red Phoenix — July 9, 2011 @ 11:30 pm

  71. Greg:

    As for the way bodies are made, it only takes common sense to know there is more than one place we can feel pleasure when penetrated and that we do not even need to be penetrated to feel pleasure or achieve orgasm. That is not made up, but biological fact. Human beings are not valued for our ability to procreate. Not everyone, straight or gay, can or wishes to procreate. Those of us who feel this way still have purpose and value and fulfill our humanity. Additionally, people who believe that being gay is not “normal” are criticized because this is a human rights issue. Prejudice is not a matter of opinion. If you are racist, for instance, you will probably be criticized (or ignored) and this makes sense to most people. Also, to answer how one might seem to “change their orientation” is that 1. there is pressure to portray oneself in a certain way sometimes 2. some people are very fluid in their sexuality. There is a book called Sexual Fluidity by Lisa Diamond that I think addresses this topic. I have not read the book, but intend to after hearing about it. Lastly, just because (if it has indeed) something has been said to be a disorder doesn’t mean it is so. Nor just because a present majority or historical majority says something does not mean it is true. I agree with that last point.

    Comment by LaChelle — July 9, 2011 @ 11:42 pm

  72. Greg said “Are you suggesting all of these people are still gay but don’t know it?”.

    No, I’m saying they’re gay and lying about not being gay.

    Greg said “Are you discrediting the stories of countless people who previously struggled with same-sex attraction but now do not???”.

    There are no such people. All making such claims either admit when pressed they are still same sex attracted and those that do not refuse to undergo testing to prove they’ve changed orientation. Several studies have been done which show change in sexual orientation is either extremely rare, or more likely, never happens at all.

    Greg said “Seems a little narrow-minded and bigoted to me.”.

    No, its just the facts. Bigoted would be trying to deprive people you don’t like of equal rights, jobs, places to live, and loving relationships – that’d be you and yours. As for us we support you bigots having equal rights, jobs, places to live and loving relationships. That makes us leaps and bounds above you and yours in terms of morality.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 12:21 am

  73. Bravo Sir! It shames me that Bachmann hales from my state. She’s disgusting, as is this “therapy”.

    Comment by Red Pomegranate — July 10, 2011 @ 1:32 am

  74. This matter of therapy is very personal for me. My bi-sexual daughter attended therapy to convert her from being who she is into a woman who is attracted to only men, which she is not. She only did this after her church recommended it. This was about 3 years ago. Eventually she saw the light and left this therapy, but continued to worry about her sexual nature. Just prior to starting therapy, she was very ill and suicidal and felt rejected for who she is. As her mother, I was sick that she even thought of attending this so-called therapy. And I was very angry at church staff that would reject her and tell her she also needed to reject herself. I think she is just fine the way she is. Eventually, she concluded god made her the way she is and that was just fine. She has come back home, returned to school and is far more aware of the role of religion as a “control” wielded through fearmongering. She believes religion is best as a source of love and compassion, but knows now that the worst crimes in history have also been justified by religious zealotry, including rabid anti-gay and homophobic actions. As to the Bachmann team, I, along with many others, believe Marcus Bachmann is gay. I also believe his wife’s common sense is dwarfed by her fanatical religiosity and sharing of her husband’s self-hatred projected onto the LGBT community. For god’s sake, she has even condemned her own half-sister for being gay.(Or is that another hidden agenda Michelle’s psyche has against a preferred sibling). Also, there is something perverse and downright weird (maybe unchristian?) about having 23 foster children when you barely even have enough attention for five healthy children of your own. Massive families are likely to need drill sargeants, not parents. I know that foster children are paid for by the state. So that is a lot of state money coming to the already large Bachmann family here. Was the state paying for intolerance and hatefilled anti-gay environments for these foster children? Where are all these 23 foster children now? Statistically, I would think one might be gay. There is a large pro-government social agenda to Michelle’s national presidential campaign that vilifies the entire LGBT community of voters and their friends and families. Her pretense of wanting small government is belied by her political sermons reverencing christian fundamentalism as the true governmental social goal of these “end” times. She is the obsessive mouthpiece of the apocalypse who believes she will rapture with her kind. I think Michelle and her kind are indeed willfully leading souls into a hell of intolerance with an equally intolerant and uncompassionate under-god in charge. In other words, an under-god just like her.

    Comment by Cherie Baker — July 10, 2011 @ 1:42 am

  75. I am a ‘straight’ Christian married woman. I knew from a very young age that I liked males. If I woke up tomorrow and the whole world was gay, I would still be attracted to males. There is no therapy in existence that would make me be attracted to women. Therefore, I do not believe that a lifelong thing like sexual preference can be changed through therapy. We are all what we are. Let’s just all accept that and move on.

    Comment by Eva — July 10, 2011 @ 1:46 am

  76. Thank you for your incredibly important work!!!

    Comment by kenny — July 10, 2011 @ 1:46 am

  77. As a licensed psychologist, I can’t believe the unethical and incompetent “therapy” being done by this “clinic.” Thanks for this excellent piece and for publicizing this. I hope this clinic will be shut down and that one day we will not have any such places.

    Comment by Melissa — July 10, 2011 @ 2:07 am

  78. This is a fantasy story. Don’t you have a proofreader? What are you; an “ex-catholic schoolboy?” And “couldn’t pay by check because my HUSBAND’s name was on it.”
    If the media – meaning you- actually had any morals other than who gets the check, this kind of defamation and perjury would never get printed. I neither like nor dislike Bachmann, but I now have no desire to read any other item produced by you. Besides, if a person needs mental health care of any kind, you should respect their privacy and stay out of their business. Maybe Bachmann could recomend some help for you?

    Comment by Damien — July 10, 2011 @ 3:50 am

  79. The no informed consent document is interesting to me. I’ve worked in multiple mental health settings, and a signed informed consent document is something that absolutely must be completed with a client day one. If a file without an informed consent document is ever seen by a state auditor, that’s something they do not look kindly on. I wonder what the rules are for auditing in Minnesota.

    Comment by Boo — July 10, 2011 @ 5:38 am

  80. Thanks so much for your courageous work. I hope this gets wide media exposure.

    Now, if whoever is or was lifting Marcus Bachmann’s luggage will just come forward, we can be rid of this troublesome duo for good.

    Comment by Abel — July 10, 2011 @ 6:38 am

  81. I just hate how some people use religion to make others feel terrible. Thank you for going undercover and having to deal with all of the emotional side effects. This should truly be eye opening. Awesome job!

    Comment by Amanda — July 10, 2011 @ 6:49 am

  82. @Damien, jeeze. This is not mental health. If it isn’t in the DSM 4, soon to be DSM 5, it isn’t a mental condition. If people want “help” for anything, it is their business, but getting government funding to “fix” a mental disorder that is not on the books as being a mental disorder is wrong. Also, police do the undercover work all the time. Because this man took it upon himself to do so to see if the dumped were true or false does not mean he is incorrect in his experience. Perhaps you could open a dialogue with this man and ask him questions you want to instead of insulting his integrity first.

    Comment by Amanda — July 10, 2011 @ 6:55 am

  83. *rumor. Not dumped. Stupid phone -_-

    Comment by Amanda — July 10, 2011 @ 6:56 am

  84. Bachmann’s and their followers are nothing more than gay bashing morons and there is no sense in talking to a moron. I was in the 82nd Airborne in the 1956-60 and one of our team was gay. He was a hunting guide in Canada before the service and he went to Vietnam in 1964 and came home in a body bag. He died fighting for the rights of these ‘Jesus Freak’ morons to gay bash. I wonder what their God and Jesus thinks of them!

    Comment by William Baylor — July 10, 2011 @ 6:58 am

  85. Still waiting for Michelle Baby to send back that $251,000 in govt handouts she took from the govt for her farming operation …. I mean a 100% dedicated “Testicle Sucker” like Bachmann surely would make Mr Beck happy and return the money

    Comment by Mike Bromell — July 10, 2011 @ 7:07 am

  86. Mes felicitations pour courage!

    Comment by Tanja Marcijan — July 10, 2011 @ 7:42 am

  87. I believe this calls for an “atta boy”! You’ve done an excellent job in support of the community. I wish you continued success.

    Comment by Chuck Dougherty — July 10, 2011 @ 8:26 am

  88. John, please report your therapist to his licensing board by filing a formal complaint. This will allow this Minnesota Board of Marriage and Family Therapy to take action against him and the clinic for violating the ethical guidelines he is required to follow. Outrages citizens can also contact them: 612-617-2220.

    Comment by Another Therapist — July 10, 2011 @ 9:29 am

  89. Thank you for exposing Bachmann’s junk therapy. I agree with one of the comments, I want to take a shower, too; must have been terribly hard sitting in that office, listening to the syrup of sweetness, filled with poison. Argh …

    On another, happier note, today, July 10, the Presbyterian Church becomes the largest Reformed body in the United States to welcome, affirm, celebrate and ordain LGBTQ persons. To the glory of God! Finally.

    Comment by Tom Eggebeen — July 10, 2011 @ 9:36 am

  90. Honey, you asked, emphatically and specifically, with tears, for them to try to change your behaviour. Who can you blame?

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 11:08 am

  91. Monique, the point is this: THEY SHOULD HAVE REFUSED.

    Comment by Brian — July 10, 2011 @ 11:17 am

  92. Brian, I appreciate that, but they are literal bible followers. The counselor sounds kind of realistic saying it may never change (!) so considering what conviction he is following this is quite liberated really ;) If it were my children, I agree, they should not be bothered with anyone telling them what to feel, then again, I do not expect them to. I am sorry the US still has such a terrible time in places with hatred. And I am sorry I am probably underestimating the problem there as I am writing from Holland where there are enough places to feel whatever you feel. Wishing everyone well!

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 11:27 am

  93. Monique, honey,

    If a female model came in to see a doctor and begged through tears to help manage her anorexia so she could model, would it be ethical for the doctor to agree?

    If a body builder begged and cried for a doctor to help him shoot up with steroids is that okay?

    If an ashamed black person emphatically and specifically asked a doctor to help with skin bleaching would it be ethical forth doctor to assist?

    If a short person cried to a psychiatrist to help them pray and grow taller should the doctor take the money to help?!

    Honey, you just don’t get it. So called “ex-gay” therapy never works. It is consumer fraud that harms people in virtually all cases. Ethical doctors will not engage or partake in in such a discredited and destructive practice. To do so is to be a quack by definition.

    Do you finally understand?

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 10, 2011 @ 11:32 am

  94. Monique, the Bible never was and never will be a good basis for science. In fact it’s always been quite the opposite. A responsible therapist would not try to “cure” homosexuality and would not claim they could.

    The irony of your “wishing everyone well” sign off is pretty sad when you cleary don’t. If you would spend a little more time on this site or on other sites that deal with “ex-gay therapy” you would see the horrors this fake science causes. You should do some research before you decide that these destructive “therapies” are okay.

    Comment by Daniel — July 10, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  95. Wayne honey, not necessary to get a nasty tone. Anorexia and steroids can kill you so I would not like to compare them with homosexuality. Skin colour and stature maybe a good comparison. That would make it obvious that it is impossible and ridiculous to change. Just for a moment though, let’s assume that homosexuality is not there from birth. Just for a moment because none of us know anything for sure. And because I am curious. Do you know anyone who was not influenced in their early childhood in a way that could have made them homosexual? And I am NOT saying this is the case. It is just nice to be able to ask people on the site here since it is a sensitive minefield kind of question face to face with anyone I love. Is it impossible that your mother or father or someone influenced you by the way they touched you or treated you or something, that they reinforced certain feelings? I am wondering because I have an aunt who touches me in an unusual way, putting her hands on the sides of my lower back. Three of her 4 children are gay. You can reply to me with venom or anyway you like but I am just thinking while I type. Like I implied, if my kids tell me they feel for a same sex person I bloody well feel they should know best. I am just wondering. Thanks.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 11:51 am

  96. Daniel, you may be right, I shall think about it.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 11:53 am

  97. Monique, we’ve heard all those sorts of theories again and again and again. And everytime they’ve been investigated there’s never been any evidence to support them. In fact dozens and dozens of studies have shown evidence that gayness is biological. None of those studies taken by themselves are conclusive, but when looking at the whole body of studies all leaning towards the same conclusion it is a virtual certainty that gayness is caused by bilogical factors, not family upbringing.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 12:40 pm

  98. Monique:

    Obviously, you are new to this arena. Attempts to change sexual orientation can and do lead to suicides. So, you are factually incorrect with your statement. The American Psychiatric Association says that attempts to change sexual orientation can lead to anxiety, depression and self destructive behavior.” Pretty straightforward, huh?

    You ask the absurd question: “Do you know anyone who was not influenced in their early childhood in a way that could have made them homosexual?”

    Aside from conveniently ignoring the growing biological research on the topic, you lack any evidence whatsoever to support your hypothesis. At the core of your question is heterosexual supremacist assumptions and outright bigotry. Your opinion is clearly based on the biased and unsubstantiated view that all people are born heterosexual and something must have gone wrong for them to end up gay. The so-called “evidence” you trot out is anecdotal, subjective, and devoid of substance.

    Hmm, Monique, maybe gayness is caused by kids using the hula hoop, or maybe they were introduced to okra before the age of six, or perhaps their parents read the pink Financial Times? Maybe these are reasons for homosexuality — since you are basically pulling causation out of our ass.

    And, by the way, LGBT people come from every environment imaginable, pretty much putting the kibosh on the utterly foolish notions you are putting forth. The fact is, there is great natural variation in human sexuality. Why is it so difficult for people like you to accept this? Is your prejudice against homosexuals so deep that you can’t even entertain this idea?

    Finally, you seem to think that a coherent reply to your innuendo and utterly fantastical musings dressed up as a serious response is “venom.” It’s not — we just prefer that people think before they write at this site.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 10, 2011 @ 12:44 pm

  99. Here Honey:

    Will this help you get it?

    http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/07/video-on-mormon-ex-gay-therapy-in-the-end-youre-just-a-gay-guy-who-knows-how-to-work-on-your-car.html

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 10, 2011 @ 12:49 pm

  100. “God designed our eyes to be attracted to the woman’s body” Oh, so thats what happened, Good job, God!and thank you!

    Comment by emma — July 10, 2011 @ 12:59 pm

  101. Thanks Wayne, I like Steve’s story, I think he is brave to leave the – in my eyes ridiculous – church and follow his true feelings. Still I would like to ask him, is it possible he had someone, like my aunt, who influenced him after birth and reinforced certain feelings on an almost daily basis. And does it have to be treated as a threat me asking this?
    I do not thin that therapy to change sexual orientation is a good idea, I very much doubt anyone has done this with a resulting change. I think it would be awful esoecially if reilgious self rightiousness is brought intot it. Still, I wonder as a non-scientist, what influence homosexuals acknowledge in all openness, of people in their environment. If non, that is fine with me, if no homosexual on earth recognises that they were touched in an unusual way when they were little and no homosexual thinks that same sex feelings were reinfored in them when they were little, I would like to know! That would be great to find out! But as it is, I do not feel free to talk and ask in public with my loved ones in my family who are my favourite cousins and who are gay, this is where you come in. SO enlighten me. And remember, when you treat me as an enemy and an idiot and don’t just talk to me like a friend or someome worthy of explanations and instruction and even caring or love, that is where you test my patience becasue at elast I am trying and I am talking in this LBGT website being hinestr and enquiring rather than judgemental. So you choose, make me into a bitter enemy or treat me as a friend and keep my support.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 1:12 pm

  102. Monique, its been explained to you several times and you’ve been given information to back it up – someone touching one in an unusual way does not cause gayness. If you don’t want to accept the truth then at least stop asking the same question over and over again when its been answered.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 1:20 pm

  103. Dear Priya,

    First of all, I would like a worlwide survey, would you?

    Second, why would you prefer me to only think my questions like many others and nothing to change?

    Much respect for your right to decide on your true self as for mine,

    Don’t let a world full of haters turn you into haters of anyone who asks a question.

    Monique

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 1:29 pm

  104. How about jumping at the chance to inform an ignorant fool like me?

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 1:33 pm

  105. You’ve been informed Monique, you just don’t like the answer.

    The dozens of studies I refered to earlier have been done all over the world, there is no reason to believe people are gay in China for different reasons than they are gay in France.

    There is a monstrously large anti-gay industry around the world. If there were any scientific evidence to support a societal cause for gayness they’d be flooding television, the internet, radio, and newspapers with it. Once again, despite desperate well funded attempts to find such a cause there remains no evidence to support it and a large body of studies that show a biological cause.

    Now you’ve asked the same question several times and the facts have been explained to you several times. You’re not going to get a different answer by asking it yet again so don’t bother.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 1:50 pm

  106. There is a large pro gay industry in the Netherlands where I live, yet it still is not clear where hetero or homo sexuality originates. You are not a friendly person and you are a cause for anti gay sentiments in your unfriendliness. Just consider that gays struggle before they accept the reality of their feelings. Allow them their struggle and do not deny hetero’s their struggle. Hate is your middle name. I will lesve you to it.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 1:54 pm

  107. [...] articles were posted on Friday at the Truth Wins Out (TWO) website, one a report of an undercover investigation by John M. Becker and the other by Wayne Besen explaining why the group undertook the investigation [...]

    Pingback by Clinic Owned by Michele and Marcus Bachmann Offers “Ex-Gay Therapy « Sky Dancing — July 10, 2011 @ 1:56 pm

  108. All I did is ask a question, which is the basis of all scientific enquiry, You are obviously acting as an enemy to it, like the people who hated people who pondered the question whether the earth was indeed flat. Why ask the question if the answer seems obvious to someone else? Yes, that is why! People know nothing, therefore wuestions are always valid. You are fuill of judgement and hatred and that is not so smart. You are a little bit dumb.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 2:00 pm

  109. Monique don’t lie. I didn’t express any hate towards you, I didn’t judge you, I didn’t say anything at all about who you are as a person. I answered your repetitive question and that wasn’t good enough for you – that’s your problem, not mine.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 2:07 pm

  110. Honey Priya, you tell me not to nother asking the question again. That is telling me to shut up. If that is not nasty I do not know what friendly is.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 2:13 pm

  111. Monique,

    There are no genes that determine sexual orientation. Since you seem quizical, simply ask your self your questions about yourself. Your answers should then become quite clear.

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 2:15 pm

  112. Thank you iDaivd, I am not sure what you mean, how anything would become clear?

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 2:20 pm

  113. Monique, when someone asks the same question over and over and is answered over and over and you are finally told to stop asking what has been repeatedly answered that is not nasty, that is a perfectly reasonable response.

    Imagine if someone asked you what your favourite colour was and then when you said “Blue.” they kept asking you “Are you sure your favourite colour isn’t red instead?” or “Maybe your favourite colour is pink?”, or “I know 3 people who’s favourite colour is green, how do you know your favourite colour isn’t green?”, and on and on – wouldn’t you at some point just say “I’ve told you over and over my favourite colour is blue, stop asking me if its something else.”?

    Monique, now I will judge you. Your kind of behavior is obnoxious. For you to come here and question over and over and over an issue we are well informed on and have dealt with far too many times to count is bigoted.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 2:32 pm

  114. You have no idea about all the experiences of gay people in the world. You are taking this as a question of you. I do not know you and I certainly do not ask you to tell me what is the truth about lots of people. You are big headed to assume you know about all people in a group just because you are in the group. There is no talking to a big ego like yours. i assume you are my least favourite star sign.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 2:36 pm

  115. 1)
    Monique, whats your problem? Priya Lynn is COMPLETELY correct here. I have read back to your posts and you doing just what she said. Same question, over and over, even though it has been answered. Then, when this is pointed out to you, you seem to want to play some kind of victim or somthing.

    2)
    And, as it happens, as a gay person, she DOES have an idea about the experiences of gay people in the world.

    3)
    “least favorite star sign”.
    . . . . uh, yeah…..OK. Should have seen that coming…after reading your earlier posts I mean.

    Comment by Gene — July 10, 2011 @ 2:56 pm

  116. We all reap what we sow. I know people nicer then you. May you reap beauty and love.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 3:00 pm

  117. Monique, if you think I have no idea about the experiences of gay people in the world you are far more foolish than I could have imagined. If you think some people are gay for reasons no one has ever been able to demonstrate and in total contradiction to all the evidence then you are beyond any discussion based on reason and logic.

    You show up here parrotting a tired old line about the cause of gayness that has been used for decades to justify destroying gay people’s relationships, to deny gays equal rights, and to oppress, assault, imprison, and murder gays and you expect LGBTs to treat you like some friendly honest reasonable person?! You’ve been dealt with patiently and my patience has run out. Go away bigot.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 3:07 pm

  118. I see!! So this is a wensite for people with one conviction! Wow! This is a lovely dictatorship! No one here is allowed to ask anything that bothers you here! Wow, wow and wow. you are more stupid than i imagine. Somehow I imagined people who have gone throught the hardship of dealing with sexual orientation that is not accepted everywhere would be sensitive to other’s rights, but now I see how foolish that was of me/. You have just graduatued to as stupid as straight bigots! Congratulations Priya darling.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  119. Monique,

    My take on human sexuality and homosexuality is, that is how the deal roles, bi str8 gay. Why? Well, the more apt question is “why not”? If we as spirits came here to experience physicality, it would seem the dictum would be, “let’s do it all in every possible way we can for the beat sticker ride at the carnival”.
    That being said, sex abuse is a nasty monster, and homophobia is a demon all it’s own. It doesn’t do physical touch but it does shed brains.
    So if someone is freaking about their sexuality, a trained sexual abuse therapist is really the best option. Church quacks are just what they are, quacks w no formal.training short of “judge the shit out of every thing that moves”.
    So I know sexuality is hardwired and if you are having any strange feelings about possibly being sexually abused, do go see a pro. I was sexually abused and did a very awesome time with a great counselor to resolve it, and at no time did my sexual orientation come up as that confusion was never my issue. But it can be for some.
    I just wish these poor exgay folks going to get healed by the hand that bit them, could understand they are just reinforcing their problems.

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 3:22 pm

  120. iDavid, I like you.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 3:27 pm

  121. How can it be said that “truth wins out” when the whole article is based on lies!

    Comment by bc — July 10, 2011 @ 3:27 pm

  122. “sticker” = E-Ticket

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 3:30 pm

  123. What do you mean bc?

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 3:31 pm

  124. Don’t be too discouraged here Monique, you are walking onto an Americam battlefield with bullets bombs and dirt flying galore. We are VERY paternal country here, a man’s man country, with very little wiggle room at all for authentic human sexuality, hence we have alot of casualties of war limping through life the best they can, and w much rage and anger. I know im one of them. I don’t doubt we will be seeing suicides and such for years to come as a state by state conversion to gay marriage is very slow and very painful. But the tide is turning with the win in New York which is awesome. But it just pushes more buttons. Please pray for us!

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 3:56 pm

  125. Monique said “Somehow I imagined people who have gone throught the hardship of dealing with sexual orientation that is not accepted everywhere would be sensitive to other’s rights…”.

    I never said anything to suggest I’d deny you your rights, in fact its quite the opposite, I fully support bigots like you having equal rights however apparetnly you think you have the right to be free from criticism – you don’t.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 10, 2011 @ 3:57 pm

  126. Dear iDavid, I will certainly pray for you (you should know I have no idea what I believe in exactly but I do pray happily:) and I am so happy for everyone that at least New York has officially decided to recognise the dignity and respect for all people to marry if they choose to do so. Priya, thank you, however telling me to stop asking my question is not the same as criticism.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 4:05 pm

  127. I can only imagine how difficult this was for you. Thankfully at the end of it you can walk away knowing you were still in control the whole time, and weren’t vulnerable to what they were actually proposing.

    This therapy is so damaging and harmful. Even moreso when the “patients” are young children, who have NO idea who they are and have nothing to go by but what they are told about themselves.

    I am Kirk Murphy’s sister (Sissy Boy Experiment), and I am thrilled to see this come out.

    Thank you for undertaking this assignment to make it so.

    Comment by Maris — July 10, 2011 @ 4:10 pm

  128. Hey Maris…..Thx for dropping by. I saw the doc on Kirk and it tore me up. I certainly hope time has healed your wounds, and your brother’s. Many blessings to you.

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 4:29 pm

  129. @Wayne Besen:

    Thanks for responding to my question and (minor) criticism. I do want to emphasize that I think this is an excellent report and it is typical of the unique and compelling investigative work that you and your team do on this blog.

    Doesn’t it strike you as a bit odd that the per-session cost for a self-pay client is $73.44? Why wouldn’t they simply charge $75 or $70 or some other number rounded off to the nearest dollar? This suggests that they are receiving partial payment from another source and that John was charged for the remainder. Did John get any indication that they were getting reimbursed over and above the $73.44?

    I have a strong suspicion that there is much more to be said about the financial aspects of this story. We already know that there is a huge issue over the earmarks, both as to the accuracy of the clinic’s application for funds and as to the legality of the federal government funding a religious counseling service. Beyond that, as noted in Comment #51, there is the issue of insurance and what billing code the clinic uses for its “conversion” cases. If the clinic participates in Medicaid, Medicare, MinnesotaCare, or one of MN’s 2 other low income programs, that raises another potential issue of improper government funding.

    Comment by David — July 10, 2011 @ 4:32 pm

  130. On behalf of my beautiful and beloved lesbian granddaughter, my many gay male friends and my own heterosexual self – thank you for bravely accepting this difficult assignment and getting the truth out for the whole world to see!!

    Comment by Grammy Judy — July 10, 2011 @ 4:34 pm

  131. Dear John,
    When I first heard of this clinic I contacted the state to find out if Bachman had a license. He does not, but it looks like the employees do. Without a license, according to the MN Board of Psychology, it is also illegal for him to do any counseling, for pay or otherwise in MN.
    He got his PhD from Union Graduate School. An on line very expensive school. But if you have the bucks, you get the degree.
    Many thanks, Susan

    Comment by Susan C.Brown, M.A.L.P. — July 10, 2011 @ 5:08 pm

  132. Monique, you can ask what causes heterosexuality just as easily as you can ask what causes homosexuality, because it is very obvious that human sexuality encomapasses a range from one to the other, plus everything in between, plus all of the kinks and fetishes and interests and cultural expectations that muddy the waters still further.

    you are encountering anger and defensiveness for several reasons when you ask that question.

    1) The most common reason is that when a certain class of people ask that question, it is only because they wish to eliminate homsexuality. Eliminating homosexuality usually means only erasing any sign of it, as you cannot actually eliminate it. Heterosexuals, or god, or genes just keep producing more.

    Sometimes it means eliminating homsexuals. Naturally, we object to that.

    2)A second reason it gets people pissed off is becauase when another class of people ask the question, it is to “prove” thatr we are all really heterosexual, and that something bad had to happen that made someone gay, whch in turn means there is something wrong iwth being gay, which is turn means
    that basic civil rights, basic human decency, and basic compassion can be thrown out the window.

    See? There’s something wrong with you people. On top of that, you’re disgusting…

    (except lesbians, because they are really hot, as long as they fit the heterosexual ideal and where high heels when they have sex, but then go back to the men they really like– or something…

    and since there is something wrong with you, we can do whatever we want to you. your lives are not as valuable, tyour love, and your families are not as valuable as ours.

    And BTWm, we’d never treat anyone else who has been emotionally injured the way we ctreat you, you, and only you. Because that wouldn’t be nice, except in your case, becuase you are icky and we’re doing it For Your Own Good.

    Monique: Now do you understand why the quesiton is offensive?

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 10, 2011 @ 5:09 pm

  133. Thank you for this needed indictment of medical malpractice, which is definitely what is going on at this clinic. Taking money to treat homosexuality as a mental disorder is unethical and this clinic should be punished. Mr. Becker, you are very brave for doing this investigation and it has shed so much light on these so called reparative therapies. Keep up the good work!

    Comment by Kaitlin — July 10, 2011 @ 5:15 pm

  134. Dear Ben, I now understand why I am encountering anger and defensiveness. I also feel when I have a question, a sincere enquiry in my mind about a feeling which I do not have but which I would like to understand as fully as possible, it is a good think to try to get it answered properly, and properly seems to me to be, to ask a whole lot of gay people about it. I thank you for answering me in a way which makes me feel kind of respected as a worthy individual searching for knowledge and understanding. So I believe that not my question is offensive, but the world in which you live makes it offensive to you. If I were gay I am sure there would be a point at which I would wonder how come. It is exactly the same question I posed. No desire to eradicate anyone or anything, except perhaps nastiness in all it’s forms, but then that is not up to me.

    Comment by Monique — July 10, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  135. John, maybe you should sue for emotional discomfort for being told you were something you were not and should change your sexuality, and not that it harmed you out of confusion, but being told things that were untrue was a psychic hate crime causing you severe anxiety (disorder) at being attacked, of which you feel compensation is due.

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 5:41 pm

  136. Can’t stand bachman and her strange husband. This ridiculous belief that gays can change their sexual orientation thru “therapy” is sick and twisted. As far as I’m concerned it’s the same thing if a “therapist” attempted to change my orientation from a heterosexual women to a gay woman. WHY?? Why do they continue to relentlessly pursue gays? It’s NONE of their business. Most Americans do NOT have an issue with gays – why would we?? It’s none of our business. I’ve seen a lot of man/woman marriages that left a helluva lot to be desired on many counts. If a man loves a man and wishes to marry him – or a woman/woman marriage – Please, someone tell me a sane reason why that’s not ok. I call it bullshit and those far right extremists that use and abuse “religion” to support their hatred are the worst of humanity. Sorry for my soapbox rant. I personally love gay men and I certainly don’t feel uncomfortable around any women that prefer women – all wonderful people just like me and you. Stop the insanity!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by sharon — July 10, 2011 @ 6:37 pm

  137. Thank you. I had the sense of what you were asking and why, and so I tried to answer that.It’s why I wrote at all when I should be cooking dinner for eight people. :)

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 10, 2011 @ 6:46 pm

  138. What a crock of lies. Come out with video or just give up. I don’t believe you.

    Comment by Tim — July 10, 2011 @ 7:19 pm

  139. Michelle Bachman was approached by a few women in a restroom right after she gave a speech that included an anti-gay agenda – I believe one of those women was actually a nun…Bachman started screaming for help and ran out of the restroom like a crazy person as if she was being chased by flying monkeys. I don’t recall the details but it happened recently and was in the news. Neither woman was threatening – they just wanted to speak with her and she tried to make it look like the attacked her which was totally false. Bachman for POTUS? How in the hell did we get here?

    Comment by sharon — July 10, 2011 @ 7:22 pm

  140. Excellent report, John! I truly hope this gets further media attention. The Bachmans are dangerous.

    Comment by Ron — July 10, 2011 @ 8:17 pm

  141. Monique, it is time for you to stop posting.

    Comment by Kel — July 10, 2011 @ 8:28 pm

  142. RE #139: I’ve actually begun to wonder if perhaps Michelle is a lesbian, and her marriage to Marcus is a match made in ex-gay hell.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 10, 2011 @ 9:09 pm

  143. Yep — Monique, you have said enough. No more posting for 24 hours.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — July 10, 2011 @ 9:16 pm

  144. now I wonder if that skanky James O’Keefe, is or has been a patient…he seems to have identity issues…

    Comment by Colleen — July 10, 2011 @ 10:05 pm

  145. @Richard Rush,

    I had those exact thoughts myself a few days back. When I see them together, I sense a warbly wierdness. Velly stwange.

    Comment by iDavid — July 10, 2011 @ 10:33 pm

  146. [...] that insidious bigotry, along with Marcus Bachmann’s antigay “therapy” practice, suggested that there might be a more appropriate organization at which to fling the literally tens [...]

    Pingback by A Few More Words on Books Against Bachmann « Davis Ex Machina — July 10, 2011 @ 10:56 pm

  147. So someone goes to an accountant and asks for support on spending the most amount of money without care for the future or planning and gets it… unethical CPA? no! a person goes to a lawyer and asks how to get away with a crime they already committed, Unethical lawyer? no! a person goes to a therapists and asks to get rid of feelings of homosexuality and the therapist is unethical? NO! regardless of a persons sexual orientation, asking someone for help to get rid of feelings is the beginning of a long lists of lies to elicit the responses you want. Same thing that the people who went undercover in ACORN did. They lied and continued to lie just to get the answers they wanted.

    Comment by Bill Clinton — July 11, 2011 @ 12:44 am

  148. Let us try that again. Damned tablet!!!!!!!!!

    She asked a question, I answered it, she said she understood. What is the problem?

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 1:17 am

  149. [...] story of Becker’s 8-day ex-gay therapy at Bachmann and Associates is fascinating. Through Becker’s report it [...]

    Pingback by Undercover Gay Man Gets Reparative Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Ex-Gay Clinic / Queerty — July 11, 2011 @ 6:07 am

  150. [...] story of Becker’s 8-day ex-gay therapy at Bachmann and Associates is fascinating. Through Becker’s report it [...]

    Pingback by Undercover Gay Man Gets Reparative Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Ex-Gay Clinic | Gay News from Gay Agenda - GayAgenda.com — July 11, 2011 @ 6:14 am

  151. [...] fact, Mr. Michelle Bachmann apparently conducts that extremely harmful “ex-gay reparative” therapy I mentioned at his medical [...]

    Pingback by Tim Pawlenty says science still “disputing” whether being gay is a “choice”. Really? | Women's Interviews - The Daily Femme — July 11, 2011 @ 6:55 am

  152. Great work hope someone nominates you for a Tony Award, Oscar or whatever is appropriate. You “done good” by exposing the lies of this particular clinic and hope that you can wash your mind of the negativity.

    Comment by Don Craddock — July 11, 2011 @ 8:23 am

  153. [...] anti-gay “reparative therapy” at Marcus Bachmann’s counseling center surfaced July 8 after an undercover investigation. John Becker, an out gay man, went to Bachmann & Associates pretending to be struggling with [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann anti-gay counseling exposed | News Story on 365gay.com — July 11, 2011 @ 8:31 am

  154. [...] Allegations of anti-gay “reparative therapy” at Marcus Bachmann’s counseling center surfaced July 8 after an undercover investigation. [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann anti-gay counseling exposed | Gay News from Gay Agenda - GayAgenda.com — July 11, 2011 @ 9:14 am

  155. But wait, this guy is has a Masters from Argosy University. How Impressive! Another online degree?

    Comment by brian texas — July 11, 2011 @ 10:50 am

  156. @Ben 147 was not me.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 1:09 pm

  157. No, I was referring to the wishes of wayne and no more posting.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 1:31 pm

  158. Damien’s remarks about the “proofreader” is kind of ironic considering how confusing his own post was. I had to read it a few times before I could figure out what he was trying to say.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 1:57 pm

  159. Oh thank you, that is very nice. Luckily I was asleep but the ‘stop posting’ comments 3 hours after I had posted did seem a little gratuitious or superfluous or plain sad unless you dislike freedom (of speech) for others. I hope your dinner went well!

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 2:12 pm

  160. This site is so laughable…I mean for all of you to fall for this stupid fake interview is hilarious. The left will stop at nothing — make things up for the left — the left eats it up like it’s candy — begs for more lies.

    Yes, the left lives on hate. They can’t get enough of it. Yet, gay people preach they just want to love and be loved — yet, all I see from the left gay’s is hate.

    There is no video.

    The marriage is already defined as between 1 man and 1 woman. But the left wants to define it for themselves. 2 men, 2 women, soon it will be polygamy, incest, on and on. Once the door is cracked it’s only a matter of time before it’s wide open.

    You don’t know Michele or Marcus. Most likely you don’t know anyone that doesn’t think differently then yourself. Anyone who has a different manner of opinion is a bigot, hater, and the list goes on and on.

    Do you teach your children to hate those who think differently than yourself?

    And since this is titled “The Truth Wins Out” I challenge you to release the video. But it doesn’t exist does it? So much easier to write a fantasy, pass it on as truth, and dangle video so all the rabid leftists go crazy.

    Grow up.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 2:57 pm

  161. Talk about ‘growing up’? Tim, why don’t you try it yourself. Unlike yourself, who in all likelihood has no gay friends (that you are aware of), gay folks have lotsa straight friends. We mix & mingle all over the place, didn’t you know that? We don’t hate straight people but we do have trouble with people who hate us, & anyone who would deny us equal rights and civil rights, is showing their hatred for us. You can call it ‘xtian love’ all you want but whether it’s you or Dr. Michael Brown, you are very deceived if you think that you do not hate us.

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 3:09 pm

  162. @Tim

    Laughable is it? The video and audio doesn’t have to be shared here – only with the national media… wait … wait… the Nation – a national news magazine, covering the story — other links, other outlets, covering it all over. Why? Oh yeah, its the documentary evidence provided by the video and audio. Hmmmmm….

    The “Left” will stop at nothing huh? Let me ask you something, do you ACTUALLY KNOW anyone who is really on the Left? I’ll bet the answer is no if you can actually spit that statement out and think its real.

    And then, you think that by asserting something doesn’t exist you will take its existence away — that doesn’t really work you know. Truly.

    As for me, I started out as a Republican conservative (old meaning of the second word – no social connotation). I stayed in the party for almost a decade after I could vote — but the very real lies and endless hate convinced me that it wasn’t the party for me, and I became a Democrat liberal, where I am quite happy thank you. You’d be amazed how many other people I know that did the same. I know them, but you know, I know a lot of people who think VERY differently from myself as well. Oddly, that doesn’t make either of us wrong – although to be fair, most of them avoid talking serious subjects like politics and religion with me, for some reason.

    Regards,

    Reyn

    Comment by Reyn — July 11, 2011 @ 3:15 pm

  163. Oh, interesting. So, you imply that I hate you. Very interesting. Your straight friends though I am sure are all about your special rights as a member of the gay community. I would also go to say that you would not be friends with a straight person who may believe that one must love the sinner and hate the sin. Meaning – people who disagree with the lifestyle – you are not friends with.

    Remember, man may change the rules but God’s rules never change.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  164. My posting is really to say that I know this story is fake. And if it’s not then the video should be released. Lies and deceit should really stop if you want to be taken serious.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 3:22 pm

  165. Yes, but gods rules are “love one another” and “don’t judge”.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 3:23 pm

  166. Then I wonder why your so quick to judge those who are not accepting of the homosexual lifestyle.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 3:28 pm

  167. Tim, seriously (or as serious as possible) WHY do you think that this story is a fake. It sounds entirely kosher to me. And I’ve never bought that love the sinner hate the sin nonsense either. I do NOT have a ‘lifestyle’ I have a life. As does everyone else here at this site. And I am not looking for ‘special’ rights, just plain ol’ garden variety equal rights. I’m in Massachusetts so should I have a notion I know that I could get married & receive respect & goodwill from most folks. Too bad the rest of the country cannot say the same. But here’s a cheery note to end on – your type are fast becoming a minority. I know because I hear all the bellowing from the religious right about how they want THEIR special rights!

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 3:31 pm

  168. ‘Not excepting the homosexual lifestyle’? What does that even mean? Maybe I should just decide not to ‘accept’ the straight guy’s lifestyle. After all, you CHOSE to be straight, right?

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 3:33 pm

  169. Why, Tim?

    First of course, there was no judgment. All I did was report god’s rules.

    But more important is this. Whenever someone says something like “disagree with” or “unaccepting of” “the homosexual lifestyle”, i know first and foremost that they are ignorant of gay people, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and the extreme prejudice of the last 17 centuries of anti-gay behaviour by people who profess both love and god’s blessings.

    Second, I also know that such people are more than happy to deny my right to exist free of their prejudice, that they wish to disadvantage me in whate ver ways they can, and that thet absolutely intend me no good except as they define good, which usually has nothing to do with me, but everything to do with them.

    The real quesiton is, why do you wish no good to people you do not know, know nothing about, and who have done you no harm?

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 3:48 pm

  170. Ah Devin….this story wreaks of attention seeking behavior. This reminds me of the Syrian lesbian blogger story.

    Sad really —

    As far as the religious right goes…..like I posted before….man may change the rules but God’s rules never change. He is constant and there is refuge in knowing that….everlasting and never changing.

    The left is all about distortion and destruction. My kids were no longer safe in public school anymore because they had to be accepting of the alternative lifestyles. Being in disagreement would get them in trouble with so called “bullying” rules. So, they were the bully because they also disagreed with the lifestyle of some. Gay teachers treated my children differently and eventually I had to pull them from the public school system.

    If there was such a thing as a straight pride parade – how would you react.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 3:50 pm

  171. Tim said ” I would also go to say that you would not be friends with a straight person who may believe that one must love the sinner and hate the sin. Meaning – people who disagree with the lifestyle – you are not friends with.”.

    You know “love the sinner and hate the sin” is not in your bible. When you hate a core aspect of a person, such as their sexuality you hate a key part of that person – there is no such thing as “ove the sinner and hate the sin”.

    Tell me Tim, would you be friends with somone who thougth your being a christian was evil, someone who wants to deny you the right to marry, have a job, or a place to live? Of course not, and yet like the idiot you are you somehow think gay people owe it to bigots like you to be your friends.

    You’re full of shit Tim. Take your hate and nurture and grow it until it consumes you and destroys any shreds of happiness you might have left.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 3:52 pm

  172. Tim said “If there was such a thing as a straight pride parade – how would you react.”.

    I’d say “Great, party on.”. However whenever you bigots hold a “straight pride” or “protect” marriage its never actually about being proud of being straight or helping heterosexual people, its always about attacking gays and depriving them of their rights – you always lie about what you’re really about.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  173. Nice Priya. The hate is showing through with you. You must be a pretty unhappy person.

    Marriage – definition between one man and one woman. If you want to call it something else go ahead. Your movement is attempting to silence me and my biblical beliefs. And once you get confronted …. it’s no longer rational talk but comments such as you just said to me…. “Take your hate and nurture and grow it until it consumes you and destroys any shreds of happiness you might have left.”

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 3:59 pm

  174. And now you have trouble with anti-bullying programs? Fortunately when I was younger I managed to avoid the school bullies but friends of mine did not. Just acquainting your children with the notion that they should not be bullying ANYONE, that ‘gay’ should not be used in a derogatory manner, is SO threatening to you that you had to resort to homeschooling? How sad for your kids! Well, gays are everywhere, y’know? Sooner or later your kids will have to learn that we exist and we aren’t going anywhere. You might try to get used to the idea yourself. And if one of your children was born gay, I hope you will not kick him or her out of your house or resort to quackery ex-gay organizations. Gay is not contagious, it is ‘born’ & I doubt your kids will thank you for removing them from the real world & homeschooling them.

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 4:03 pm

  175. One would wonder, tim, exactly what your children might have been doing to break the anti-bullying rules and attract the attention of the school auhtorities? And I wonder what those gay teachers were doing and saying that didn’t cause you to file– and win– an anti-discirmination or harrassment lawsuit against them and the schools?

    Could it be that they treated your children far more civilly– and with documentation– than your children were treating other people with whom their father disagreed?

    And as for a straight pride parade?

    We can have those when straight people are imprisoned for being strraight, when they are denied the right to form a legal family with another person they have shared decades of their lives with, when their children are taken away from them becuase their parents are heteorsexual, when they have political campaigns directed against heterosexual wherein they are called a threat to family-faith-children-marriage-faith-andgoddamned-western-civilizaiton, when they are forbidden to serve in the military…

    and finally, when there are battalions of pig-ignorant, bible-based, moralizing, hypocritical bigots willing to hazard their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor in pursuit of making as difficult and unpleasant as possible the lives of people they do not know, know nothing about, and who have done them, and intend them, no harm.

    When that happens, I’ll not only help you organize the parade, I’ll even build you a float.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 4:07 pm

  176. Actually Tim I’m extremely happy, never been happier in my life, I often literally jump for joy because I’m married to the most wonderful man in the world.

    Actually (unfortunately for you) the times are a-changin’ and many dictionaries define marriage as a union of two people. You don’t own the word marriage, we have just as much right to it as you and many of us will define our marriages as same sex unions and no matter how you whine and no matter how you cry nothing will change that.

    You’re all about hate Tim, that’s why you come here to express your hatred towards LGBT people. Your disdain drips from your posts and its laughable to watch you pathetically try to put up a facade and call it “love”.

    No one has ever tried to silence you or your biblical beliefs Tim. You’re confusing criticism of your beliefs with attempts to silence your beliefs. You have a right to free speech, but you don’t have a right to be free from criticism TFB for you.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:07 pm

  177. I said I removed them from the public school system. And who said my children were the bullies – not I. So quick to jump and think it was my children who were the instigators.

    Anyway, enjoy your Monday and am seriously looking forward to the “video”.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 4:08 pm

  178. Oh yes, Tim, as Devin pointed out, the fact that you removed your children from school because they were being taught not to bully gay children is proof of your utter hatred and desire to harm gays. What a waste of a life you are.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:09 pm

  179. Tim

    If “God’s rules never change. He is constant and there is refuge in knowing that….everlasting and never changing.”, why don’t we have polygamy now? We had it in the Old Testament, and “God’s rules never change”.

    And how old were you when you decided to be heterosexual, Tim? When you made a conscious, deliberate, decision to be heterosexual?

    Comment by PhilipJ — July 11, 2011 @ 4:12 pm

  180. Priya Lynn, man, do you manage to lower the level of the conversation with your abusive replies. I can not hear your sense because of the noise you are making. I suspect you don’t even want anyone to listen to what you have to say, you just like to attack.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:15 pm

  181. Tim, you are jumping the gun (again). Nowhere did I say your children were anti-gay bullies. I said that they were removed from school because you were afraid for them to learn that it is not right to bully ANYONE! Now, go back and re-read what I said again & you will see that you are so hung-up with your own hatred that you can’t even read straight.

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 4:15 pm

  182. Monique, why are you attacking Priya? Are you a friend of Tim’s or something?

    Comment by Devin — July 11, 2011 @ 4:16 pm

  183. Tim, I feel sorry for your children. You’re instilling this bigotry and hate in them that will make it very hard for them to get along in the world. When they get older and are no longer living under your rule they will have to get along with other people and you’re damaging their ability to do that.

    It’s too bad. Really, it’s child abuse.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:24 pm

  184. I don’t know any of you. I am a friend generally of people who manage to respond without getting nasty. Who manage to conduct themselves in the way they would like others to respond to them. I like people who dare say what is on their mind, without it necessarily being right, because clearly no man or woman has been smart enough ever to have been right on everything. I believe life is much nicer when no one is vilified by someone who feels attacked by a different opinion. Priya has alsready replied to my honest enquiries in the past posts and managed to make me feel much less than respected and hurt me in my dignity as a fallible but trying human being. There is no need for nastiness, There is no good use for nastiness. No wrong makes nastiness right. It might make it understandable for a while, but not all right.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:24 pm

  185. Monique, you really need to read the thread before you comment. If you had read what Tim wrote you wouldn’t be posting against Priya right here and now. I know your feelings were hurt last night but you really need to get over it.

    By the way, a lot of your questions could be answered by using Google. And really, it would help you a lot to think through your questions before typing them.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:25 pm

  186. A lot of the posters have managed to write with dignity and respect but Priya Lynn is not one of them so far.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:26 pm

  187. Okay, Monique, we get it. You don’t like Priya. Your feelings were hurt. But, I think if you went back and read what you posted last night you might understand why Priya got irritated with you. It’s also important for you to realize that this isn’t about you. If you would do some reading on this site before you come on asking questions that are bound to provoke and offend people you wouldn’t be surprised when people are offended at your repeated question of whether your aunt’s odd way of touching can turn people gay.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:29 pm

  188. Oh this is so funny…..if you only knew Daniel. If I said the things you and Priya said to me, I would not be able to sleep at night.

    What do you think of child molesters?

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 4:30 pm

  189. Monique I show people dignity and respect as long as they do the same. I was patient and respectful with you until it was clear you were just ignoring what you had been told and obnoxiously pushing the anti-gay line that parents teach their children to he gay.

    Tim started out being an a*hole from the word go so I owed no respect or dignity to him from the start.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:31 pm

  190. Tim, your children are children–you’re an adult who comes on here and says asinine things. Priya being nasty to you is just what you want. You want to be abused here–it’s why you troll here in the first place.

    And you may not be sexually molesting your children but you’re still abusing them.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:33 pm

  191. Tim the hatred you’ve spouted about gays here and pulling your children out of school because you don’t want them to be taught not to bully gays ought to keep you awake at night.
    But it won’t because you have no conscience, its all about you, if you are not allowed to deny gays equal rights that infringes on your rights.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:33 pm

  192. Tim thinks the story is fake and there is no video. So what, he can think that. Tim thinks the bible tells him God is against homosexuality. What good does it do to get nasty when replying to him? WHen Tim says he does not hate homosexuals why put words in his mouth and say that he does? Why make big generalisations that all people do this and all do that and all feel this always and all always do that? How does that sound any different from you regular bigot making big sweeping statements? Does it even sound smart? Does it sound like something you could get a pass in an essay for? Is it going to make anyone think twice about their differing opinion? Is it going to make someone angry or more negative? Possibly. And isn’t that a shame? Isn’t that a wasted opportunity? To talk with someone and show how good you are and thereby sow a seed of doubt already?

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:34 pm

  193. Oh Daniel —- you have played into my hands so well. Just like the fictitious story written about the Bachman’s – everything I told you was a fictitious story.

    You also proved my theory by resorting to nasty behavior. Then to top it off and say I was abusing my children. Ah…..thanks for playing.

    Enjoy your day.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 4:36 pm

  194. Okay Monique, now you’re just being dense again and I’m starting to think you’re as much a troll as he is. It doesn’t matter if Tim thinks his bigotry is justified by the Bible–racists also think their bigotry is justified by the Bible, people who hate women think their misogyny is justified by the Bible. But guess what–they’re all still bigots.

    If you think everyone should be lovey and not get offended you’re on the wrong site. You also need to realize that you, as a heterosexual, are in a privileged position and when you talk to people who don’t share your background you need to learn to talk to them just as much as they need to learn to talk to you.

    And yes, I do think I’m right when I say that homophobia is bad and that we should fight against unequal laws. You also need to realize that the laws and rules in the Netherlands are very different than they are here in the USA–there are still many anti-gay laws on the books.

    Also, you seem to keep implying that if people are mean to you on this site you’re going to turn anti-gay. I’m sorry but that’s just b.s. If you’re in so much danger of turning anti-gay you’re already anti-gay.

    If you want to go somewhere where everyone is going to be nice to you this isn’t the spot–and in reality your posts aren’t as full of love as you seem to think they are. But if you want to keep posting here you should at least try to educate yourself a little.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:43 pm

  195. Ah Tim, so you’re a liar. Wonder what the Bible says about that?

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 4:43 pm

  196. It’s true. I spoke out against lying quite often but didn’t ever mention homosexuality.

    Comment by Jesus — July 11, 2011 @ 4:45 pm

  197. WHen Tim says he does not hate homosexuals why put words in his mouth and say that he does?

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  198. Oops, made that last post in error.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:49 pm

  199. There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.

    Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”1
    Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
    1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
    Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”

    Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

    Comment by Tim — July 11, 2011 @ 4:49 pm

  200. Daniel I am going to sleep. Never said my posts are full of love. Never impied I would turn “anti-gay”. Implied that nastiness could loose my support. Loss of support does not imply crusading against. What is this forced choice between pro-gay and anti? If you wonder whether homosexuality starts at conception, birth or after, you are against homosexuals? If you wonder about nature and nurture you are anit-gay? If gay was learned would it have to loose you rights? If, and I say if because I do not know, gay comes from nurture or an extra dose of pre natal testosterone why would it have to be wrong to be gay because of it? None of that follows.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:52 pm

  201. Monique said “WHen Tim says he does not hate homosexuals why put words in his mouth and say that he does?”

    I didn’t put words in his mouth. Tim made his hate abundantly clear when he blamed gays for polygamy and incest when he demanded gays not have the same rights he takes for granted, when he said gays are all about destruction, when he laughably then said it was the left who was all about lies and hate, and when he said he took his children out of school so they wouldn’t be taught not to bully gay children.

    I noticed you’re quick to demand that we not call Tim a hater but you have no problem with him calling all LGBTs haters and liars. Its pretty clear where you’re coming from Monique, you’re anything but unbiased.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 4:53 pm

  202. Never claimed to be unbiased Priya, as I do not believe it attainable. I appreciate you toning down your tone. Thank you.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

  203. Tim, your god is imaginary and your bible has no more validity than the book of the flying sphagetti monster.

    Part of the obvious idiocy of your bible is that you claim it gayness has a “severe judgement” on it. The punishement should fit the crime and something like gayness which harms no one is thus by definition no crime, no sin, no wrongdoing. That you think harmless innocent people should be eternally tortured shows the depravity of your bible and your mind.

    Monique said ” Never impied I would turn “anti-gay”. Implied that nastiness could loose my support. “.

    Lol! Monique, silly girl: “anti-gay”= “loose my support” – you just admitted that you were going to become anti-gay not out of any principle of morality, but solely because you think some gay people were mean to you.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 5:01 pm

  204. [...] While that was 2004, according to an undercover report by the LGBT equality group Truth Wins Out, the clinic is still doing the same kind of therapy. John Becker of TWO spent a week in late-June undergoing the therapy. [...]

    Pingback by Reports: Bachmann’s clinic performs ‘ex-gay’ therapy | turnleft | turnleft — July 11, 2011 @ 5:13 pm

  205. Priya, I can see that you are not interested in quoting fairly. You would do well as an undercover ‘anti-gay’ (quote) agent trying to discredit LGBT’s by posting as a dimwit with a vengeance. I can not waste my energy on this low level of retaliation any longer. Any one else will do. Sleep well, whenever.

    Comment by Monique — July 11, 2011 @ 5:18 pm

  206. Monique, really? You come on here and stir things up and then say “I’m going to sleep”, and then complain that people are putting words in your mouth. It’s very passive agressive. If you want to have a serious discussion here I’m sure you can, but you need to educate yourself, not just “think about it”. The people on this site don’t exist to educate you. I’m sure in the Netherlands there are plenty of resources. And in any case, if you have access to the internet there are even more.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 5:24 pm

  207. Tim, there’s a whole lot more about lying in the Bible. It’s even in the top 10–homosexuality didn’t even make that list. But here you are bearing false witness. God won’t be happy with you. She’ll be downright pissed.

    Comment by Daniel — July 11, 2011 @ 5:25 pm

  208. Tim, since you are one of “those who are not accepting of the homosexual lifestyle,” there is a very simple solution: Don’t engage in that lifestyle. Why isn’t that enough for you? Obviously, it’s because you are a compulsive authoritarian busybody who arrogantly assumes the entitlement to control the lives of everyone else. You and your children should to move to a remote island, as you will never be happy in a pluralistic society.

    Tim, unlike your authoritarian bigoted asshole lifestyle, our “lifestyle” doesn’t seek to change yours, other than to defend ourselves against your controlling tentacles.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 11, 2011 @ 5:28 pm

  209. Tim, if you are going to quote romans, you really need to understand the meaning of the word WHEREFORE.

    And no one is repsondng to me. Why do I feel left out?

    Sniff.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 5:44 pm

  210. Tim, I just read your comment #199:

    It’s now 2011. Do you really still believe that ancient superstitious nonsense? Seriously? Unlike those ancient people who were understandably trying to make some sense out of a world about which they knew nothing, we have SCIENCE now. It really is time for you to grow up.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 11, 2011 @ 5:45 pm

  211. [...] Allegations of anti-gay “reparative therapy” at Marcus Bachmann’s counseling center surfaced July 8 after an undercover investigation. [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann anti-gay counseling exposed | LGBT Human Rights. Gay News, Entertainment, Travel — July 11, 2011 @ 5:58 pm

  212. Right Monique – I quoted you verbatim, that’s not fair in your world. I’d probably feel the same way if I was as irrational as you.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 11, 2011 @ 5:59 pm

  213. This is particularly disconcerting given the fact that Marcus Bachmann’s clinic has received significant funding from the State of Minnesota and the federal government.

    —

    There is your operative statement to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bachmann’s practice is unethical and designed specifically to suck off the gov’t teat. It’s disconcerting because IT IS A SHAM.

    Marcus has been exposed to be a closeted gay man, sucking down gov’t money to provide fake services. Michelle has proven she’s a bobblehead, more interested in total distractions (gay marriage and porn) instead of leadership.

    You can’t find a more perfect example of how the GOP has become a party that is not interested in governing, but rather in moralizing. They have become a bona fide religious party, and are no longer a political party.

    The GOP needs to lose its tax exempt status. NOW.

    Comment by Mark — July 11, 2011 @ 6:25 pm

  214. Someone needs to do a little investigation on Marcus Bachmann himself. He got his undergraduate degree at Regent University, which is hardly a qualification to screw up people’s lives, and his “PHd” was acquired at “Union Graduate School” in Ohio, which is basically on online diploma mill specializing in “Distance Learning” and can deliver a diploma in 2 short years. The requirements for time spent on study, etc., are very loose, as are any reporting or review standards.
    I’m not sure when he graduated, but prior to 2004 there were periods of time where the “University” was sanctioned by the State of Ohio, and forced to restructure their PHd program to more closely resemble those of traditional universities.
    In addition, Marcus doesn’t seem to be licensed by any authority, he just calls himself a “Clinical Therapist” and makes it up as he goes along.
    I don’t think he has any business messing around in people’s lives. He’s a fraud.

    Comment by Tricynical — July 11, 2011 @ 6:42 pm

  215. “For God so loved the world that who so ever believeth in Him shall not perish but have ecerlasting life.” John 3:16

    Hi All I am a Christian a Gay Male a Single Dad a Widower I was with my Husband for 18 1/2 years we have a wonderful Son.Jim my Husband died suddenly a few years ago of a heart attack r/t to a genetic defect of the heart. I loved him and cherished him we built a beutiful life together. Upon his death due to the Inequality of this country of my hjome state of Florida I lost almost everything. My home but I kept our son I fought for him and my Family although smaller stayed intact. If we had been married if there had been equality for us I would not have had to deal with so many losses in such a short time. But this world is filled of people who are filled with Hate who love to Descriminate. When I was just a boy I was stabbed and left for dead because I was gay. Back in the 80′s there was no such thing as hate crimes in fact one officer told another as I lay bleeding in the ER “Well he is just some dumb faggot who probably got what he deserved” Our country has come so far but not far enough as long as there are people who can have and descriminate people of color people who are different people who are gay. I will never be able to marry my beautiful Jim ignorant people kept me from that equality BUT people like me should have equality the able to love to live their lives with happiness and out in the open with pride. I find people with no tolerance for change for growth for equality to be pathetic I find the Bachmans to be disgusting and I pray that the American public sees the hate they spew. I have said a lot but for all you people who would hold the Bible in fromt of themselves to hide their faces to disguise their descrimination and hatred of their Brothers and Sisters who are Gay and Lesbian For those of you who speak for God don’t ! The most important verse in the Bible is John 3:16
    Drew in Florida

    Comment by Drew from Florida — July 11, 2011 @ 6:50 pm

  216. Drew, i’m sorry for your loss.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 11, 2011 @ 7:00 pm

  217. Me too Ben but you know what I was in a happy and loving relationship for nearly 2 decades we didnt break up we loved one another and respected one another we had a beautiful life as any gay couple can but we all deal with the hatred and the inequalities forced on us. Change is happening but even with change there will always be The Bachmans and the Tims of the world filled with hate and hiding behind God . God stands next to me he carries me through the hard times he holds my hand and guides me but I have never had to hide behind him I stand tall and with love and pride for I am made in His image. God loves me Anyway not to turn this into a religious debate I just feel that so many that want to represent our country do not represent me and Michelle Bachman and her Husband are a sad and scarey representation of the Republican Party I would almost want yet another Bush to run…

    Comment by Drew from Florida — July 11, 2011 @ 7:12 pm

  218. Amazing work! Kudos to you for having the cajones to go through something like that.

    Your right! It’s about time that Marcus and Michele Bachmann are exposed as the frauds they are.

    Comment by Bernie — July 11, 2011 @ 7:12 pm

  219. [...] who went undercover at the Bachmann clinic in Lake Elmo, Minn. John Becker, a gay activist, writes that it became clear to him in several sessions that therapists at the clinic believe they can [...]

    Pingback by Barbarians Rejoice – You can just ‘Pray the Gay’ Away with Bachmann | — July 12, 2011 @ 10:17 am

  220. Why do people doing politics always assume their enemies are evil? Why can’t we just talk to each other?

    Comment by John J — July 12, 2011 @ 11:17 am

  221. Hey Tim, I hope you’re enjoying TWO’s video that’s been popping up on multiple TV programs! Now, don’t you feel like a jackass? Have a nice day.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 12, 2011 @ 11:37 am

  222. [...] patient who went undercover at the Bachmann clinic in Lake Elmo, Minn. John Becker, a gay activist, writes that it became clear to him in several sessions that therapists at the clinic believe they can [...]

    Pingback by Michele Bachmann under fire for ‘gay therapy,’ police reports, IRS work | Christian Media Cross — July 12, 2011 @ 12:35 pm

  223. [...] he is now doing) what his counselor advised. Becker, who works for a gay rights organization, posted information about the experience on the group’s web site: I was advised to find a heterosexual “accountability buddy” as I [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann Under Fire Amid Controversial ‘Pray the Gay Away’ Allegations — July 12, 2011 @ 1:24 pm

  224. [...] by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and her husband, Marcus (pictured). The investigation came after an advocate from Truth Wins Out went undercover at Bachmann & Associates and was subjected to what appeared to be “ex-gay” conversion [...]

    Pingback by The GLAAD Daily: Bachmann, Marriage in Maryland, the 9th U.S. Circuit & DADT | GLAADBlog.org — July 12, 2011 @ 2:46 pm

  225. [...] by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and her husband, Marcus (pictured). The investigation came after an advocate from Truth Wins Out went undercover at Bachmann & Associates and was subjected to what appeared to be “ex-gay” conversion [...]

    Pingback by The GLAAD Daily: Bachmann, Marriage in Maryland, the 9th U.S. Circuit & DADT | LGBT Human Rights. Gay News, Entertainment, Travel — July 12, 2011 @ 2:59 pm

  226. I can’t imagine why Marcus Bachmann, Ph.D. chooses to beat around the bush about whether or not his clinic practices “reparative therapy.” Given his and his wife’s celebrated commitment to a brand of Christianity that equates homosexuality with alcoholism and prostitution, why isn’t he honest enough to just come right out and acknowledge what he and his clinic do?

    I remember infiltrating a two-day conference on “homosexuality and other trauma-induced sexual sins” in San Diego in 1990 and being astonished at some of the stuff I heard, including that one of the courses at the programs the participants were talking up was teaching ex-Lesbian clients to wear makeup and drop earrings instead of studs. (I couldn’t help but wonder if the ex-Lesbians were being given makeup instruction from the ex-Gay men who had been drag queens.)

    The featured speaker at this conference was Sy Rogers, one of the biggest screaming queens I ever met. He claimed to have been married and successfully changed to a heterosexual — though he admitted that the first time he had sex with his wife (which was also the first sexual experience he’d ever had with a woman) he didn’t feel the same intensity that he had with his male partners. So he contacted his heterosexual “accountability buddy” and was told, “It’s not supposed to be that intense.” If Rogers’ high-pitched voice and flaming manner didn’t mark him as a queen — no matter what he’s doing sexually and who he’s doing it with — his penchant for quoting the lyrics of songs associated with Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand sure did.

    What amazed me most of all about this experience, though, was what happened to me in the Gay bars when I mentioned to several patrons that I was about to have an article about my experience published in a local Queer paper. At least two men asked me how to get in touch with the organizers of the conference, obviously with an idea of availing themselves of the services of “conversion therapists.” I suspect there are a lot of men out there who aren’t satisfied with their Gay lives and want to “change,” and we in the Queer (an all-inclusive term I use because I can’t stand that horrid acronym “LGBT”) community who deny that people can or may want to change their sexual orientation are doing ourselves and our fellow Queers no favors.

    I’m a bit unusual in that, though I can look back and find that there were clues before that, I can’t remember actually being conscious of being Gay until I was 24, was cruised by a fellow student at the San Francisco State University bookstore and realized (after a sleepless night) that I was going to call the number this man had given me and I was going to have sex with him. I don’t think Queer people are “born that way” or that sexual orientations can’t change — there are too many stories of people living as heterosexuals for years and then coming out as Gay or Lesbian for me not to believe that that process doesn’t sometimes work the other way. I also believe that the very existence of Bisexual and Transgender people argues against the idea that sexual orientations and gender identities are fixed for all time and don’t change from one’s birth to one’s death.

    I can object to the insane processes of Exodus International, Love in Action or whatever they’re calling themselves these days without denying the real experiences of people who have fallen in love with a person of the gender they had previously thought definitively they WEREN’T attracted to. And as for religion, I’m a lifelong atheist and thereby I never had to deal with a guilt trip from the leaders of a religion with an agenda to make me hate myself for wanting or enjoying sex with other males.

    It’s taken me a long time (and falling in love with three Gay Christians in a row, including my current husband, who’s been my partner for over 16 years and we’ve been legally married for three) to come to accept the importance of faith in other people’s lives. Though I don’t believe myself, I agree with Karen Armstrong, who wrote that all religious traditions are legitimate as long as they are rooted in love. It’s when they lose sight of love and embrace hate as part of their creed — when they wage holy wars or kill 3,000 innocent people in New York and Washington or assassinate the prime minister of Israel for trying to negotiate peace with the Palestinians or murder abortion doctors or release poison gas in subways or drive people to suicide for supposedly having the “wrong” sexual orientation — that they lose any entitlement to the respect of others and become dangers to their members and the human race as a whole.

    Just one more point: have you ever noticed that the hard-core “Christians” like Mr. and Mrs. Bachmann and their religious brethren and sistren hardly ever quote the Gospels? Their speeches are full of the Old Testament prophets and the Book of Revelation, but they don’t often mention the books of the Bible that purport to report what their religion’s founder preached and believed. Apparently “God is love,” “Love thy neighbor as thyself,” “Blessed are the poor,” “Blessed are the peacemakers,” “Blessed are the meek,” “As you have done to the least of thee, you have done to me” and “When you pray, be not as the hypocrites who pray on the street corners” aren’t sentiments that sit well with Right-wing so-called “Christians” like the Bachmanns.

    Comment by Mark Conlan — July 12, 2011 @ 4:03 pm

  227. Drew,

    I just had to leave a note saying Thank you for the short story of your life. I feel the hurt still there.. & I know some of that pain.

    …

    Comment by Brian — July 12, 2011 @ 4:33 pm

  228. [...] he is now doing) what his counselor advised. Becker, who works for a gay rights organization, posted information about the experienceon the group’s web site: I was advised to find a heterosexual “accountability buddy” as I [...]

    Pingback by BACHMANN UNDER FIRE AMID CONTROVERSIAL ‘PRAY THE GAY AWAY’ ALLEGATIONS — July 12, 2011 @ 9:11 pm

  229. A sin is a sin and it is against God’s law to be homosexual no matter what the excuse is. Either you are for God, or you are against Him. It is your choice.

    Comment by Kay — July 12, 2011 @ 10:05 pm

  230. And a lot of us don’t buy into that fuddy-duddy little fairy tale that many people have going…why should we?

    He loves you, but only if you’re straight? Give me a f***ing break! It’s oh-so-hard to understand why I’m a humanistic atheist…why would I wanna hang my hat on a hypocritical deity that has NO proof, only a description by people who pick-and-choose what they want to enforce with the “with us or against us” logic.

    Well, missy, a lot of us are against ya, and DAMN PROUD to be so! =)

    Comment by Cody — July 12, 2011 @ 10:16 pm

  231. Kay, did you post on other topics under the names becky and elsa?

    Comment by Daniel — July 12, 2011 @ 10:50 pm

  232. Kay, your “God’s law” is of no concern to me. It’s not a matter of being “for God” or “against Him.” I’ve studied the issue and thought about it for years, and concluded that gods do not exist.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 12, 2011 @ 11:25 pm

  233. No Kay.

    Either YOU– as in YUOU-0- are against god, or you are for him. you are in no spiritual position ot judghe other people’s relationship with god.

    What part of JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED are You, Kay, free to ignore?

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 12, 2011 @ 11:31 pm

  234. BTW, richard, thank you for your nice words.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 13, 2011 @ 1:03 am

  235. [...] filmed five treatment sessions he received at one of Marcus Bachmann’s clinics. Here’s how Becker describes the counselor’s [...]

    Pingback by Reports: Bachmann’s husband got $161,000 in taxpayer dollars to practice discredited ‘ex-gay’ therapy | Secular News Daily — July 13, 2011 @ 5:02 am

  236. Brave man. You do your husband proud, methinks.

    Comment by anon — July 13, 2011 @ 8:23 am

  237. Marcus Bachmann has never denied that hs clinic respects patient wishes regarding unwanted SSA. When he said “barbarians” he was obviously referring to kids, not gays. The auhor’s coounselor reacted fairly reasonably, especially given the fraud being conducted by he author. There’s not really any news here. Wayne and TWO are disingnuous liars. People can change. Let them.

    Comment by Omar — July 13, 2011 @ 8:56 am

  238. Omar, come back when you are older & have learned how to spell, OK? When Bachmann said ‘barbarians’ he may have been referring primarily to teens but he was obviously calling gay teens ‘barbarians’ and that is not acceptable. Whether he meant gays in general or specifically gay teens, he was demeaning all of us since we were all gay teens at some point in our lives!

    Comment by Devin — July 13, 2011 @ 9:00 am

  239. I just learned this about Marcus Bachmann this morning from my cousin. Since I will not vote for Obama, I have no one to vote for – the whole Republican slate is so obviously faulty. Mitt Romney is the maybe the least objectionable, but he’s flip flopped around a lot, not to mention the MA health care system. But at least it’s state based, which I find more palatable than stretching the Commerce Clause way beyond what it was intended for. I honestly don’t know who I’ll vote for, but certainly not for someone whose husband tries to “fix” gay people when there’s nothing wrong with them.

    Comment by Sue Straka — July 13, 2011 @ 9:17 am

  240. So what exactly is wrong with Mass. health care. I live in Mass. & find that the health care bill is working just fine for everybody. It’s just what the nation as a whole needs, to look after Everyone & protect us from Insurance companies.

    Comment by Devin — July 13, 2011 @ 9:22 am

  241. It would seem Anita Bryant’s strain of disease has made it into the feminie political arena, again, as Bachmann could be her freaky twin sister. It may be time to roll out the pies?

    Comment by iDavid — July 13, 2011 @ 11:02 am

  242. Mark said “there are too many stories of people living as heterosexuals for years and then coming out as Gay or Lesbian for me not to believe that that process doesn’t sometimes work the other way. I also believe that the very existence of Bisexual and Transgender people argues against the idea that sexual orientations and gender identities are fixed for all time and don’t change from one’s birth to one’s death.”.

    You’re confusing a change of partners with a change of orientation. As a bisexual who has gone from women to men to women and back to a man I can tell you that sexual orientation does not change, just that bisexuals give you the false impression that it does. When I was with women I was always attracted to men, when I’ve been with men I’ve always been attracted to women. My bisexuality has never changed and you’d be wrong to assume that just because a bisexual is with an opposite sex partner they are straight and that if they go to a same sex partner that suddenly they’ve become gay.

    Omar said “There’s not really any news here. Wayne and TWO are disingnuous liars.”

    Omar, you claim they lied but give no examples. There’s a reason for that, you don’t have an examples.

    Omar said “People can change. Let them.”.

    False! Every major mental and medical health organization has studied this and concluded people cannot change orientation. People who positively accept their gayness are happier and better adjusted than those who do not. Conning people into believing they can and into attempting a lifelong effort to change harms their mental health and often leads to suicide.

    Kay said “A sin is a sin and it is against God’s law to be homosexual no matter what the excuse is. Either you are for God, or you are against Him. It is your choice.”.

    You’re under the mistaken impression that a “sin” is always a wrongdoing – that’s not the case. What causes harm is a wrongdoing, classifying gayness as a “sin” is an arbitrary choice that has nothing to do with wrondoings. I stand against people claiming imaginary beings don’t want people to be gay – I stand against you Kay.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 13, 2011 @ 1:22 pm

  243. Kay:

    “I will call no being good, who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet to my fellow-creatures, and if such a being can sentence me to hell for not so calling him, then to hell I will go.” – John Stuart Mill

    If there really is a supernatural being who holds the hateful attitude towards gays that you are implying, then that being is not good, and it would be wrong to worship him/her.”

    Comment by William — July 13, 2011 @ 1:58 pm

  244. [...] claiming his clinic does not engage in ex-gay therapy and then having that totally disproved by undercover reporting. We started what felt important and the conversation came to [...]

    Pingback by The Conversation Came To Us (or, The Inspirational Value of Franklin Feeze) | Savage Umbrella Theater — July 13, 2011 @ 2:23 pm

  245. Priya said, “As a bisexual who has gone from women to men to women and back to a man I can tell you that sexual orientation does not change, just that bisexuals give you the false impression that it does.”

    Very well said.

    And just to add something: While my perceptions may be skewed because I’m gayer than gay, I’ve always assumed there are far fewer true bisexuals than would claim to be. I’ve assumed that bisexuality is often a comfortable transitional identity for those on a path toward accepting one’s homosexuality. But maybe there are many bisexuals whose hetero side predominates, and thus feel no great compulsion to indulge the homo side of their sexuality – so we wouldn’t know they exist.

    None of this would matter much if our society of busybodies just stopped meddling in aspects of other people’s lives that have no impact on their own. Here’s an idea: reparative therapy for busybodies.

    Comment by Richard Rush — July 13, 2011 @ 2:30 pm

  246. I agree Richard, some gay men claim bisexuality as they become comfortable with their gayness and bisexuals who are more opposite sex attracted than same sex attracted (or even equally attracted) probably choose to be in opposite sex relationships due to social pressure. Those who are more same sex attracted than opposite sex attracted may initially get involved in opposite sex marriages and after many years decide they would really prefer to be in a same sex relationship.

    Although I am now in a permanent monogamous relationship with a man I remain more physically attracted to women than to men.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 13, 2011 @ 2:43 pm

  247. Richard in #245:

    After I came out to my foster parents 30 odd years ago– they were the very last people i told– my foster father told me he had always considered himself to be bisexual…this from a man born in 1915. But it was unclear if he had ever acted on it. Yet yere he was: hetero to the world and his church and his family, but bi to me and to himself.

    My mostly gay brother and hi,slightly gay twin… hetero to thr world. My own father I had more thn a few suspicions.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Comment by Ben in Oakland — July 13, 2011 @ 3:29 pm

  248. TWO is deleting my comments but I’ll try again.

    Bachmann does not deny that he counsels unwanted SSA so there really isn’t any news here.

    Bachmann’s “barbarians” quote referred to adolescents, not gays.

    People can change. Let them.

    Comment by elsa — July 13, 2011 @ 4:19 pm

  249. Wrong, wrong, wrong Elsa/evil Becky/Omar.

    Bachman denied several years ago that he counseled gay people to “convert”.

    Bachman’s barbarians quote referred to gay teenagers.

    Every major mental and medical health organization has studied this and concluded people cannot change orientation. People who positively accept their gayness are happier and better adjusted than those who do not. Conning people into believing they can and into attempting a lifelong effort to change harms their mental health and often leads to suicide.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 13, 2011 @ 5:56 pm

  250. “Bachman denied several years ago that he counseled gay people to “convert”.”

    Cite a reference.

    “Bachman’s barbarians quote referred to gay teenagers.”

    Nope. He was clearly referring to adolescents in a general sense. You’re just too blind to see that.

    People can change. Let them.

    Comment by elsa — July 13, 2011 @ 6:09 pm

  251. For whose good, YOURS and people like yours who want to tell them how to live? NO!

    Comment by Cody — July 13, 2011 @ 6:12 pm

  252. Becky, I have a bug on my computer and cannot do most searches or I would post a link for you. However one (or more) of the televisions segmants documented Bachman making this denial. Go through it and you will find your proof.

    Bachman was asked specifically about a gay teenager and responded that barbarians need to be educated – there is no room for discussion, there is no other interpretation possible, you’re just sticking to your lie. No way would someone like Bachman ever say all teenagers are barbarians.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 13, 2011 @ 6:21 pm

  253. Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “People can change. Let them.

    False! Every major mental and medical health organization has studied this and concluded people cannot change orientation. People who positively accept their gayness are happier and better adjusted than those who do not. Conning people into believing they can and into attempting a lifelong effort to change harms their mental health and often leads to suicide.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 13, 2011 @ 6:23 pm

  254. Elsa…

    People may be able to change. I certainly believe so, and in a world where carpenters can be resurrected, anything is possible.

    But there is no evidence that you can pray away the gay. and since we are talking about curing people, then we need to see some cures.

    There is no evidence that reparative therapy works either, not the least because there is no evidence that reparative therapy has any basis in reality.

    The one bit of research that purported to study the issue– Jones and Yarhouse– tried to conclude that change is possible, but only if by change you mean– and I quote– difficult, ambuiguous, complicated change. Or in ordinary language, no change at all.

    The ex-gays industry claims they have cured legions of people, but these legions of people never seem to make an appearance. J&Y, plugged in as they are to the ex-gay industry, were only able to find 100 people for their study.

    100 does not a legion make.

    And only 13% of that hundred experienced change– complicated, difficult, ambiguous change.

    So, you and i are in agreement.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 13, 2011 @ 7:16 pm

  255. Becky here is the proof. First the quote then a link to the story. Marcus Bachmann, who is also 50, denies that is part of his clinic’s practice. “That’s a false statement,” he says, refusing to answer any questions that don’t have to do with Bachmann and Associates. “Am I aware that the perception is out there? I can’t comment on that.” Still, Bachmann offers, “If someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that. But if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don’t have a problem with that.” http://www.citypages.com/content/printVersion/17190/

    Comment by Tim W — July 13, 2011 @ 8:06 pm

  256. As I said, i keep hearing about thousands having left the gay life. But where are they? And why do people like alan chambers say they are just as gay as they ever were, but acting straight?

    I think at one point Alan chambers claimed 100′s of thousands.

    So, I repeat, where are the thousands? I’ll settle for thousands.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 13, 2011 @ 8:07 pm

  257. Elsa,
    Just posted proof on Bachmann so you are a liar. As for the 1000s how come none of the ex-gay groups can show any concrete proof of this. Show us your proof of 1000s changed. We’ll wait because IT DOESN’T EXIST.

    Comment by Tim W — July 13, 2011 @ 8:08 pm

  258. Because Elsa it is people like you that are liars. The burden of proof is on you if you claim there are 1000s and would need to be confirmed with rigorous scientific proof. But we know you have none of that. It’s funny how Xtians like to break one of the commandments so easily.

    Comment by Tim W — July 13, 2011 @ 8:37 pm

  259. [...] change his sexual orientation through therapy and prayer. The revelations are the result of an undercover report conducted by John Becker of Truth Wins Out, an organization dedicated to combating discredited [...]

    Pingback by NewsLinks | Intrepid Report.com — July 14, 2011 @ 12:11 am

  260. [...] Wins Out's expose showing that Bachmann & Associates, a company owned by the Bachmanns, indeed offers ex-gay “therapy.” (Do follow that link, [...]

    Pingback by Michele Bachmann, This Gay Man Thanks You | Asterisk — July 14, 2011 @ 2:09 am

  261. Elsa, Becky, whomever….

    I’m in the mood to write a little bit. So, here you go. I’m going to assume that you are an intellectually honest person and willing to learn something, and not either the shill for the anti-ex-gay industry that your postings would indicate you to be, or the garden variety bigot with a little education and an axe or two to grind. We’ve seen both.

    You have made the statement that people can change, and they should be allowed to. You have made the statement: “Ben, 1000s of people have left the gay life and are leading a satisfied non-gay life. Thousands of people, through I assume some sort of ex-gay therapy and/or prayer. Is this a fair statement of your truth? I am quoting you.

    Here we come to the first problem. Where are these thousands of people? I have heard people like you say this many times, but they never answer. Why is it that Jones and Yarhouse, certainly plugged into the evangelical and anti-ex-gay worlds as they are, could only find 100 people to participate in their groundbreaking study? Where outside of the anti-ex-gay imagination are these thousands of people? I can assure you if they were available, Exodus would be parading them down Broadway every Sunday. But the only people who seem to show up are earning their livings off of being exgay. The same 50 faces do not a parade make.

    You say that people can change, and that thousands are leading a satisfied non-gay life. These are not even close to being the same thing, now, are they? It is less than ingenuous to say that they are, or to confuse the two.

    If change means only that they are not living a gay life, why then, you really don’t need either prayer or therapy for that. You just cut off all your gay friends, don’t go to gay events, don’t read gay books or see gay movies. Don’t have gay sex. Piece of cake. If you can’t manage that, than you have other problems that are far more serious. But if they still want love-sex-romance with someone of the same gender, even if they are not having it, these people are still gay. Changing behavior does not change sexual orientation, though it might be satisfying.

    So, let us kick it up a notch. Suppose you are someone who desperately wants to change from homosexual to heterosexual. I know of no gay person who has to try to be gay, nor do I know of any straight person who has to try to be straight. So, you may act straight, pretend to be straight, and appear to the world that you are straight because you are trying so goddamned hard to be straight, or at least believe that you are. Straight with issues is the haggard dodge. But if your attractions are still down on their knees in the mensroom at the KwikeeMart, you are not straight. You may still not be having sex, but you haven’t changed from homosexual to heterosexual, you have merely changed from functioning homo to non-functioning homo. If you are really honest, you might admit that you are functioning heterosexually, but it’s a struggle every day. So how straight is that?

    So let us kick it up another notch. You are not trying to be straight, you ARE straight—George Rekers style. You have actually cured people of their sexual problems, through prayer and reparative therapy. You testify in court, if by testify you mean lying, and not the ancient meaning of testify, which is to swear an oath to your liege lord by holding his testicles in your hot little hand. That, I’m pretty sure, George was willing to do.

    You may marry a woman, Ted Haggard style—now there is a man that knows how to pray, and has the whole of the evangelical and exgay world at his beck and call. Yet, despite all his prayer, his resources, and his multiple declarations that he was cured and, I quote, 100% heterosexual, he still isn’t, and he admits it.

    You may condemn homosexuality in the darkest of terms, with Jesus at your side sternly wagging his finger—Eddie Long style, Lonnie Latham style, Catholic priest style, too many dreary pray-to-Jesus others in their own particular styles.

    And every one of these jokers was as straight as straight could be, and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, thank Jesus for the straightness of their righteousness, until they were caught in a mensroom, or diddling the choir boy, or cruising for prostitutes, or sin and degradation after distressingly dreary, and not particularly imaginative, degradation.

    So this is the problem with prayer and reparative therapy—they don’t actually seem to work at least so far as we have examined them. So let us look at the last group of people, the ones that are invisible but you nevertheless insist exist by the thousands. (By the way, I do not claim that change isn’t possible. In a world where carpenters can be resurrected, anything is possible. But they seem to be available by special order on certain days. One cannot find them wholesale).

    Jones and Yarhouse have already studied these people, and found that change occurred for only 13% of their 100 subjects, and that it was difficult, ambiguous, and complicated. But I’m going to propose a super study. It will be open to anyone who has taken any formal action or program to pray or therapay away the gay in any way, to change from gay to straight, by means of some faith-based program.

    The study will be simple, and consist of three questions and a simple lab test.

    1) Were you or are you homosexual in thought, word, and deed? (Gotta have a baseline, and I want to see those thousands).

    2) By means of the program you joined, were you, or are you now, able to change yourself from homosexual to completely heterosexual, no backsliding, no gay thoughts, words, or deeds, only heterosexual ones? (Because if any of those things are happening, you haven’t changed. Wanting to change, trying to change, thinking about changing—those things are not changing.)

    3) For those who have changed from homosexual to heterosexual, one last question. “Are you willing swear on peril of losing your immortal soul, by your faith in Jesus Christ, by all that you hold holy and true, that you no longer have any homosexual desire, that you are completely heterosexual in thought, word, and deed. Because if any of those things are happening…

    4) And finally, because I’m a cynic, for those who are able to swear, at least for the men, one of those weenie-excitement-thingamajigs just to double check, at least the men. I don’t now what you do for women.

    When I see that study done, then I will believe change is possible.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 14, 2011 @ 3:06 am

  262. I’ll believe change is possible, at least by prayer and reparative therapy. Sorry.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 14, 2011 @ 3:09 am

  263. BTW, Ben, ya use a penile strain gauge for the men and a photoplethysmograph for the women (which uses light to measure lubrication, just for the record) ^_^

    Comment by Cody — July 14, 2011 @ 3:18 am

  264. Might as well say that serial killers can’t stop killing… a sin is a sin, and all of you are sinners.

    Comment by me — July 14, 2011 @ 11:59 am

  265. @ #267. You’re confusing a sin with a wrongdoing – they are often not the same thing. A wrongdoing is something that harms someone, your “sin” in this case is an arbitrary random label that has nothing to do with right or wrong.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

  266. Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “Priya, barbarians just means “unrefined” in the context. It’s quite clear that Bachmann was stating that all kids need education and discipline.”.

    He was asked about a gay teenager, he responded “Barbarians need to be educated”. There is no room for debate, he said gay teenagers are barbarians.

    Elsa/evil Becky/Omar said “Here’s another way to think about it: are you asserting that kids do not need discipline and education?”.

    No, but what you are saying is akin to a person saying “Ford cars need gasoline” and then you saying “He wasn’t saying Ford cars are crappy, he was saying all cars need gasoline, are you asserting that cars do not need gasoline?”.

    Elsa/evil Becky/Omar said “Any way you look at it, you are wrong.”

    Right – in delusion/dishonesty world.

    Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “Also, you are going to have a hard time finding any Bachmann denials that his clinic treats unwanted SSA. Immediately after saying “that’s a false statement”, he confirms that his clinic counsels unwanted SSA.”.

    He was asked about the statment that his clinic offers “reparitive” therapy (gay to straight) and he replied “That is a false statment”. His subsequent statment didn’t even mention unwanted same sex attractions let alone say he counseled gays to be come heterosexual – you’re a liar.

    Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “People can change. Let them.”

    False! Every major mental and medical health organization has studied this and concluded efforts to change orientation are ineffective. People who positively accept their gayness are happier and better adjusted than those who do not. Conning people into believing they can and into attempting a lifelong effort to change harms their mental health and often leads to suicide.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 12:39 pm

  267. Elsa/evil becky/omar said “Tim W, we don’t know what “statement” Bachmann is responding. We can guess that it probably mis-represented the Bachmann clinic’s activity.”.

    False! The statement is given “Bachman’s clinic offers “reparitive” therapy (gay to straight). Bachman responds “That is a false statement.” – crystal clear to anyone with more than one brain cell.

    Elsa/evil Becky/Omatr said “But no problem since Bachmann actually states what they do: “If someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that. But if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don’t have a problem with that.”

    The “but” is unnecessary but clarifies that the first clause opposes the second. The obvious meaning being that Bachmann is affirming that his clinic counsels patients with unwanted SSA.”.

    Bachman doesn’t mention unwanted same sex attraction at all and nor does he say his clinic tries to change people from gay to straight – he said such a statment is a false statement – he clearly and unambiguously said his clinic does not try to change gays into heterosexuals.

    Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “Ben, they are out there. I’m not sure why they all have to come forward and be demonized by TWO, et al. Just leave them be.”.

    Oh, the ones claiming to have changed and that that means gays should be denied equal rights are out there all right. They’re loud and insistent but none of them will actually agree to be tested to see if their claims are true – I wonder why. Bigots trying to use false claims of change to deny a minority equal rights must be opposed every step of the way.

    Elsa/Evil Becky/Omar said “Why can’t all you people just let people pursue their own desires? Why the crusade to demean and belittle them? Shameful.”.

    The demeaning and belittling is all on your part. You’re the ones claiming gays are evil, mentally ill, disease ridden, and out to destroy society. We’re thrilled to death if people pursue their own harmless desires, it is YOU, assholes like YOU who try to con them into oppressing their same sex desires for love, romance, passion, and companionship. YOU are the evil one Elsa/Becky/Omar, YOU!

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 12:50 pm

  268. Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “And don’t give me any of the “harmful” BS. Any therapeutic treatment has risks. Walking across the street has risks.”.

    The difference being there are thousands of valid reasons for crossing the street and for reputable therapeutic treatments but there are no valid reasons for anyone to attempt to change their orientation. One should never take risks for no reason.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 12:55 pm

  269. And I should add the risks from “reparitive” “therapy” are extreme with as many as 30% of clients committing suicide. No ethical person would consider that level of risk acceptable for no possible gain.

    http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2011/07/17561/#comments

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 12:58 pm

  270. I thought my proposal was pretty good, and would solve the questions once and for all.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 14, 2011 @ 1:09 pm

  271. Elsa, homosexuality is mentioned a few times in the Bible–but lying is mentioned quite ofter–it’s even in the top 10 rules so you should really be careful.

    I don’t care about your book because it’s just the writings of an ancient desert culture with a limited understanding of the world so they created a God to explain everything–but since you do believe it you should realize that there’s more about lying and judging others in it than there is about homosexuality.

    Comment by The Real Becky — July 14, 2011 @ 1:14 pm

  272. elsa, I know when you’ve told so many lies and lied under so many names it’s hard to keep track. But if you’re going to say something is “utterly and wholly false” I’d like to see some sort of backup other than the word of a liar with multiple personalities.

    Comment by The Real Becky — July 14, 2011 @ 2:31 pm

  273. And I would like a response. I stayed up till midnight last night.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 14, 2011 @ 2:39 pm

  274. Elsa/evil Becky/omar said “Utterly and wholly false.”.

    You’re pathetic. I presented the truth and you think through some miracle people are going to believe you and not me. Go back in your closet and resume sticking pins in dolls of gay people.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 2:41 pm

  275. Ben said “Jones and Yarhouse have already studied these people, and found that change occurred for only 13% of their 100 subjects, and that it was difficult, ambiguous, and complicate”.

    And at least one of those people came forth later and admitted he’d lied about changing.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 14, 2011 @ 2:45 pm

  276. And the recanting shows just how ambiguous change was. i was aware, it just didn’t seem relevant.

    Still waiting, Becks.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 14, 2011 @ 3:18 pm

  277. And there’s no “Christian Agenda,” elsa? You REALLY expect us to believe that?

    Also, just because a few people have “changed to their satisfaction,” it doesn’t, for one millisecond, give them carte blanche to make sweeping social statements based upon an unprovable worldview!

    Comment by Cody — July 14, 2011 @ 5:42 pm

  278. The Bachmann & Associates website from a few years ago openly addressed their “pray away the gay” services. I had the impression it was a primary mission of the clinic from that web site. The web site was scrubbed of those references when Michele Bachmann was running for the House of Representatives. I wish I’d have saved a copy of the site before they sanitized it.

    Comment by Ann — July 15, 2011 @ 10:35 am

  279. [...] today’s Minneapolis Star Tribune, Marcus Bachmann finally commented on TWO’s undercover investigation that revealed his clinic practices dangerous “reparative therapy.” Rather than taking [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - John Becker Responds to Marcus Bachmann’s Stonewalling — July 15, 2011 @ 11:15 am

  280. [...] claiming his clinic does not engage in ex-gay therapy and then having that totally disproved by undercover reporting. We started what felt important and the conversation came to [...]

    Pingback by Savage Umbrella- EX-GAYS | Cake In 15 — July 15, 2011 @ 12:34 pm

  281. As a licensed clincial social worker with 30 yrs. clinical experience all I have to say is that Bachnmann deserves to be called up by whatever board licenses him individually and as a mental health clinic on ethics violations. This disgraceful individual needs to surrender all of his licenses and certificates to practice independently before he causes emotional damage to anyone else. It is incompetent homophobic folks like him and his staff that always gives Hollywood fodder to depict us as crazies in their media. When the Minnesota Board of Mental Health comes back online, I’ll be in line to make a complaint to them.

    Comment by Catherine — July 15, 2011 @ 11:37 pm

  282. [...] undercover expose on Michelle and Marcus Bachmann’s “ex-gay” clinic that I mentioned last week, jumped from the gay blogoshpere to the mainstream media this week. [...]

    Pingback by Queer Corner Quickie: #24: Bachmann drama, Daniel Tosh, Newsweek fail, Big Brother 13, DOMA, Michael Irvin « Queer Corner — July 16, 2011 @ 1:46 am

  283. Catherine, Marcus Bachmann is not individually licensed. His PhD is from an unaccredited online program.

    Comment by Ann — July 16, 2011 @ 2:21 pm

  284. [...] her own lesbian family member’s sexuality to be “part of Satan.”  Her husband runs a clinic without a license where he offers reparative therapy practices to any clients already abused enough [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - For Their Latest Stunt, GOProud Is Cozying Up to Michele Bachmann — July 18, 2011 @ 3:11 pm

  285. [...] candidate Michele Bachmann, has received significant media attention after Truth Wins Out posted a report earlier this month revealing the clinic engages in reparative [...]

    Pingback by Carney dodges on Obama’s position on ‘ex-gay’ therapy | Gay News from Gay Agenda - GayAgenda.com — July 18, 2011 @ 5:14 pm

  286. [...] Jay Carney was asked about the President’s position on it in light of a report that Medicare funding going to Michelle Bachmann’s husband’s treatment center, Carney responded,“I haven’t had any conversation with him and I think that I would steer you [...]

    Pingback by White House dodges “pray the gay away” therapy question | PochoBlog — July 18, 2011 @ 8:50 pm

  287. [...] a pair?” Mariah Blake at The Nation details an inside investigation, led by John Becker at Truth Wins Out, of Bachmann’s homosexuality-purging therapy. Michelle Goldberg at the Daily Beast has [...]

    Pingback by Is Marcus Bachmann gay? Dan Savage and Jon Stewart think gaydar answers the … « Heptanews * Entertainment * Politics * Opinions * U.S. * Technology * Health * Leisure * World * Sports — July 19, 2011 @ 4:48 am

  288. [...] [1] Bachmann’s husband got $137,000 in Medicaid funds – http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43570552/ns/politics-decision_2012/t/bachmanns-husband-got-medicaid-funds [2] I Received ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy at Marcus Bachmann’s Clinic – http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/07/17519/ [...]

    Pingback by Funny, even though the thought of it is kind of gross « jefferly.com — July 21, 2011 @ 1:03 pm

  289. Dear Mr. Becker,

    Thank you for putting yourself through that experience. It couldn’t have been an easy thing, but it’s so very important to show the truth of what these disgusting practices are doing to vulnerable people. And kudos to your husband as well for supporting you through this. I hope we’ll eventually get to see the audio/video you got…let them try to refute that!

    Comment by Violet Farraday — July 22, 2011 @ 11:24 am

  290. [...] reporter with a hidden camera, who claimed to be seeking such therapy, and received it.  Oops!  http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/07/17519/  So, clearly, he knows that what he’s doing is unethical, or at least very likely to be [...]

    Pingback by If You’re Offended by Me Thinking the Bachmanns are Doofuses, Don’t Read This « Apple a Day — July 22, 2011 @ 11:51 am

  291. What’s the point outside of more Bachmann bashing from the cry babies on the far left who wouldn’t vote for her anyway? The way I see it.. she scares the hell out of the far left kooks and they go running off the porch like a pack of little yapping dogs.. so she must beg something right.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 12:36 pm

  292. Schmitty the only hope the Rethuglicans have is to nominate Romney. A Bachmann nomination would thrill me to death. Bachmann/Palin 2012!

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 12:42 pm

  293. Priya..

    The latest Gallop poll of REGISTERED voters has the “GENERIC” (meaning anyone) Republican candidate defeating Obama. That might have something to do with another fact.. 66% feel the country is headed in the wrong direction under Obama. Sorry about your luck but Obama is ONE and DONE! More proof.. he traveled around the country last October and November prior to the election in an effort to save Democrats, the country responded by electing Republicans in historical numbers, even in long standing Democrat strongholds. Those same people (like me) feel that November of 2012 can’t get here soon enough. What can Obama possibly campaign on?

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 12:57 pm

  294. LOL, sure it does Schmitty, you keep telling yourself that.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 1:07 pm

  295. Priya..

    Don’t let facts get in the way.. LOL

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/148487/Republican-Candidate-Extends-Lead-Obama.aspx

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 1:19 pm

  296. LOL Schimtty you just keep telling yourself that, ignore the other polls that show Obama ahead:

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/July_Poll.pdf

    Not to mention that in most polls the “generic” republican candidate does better than any actual republican candidate. Too bad “generic” republican isn’t running. And Bachmann as I told you Bachmann does poorly compared to Romney – the rethuglicans only hope. Bachmann/Palin 2012!

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 1:37 pm

  297. Priya.. the difference “Interviews: 1000 adults, including 200 reached by cell phone.”

    Not REGISTERED VOTERS. Gallop is one of only a few that polls actual registered voters.. MSNBC never does, and how do they even know who they’re talking to? Could be an illegal for all they know.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 1:50 pm

  298. Priya..

    You have your dream and I have mine.. time will tell who’s comes true. Very beautiful name you have.

    Ta Ta

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 1:57 pm

  299. LOL, Schmitty, you just keep telling yourself the “generic” republican candidate (who isn’t running) is ahead. This is the same thing you did in 2008, take one poll outlier and claim that was proof that Mccain was going to win – look how that turned out for you.

    In fact the majority of polls in the last several months show Obama ahead of the “generic” republican and MUCH further ahead of any Republican actually running.

    http://news.yahoo.com/poll-carries-warning-signs-obama-2012-213717802.html

    “”There’s a very good chance Barack Obama would lose if he had to stand for re-election today,” said Dean Debnam, president of Public Policy Polling. “This is his worst poll standing in a long time and he really needs the economy to start turning around.”

    The pollsters said if there is a silver lining for Obama it is that he trailed Romney in the same poll last July and then regained the lead for each of the next 11 months.

    Most political analysts believe Obama will be in a strong position for re-election given the relatively weak Republican field, a huge financial advantage in campaign contributions and the potential for an economic recovery.

    An NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll released this week found that Obama led Romney 48 percent to 41 percent”.

    Good luck in 2012, all your blustering about the Rethuglican’s winning is going to turn out the same way your blustering in 2008 turned out.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 1:58 pm

  300. Bachmann/Palin 2012!

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 1:59 pm

  301. Priya, Priya, Pryia

    In 2008 all polls using registered voters had Obama ahead so I’m not sure where you’re coming from saying “I” did the same thing in 2008. Nobody knew who Obama was then, all they heard was flowery speeches singing about Hope and Change. It worked then but now everyone is aware of what Obama is all about and the majority doesn’t like what they know now. Like I said.. what can he possibly campaign on now.. the economy? the housing market? the unemployment rate? the $14.4 trillion dollar deficit? operating without a budget for over two years now? If fact he’s been so horrible he’s relegated himself to only being able to campaign behind closed doors at prearranged places with prearranged CAPTIVE audiences like colleges, universities (young easily led minds) community groups and union shops. If he tried to campaign out in the open like he was able to in 2008.. today he’d get booed off the stage. The “generic” Republican is a reference to the Republican that wins the GOP nomination. None of them are running against Obama right now, they are all running against each other for a chance to win the nomination to then run against Obama.. thats how it works, get it? I’m not a fan of wishy washy Romney but if Perry enters.. which I hope he does, I believe he’d win the nomination and his wife is pushing him now to enter.

    Thanks for the hardy laugh though.. a chance for economic recovery under Obama.. LOL, all signs point to it.. right

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 2:37 pm

  302. LOL, Schmitty, that’s not what you were saying in 2008. After Obama wins you’ll be claiming all 2012 polls using registered voters had Obama ahead.

    You just keep telling yourself the generic rethuglican candidate is ahead, you’re only hope is Romney and I’d be thrilled to see your hero Bachmann as the nominee.

    Bachmann/Palin 2012!

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 22, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

  303. Priya..

    It’s become rather obvious based on your comments that a half-wit gave you a piece of their mind, and you held on to it.

    Ta Ta

    Comment by Schmitty — July 22, 2011 @ 2:56 pm

  304. [...] uncharacteristically quiet about her anti-gay views and her husband’s clinic. But just last week, an undercover investigation confirmed that the Bachmann’s clinic is, to this very day, providing discredited ‘ex-gay [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann’s anti-gay clinic mocked and glittered by costumed ‘gay barbarians’ « Red Ant Liberation Army News — July 22, 2011 @ 3:09 pm

  305. Thank you for taking the risk to undercover this clinic. Who do I contact about their inethical practices and taking money from to government to promote hate? What can I do? These people are dangerous, reminds me of reading how Hitler came to power. Be scared be very scared.

    Comment by Agnes — July 23, 2011 @ 8:18 am

  306. Scared..?

    Here’s something thats scary..

    Mom of Murdered Obama Gay Lover Speaks Up

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/mom-of-murdered-obama-gay-lover-speaks-up/

    Comment by Schmitty — July 23, 2011 @ 10:58 am

  307. Ex-Gay Myth?

    Don’t tell that to the east coast GUGS and LUGS. In case you’re not aware of them you can google this..

    Gay Until Graduation.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 23, 2011 @ 11:02 am

  308. Schmitty, two things:

    1)Impressive level of crazy with the Obama conspiracy.

    2) You’re confusing bisesxuals with the imaginary “exgay”.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 23, 2011 @ 1:11 pm

  309. Priya..

    You just keep telling yourself that..LOL

    Comment by Schmitty — July 23, 2011 @ 1:18 pm

  310. Schmitty, you find us some of these so called “exgays” willing to submit to a penile plethysmograph or no lie MRI and we’ll see just how “changed” they are. Good luck, there’s never been one person claiming to have changed orientation willing to submit to an actual test of the claim.

    And tell us more of your conspiracy theories about Obama, its quite entertaining to watch a psychotic mind in action.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 23, 2011 @ 2:15 pm

  311. I would settle for an oath on the Sacred Blood of Jesus and in peril of their immortal souls.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 23, 2011 @ 7:17 pm

  312. Priya..

    Beside the fact it’s $5000 a pop..

    Researchers’ doubts notwithstanding, Cephos is working hard to introduce fMRI lie detection to the American legal system. The company’s most recent effort involves a Tennessee psychologist who was accused of submitting false insurance claims. His attorneys tried to offer as evidence tests that Cephos performed in an attempt to show that he genuinely had no intent to commit fraud. Awkwardly for the defense, it came out during the trial that one scan Cephos had made of the psychologist indicated that he was lying. The company later repeated that same test, and the new results showed him to be telling the truth. Prosecutors, reasonably enough, objected to the do-over, and this past June the Tennessee court declared the fMRI results to be inadmissible, mostly because the method hasn’t received any scientific real-world testing.

    Hank Greely, director of the Center for Law and Bioscience at Stanford Law School, is doing his best to stop those cracks from spreading. “Judges, jurors, all of us, we’ve got this longing for a magic tool that will tell us whether someone is lying or telling the truth,” he says. “But we have to be very cautious about thinking it’s here because we want it to be here. I haven’t seen anything today that leads me to believe fMRI is better than polygraphs. If we start using a bad technology, people’s lives are going to be hurt—not just innocent people who are falsely convicted but guilty people who are falsely exonerated and go on to ruin the lives of other people.”

    A penile plethysmograph test is used for the most part on sexual predators.

    And.. who are the people you claim were unwilling to submit to testing? Can you back up your claim?

    Last but not least.. Judging by the old saying, “What you don’t know can’t hurt you,” you’re practically invulnerable.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 24, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  313. Schmitty, you can obviously use the google. So why don’t you find some of these ex-gay success stories you claim exist. There’s a reason these “ex-gay” groups don’t want anyone to do a real study on them–because they don’t work.

    Comment by Daniel — July 24, 2011 @ 2:34 pm

  314. Daniel..

    “There’s a reason these “ex-gay” groups don’t want anyone to do a real study on them–because they don’t work.”

    Is that an admittance?

    I’m sure you can use google too Daniel, don’t let their stories offend you. I’m making no attempt to change you or anyone but there are plenty of Gay’s and bisexuals who for whatever reason made a personal decision to. To deny it’s happened would be akin to sticking ones head in the sand.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 24, 2011 @ 3:05 pm

  315. Schmitty said “Beside the fact it’s $5000 a pop..”.

    If I remember correctly Wayne offered to pay for it for some high profile bigots claiming to be “exgay”, but none were willing.

    Schmitty said “A penile plethysmograph test is used for the most part on sexual predators.”.

    Irrelevant. It’ll work just fine on those claiming to be “exgay” and in fact has been used many times in sexual psychological research.

    Schmitty said “And.. who are the people you claim were unwilling to submit to testing? Can you back up your claim?”.

    Start with the people Spitzer interviewed for his study. When asked why he didn’t back up the claims of change with plethysmograph he said “Oh, they’d never go for that.” Besides, the onus is on you who is making the claim of change, not me to disprove your wild fantasies. There are many, many people adamantly claiming they’ve changed, if that was true you’d have no problem finding many willing to prove it with testing. The fact that NO ONE has
    EVER been willing is pretty solid proof it never happens.

    Scmitty said “I’m making no attempt to change you or anyone but there are plenty of Gay’s and bisexuals who for whatever reason made a personal decision to. To deny it’s happened would be akin to sticking ones head in the sand.”.

    Once again, you’ve got nothing to back up your claim and the onus is on the person making it to prove it, not the skeptic to disprove it. There’s been many studies on so called “change’ and none have ever demonstrated any successful orientation changes. To say it has happened is akin to me saying I have an invisible unicorn in my backyard and you can’t prove its not there.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 24, 2011 @ 3:17 pm

  316. Schmitty–as opposed to you, I have actual experience with these groups. I have been through them and luckily came out the other end able to function–I knew many people who didn’t. You are either ignorant or lying–either way what you’re doing should be criminal.

    Comment by Daniel — July 24, 2011 @ 3:22 pm

  317. “Good luck, there’s never been one person claiming to have changed orientation willing to submit to an actual test of the claim.”

    “If I remember correctly Wayne offered to pay for it for some high profile bigots claiming to be “exgay”, but none were willing.”

    “the onus is on the person making it to prove it, not the skeptic to disprove it.”

    I’ll start here, but theres more: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=I+used+to+be+gay

    Can you take your advise too? We’ll see.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 24, 2011 @ 3:26 pm

  318. Daniel..

    “You are either ignorant or lying–either way what you’re doing should be criminal.”

    I’m neither ignorant or lying. And what I’m doing is exercising the same thing our freedoms allow us both to do.. but for me it should be criminal? That’s some warped, one sided, highly intolerant thinking going on in your head Daniel.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 24, 2011 @ 3:44 pm

  319. Schmitty,

    “I’m making no attempt to change you or anyone but there are plenty of Gay’s [sic] and bisexuals who for whatever reason made a personal decision to.”

    Yes, I don’t doubt that there are, but, no matter what they made a personal decision to do, did they succeed in actually doing it? The evidence indicates that they seldom or never succeed.

    Comment by William — July 24, 2011 @ 6:52 pm

  320. Schmitty, I am intolerant of people making claims about these treatments that don’t work. And you know what? I’m okay with that. I think being intolerant of fraud is actually a good thing. I think being intolerant of lies is a good thing. I think being intolerant of bigotry is a good thing. And my intolerance isn’t based on ignorance as yours is–my intolerance is based on actual experience. So, I’m not prejudiced–I’m not pre-judging, I’m judging.

    Comment by Daniel — July 24, 2011 @ 7:19 pm

  321. I doesn’t make any sense. If “ex-gay” is a myth doesn’t that make “ex-strait” also a myth. So there is no such thing as “coming out of the closet”

    Comment by Jazmine — July 24, 2011 @ 11:41 pm

  322. William..

    What evidence? Please explain, and show where it comes from.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 25, 2011 @ 12:18 am

  323. Jazmine,

    People who come out of the close call themselves “gay” not “ex-straight.”

    Comment by Jack — July 25, 2011 @ 12:22 am

  324. Daniel..

    “And my intolerance isn’t based on ignorance as yours is–my intolerance is based on actual experience. So, I’m not prejudiced–I’m not pre-judging, I’m judging.”

    Your intolerance of other peoples opinions does not make you a “judge” of other peoples opinions and or beliefs.. including your self proclaimed unknown, and unproven experience. But I will “never” refer to them as a criminal action or call you ignorant in yours.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 25, 2011 @ 12:29 am

  325. Jack..

    You might want to ask a famous Motown singer named Little Richard about that.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 25, 2011 @ 12:35 am

  326. Schmitty, my intolerances won’t cause people to kill themselves. Won’t cause people to spend all their money trying to cure something that can’t and doesn’t need to be “cured”. There are actual consequences to your ignorance–and I didn’t call them criminal action, I said they should be. And I believe they should. These people should be put in jail for fraud.

    Comment by Daniel — July 25, 2011 @ 2:04 am

  327. Jazmine, I’ve never heard anyone call themselves “ex-straight”. What makes no sense is your point–because it’s nonsense.

    Comment by Daniel — July 25, 2011 @ 2:05 am

  328. Daniel..

    “There are actual consequences to your ignorance–and I didn’t call them criminal action, I said they should be. And I believe they should. These people should be put in jail for fraud.”

    You sir, are a discredit to Gays and Hetero’s. Your “hate” has overtaken any common sense you might have previously once had. If I were Gay.. I’d distance myself from you..common sense would demand it of me.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 25, 2011 @ 2:20 am

  329. Schmitty,

    “What evidence? Please explain, and show where it comes from.”

    The evidence is to be found in the history of the “ex-gay” movement itself, which is littered with cases of “ex-gay” ministry leaders who held themselves up, or were held up by others, as living proof that gays can change and become straight, but who later either retracted their testimony and admitted that their change of orientation was simply self-deception, or were exposed as saying one thing and doing another. In the former category are Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper, Jim Kaspar, Jeremy Marks, Raphaël Creemers, Jeff Ford, Christine Bakke, Darlene Bogle and Wade Richards; in the latter category are Guy Charles, Colin Cook, Michael Johnston and John Paulk. (The above list is not exhaustive.) All those who renounced “ex-gay” ministry testified not only that they had failed themselves to change – although they had at one time managed to convince themselves and others that they had – but that none of the clients of their ministries had changed either.

    Love In Action (LIA), a residential ex-gay program in Memphis, Tennessee, describes itself as “the oldest established member ministry of Exodus International.” John Smid was the director of LIA for 22 years before his resignation in 2008, and he was on the board of Exodus for 11 of those years. Last year Smid admitted to Michael Bussee (one of the founders of Exodus who later repudiated “ex-gay” ministry as ineffective and often dangerous) that in all those years he NEVER met a homosexual man who had become heterosexual through an Exodus ministry: “Not one.” This was reported by Bussee on Dr Warren Throckmorton’s website.

    Confirmation was provided by Throckmorton, who wrote in June 2011, “Even when [John Smid] was running the in-patient program, he acknowledged that he had not changed to any appreciable degree. In fact, he told me that he had not seen anyone who had.”

    Disbelieving other people’s claims may be unjustified or it may be, as in this case, thoroughly justified. Either way, it is NOT intolerance.

    Comment by William — July 25, 2011 @ 6:18 am

  330. As I vsaid earlier, I would be willing to accept a simple terst. If you have gone through a faith based ex-gay program, and are still religiously involved, and claim that you used to be gay but are now `100% heterosexual in thought, word, and deed, then simply swear an oath to Jesus and your immortal soul that this is the case.

    I’d love to see a few takers.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 25, 2011 @ 10:36 am

  331. As I said earlier, I would be willing to accept a simple test. If you have gone through a faith based ex-gay program, and are still religiously involved, and claim that you used to be gay but are now `100% heterosexual in thought, word, and deed, then simply swear an oath to Jesus and your immortal soul that this is the case.

    I’d love to see a few takers.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 25, 2011 @ 10:37 am

  332. Oh Schmitty, you’ve really got that doubletalk down. You’re just another conservative who, when you’re shown to be wrong, starts whining that you’re a victim. You’re a discredit to snail slime.

    Comment by Daniel — July 25, 2011 @ 11:37 am

  333. Schmitty, you sad piece of slithering humanity. You have the nerve to come on here with your “hetero” judgement on people who actually know what they’re talking about. If you were any more stupid you’d lose the ability to breath. You don’t even have the will of an invertibrate. That you with your judgement completely based on your own biases and/or stupidity have the nerve to speak badly of someone WHO ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH these ridiculous therapies just shows that you have no humanity left in your being. You’re a sad shell of dust animated by hate and stupidity. So try to mess with me you little piece of excrement.

    Comment by Becky — July 25, 2011 @ 11:42 am

  334. [...] also in line with this dangerous social force, not to mention at odds with his wife’s alleged economic ideology, but THIS is the thing people should be drawing attention to and attacking: the Bachmanns’ [...]

    Pingback by The New Gay » Politics: Marcus Bachmann and His Complicated Covert Closet — July 25, 2011 @ 12:01 pm

  335. Jazmine said “I doesn’t make any sense. If “ex-gay” is a myth doesn’t that make “ex-strait” also a myth. So there is no such thing as “coming out of the closet””.

    You’re not really that stupid, are you Jazmine? “Coming out of the closet” refers to being open about rather than hiding one’s gayness, it doesn’t refer to changing from straight to gay.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 25, 2011 @ 12:12 pm

  336. and ex-gay doesn’t mean changing from gay to striaght.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 25, 2011 @ 12:22 pm

  337. YOU ARE GAY, deal with it. God made you that way. I would think if God WERE judging of his own creatures’ sexuality (WHICH MAKES NO SENSE), he would be more insulted that you would try to change yourself from how he made you. If you believe God is loving and beautiful, and creates us, HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT BEING GAY IS WRONG? If you are gay and trying to change it, THEN you need therapy. Not if you are gay and being gay. That requires no therapy at all. I feel like I’m going to throw up not only from all this hatred, but from this LACK OF LOGIC FROM PEOPLE PURPORTING TO BE CHRISTIANS BUT NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CHRISTIAN.

    Comment by Rhonda Billings — July 27, 2011 @ 2:06 am

  338. Becky..

    I’ve come across decomposed bodies that are less offensive than you are.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 27, 2011 @ 3:23 pm

  339. Oh Schmitty–you’re so clever! I would say that you’re the funniest kid in the first grade–but I think you’re actually in your 70s or 80s and you’re watching as the world changes and everyone else is realizing there’s no threat from GLBT people but you just can’t accept that. Your grandchildren taught you how to use a computer and now you sit around all day trolling this and other sites complaining that you can’t be a bigot anymore without being called a bigot. You would really be kind of sad if you weren’t so repellent. There is hope Schmitty–it’s not too late to learn to be a human being. You can change, let yourself.

    Comment by Becky — July 27, 2011 @ 6:34 pm

  340. Becky.. said “I would say that you’re the funniest kid in the first grade–but I think you’re actually in your 70s or 80s and you’re watching as the world changes and everyone else is realizing there’s no threat from GLBT people but you”

    So BECKY..What state have you made your inroads in outside of Massachusetts without the help of liberal judges behind the wishes of the MAJORITY my little genius? In the elections of of 2008 seven states including California had Gay issues on their ballots and ALL seven said NO. So please explain how EVERYONE else is realizing your belief and the fact that 31 states have now passed legislation against Gay marriage. If ANYONE sounds like they are in the first grade.. find a mirror. A Demitasse would fit your head little head like a sombrero. Try and mess with me you little… Ta Ta for now.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 28, 2011 @ 12:14 am

  341. Shmitty, What tate without the help of “liberal” judges–HOW ABOUT NEW YORK? Weren’t you paying attention. Oh Shmitty, times are changing. People under 30 overwhelmingly think gay marriage is either good or a non-issue. People who think like you do are dying out.

    And now, what do you think you’re accomplishing? You’ve launched a lot of infantile insults at people but haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings. You’ve told a lot of lies but haven’t changed anyone’s mind. You’re a failure Shmitty. You’re just a pathetic loser who can’t walk away from his computer when he has the opportunity to troll. But, Shmitty dear, no one here really cares what you have to say because we all know you’re a fraud. You’re just one of the raft of trolls (assuming you’re not all the same person) who docked here after the Marcus Bachmann expose. You’re a fool Shmitty. And what exactly do you think you did that should make me sorry I messed with you? Maybe you can’t change, so maybe we should just let you climb back into your hole and cover it up like the brown recluse spider you think you are. But you’re not Shmitty–you’re just not that dangerous. When you and all your bigoted old people die the world will be a much better place–assuming you haven’t destroyed it.

    Comment by Becky — July 28, 2011 @ 2:01 am

  342. That should have read “Shmitty, what state…” I’m sure you knew that Shmitty, but I don’t want to distract you with a typo.

    Comment by Becky — July 28, 2011 @ 2:03 am

  343. Shitty said “Try and mess with me you little…”.

    Oooo, now I’m scared.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — July 28, 2011 @ 11:36 am

  344. By the way Shmitty, thank you for calling me “little”–all my friends got a good laugh out of that.

    Comment by Becky — July 28, 2011 @ 11:44 am

  345. [...] recent investigation exposed the Minnesota clinic co-owned by Michele and Marcus Bachmann by confirming that it offers morally, spiritually, and scientifically bankrupt “ex-gay therapy.” We [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - GOProud’s Chris Barron Wishes Gays Would Stop Picking on Bachmann — July 28, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  346. From “Big” Becky’s comment #333..”So try to mess with me you little piece of excrement.”

    Get it now Big Becky? Real classy…
    All that you are you owe to your parents, you should send them a penny to square the account.

    Comment by Schmitty — July 28, 2011 @ 8:16 pm

  347. You are a piece of excrement Shmitty. You insulted someone who’s been through this bullshit therapy and you’re too much of a piece of excrement (which I only use because I’m not sure you can use profanities on this site) to realize it. You claim to be classy? You don’t know the first thing about it. And my parents are fine with me. They’d say you’re a piece if pooh as well.

    But now, Shmitty (and you’re really asking for it with that name) what do you have to say to me? What do you think you’re doing on this site with your little insults? BTW–you didn’t really hurt Daniel’s feelings–he thinks you’re a piece of doo-doo as well.

    Comment by Becky — July 29, 2011 @ 1:43 am

  348. Becky, well said. This little piece of shmit doesn’t seem to realize that the people on this site actually know what we’re talking about, unlike him.

    Comment by db — July 29, 2011 @ 1:45 am

  349. While I have not read through all the comments I will say this. I do not believe the Gay Lifestyle is of God, nor do I believe heterosexual sex outside of marriage, being a drunk or any of the hundreds of other vices in the world are of God either. With that said I do agree that Federal money being spent to preach this Gospel is a clear violation of Church and State. I find the hypocrisy of the congresswomen to be sickening and I support your premise that if she want to do this therapy it should be on “her own” dime like many churches do. For her to build her wealth from the very system she spends her career tearing down is laughable.

    Comment by Forest Smith — July 29, 2011 @ 10:39 am

  350. Well thanks, forest. I guess.

    Just remember that You Good Christians (TM) used to pyursue witches with exactly the same certainty that you were expressing God’s will on the subject with which you now pursue gay people.

    And yet it turns out that there are no witches, so god’s will on it is somewhat irrelevant.

    by the way, it isn’t a lifestyle, it’s a life.

    Comment by Ben In Oakland — July 29, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  351. Becky, thanks for your support. I really wasn’t hurt or even offended by Shmitty’s comments. I do think it’s funny how people like Shmitty come on this site hurl around insults but then when someone insults back they start whining. Classic bully behavior.

    Comment by Daniel — July 29, 2011 @ 11:46 am

  352. I’m not sure what Forest was trying to say there. Michelle Bachman’s a hypocrite and Forest Smith is a bigot? That’s what I got.

    Comment by Daniel — July 29, 2011 @ 11:48 am

  353. Looks to me like Wiertzema’s responses were the right responses, aimed at doing what YOU FRAUDULENTLY ordered.

    Comment by Jay — August 2, 2011 @ 10:58 am

  354. Jay, as somone who thinks gays should be oppressed and destroyed of course you think Wiertzema’s responses were the right ones. All the major mental health and medical associations who are actually interested in the well being of people happen to disagree with you though.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — August 2, 2011 @ 11:41 am

  355. Jay, if there’s nothing wrong with what they’re doing at the Bachmann clinic why are they lying about it?

    Comment by Daniel — August 2, 2011 @ 12:38 pm

  356. Job well done. It is important to expose these people and to stop the funding that they are receiving. Additionally, I think that an effort should be made to close down this center. What they are practicing is damaging in so many ways beyond the individual being treated. God willing, Bachmann’s days are numbered.

    Comment by John Joseph — August 3, 2011 @ 12:00 pm

  357. [...] did not take part in the discredited practice of converting heterosexuals into homosexuals.  TWO’s investigation discovered incontrovertible evidence that “ex-gay” therapy did, in fact, occur at Bachmann [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - TWO Special Report: Meet Janet Boynes, The Bachmann Family’s ‘Ex-Gay’ Minister — August 4, 2011 @ 6:12 am

  358. Last I knew, God made Adam & Eve. Sex was made to be for reproducing, not for sick perverted pleasure. 2 women can’t reproduce & 2 men can’t either. Therefore, sexual relations between them are perverted!! Plain and simple.

    Comment by Christina — August 9, 2011 @ 9:36 am

  359. Christina, were you home-schooled?

    Comment by Richard Rush — August 9, 2011 @ 10:18 am

  360. Christina, the story of Adam and Eve is a story about how the human race began. Very few educated people nowadays would regard it as history – unless they belong to far-out fundamentalist sects – but it makes no difference, for present purposes, even if you do, so let us do so for the sake of argument. Naturally it wouldn’t begin with Adam and Steve or with Alice and Eve, since a gay or lesbian relationship would not contribute to populating the world. Even if the first human couple had procreated by some kind of artificial insemination, both a male and a female would have been needed to produce the necessary sperm and ovum. How does it follow from this that ALL subsequent members of the human race should be heterosexual? The answer is that no such conclusion follows.

    I take it, from your citing of a biblical story, that you believe in God. Let us assume that your belief is correct. So why did God create humanity male and female if he intended people to be homosexual? Well, perhaps he wouldn’t have if he had intended EVERYONE to be homosexual, but I’m not aware of any sane person who seriously holds such a bizarre view. If God intended the vast majority of people to be heterosexual and a minority to be homosexual – which is precisely what the situation is, whether you like it or not – what would he do? He would create humanity male and female, which, of course, is just what he has done. No-one has ever explained to me what different configuration of the sexes they would expect to find.

    You say that “sex was made for reproducing.” But if that is its SOLE purpose and meaning, you are de-valuing human sexuality, reducing it to a mere means to an end. You are implying that human sexual love, which has given purpose to billions of people’s lives and has been celebrated since time immemorial in literature, poetry and song, is ultimately of no real value except as a kind of ruse on the part of God (or of nature). If you wish to hold such a bleak view, then you are perfectly free to do so, and no-one can prove you wrong. But most of us place a higher value on human sexuality, finding it far more beautiful and meaningful than that.

    Comment by William — August 9, 2011 @ 11:28 am

  361. Cristina, that’s the last you knew? You really need to catch up on some reading.

    Comment by Daniel — August 9, 2011 @ 11:53 am

  362. Christina, a lot of people think the sole purpose of sex is reproduction. Such people get no joy or pleasure out of it, no feeling of closeness to another. Those people and you see sex as a barren and mechanical function. I feel sorry for people like you.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — August 9, 2011 @ 12:30 pm

  363. [...] such a lifestyle. He practices what he preaches in his Christian counselling business, offering a way out of homosexuality, and formerly in his home with Rep. Michele Bachman with whom he’s fostered, [...]

    Pingback by What’s up with the Bachmanns? | The Progressive Playbook — August 17, 2011 @ 10:54 am

  364. Michelle Bachman and her husband are as dangerous in their practices as the Nazi’s were not long ago in Germany. Not only do they clearly lack in the area of humanity, but there is hard evidence that they do not have the moral character to practice what they preach in reguards to the financial platform this loony tune is running for President on.

    Comment by Sara Durych — August 17, 2011 @ 3:18 pm

  365. [...] something like this: Bachmann is asked about marriage equality or the "reparative therapy" clinics run by her husband that attempt to magically transform gay people into straight, she ignores the question and when [...]

    Pingback by Karl Frisch: Bachmann’s Silence and the Waterloo Murder of a Gay Teen | 318 News — August 24, 2011 @ 10:39 am

  366. [...] this: Bachmann is asked about marriage equality or the “reparative therapy” clinics run by her husband that attempt to magically transform gay people into straight, she ignores the question and when [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann’s Silence and the Waterloo Murder of a Gay Teen « MGN: Miami Gay News — August 24, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  367. [...] like this: Bachmann is asked about marriage equality or the “reparative therapy” clinics run by her husband that attempt to magically transform gay people into straight, she ignores the question and when [...]

    Pingback by Bachmann’s Silence and the Waterloo Murder of a Gay Teen — August 24, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

  368. [...] therapy “at the patient’s discretion.” This statement also contradicts video evidence from an undercover investigation that shows employees of the clinic clearly encouraging the widely-discredited [...]

    Pingback by Barbarian Flashmob Converts Marcus Bachmann in Glitter Baptism at Clinic » Columbus Go Home — August 25, 2011 @ 11:06 am

  369. [...] a “mental health” clinic that takes Medicaid money – possibly to supplement their dangerous “ex-gay reparative therapy” – while the wife of the head “therapist” runs for President on a platform that [...]

    Pingback by sometimes barbarians need to be disciplined… | just an ordinary goddess... — August 26, 2011 @ 4:11 am

  370. Simply Amazing.. How GAYS try and Convince Themselves of their Lifestyle Decision.. Just read the Above… No legs to stand on..

    Comment by Schmitty — August 31, 2011 @ 1:09 am

  371. I wish I could be as brave as you! I can’t believe those frauds are receiving federal funding! Thank you for this article.

    Comment by Sinéad — September 5, 2011 @ 3:23 am

  372. [...] Reporters questioned TWO about rumors that the Bachmanns’ clinic was practicing so-called “ex-gay reparative therapy.”  When Michelle Goldberg of the Daily Beast contacted us, we decided to dig deeper. Wayne came up with the idea of going undercover but was too well known to do it himself, so I was asked. The goal was to document with 100 percent certainty whether Bachmann & Associates practiced “ex-gay therapy.”  Information about the sting was kept quiet until it hit the national media.  My account of the experience can be found here. [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - TWO’s John Becker Profiled in Rage Magazine — September 15, 2011 @ 9:53 am

  373. [...] The goal was to document with 100 percent certainty whether Bachmann & Associates practiced “ex-gay therapy.”  Information about the sting was kept quiet until it hit the national media.  My account of the experience can be found at: http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/07/17519/ [...]

    Pingback by AN INTERVIEW WITH JOHN BECKER ON THE ‘TRUTH WINS OUT’ ORGANIZATION : Rage Monthly Magazine — September 15, 2011 @ 9:16 pm

  374. This “hit job” is so lame that even must homos dont buy it they just pretend they do. Every homo that is cured is a slap in the face to the “born this way” baloney and you know it.

    Comment by Pete — September 18, 2011 @ 10:14 am

  375. While we’re on the subject of baloney, I never saw you post or link any evidence of anyone being cured. However there are actual reports of people coming out of those toxic pseudo-clinics with actual mental damage, even driven to suicide.

    But do keep thinking that we’re over here quaking in our boots over crackpot methods of attempting to change people’s sexuality. It’ll make your tantrum that much more entertaining when the GLBT community acquires full human rights, those rights that inhuman creatures such as yourself tried to deny them.

    Comment by Hal T. — September 18, 2011 @ 10:42 am

  376. Pete, the “exgay” industry has never “cured” any gay, they merely set such people to war with who they are.

    Comment by Priya Lynn — September 18, 2011 @ 12:00 pm

  377. @ Pete #374:

    “Every homo that is cured is a slap in the face to the “born this way” baloney and you know it.”

    Whether or not people are born gay, or born straight for that matter, is an entirely separate question and one to which we still don’t know the answer.

    Whatever, homosexuality doesn’t need curing, since it’s not a disease or defect any more than heterosexuality is. “Therapies” that purport to “cure” homosexuality are useless; that’s the good news. The bad news is that they are not infrequently harmful.

    Comment by William — September 18, 2011 @ 12:02 pm

  378. Pete, where are all these “ex-gay” people who are “slaps in the faces”? I am only aware of a few who all seem to work for the ex-gay industry and are pretty sketchy themselves.

    Comment by Daniel — September 18, 2011 @ 1:23 pm

  379. Pete is just a plan from Exodus. Ignore it.

    Comment by jnsm — September 18, 2011 @ 8:33 pm

  380. *plant

    Comment by jnsm — September 18, 2011 @ 8:34 pm

  381. health clinic…

    Whenever I tried to health clinic, I failed. Your article gave me faith that I can do it….

    Trackback by health clinic — September 22, 2011 @ 9:10 am

  382. [...] Perry, which is hard. But they prove it’s not impossible. Bachmann, whose husband tries to cure gays by subjecting them to endless mashups of The Brady Bunch with Kirk Cameron’s face pasted over [...]

    Pingback by The right wing’s favorite virus: The real scandal behind the HPV story | a paper bird — October 9, 2011 @ 1:27 am

  383. [...] little hope of winning the nomination. You would be better off helping your husband’s clients “pray the gay away” since that act is about as possible as you winning the [...]

    Pingback by An Open Letter to the 2012 Republican Presidential Also-Rans | Karl Frisch — October 19, 2011 @ 12:42 am

  384. [...] little hope of winning the nomination. You would be better off helping your husband’s clients “pray the gay away” since that act is about as possible as you winning the [...]

    Pingback by An Open Letter to the 2012 Republican Presidential Also-Rans « News Hub Today — October 19, 2011 @ 12:00 pm

  385. [...] the face of the overwhelming medical and scientific evidence to the contrary, to be able to “pray away the gay.” Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry are both enthusiastic supporters of the American Family [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Herman Cain Blocks Ears, Closes Eyes, Embraces “Ex-Gay” Lies — October 20, 2011 @ 11:21 am

  386. [...] Your Gay Away Posted on October 24, 2011 by Fec From John M. Becker at Truth Wins Out, in July: Interestingly, this exchange was the only time during all of my sessions at Bachmann [...]

    Pingback by Pray Your Gay Away « Vie de Malchance: Part Deux — October 24, 2011 @ 7:50 pm

  387. [...] in no-show fees from two “pray away the gay” appointments I missed after going through five such sessions with a therapist at his clinic back in [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - So Marcus Bachmann Called Yesterday… — November 15, 2011 @ 1:58 pm

  388. [...] who works with Truth Wins Out, a group dedicated to combating these therapies, accounted his undercover treatment last July: I was told that whenever I saw an attractive woman I just needed to reinforce in my mind [...]

    Pingback by Marcus Bachmann Bills Reporter Who Outed Ex-Gay Clinics (Audio) | Death and Taxes — November 15, 2011 @ 3:33 pm

  389. [...] July, Truth Wins Out went undercover and exposed that Bachmann & Associates practices a form of discredited “pray away the gay” [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Marcus Bachmann Personally Calls and Harasses LGBT Group That Exposed His ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy Practice — November 16, 2011 @ 1:37 pm

  390. [...] news stories of 2011. Pay special attention to numbers 10 and 18 (Tracy Morgan’s rant and the Bachmann clinic scandal) — Truth Wins Out broke both of [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Two of The Advocate’s Top News Stories of 2011 Broken by TWO — November 20, 2011 @ 11:08 am

  391. [...] as the GOP presidential primary is so vividly reminding us, much work remains to be done in the struggle for LGBT equality. Of course, the usual [...]

    Pingback by John Becker: He’s My Husband, Thank You Very Much — December 2, 2011 @ 2:24 am

  392. [...] as the GOP presidential primary is so vividly reminding us, much work remains to be done in the struggle for LGBT equality. Of course, the usual [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - He’s My Husband, Thank You Very Much — December 2, 2011 @ 9:56 am

  393. [...] “Truth Wins Out” Exposes Bachmann Clinic [...]

    Pingback by A Gay Year Review 2011 « Badge Society News — December 11, 2011 @ 2:37 am

  394. http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/23697.htm

    Comment by Amy — December 11, 2011 @ 11:10 pm

  395. [...] first day of Christmas my true love gave to me, one wild-eyed Iowa straw poll winner. From the “pray the gay away” clinic Michele Bachmann runs with her extremely masculine husband Marcus, to her gaffes-a-plenty [...]

    Pingback by This Holiday, The Twelve Republican Days of Christmas | Karl Frisch — December 13, 2011 @ 3:17 pm

  396. Keep in mind here you are the dishonest one so anything you supposedly “learned” here is invalid and suspect. As you lied to the people in the clinic so how do we not know you lied about the whole experience. You invalidate yourself, especially since you state you are an “avowed homosexual activist”. So,the entire story is unreliable and invalid. However, there is something you should consider:homosexuality is a behavior not a race,and whether you like it or not, there is , and always will be a moral question associated with the behavior. No matter if you think it moral or immoral there is a moral question associated with it. We cannot therefore declare any form of behavioral group as a true “minority” since ,for characteristics such as race, creed, etc. there is no moral question. In addition, whether you believe it or not, behaviors can change, and true minority status is something that cannot change. Also if we begin to classify any sexual behavioral group as a class of people or a minority group then which group is next 25 years down the road? Will we be declaring pedophiles as a minority, BDSM practtitioners, other so called “orientations”? I think you guys should stop hijacking the civil rights movement and realize you are NOT a minority or even a class of people so all the semantics about “hatred”, gay bashing, discrimination, and all that is invalid in relation to anyone trying to reach that status based on sexual behavior alone. You just need to accept the fact that , even if you are born with a certain tendency that doesn’t make it okay. As a heterosexual male I was born with a natural tendency to have sex with multiple women. Does that make it okay? No. So, the “I was born that way” argument doesn’t hold water or make anything okay from a moral standpoint. I am sure that any intelligent person will see this stunt as utterly ridiculous and invalid. Too bad you missed a chance to really find help as well. In addition I feel anyone who criticizes someone, or calls them a a”hater” based on the fact that they have a religious faith is a basher of the utmost.

    Comment by greg moore — January 18, 2012 @ 1:10 am

  397. Sorry Greg, you lose.
    1) undercover reporting is a time honored way of showing corruption, and in this case, discredited medical practice. YES, discredited. Go ask anyone not on the freaky fringe of the medical/psychological community
    2) you mentioned race and creed…people change creed ALL the time. I know a lot of former of Christians who are now Muslims, and former Jews who are Christians. I have NEVER met a former gay man or former lesbian. I have met a few sad lonely people who are tyring to live sexless lives (usually failing) who have my pity, but I have never met an “ex gay”. As so many former spokespersons for “ex gay” “ministries” have pointed out when they leave the brainwashing farm, it never works
    3) The Secretary of State just put the most vicious, backward and uneducated nations on the planet on notice that, oh yes, gay rights IS a civil rights issue. You may not like reality, but, reality is what it is.
    4) why are you so sure that having sex with multiple women is not ok, if you want to, they want to, and no one is hurt? Now, if you WANT to follow a moral code/faith that says it is not ok, great. I would actually agree with you. But you dont get to set a blanket statement for everyone. Not in American. Not in any free country. Not anymore. Never again.
    5) Intelligent people saw this “stunt” as you call it, as one of the things that dirailed his dingbat wife in her quest for a nomination, and put him on notice that his discredited medical practices are out of line.
    6) Hatred based on ones religious convictions is called….hatred. Osama Bin Ladin hated gay people because we are gay. It was HATRED, based on his RELIGIOUS views. EXACTLY like YOUR hatred of us is based on YOUR religious views. You are, thus, a hater.
    7) you sound like you might belong to one of the inferior and less educated denominations of Christianity. You need to raise your standards. Look for a Evangelical Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, United Church of Christ, or other open and welcoming congregation of one of the centuries old denominaitons with the best scholarship and understanding of the Bible.

    Your life, and your morality, and your status as a decent human being will be greatly improved by doing so.

    Good luck to you Greg Moore.

    Oh, and by the way, the days when people like you get to lecture to us and not get put firmly in your place for doing so…LONG, LONG over.

    Bye!
    :)

    Comment by Gene — January 18, 2012 @ 9:29 am

  398. You know, it’s interesting that ‘religious’ folks responding to this story go on and on and ON about ‘morality’ while willfully ignoring Marcus Bachmann’s lack of said ‘morality’ in pushing a discredited and dangerous junk science FOR MONEY, while denying he did any such thing.

    Comment by Ozymandias71 — January 18, 2012 @ 11:00 am

  399. Wow Gene, Well done!

    Comment by Daniel — January 18, 2012 @ 12:00 pm

  400. Thank you Daniel. I stopped taking shit from badly educated bigots some time ago. The thing they hate worst…that even scares them, is when you just stair em’ down, lay out the facts, and point out that THEY, not US, are the ones who need a moral/historical/religious/ethical talking to, and if they dont believe me, go write what they write here on the buliten board at work and see not only what HR has to say, but just sit and wonder why decent people with GLBT loved ones and friends don’t want to let them sit with them at lunch anymore.

    But mainly, one point out that they have just devolved into a bunch of…WHINERS! “Wha, wha, wha…I’m being called a bigot because I am acting like a bigot but thats ok because my flawed version of religion/world view says I can be bigoted so you can’t call me that! :( Whiiiinnnneeee”

    One thing about the homophobic right wing…they have become the one thing I had not expected…whiny, victim playing, losers.

    If I did not loath them so much, I could feel sorry for them….almost

    Comment by Gene — January 18, 2012 @ 12:24 pm

  401. [...] Chief Investigative Correspondent (and the journalist who broke the story of Truth Wins Out’s undercover hidden-camera investigation of the Bachmann clinic on national television), scored an interview with Marianne Gingrich, [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Newt Gingrich “Family Values” Bombshell — January 19, 2012 @ 11:43 am

  402. [...] has ties to harmful “pray the gay away” treatments via her husband’s clinic and to the Ugandan “Kill the Gays” bill via staff member [...]

    Pingback by MediaExperts.Net » Is Cuba Outpacing the US in GLBT Rights? — January 21, 2012 @ 8:57 pm

  403. [...] take care to remember who our real enemies are. It shouldn’t be too hard; there are plenty of them. Instead of directing our frustration and anger inwards at obviously supportive and well-meaning [...]

    Pingback by Truth Wins Out - Dan Savage and the Circular Firing Squad — January 24, 2012 @ 4:16 pm

  404. You can go on about “equality” all you want but you will NOT convince regenerated Christians who know God’s Truth.

    Homosexuality is SIN and it is NOT an equal orientation, and NEVER will be.

    All the social pressure, laws and pro-gay psychology in the world ain’t changing the mind of our Creator.

    Comment by EA — February 3, 2012 @ 8:27 pm

  405. EA,
    I do believe that god doesn’t share whom he hates with you. Get over yourself. The bible says some things about hate.

    Comment by Emma — February 3, 2012 @ 8:44 pm

  406. EA

    Then please start an effective ex-gay ministry.

    Alan Chambers, the president of Exodus, the current leading ex-gay Christian ministry, said last year that despite being married to a woman AND being a Christian, he still fights his same-sex attractions every day. He also said recently that out of all the ex-gays and ex-lesbians he has met, MAYBE 1 out of a thousand has completely lost her/his same sex attractions.

    Would you let your daughter marry an ex-gay man, EA? Why can’t Exodus find someone who is COMPLETELY “cured” to run their ministry?

    Comment by PhilipJ — February 3, 2012 @ 8:50 pm

  407. EA, I’ll hold the opinion of your god in higher regard once he does something about his followers attacking children, among other crimes.

    …or at the very least, does something a little more god-like than rabble rousing.

    Comment by Aulton — February 3, 2012 @ 8:50 pm

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